Kilman keep or sell?

[SmokeyGB]

I've put sell, but only at £50m
That along with Neto money would give the club so much space on FFP we could be good for at least 2/3 ,years rebuilding.

That's what Fosun want, so might happen.

 

[Mugwump]

See this doesn't make sense to me.....if kilman is bang average then how are we going to get a bid north of 40/45m.......that would make him one of the top 20 highest transfer fees for a centre back ever....it's nonsense....

We would get the money basically because he is English. I'd we were buying a similar player of similar ability from France we wouldn't be paying anywhere near what Kilman will cost.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

If 40 million was on the table it would be ridiculous not to sell. He isn't even worth 30 million. Decent player but nothing beyond that and he certainly isn't captain material.

 

[Aimless Balls]

Toti, Santi and Yerson theoretically is interesting, and I could feel much worse about them as a potential future trio, but at the minute £40m for Max is not tempting. If he were to get an England call-up at some point and a big club made a crazy bid for him that would be another thing but £40m, no.

 

[lets all have a disco]

We would get the money basically because he is English. I'd we were buying a similar player of similar ability from France we wouldn't be paying anywhere near what Kilman will cost.

But if he was bang average like quoted surely he would be only worth 15m.......not going for a near record fee for a wolves player , a fee that is massive for a centre back.....so he can't be bang average....as I say it doesn't make sense....

Only 12 centre backs have gone for more than 45m in the history of the game....that would put him in an elite band not a bang average band...

He is crap but we want top dollar....bizarre.....if he is good enough to command a top fee surely he is good enough for us......

 

[Wolf316]

This thread is insane, please just close it. Do you guys realise how valuable a left footed CB like Kilman is? He's a fantastic player.

Under the Fosun model selling Max for top dollar is exactly what we should be doing.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

But if he was bang average like quoted surely he would be only worth 15m.......not going for a near record fee for a wolves player , a fee that is massive for a centre back.....so he can't be bang average....as I say it doesn't make sense....

Only 12 centre backs have gone for more than 45m in the history of the game....that would put him in an elite band not a bang average band...

He is crap but we want top dollar....bizarre.....if he is good enough to command a top fee surely he is good enough for us......

English tax Maguire was 80m

 

[DJLWolf]

He's a proven premier league quality defender and a good one at that.He knows and understands ths club inside out and provides stability for us in the ever changing environment that football creates.

I wouldn't sell unless a gigantic offer comes in and 40 million isn't 'gigantic' in this day and age.

I suspect that Kilman would be one of those players that is harder to replace than many fans realise and if he went on to a more successful club he would look a considerably better player than he does currently.

 

[DanishWolf]

He's a good defender who can also contribute going forward due to his excellent technical ability. He's not perfect, but he'd be very difficult to replace.

 

[wolvesjoe]

He's a good defender who can also contribute going forward due to his excellent technical ability. He's not perfect, but he'd be very difficult to replace.

Its a very silly thread in my view. We are trying to build something, not destroy it.

 

[Flea]

Kilman just works when having daddy around.He is permanent second fiddle.First to Coady and now to Daws.
Was an absolute car crash when paired with Collins.
Sorry,I think that Max is very replaceable and it should be a priority of ours to strenghten here this upcoming summer as Daws is getting on a bit and Max doesn´t cope on his own.

 

[lets all have a disco]

English tax Maguire was 80m

You can't be bang average and go for 45m just cause you are English....it's waffle.....why did we get 5m for Coady.

If kilman is worth a 45m fee from a top 6 team he must be good enough for us surely...

We are here again....same as wanting 30m for Sa...

 

[Aurum Lupus]

I doubt there's many that actually WANT Kilman sold. But some are more pragmatic about todays current financial restrictions and accept we need to trade players to allow us to keep investing in the team.

One of the biggest benefits if Kilman was sold is the fact he's effectively home grown. I know he cost £200k, but that was 6 years ago, so it's been written off and let's be honest is chump change! If he goes for £40m that's pure profit, which would massively help our FFP calculations for that year.

So while you could argue, you won't get a ready made replacement for £20m, I disagree. Not one of our current CBs cost anywhere near that and we've got 3 of them! Plus Bueno and Mosquera as potential replacements, who didn't cost anywhere near that either.

I accept it means we need great scouting now, but in reality that's always been the case, and we seem to be doing this well atm too.

 

[lets all have a disco]

I doubt there's many that actually WANT Kilman sold. But some are more pragmatic about todays current financial restrictions and accept we need to trade players to allow us to keep investing in the team.

One of the biggest benefits if Kilman was sold is the fact he's effectively home grown. I know he cost £200k, but that was 6 years ago, so it's been written off and let's be honest is chump change! If he goes for £40m that's pure profit, which would massively help our FFP calculations for that year.

So while you could argue, you won't get a ready made replacement for £20m, I disagree. Not one of our current CBs cost anywhere near that and we've got 3 of them! Plus Bueno and Mosquera as potential replacements, who didn't cost anywhere near that either.

I accept it means we need great scouting now, but in reality that's always been the case, and we seem to be doing this well atm too.

We all get that... obviously if a massive offer came in , it's something the club would have to consider...

I think kilman is in the core group of players at the club , similar to SA , Semedo , lemina , Dawson , toti who have shown for 12/14 months with two managers that they are perfectly capable at this level to play for us and get us , with the addition of a few stars in and around the mix for 7th to 12th...which is probably our ceiling....

Whist we get the FFP issues dismantling that core group could affect us as obviously going forward we will lose a few stars....ie ya Neto Cunha Rayan Gomes type players.....surely we will be in a position in the summer with say Neto going to build on our core group of 12/13 and not make it more difficult for ourselves by dismantling everything....we need to build on it to remain a comfortable 7th to 12th...as we will lose stars...

Surely we should be able to raise funds from the endless loan players we have out on loan and some of the unsure in the current squad before we start on the core group...that's all ...

We won't keep a Neto by selling a kilman....

 

[Clipboard]

We all get that... obviously if a massive offer came in , it's something the club would have to consider...

I think kilman is in the core group of players at the club , similar to SA , Semedo , lemina , Dawson , toti who have shown for 12/14 months with two managers that they are perfectly capable at this level to play for us and get us , with the addition of a few stars in and around the mix for 7th to 12th...which is probably our ceiling....

Whist we get the FFP issues dismantling that core group could affect us as obviously going forward we will lose a few stars....ie ya Neto Cunha Rayan Gomes players.....surely we will be in a position in the summer with say Neto going to build on our core group of 12/13 and not make it more difficult for ourselves by dismantling everything....we need to build on it to remain a comfortable 7th to 12th...as we will lose stars...

Surely we should be able to raise funds from the endless loan players we have out on loan and some of the unsure in the current squad before we start on the core group...that's all ...

Great post.

 

[sc91]

If 40 million was on the table it would be ridiculous not to sell. He isn't even worth 30 million. Decent player but nothing beyond that and he certainly isn't captain material.

He isn't a shouty man so isn't captain material is such a load of horse****.

 

[sc91]

Under the Fosun model selling Max for top dollar is exactly what we should be doing.

You only sell for insane money, 40mil is not insane.

 

[Aurum Lupus]

We all get that... obviously if a massive offer came in , it's something the club would have to consider...

I think kilman is in the core group of players at the club , similar to SA , Semedo , lemina , Dawson , toti who have shown for 12/14 months with two managers that they are perfectly capable at this level to play for us and get us , with the addition of a few stars in and around the mix for 7th to 12th...which is probably our ceiling....

Whist we get the FFP issues dismantling that core group could affect us as obviously going forward we will lose a few stars....ie ya Neto Cunha Rayan Gomes players.....surely we will be in a position in the summer with say Neto going to build on our core group of 12/13 and not make it more difficult for ourselves by dismantling everything....we need to build on it to remain a comfortable 7th to 12th...as we will lose stars...

Surely we should be able to raise funds from the endless loan players we have out on loan and some of the unsure in the current squad before we start on the core group...that's all ...

We won't keep a Neto by selling a kilman....

Ok, what would you say is a massive number?

I agree he's in the core group of players, but in reality, the younger players in that group are the ones we'd be likely to get the best return on. Neto going would obviously be a major help, but if you had to choose and both have similar financial benefits, which would you chose? For me I'd keep Neto another 12 months and cash in on Max. I'd only call it "dismantling" if we're selling 3/4+, which so long as we don't get ourselves in to Everton/Forest's situation shouldn't need to happen.

The loan players can effectively be broken in to 3 groups. Youth to sell for the academies finances, youth to develop and bring in to the team and those deemed surplus to requirements.

The first group won't make a significant impact financially if sold, the 2nd we don't want to sell and the 3rd teams know we dont want, so won't get decent bids for. In reality we just want them off the wage bill.

If we look at the 3rd group it's Silva(£35m), Podence(£17m) Guedes(£27m) and Kaladjzic(£15m). Ignoring the argument we overpaid for them, as that's in the past, none of them are going to be sold for a profit. So wouldn't have any real impact on FFP for us. Sasa I'm doubting now will even play again! So this group isn't going to help our finances.

 

[North West Wanderer]

Every player has their price self sustainability and ffp come first these days

absolutely this.

 

[North West Wanderer]

I doubt there's many that actually WANT Kilman sold. But some are more pragmatic about todays current financial restrictions and accept we need to trade players to allow us to keep investing in the team.

One of the biggest benefits if Kilman was sold is the fact he's effectively home grown. I know he cost £200k, but that was 6 years ago, so it's been written off and let's be honest is chump change! If he goes for £40m that's pure profit, which would massively help our FFP calculations for that year.

So while you could argue, you won't get a ready made replacement for £20m, I disagree. Not one of our current CBs cost anywhere near that and we've got 3 of them! Plus Bueno and Mosquera as potential replacements, who didn't cost anywhere near that either.

I accept it means we need great scouting now, but in reality that's always been the case, and we seem to be doing this well atm too.

exactly this, he’s a good player for sure, but he’s also up for sale for the right price.

 

[Stafford]

I think he's generally underrated as a defender, as alot of what he does good he does it with such ease. He has good pace and reads the game well. Intercepting a pass is alot less crowd pleasing than last ditch crunching tackles and clearances off the line.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Ok, what would you say is a massive number?

I agree he's in the core group of players, but in reality, the younger players in that group are the ones we'd be likely to get the best return on. Neto going would obviously be a major help, but if you had to choose and both have similar financial benefits, which would you chose? For me I'd keep Neto another 12 months and cash in on Max. I'd only call it "dismantling" if we're selling 3/4+, which so long as we don't get ourselves in to Everton/Forest's situation shouldn't need to happen.

The loan players can effectively be broken in to 3 groups. Youth to sell for the academies finances, youth to develop and bring in to the team and those deemed surplus to requirements.

The first group won't make a significant impact financially if sold, the 2nd we don't want to sell and the 3rd teams know we dont want, so won't get decent bids for. In reality we just want them off the wage bill.

If we look at the 3rd group it's Silva(£35m), Podence(£17m) Guedes(£27m) and Kaladjzic(£15m). Ignoring the argument we overpaid for them, as that's in the past, none of them are going to be sold for a profit. So wouldn't have any real impact on FFP for us. Sasa I'm doubting now will even play again! So this group isn't going to help our finances.

You won't stop Neto leaving......once the big team comes in for him he will be off....... which will be this summer..

So you will be without Neto and Max if you wanna sell him....

 

[Aurum Lupus]

You won't stop Neto leaving......once the big team comes in for him he will be off....... which will be this summer..

So you will be without Neto and Max if you wanna sell him....

If we qualify for Europe we have a slight hope of keeping him one more year, but I agree he'll be gone in the summer in all likelihood.

I also couldn't have been clearer in my first post. I dont WANT to sell Max, I don't WANT to sell any of our better players. But that's just not realistic. We need to expect 1 or 2 to go per year. The important aspect is that they are financially beneficial to us, which both Neto and Max would be.

 

[lets all have a disco]

If we qualify for Europe we have a slight hope of keeping him one more year, but I agree he'll be gone in the summer in all likelihood.

I also couldn't have been clearer in my first post. I dont WANT to sell Max, I don't WANT to sell any of our better players. But that's just not realistic. We need to expect 1 or 2 to go per year. The important aspect is that they are financially beneficial to us, which both Neto and Max would be.

We have no hope of keeping Neto.... conference league won't keep him ...if he remains injury free he will go...

I get how FFP works etc ..and what we will need to do each summer....but I wouldn't think selling Max and Neto is essential for FFP this summer....I would expect a few outs etc in the summer to help funds players.....I wouldn't rule out Santiago Bueno, Hugo Bueno or even Yerson leaving......so anything is possible...I think Gary O'Neil will want the majority of his main stays staying including Max.....that's all I'm saying...

Can see Hwang going before Max....if we HAVE to sell 2 of our best players every summer we might as well give up....granted we can choose to....but last summer wasn't the new normal....

 

[AndyY]

Notwithstanding the fact tgat we have to sell to buy, and be self sufficient, which i get, i think it depends on what happens with Dawson next season. He is not getting any younger and idealy he would be the back up/ squad player.
If that's the case i suggest we dont want to change 2 out of 3 CBs, leaving Toti as most experienced.
Therefore i suggest we keep Kilman for one more season and hopefully bring Santi or Mosquero (or new) through.

 

[Aurum Lupus]

We have no hope of keeping Neto.... conference league won't keep him ...if he remains injury free he will go...

I get how FFP works etc ..and what we will need to do each summer....but I wouldn't think selling Max and Neto is essential for FFP this summer....I would expect a few outs etc in the summer to help funds players.....I wouldn't rule out Santiago Bueno, Hugo Bueno or even Yerson leaving......so anything is possible...I think Gary O'Neil will want the majority of his main stays staying including Max.....that's all I'm saying...

Can see Hwang going before Max....if we HAVE to sell 2 of our best players every summer we might as well give up....granted we can choose to....but last summer wasn't the new normal....

I know I'm clinging to straws with the Europe comment You're right Neto will be gone this summer.

Out of the 3 you mention I could possibly see Hugo going, especially if RAN is staying for another year. He needs to be playing, although I'd prefer to extend his contract and loan him out, as RAN will be snapped up in the next 12/24 months and while not as attack minded, Bueno would not be a disastrous replacement. From all accounts Mosquera is very highly rated, so I would hope he is bought in to the squad next year. Santi could possibly go, but he's not going to have a positive financial impact if he does. I'm sure Gary doesn't want to lose any of his best players , no manager does.

Hwang needs to prove that wasn't a purple patch he was in before the Asia Cup before we get any tempting offers to sell him. If he does then you could be right.

I think what you seem to be missing is, it's not just us that HAVE to trade, it's all teams. So it's not the end of the world.

 

[lets all have a disco]

I know I'm clinging to straws with the Europe comment You're right Neto will be gone this summer.

Out of the 3 you mention I could possibly see Hugo going, especially if RAN is staying for another year. He needs to be playing, although I'd prefer to extend his contract and loan him out, as RAN will be snapped up in the next 12/24 months and while not as attack minded, Bueno would not be a disastrous replacement. From all accounts Mosquera is very highly rated, so I would hope he is bought in to the squad next year. Santi could possibly go, but he's not going to have a positive financial impact if he does. I'm sure Gary doesn't want to lose any of his best players , no manager does.

Hwang needs to prove that wasn't a purple patch he was in before the Asia Cup before we get any tempting offers to sell him. If he does then you could be right.

I think what you seem to be missing is, it's not just us that HAVE to trade, it's all teams. So it's not the end of the world.

Yes I've got no problem with the FFP argument for kilman ....the reason I started getting involved in the thread because people were saying he was bang average but wanted a massive fee for him....which I found a bizarre contradiction....that's all.....granted if Neto got injured and didn't leave kilman would be an obvious candidate, not cause he is bang average but because he would get interest...

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

You can't be bang average and go for 45m just cause you are English....it's waffle.....why did we get 5m for Coady.

If kilman is worth a 45m fee from a top 6 team he must be good enough for us surely...

We are here again....same as wanting 30m for Sa...

Media said 30m for sa it never happened. If someone wants Kilman they will pay the asking price

The reason for the thread was to see how many people rate him because Iv heard some sing his praises some say he’s not a top class defender so good consensus on here rate him which is good for Wolves really isn’t it especially when we do come to selling him whether it be here and now this summer or one or two years down the line. FFP and Sustainability and self sufficient means we have to consider these options of high assets unfortunately

 

[Dingle Chris]

Its a very silly thread in my view. We are trying to build something, not destroy it.

Agreed, we may well lose Neto and if that’s the case I wouldn’t want to change too much more. Get rid of Guedes and Podence and go again.

 

[Dingle Chris]

Its a very silly thread in my view. We are trying to build something, not destroy it.

Agreed, we may well lose Neto and if that’s the case I wouldn’t want to change too much more. Get rid of Guedes and Podence and go again.

 

[Skrilla]

If 40 million was on the table it would be ridiculous not to sell. He isn't even worth 30 million. Decent player but nothing beyond that and he certainly isn't captain material.

£20 million for Hwang (if he scores another 10 goals this season) and Kilman is worth similar.

Blimey, I’m glad it’s Hobbs in charge of our transfers and not you!

 

[CelebrityWolf]

It is amazing we are only ninth when all our players seem to be at least 40-50 million isn't it.

 

[Aurum Lupus]

It is amazing we are only ninth when all our players seem to be at least 40-50 million isn't it

£40/50m is hardly a yardstick of quality! Plus absolutely no one has said all our players are worth that much, so stop making stuff up! Neto, Cunha, and Kilman(because the English tax) probably are. RAN and Gomes might be. That's the kind of numbers you'd expect from a team in 9th place...

 

[Krispy Kreme]

Don’t know anyone who wants to sell him .

You haven't paid enough attention to this forum then.

 

[tonto]

Toti, Santi and Yerson theoretically is interesting, and I could feel much worse about them as a potential future trio, but at the minute £40m for Max is not tempting. If he were to get an England call-up at some point and a big club made a crazy bid for him that would be another thing but £40m, no.

£40m just half a Harry Mcguire

 

[tonto]

It is amazing we are only ninth when all our players seem to be at least 40-50 million isn't it.

What about Chelsea

 

[brianm]

People have no feel for the market if they think Kilman is worth 40m plus imo. I don't care that he's English: he doesn't have elite pace, and he's nowhere near consistent enough as a defender for that kind of valuation. None of the clubs who will pay that much for a defender are going to be paying for him.

Man City? No.
Liverpool? No.
Arsenal? No.
Man United? No.
Spurs? Very doubtful, and they ain't paying that anyway.
Chelsea? He's too old.
Newcastle? Man, that sounds doubtful. Probably the most likely mentioned so far.

What are we talking about here?

I think as the team transitions from Dawson (whenever he's done, I think he's been good this season but he only has a year or two left at this level probably), they will want to have Max for continuity at a minimum, but longer term I do think it would be nice to have just a little more pace in the back. Kilman and Dawson is an artillery piece pairing that makes me feel great defending corners (and with their long passing, which is better than average) but nervous about the break. Utility man Toti has helped to make it work, but it's a setup that has limitations.

 

[sc91]

People have no feel for the market if they think Kilman is worth 40m plus imo. I don't care that he's English: he doesn't have elite pace, and he's nowhere near consistent enough as a defender for that kind of valuation. None of the clubs who will pay that much for a defender are going to be paying for him.

Man City? No.
Liverpool? No.
Arsenal? No.
Man United? No.
Spurs? Very doubtful, and they ain't paying that anyway.
Chelsea? He's too old.
Newcastle? Man, that sounds doubtful. Probably the most likely mentioned so far.

What are we talking about here?

I think as the team transitions from Dawson (whenever he's done, I think he's been good this season but he only has a year or two left at this level probably), they will want to have Max for continuity at a minimum, but longer term I do think it would be nice to have just a little more pace in the back. Kilman and Dawson is an artillery piece pairing that makes me feel great defending corners (and with their long passing, which is better than average) but nervous about the break. Utility man Toti has helped to make it work, but it's a setup that has limitations.

You dont care that he's English, but being an English CB is a huge part of his value, that's like having a four legged horse, chopping off one of the legs and then saying it's not got much value anymore.

 

[sc91]

Also I think he would actually fit quite well in any of United, Newcastle and Spurs. Maybe even Liverpool depending on which manager they get.

Even City that Kilman can pick a pass and is comfortable with the ball might well be of interest for someone like Pep who does like his CBs to have that string to their bow.

 

[Jawwfc]

Also I think he would actually fit quite well in any of United, Newcastle and Spurs. Maybe even Liverpool depending on which manager they get.

Even City that Kilman can pick a pass and is comfortable with the ball might well be of interest for someone like Pep who does like his CBs to have that string to their bow.

I think alot of people both Wolves fans and Non Wolves fans would rate Kilman higher if he was at West Ham, Spurs or a more fashionable club.

If Brighton had signed him for what we had then the media love in would be 10 fold and a lot of our fans would be asking why can't we find someone like that.

We have but together premier league quality centre halves for next to nothing in recent years. It's been our big money and big reputation centre halves who haven't been as good as we though Collins and Multiple Champions League winner Vallero.