Guanxi

[ShropshireLad]

They said they looked at numerous clubs why would they pick Wolves? they are an investment company they want a return on any investment they make... that depends on Wolves being successful.

How are Wolves going to move players in a **** league, they may have agents but they are still people they are only going to go to places that they think will improve their careers in the long term, maybe all of our targets didn't see the vision but nobody is coming to a club as a pawn they aren't completely stupid.

FOSUN don't need anything except to improve the club anything less will be seen as a failure on their part, especially to their president who they did this for, if they fail at Wolves it reflects badly on FOSUN and their president I wonder how that plays into china's long term ambitions of football domination

I wish I shared your idealism, Alex.

Look at the network picture and notice that Cavaleiro is part of it all. He's been moved around for their benefit from Benfica to Monaco (Euros15 mill) to us (£7 mill) irrespective of whether he's the right player for either club and he ain't worth £7 million by anyone's standards let alone £13 mill. It doesn't make sense from a footballing rationale. The movement of these players is not for our benefit as the Portuguese guy outlined to us in the post quoted above. We're caught up in a much bigger picture which FOSUN will use us as they want. They obviously would like us to be successful but that's more down to the cards turning correctly by chance than by design.

That's my opinion, anyway.

And another thing: there are some very dodgy names in that network who's tax details have been mentioned in the papers this weekend. I pray that the house of cards won't come tumbling down.

 

[ShropshireLad]

True, sadly. But some were Mendes-Costa, Tex, Cav-others presumably Thelwell-Gladon, Ola John, etc. And the takeover was late on. Surely we've got more to hope for with Fosun/Mendes than fear? At this stage anyway. We weren't that far off with Zenga. If we'd had Luisao and Talisca.....or even just avoided stupid defensive mistakes and had a proven no 9?

Even if we did enjoy some success in the future I'll remember the above article and think about the connections between the respective parts of the matrix and wonder whether we're being a "well run club." Those links make me feel very insecure about certain matters - the conclusions of which readers will need to draw for themselves.

 

[AlexWWFC]

I wish I shared your idealism, Alex.

Look at the network picture and notice that Cavaleiro is part of it all. He's been moved around for their benefit from Benfica to Monaco (Euros15 mill) to us (£7 mill) irrespective of whether he's the right player for either club and he ain't worth £7 million by anyone's standards let alone £13 mill. It doesn't make sense from a footballing rationale. The movement of these players is not for our benefit as the Portuguese guy outlined to us in the post quoted above. We're caught up in a much bigger picture which FOSUN will use us as they want. They obviously would like us to be successful but that's more down to the cards turning correctly by chance than by design.

That's my opinion, anyway.

And another thing: there are some very dodgy names in that network who's tax details have been mentioned in the papers this weekend. I pray that the house of cards won't come tumbling down.

Yes but hold on you can't just point to Cav and say well there you have it that's the proof, how did we get Costa? how do we have Saiss for chicken feed compared to what he's worth? how do we have even Bod who may have gone off the boil but cast your mind back for a million quid?

If we brought Cav for £7m, considering the players we have acquired I'd say in the first transfer window are worth way more than that and we got them for cheap... if you're suggesting otherwise your suggesting FOSUN are either being taken for a ride or are a part of the ride, that neglects the fact that FOSUN need us to be successful for their overall goal.

I don't agree that FOSUN are being taken for a ride by a company which they hold a big stake in... that doesn't play out to their or our benefit.

 

[Edgmond Wolf]

Yes but hold on you can't just point to Cav and say well there you have it that's the proof, how did we get Costa? how do we have Saiss for chicken feed compared to what he's worth? how do we have even Bod who may have gone off the boil but cast your mind back for a million quid?

If we brought Cav for £7m, considering the players we have acquired I'd say in the first transfer window are worth way more than that and we got them for cheap... if you're suggesting otherwise your suggesting FOSUN are either being taken for a ride or are a part of the ride, that neglects the fact that FOSUN need us to be successful for their overall goal.

I don't agree that FOSUN are being taken for a ride by a company which they hold a big stake in... that doesn't play out to their or our benefit.

Well said mate

 

[ShropshireLad]

Yes but hold on you can't just point to Cav and say well there you have it that's the proof, how did we get Costa? how do we have Saiss for chicken feed compared to what he's worth? how do we have even Bod who may have gone off the boil but cast your mind back for a million quid?

If we brought Cav for £7m, considering the players we have acquired I'd say in the first transfer window are worth way more than that and we got them for cheap... if you're suggesting otherwise your suggesting FOSUN are either being taken for a ride or are a part of the ride, that neglects the fact that FOSUN need us to be successful for their overall goal.

I don't agree that FOSUN are being taken for a ride by a company which they hold a big stake in... that doesn't play out to their or our benefit.

Think back to the Portuguese guy's post where he says players swap clubs for figures way above and way below their market value. It's done for their benefit for some reason and FOSUN own 20% of Gestifute. And as the O/P link says, it doesn't matter which division we're in as we're just a conduit for their players (of which there are a huge number).

Clearly it's better for FOSUN for us to be in the Prem but it isn't a necessity as we'll be a conduit for a different calibre of player.

I'm not getting up my **** about this but am expressing major fears that have been signalled from the beginning. I cross my fingers and hope for the best and if the best happens I cross my fingers that we're not going to become part of an unwanted investigation into the wider picture.

 

[ShropshireLad]

Well said mate

Well said me, mate, methinks, Edge.

 

[Deleted member 4099]

If Fosun are at it we'll sign a load more Mendes players in Jan. If Thelwell and Lambert get there way nothing to worry about peeps.

 

[AlexWWFC]

Think back to the Portuguese guy's post where he says players swap clubs for figures way above and way below their market value. It's done for their benefit for some reason and FOSUN own 20% of Gestifute. And as the O/P link says, it doesn't matter which division we're in as we're just a conduit for their players (of which there are a huge number).

Clearly it's better for FOSUN for us to be in the Prem but it isn't a necessity as we'll be a conduit for a different calibre of player.

I'm not getting up my **** about this but am expressing major fears that have been signalled from the beginning. I cross my fingers and hope for the best and if the best happens I cross my fingers that we're not going to become part of an unwanted investigation into the wider picture.

But you're taking away any logic as to why FOSUN would of invested in us in the first place, you're saying because FOSUN have a 20% investment in gestifute they brought us to help gestifute, that's ridiculous they brought us as an investment and to score political points.

Both of those things can only happen if we are succesfull not some dodgy club that passes players around for the benefit of others, for FOSUN to have any kind of interest in our club we have to be successful otherwise it's a waste of time for them.

 

[berwickwolf]

Think back to the Portuguese guy's post where he says players swap clubs for figures way above and way below their market value. It's done for their benefit for some reason and FOSUN own 20% of Gestifute. And as the O/P link says, it doesn't matter which division we're in as we're just a conduit for their players (of which there are a huge number).

Clearly it's better for FOSUN for us to be in the Prem but it isn't a necessity as we'll be a conduit for a different calibre of player.

I'm not getting up my **** about this but am expressing major fears that have been signalled from the beginning. I cross my fingers and hope for the best and if the best happens I cross my fingers that we're not going to become part of an unwanted investigation into the wider picture.

The Portuguese guy also said, though, that it evens out over time. Anyway, we'll see. I'm too old now after all these years as a Wolves fan not to hope it happens soon. That and a lottery ticket. Have bought Reans numbers. We're all Wolves, just that for a bit I'm going to believe the good times are coming back. And I saw them at Newcastle, and after all these years of not being able to go, that will keep me believing for a bit longer. Life, probably. For sure. The team, Zenga but, most importantly the fans, were awesome. So, Fosun and Mendes and for a while at least Lambert, get us back where we can have 30,000 in Molineux with the passion we have and with players like that which in the early 80s will entertain and show a commitment to win.

 

[Tony]

Pity we are in 20th. position in the table

 

[ShropshireLad]

Point 1 But you're taking away any logic as to why FOSUN would of invested in us in the first place, you're saying because FOSUN have a 20% investment in gestifute they brought us to help gestifute, that's ridiculous they brought us as an investment and to score political points.

Point 2 Both of those things can only happen if we are succesfull not some dodgy club that passes players around for the benefit of others, for FOSUN to have any kind of interest in our club we have to be successful otherwise it's a waste of time for them.

Point 1. I really am not, Alex. Obviously they hope that we will be successful - I must assume that. However, the movement of players is not just for footballing reasons (i.e. whether they're the right players for the right job for the right position for the right blend in the team). I see it from what I've now read (there are other items on this - one posted on here a few weeks ago) that they bought us as PART of an investment portfolio to enhance the movement of players for the benefit of the bigger picture.

Point 2 If they don't get us into the Prem we are still useful to them as a conduit for lesser players.

Let me make it absolutely clear that I'm not wanting to deliberately upset an apple cart and paint a drastic picture about Wolves because I want both them and FOSUN to come a cropper. I've posted enough evidence on here to demonstrate my thorough understanding of the history of the club and and outlined my positive experiences as a supporter for the last 55 years. I have no hidden agenda. However, I did have concerns from the outset about the appointment of Zenga and the use of Mendes (for which a couple or more of posters expressed their anger and called me a Boggie which was laughable). We went on a good run and I changed my view about Zenga (but maintained my suspicions about Mendez) and then I have to admit that I thought Zenga was a loose canon - which he obviously is. My current position is that the background to both FOSUN and Mendes are inextricably linked and they have some contacts in that matrix diagram which give me cause for concern. Nothing will convince me otherwise. Only this weekend we learned in the press about tax evasion of high profile members of the matrix and there was a suggestion that a third is being investigated. There are concerns about Monaco and there are concerns about Zenit. My concerns about Mendes will remain and I wonder about FOSUN.

 

[AlexWWFC]

Point 1. I really am not, Alex. Obviously they hope that we will be successful - I must assume that. However, the movement of players is not just for footballing reasons (i.e. whether they're the right players for the right job for the right position for the right blend in the team). I see it from what I've now read (there are other items on this - one posted on here a few weeks ago) that they bought us as PART of an investment portfolio to enhance the movement of players for the benefit of the bigger picture.

Point 2 If they don't get us into the Prem we are still useful to them as a conduit for lesser players.

Let me make it absolutely clear that I'm not wanting to deliberately upset an apple cart and paint a drastic picture about Wolves because I want both them and FOSUN to come a cropper. I've posted enough evidence on here to demonstrate my thorough understanding of the history of the club and and outlined my positive experiences as a supporter for the last 55 years. I have no hidden agenda. However, I did have concerns from the outset about the appointment of Zenga and the use of Mendes (for which a couple or more of posters expressed their anger and called me a Boggie which was laughable). We went on a good run and I changed my view about Zenga (but maintained my suspicions about Mendez) and then I have to admit that I thought Zenga was a loose canon - which he obviously is. My current position is that the background to both FOSUN and Mendes are inextricably linked and they have some contacts in that matrix diagram which give me cause for concern. Nothing will convince me otherwise. Only this weekend we learned in the press about tax evasion of high profile members of the matrix and there was a suggestion that a third is being investigated. There are concerns about Monaco and there are concerns about Zenit. My concerns about Mendes will remain and I wonder about FOSUN.

Yes but you're talking about FOSUNS investment portfolio as their entire company... In terms of football they have us and a 20% stake in Gestifute. You have not once addressed the issue that they brought us to score political points which is well known.

I don't know what bigger picture unless FOSUN buy a massive club shortly, they have nothing to gain by playing positive and negative with other clubs books, by your logic we over payed for Cav so we are due a £10m player for £3m I'll take that.

If they don't get us in the prem we are useless to them why would a company that big waste their time with a club like wolves when they could of brought a prem team? Another question you haven't answered

Seeing as I can't change your mind I'll appreciate your point of view and will admit it won't be plain sailing however I will say any slight set back like Zenga, shouldn't be taken as some conspiracy theory that FOSUN are out to ruin us for their own interest.

 

[ShropshireLad]

Yes but you're talking about FOSUNS investment portfolio as their entire company... In terms of football they have us and a 20% stake in Gestifute. You have not once addressed the issue that they brought us to score political points which is well known.

I don't know what bigger picture unless FOSUN buy a massive club shortly, they have nothing to gain by playing positive and negative with other clubs books, by your logic we over payed for Cav so we are due a £10m player for £3m I'll take that.

If they don't get us in the prem we are useless to them why would a company that big waste their time with a club like wolves when they could of brought a prem team? Another question you haven't answered

Seeing as I can't change your mind I'll appreciate your point of view and will admit it won't be plain sailing however I will say any slight set back like Zenga, shouldn't be taken as some conspiracy theory that FOSUN are out to ruin us for their own interest.

Firstly, this is a discussion and not an argument.
All I can say, Alex, is that I have concerns and I've outlined them. As for the political points scoring, they didn't get off to a good start - I only guess they want to be big in the Chinese football world and to have a Prem club under their wing would go down well but that isn't anything that I've seen in print. They've put their faith in Mendes and I guess will continue to do so and therein lies some of my concerns. Moreover, I'm sure that they're not out to ruin us but I am sure that they're not just a benevolent benefactor. I worry about pay-back time if it all goes tits up.

What really surprises me is that no one else hears any alarm bells ringing.

 

[AlexWWFC]

Firstly, this is a discussion and not an argument.
All I can say, Alex, is that I have concerns and I've outlined them. As for the political points scoring, they didn't get off to a good start - I only guess they want to be big in the Chinese football world and to have a Prem club under their wing would go down well but that isn't anything that I've seen in print. They've put their faith in Mendes and I guess will continue to do so and therein lies some of my concerns. Moreover, I'm sure that they're not out to ruin us but I am sure that they're not just a benevolent benefactor. I worry about pay-back time if it all goes tits up.

What really surprises me is that no one else hears any alarm bells ringing.

From the last thread I know you have Wolves best interest at heart and you are a good soul, I'm going to be completely honest I'm too drunk to argue.

Don't get me wrong I could but its the last time to argue

 

[AlexWWFC]

I will however continue this at a later date

 

[Floyd Man]

From the last thread I know you have Wolves best interest at heart and you are a good soul, I'm going to be completely honest I'm too drunk to argue.

Don't get me wrong I could but its the last time to argue

I love that honesty.

 

[goldfish]

I think this is pretty much spot-on, save some conjecture towards the end (which the author acknowledges is conjecture).

It's not necessarily a bad thing, though: whilst it means Fosun's aim in buying Wolves isn't necessarily to get us into the Premier League at all costs, it:

1) Won't hurt them if we do get promoted.
2) Will be very bad for them if we're relegated or become a laughing stock.

There is a caveat here though: number 2 applies only in the short-term. If Wolves are a means to an end (even if that end isn't specific) then the club's usefulness to Fosun has a shelf-life. And once that's up they may suddenly lose interest.

And whilst guanxi is uniquely Chinese, we need to be careful to avoid making an exception of Fosun because they're Chinese. Lots of owners of lots of football clubs from lots of countries own those clubs for reasons other than the success of the club. In fact, almost all of them do. For some, the success of the club on the field is very important for those reasons (Abramovich owns Chelsea to boost his image as a winner: he therefore really needs Chelsea to win stuff quite regularly; the Glazers own Manchester United primarily to make money: they don't need Man Utd to win quite so much, or at least quite so frequently). We're not in a great situation with Fosun, but we're not in a terrible one.

 

[Mugwump]

Fosun have bought us to make themselves a lot of money. They won't do that in the championship.

 

[Ivegotawolvesscarf]

Fosun have bought us to make themselves a lot of money. They won't do that in the championship.

It takes hardly any research at all to know that you can't make a lot of money owning and running a PL football club.

Unless they were asset strippers, crooks or idiots almost all the owners of English football clubs past and present have had non-profit motives for their clubs.

On the other hand, I think it's just wishful thinking that a Chinese investment conglomerate has decided to invest significant resources in winning a football league on the other side of the world with a team from a tiny town purely because of their interest in sport and desire to show if their football management talents or to impress the glitterati of Beijing.

I reckon they've bought us to make money, but not the kind of money earned by a football club.

 

[Mugwump]

They will build us up, then sell us, that's how I think they will go about it anyway. On Top of that, they once they have made us successful, they will reap the rewards of tapping into the income streams from the far east. They may well decide To stick with us if we become a top club again, the financial benefits will be massive for them.

 

[KnowleWolf]

They will build us up, then sell us, that's how I think they will go about it anyway. On Top of that, they once they have made us successful, they will reap the rewards of tapping into the income streams from the far east. They may well decide Top stuck with us if we become a top club again, the financial benefits will be massive for them.

Jeff has said publicly they see this as a minimum 10 year project

 

[ShropshireLad]

They will build us up, then sell us, that's how I think they will go about it anyway. On Top of that, they once they have made us successful, they will reap the rewards of tapping into the income streams from the far east. They may well decide Top stuck with us if we become a top club again, the financial benefits will be massive for them.

I hear what you say and hope that is so.

 

[Lawley Wolf]

I'm just glad they've spent a fair bit of money on players and seem well up for getting us promoted, whatever the cost and method. - Long may it continue.

 

[ShropshireLad]

It seems that for all my effort I've inspired a lot of posts which have earned "Likes" for the respective writers but none for my own take on the situation.

 

[Stratman Wolves]

I'm just glad they've spent a fair bit of money on players and seem well up for getting us promoted, whatever the cost and method. - Long may it continue.

This, most of you are pantswetting right now.

 

[ShropshireLad]

I'm just glad they've spent a fair bit of money on players and seem well up for getting us promoted, whatever the cost and method. - Long may it continue.

I don't credit that they do credit.

 

[astraltrader]

IMHO I think it is essential to FOSUN that we get promotion before too long.
The money they have pledged for players will only be recouped if this happens.
I worry about how patient they will be should this not happen.

 

[CodsallWolf]

It takes hardly any research at all to know that you can't make a lot of money owning and running a PL football club.

Unless they were asset strippers, crooks or idiots almost all the owners of English football clubs past and present have had non-profit motives for their clubs.

On the other hand, I think it's just wishful thinking that a Chinese investment conglomerate has decided to invest significant resources in winning a football league on the other side of the world with a team from a tiny town purely because of their interest in sport and desire to show if their football management talents or to impress the glitterati of Beijing.

I reckon they've bought us to make money, but not the kind of money earned by a football club.

But you can make a lot of money buying a small underachieving club at a lower level and increasing its value.