Killing the Game

[derbyrameater]

A very accurate article of how the fans come bottom of the pile.

.."The time has come to address these issues — no more blatant time-wasting or fake injuries to stop the game. The fans deserve better.".

‘Cut out time-wasting this season - it’s killing the game’

PAUL DONOVAN expresses his frustrations with deliberate time wasting in the professional game, ahead of the new season

www.morningstaronline.co.uk

 

[wolvesaywe]

The most refreshing thing watching the women is there's zero histrionics and time wasting. The game is played like it was when I was a kid

The men could learn a lot from them

 

[bigwolf]

What a lazy article.

Not facts or evidence presented at all to support his claims and no credible solutions put forward.

Of all the things fans get shafted on this has to be near the bottom of the pile.

Utter garbage.

 

[OoohRobbieRobbie]

Thought this was an extension of the heading debate...

 

[wolvesjoe]

The most refreshing thing watching the women is there's zero histrionics and time wasting. The game is played like it was when I was a kid

The men could learn a lot from them

One could also add that much of the passing the ball around the defence has also become a form of time-wasting, reducing the amount of time the ball is in active play. Pressing high up the pitch has become an effective counter-tactic, but it is still a sorry spectacle, (Wolves quite guilty of this).

A major crackdown is definitely needed against the time-wasting.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

One could also add that much of the passing the ball around the defence has also become a form of time-wasting, reducing the amount of time the ball is in active play. Pressing high up the pitch has become an effective counter-tactic, but it is still a sorry spectacle, (Wolves quite guilty of this).

A major crackdown is definitely needed against the time-wasting.

I mean passing the ball around the back to start an attack vs booting the ball up field that goes out for a throw ? That is a very strange take imo.

Style of football is a million times improved from what I grew up watching, slow turgid long ball stuff for the most part but the time-wasting and injury faking is embarrassing. Maybe because I watched us and am bias but we are as bad as anyone for doing it.

 

[jackdusty]

The most refreshing thing watching the women is there's zero histrionics and time wasting. The game is played like it was when I was a kid

The men could learn a lot from them

Take it you didn't see England's penalty the other night, plus a few Grealish type dives in the France game last night. As the rewards get better in the women's game the cheating will be similar to the men's game.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Take it you didn't see England's penalty the other night, plus a few Grealish type dives in the France game last night. As the rewards get better in the women's game the cheating will be similar to the men's game.

Bingo

 

[old wittonian]

The most refreshing thing watching the women is there's zero histrionics and time wasting. The game is played like it was when I was a kid

The men could learn a lot from them

It's much the same in rugby. They actually pass the ball about.

 

[bilstonwolf]

What a lazy article.

Not facts or evidence presented at all to support his claims and no credible solutions put forward.

Of all the things fans get shafted on this has to be near the bottom of the pile.

Utter garbage.

I imagine it's difficult to find statistics on how many injuries are real and fake. I imagine most of us on here have played football at some level so we all know that a knock during a game is not an injury- the article is spot on in its detailing of players being needlessly treated due to weak refereeing. This could be solved by strictly enforcing the rule that the game shouldn't be stopped unless its a head injury as well as an agreement among all managers that their teams won't kick the ball out. What should also be tackled is the faking of head injuries, players should be suspended for at least 1 game if they get a game stopped for a head injury when a TV replay clearly shows there was no contact with the head. Fans I speak to (and I include myself among them) mostly feel quite strongly about this , as the article points out, it is ultimately us who are being cheated.

 

[derbyrameater]

What a lazy article.

Not facts or evidence presented at all to support his claims and no credible solutions put forward.

Of all the things fans get shafted on this has to be near the bottom of the pile.

Utter garbage.

What do your own eyes tell you when watching a game?

 

[manchesterwolf17]

A drop in the ocean compared to how much VAR is killing the enjoyment for paying fans.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

What a lazy article.

Not facts or evidence presented at all to support his claims and no credible solutions put forward.

Of all the things fans get shafted on this has to be near the bottom of the pile.

Utter garbage.

I disagree. OK, it may be light on statistics, the fact that the average time the ball is in play is down to c50 mins, but he does mention time wasting tactics that we all see every week.

Goalkeepers kicks, players feigning injury etc. And it's true, refs don't do enough to stop it.

What are the FA doing about it? Multi-ball. That's not going to solve the problem. We need someone to stop the clock.

As a fan I hate cheating and I want to see football being played. We are being short-changed. Its pretty high on my list of things that need improving.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

I imagine it's difficult to find statistics on how many injuries are real and fake. I imagine most of us on here have played football at some level so we all know that a knock during a game is not an injury- the article is spot on in its detailing of players being needlessly treated due to weak refereeing. This could be solved by strictly enforcing the rule that the game shouldn't be stopped unless its a head injury as well as an agreement among all managers that their teams won't kick the ball out. What should also be tackled is the faking of head injuries, players should be suspended for at least 1 game if they get a game stopped for a head injury when a TV replay clearly shows there was no contact with the head. Fans I speak to (and I include myself among them) mostly feel quite strongly about this , as the article points out, it is ultimately us who are being cheated.

Honestly struggling to remember one faked head injury I saw last year?

 

[Flump]

Honestly struggling to remember one faked head injury I saw last year?

It's not specifically head injuries, but it certainly looked like Southampton were very unlucky around the hour mark with normal injuries.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

It's not specifically head injuries, but it certainly looked like Southampton were very unlucky around the hour mark with normal injuries.

Well yeah, but that wasn't what I was responding too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349#:~:text=In%20this%20season's%20Premier%20League,see%20how%20each%20team%20performs.

Interesting data this, more ball in play over the last 10 years than the years preceding it. Not sure there is any reason to suspect that this number was any higher in the 80s/90s is there?

This year dropped to lowest in a decade but still higher than 15 years ago...

 

[Contrarian]

I disagree. OK, it may be light on statistics, the fact that the average time the ball is in play is down to c50 mins, but he does mention time wasting tactics that we all see every week.

Goalkeepers kicks, players feigning injury etc. And it's true, refs don't do enough to stop it.

What are the FA doing about it? Multi-ball. That's not going to solve the problem. We need someone to stop the clock.

As a fan I hate cheating and I want to see football being played. We are being short-changed. Its pretty high on my list of things that need improving.

The solution for time wasting is that simple. Scrap injury time, stop the clock when the ball is out of play and play two 40 minute halves.

I see time wasting and continual diving for penalties as the main player instigated problems in the game today. The penalty issue is trickier. TIFO had an interesting YT video on it. It's got beyond an annoyance to something ruining the game. The number of penalties is increasing while the number of goals in open play is decreasing (when you allow for the top few hammering the lower clubs). Often, players are going nowhere just inside the area, with defenders back covering, so it makes sense to "encourage" slight contact and collapse in a heap, this turning a nothing situation into a penalty. This one is harder to solve - make the penalty area slightly smaller, or an arc were suggested. Also take the penalty from where the foul was committed, not the penalty spot.

As it is , the current rules interpretations effectively encourage cheating in both time wasting and penalty winning

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

The solution for time wasting is that simple. Scrap injury time, stop the clock when the ball is out of play and play two 40 minute halves.

I see time wasting and continual diving for penalties as the main player instigated problems in the game today. The penalty issue is trickier. TIFO had an interesting YT video on it. It's got beyond an annoyance to something ruining the game. The number of penalties is increasing while the number of goals in open play is decreasing (when you allow for the top few hammering the lower clubs). Often, players are going nowhere just inside the area, with defenders back covering, so it makes sense to "encourage" slight contact and collapse in a heap, this turning a nothing situation into a penalty. This one is harder to solve - make the penalty area slightly smaller, or an arc were suggested. Also take the penalty from where the foul was committed, not the penalty spot.

As it is , the current rules interpretations effectively encourage cheating in both time wasting and penalty winning

The game would last 2 hours in that case, as there is no reason for players to not go down for a rest and to kill the tempo as they don't get time added on.

Don't think people are thinking about the unintended consequences.

As I demonstrated above, time in play higher over last decade than one preceeding it.

 

[Contrarian]

Honestly struggling to remember one faked head injury I saw last year?

There were 2 or 3 in our home match with Brentford. One of them didn't involve any contact at all. Jansen collapsed holding his head as a corner went in with nobody near him. Brentford were doing it all season....though not when they were losing. When they were losing, they whined about other clubs doing the same to them.

 

[Flump]

Well yeah, but that wasn't what I was responding too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349#:~:text=In%20this%20season's%20Premier%20League,see%20how%20each%20team%20performs.
Interesting data this, more ball in play over the last 10 years than the years preceding it. Not sure there is any reason to suspect that this number was any higher in the 80s/90s is there?

This year dropped to lowest in a decade but still higher than 15 years ago...

The first half of the post you responsed to was talking about general injuries!

Regarding the amount of time with the ball out of play, subjectively it feels like it increased a lot last year - although that might just be because it did more in Wolves matches.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

The first half of the post you responsed to was talking about general injuries!

Regarding the amount of time with the ball out of play, subjectively it feels like it increased a lot last year - although that might just be because it did more in Wolves matches.

Yeah last year was bad but that's only compared to how much better it's gotten. Tbh it's probably changed as to why. Used to be Kevin Davis fouling someone in the air and free kick taking 5 minutes as the prepared to launch it down field. Or Stoke prepared a long throw.

Is that any better?

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

I mean passing the ball around the back to start an attack vs booting the ball up field that goes out for a throw ? That is a very strange take imo.

Style of football is a million times improved from what I grew up watching, slow turgid long ball stuff for the most part but the time-wasting and injury faking is embarrassing. Maybe because I watched us and am bias but we are as bad as anyone for doing it.

Or retaining the ball, starving the opposition of any opportunity to get back in to a game.

Not my idea of time wasting. It's tactically astute and a joy to watch when done effectively, albeit frustrating as hell if you're on the receiving end.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

There were 2 or 3 in our home match with Brentford. One of them didn't involve any contact at all. Jansen collapsed holding his head as a corner went in with nobody near him. Brentford were doing it all season....though not when they were losing. When they were losing, they whined about other clubs doing the same to them.

And Wolves learned a valuable lesson v Brentford. We used those same tactics to (mostly) great effect in the proceeding weeks.

 

[lobodelsur]

As I demonstrated above, time in play higher over last decade than one preceeding it.

More clubs playing a possession based game rather than long-ball 'put-it-in-the mixer' stuff ?

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

More clubs playing a possession based game rather than long-ball 'put-it-in-the mixer' stuff ?

My suspicion

 

[derbyrameater]

Well yeah, but that wasn't what I was responding too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349#:~:text=In%20this%20season's%20Premier%20League,see%20how%20each%20team%20performs.

Interesting data this, more ball in play over the last 10 years than the years preceding it. Not sure there is any reason to suspect that this number was any higher in the 80s/90s is there?

This year dropped to lowest in a decade but still higher than 15 years ago...

55 mins is that something to be pleased with? all the years in the article are just a few minutes apart.

Loughborough university used to do time played stats and iirc very different to the BBC/opta ones, can't find it though.

 

[wolvesjoe]

Well yeah, but that wasn't what I was responding too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349#:~:text=In%20this%20season's%20Premier%20League,see%20how%20each%20team%20performs.

Interesting data this, more ball in play over the last 10 years than the years preceding it. Not sure there is any reason to suspect that this number was any higher in the 80s/90s is there?

This year dropped to lowest in a decade but still higher than 15 years ago...

Last season saw the widespread adoption of so-called high press, where defenders are harassed when they try to play keep ball at the back. No surprise that ball in play figures should begin to turn around as defenders are forced into more hurried clearances. This was a very clear feature of last season's league.

A positive development, I think. There is the beginning of a shift towards more risks and the advantages of attacking play. I predict an increase in goals scored for the coming season, hopefully including Wolves of course.

 

[Fifty Niner]

Rugby had a similar problem when the team in the lead with 10-15 mins to go would get the ball, run into the opponent, drop to the ground, recycle ball where the next chap would do the same. Getting the ball stuck in these mauls would prevent the opposition getting their hands on the ball. There was no intent to play. So now they are not allowed to do it. The referee will call 'use it' and they have to comply or be penalised. However, they still don't stop the clock when scrums are being set-up. Constant 're-sets' soon kill the minutes.

Professionals will always look for ways to gain an advantage to win a game. As long as the rules allow they will exploit. I know the referees add time on but this can be inconsistent. Easiest way is to use a clock that is stopped when subs are made, injured players are being treated and when the referee directs 'stop the clock'. The latter will be for time wasting, feigning injuries to gain an advantage or incessant arguing over a referees decision.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Last season saw the widespread adoption of so-called high press, where defenders are harassed when they try to play keep ball at the back. No surprise that ball in play figures should begin to turn around as defenders are forced into more hurried clearances. This was a very clear feature of last season's league.

A positive development, I think. There is the beginning of a shift towards more risks and the advantages of attacking play. I predict an increase in goals scored for the coming season, hopefully including Wolves of course.

Good point. With 5 subs players should be fresher as well. Although with 5 subs there is also more opportunity for tactical time wasting.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

55 mins is that something to be pleased with? all the years in the article are just a few minutes apart.

Loughborough university used to do time played stats and iirc very different to the BBC/opta ones, can't find it though.

I mean given it has been that way since the dawn of time? What do you propose, 90 minutes of ball in play? 3 hour games and players absolutely dead on their feet

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

I mean given it has been that way since the dawn of time? What do you propose, 90 minutes of ball in play? 3 hour games and players absolutely dead on their feet

No, but players lying down, a foot from the touchline in the opposition half, because they may have hurt their nose / finger, or something similar that does not affect mobility, or life, and the ball being kicked out of play at the other end of the pitch, so that he can have "treatment", would not happen in any other version of football, Rugby/R.League/American/Aussie rules etc and would also not have happened in our game until fairly recently. Certainly not since the dawn of time. Feigning some minor injury, just to break the momentum of an opposition play, should either be ignored, or incur punishment as a professional foul.
(Podence and Hwang both spring to mind as culprits!)

 

[Ned]

Well yeah, but that wasn't what I was responding too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349#:~:text=In%20this%20season's%20Premier%20League,see%20how%20each%20team%20performs.

Interesting data this, more ball in play over the last 10 years than the years preceding it. Not sure there is any reason to suspect that this number was any higher in the 80s/90s is there?

This year dropped to lowest in a decade but still higher than 15 years ago...

I think the ball would have been in play more in the 80’s/90’s up until the back pass rule was brought in.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

I think the ball would have been in play more in the 80’s/90’s up until the back pass rule was brought in.

Yeah good point, in the keepers arms anyway!

 

[bilstonwolf]

Honestly struggling to remember one faked head injury I saw last year?

I can't remember specifics but I seem to recall Arsenal players doing it, also getting fouls when they go down from a challenge holding their head when it hasn't been touched, even if this doesn't lead to treatment.

 

[Oldvic161]

Can we not allow physios on to treat those who go down faking injury and allow the game to go on? They’d soon rise to their feet if their team didn’t have the ball. VAR/ video ref could review any foul play plus issue yellow card if there is no contact.

 

[Fifty Niner]

I mean given it has been that way since the dawn of time? What do you propose, 90 minutes of ball in play? 3 hour games and players absolutely dead on their feet

Playing two stints of 45 minutes is not beyond young professionals?

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Playing two stints of 45 minutes is not beyond young professionals?

Increasing the length of the game by 40% more than it's ever been when they play more games than ever before? They aren't robots

 

[derbyrameater]

Increasing the length of the game by 40% more than it's ever been when they play more games than ever before? They aren't robots

The women seem to manage it, are they fitter than the men?

 

[Hot Fuss]

I can't remember specifics but I seem to recall Arsenal players doing it, also getting fouls when they go down from a challenge holding their head when it hasn't been touched, even if this doesn't lead to treatment.

Arsenal are bad. The big centre back (Gabriel?) loves lying on the floor pretending to be hurt when they are winning.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

The women seem to manage it, are they fitter than the men?

The women play 90 minutes of football? You got evidence the ball is in play more than the men's game?