Fraser

[lets all have a disco]

You can say what you want about subs and system changes, you can’t plan for Sa’s actions for the first goal. A ball played into an empty 6 yard box should be meat and drink for any keeper.

Yes agree ....but all I was pointing out was if you are a body down in Cunha , is asking bellegarde to do something his isn't used to better than changing everybody else around ....Rayan must have played about 4 different positions 2nd half and eventually ended up at centre back more or less in a 3, with the bizarre sub on off Doherty.....who we all thought was a straight swap for Semedo but ended up left wing.....for me with threw everything out with the half time sub.....

Granted it was still fine margins.....as I said we've shown we can come back playing the same way countless times this season ...so why the knee jerk change at half time...

 

[Sheffield Wolf]

Yes agree ....but all I was pointing out was if you are a body down in Cunha , is asking bellegarde to do something his isn't used to better than changing everybody else around ....Rayan must have played about 4 different positions 2nd half and eventually ended up at centre back more or less in a 3, with the bizarre sub on off Doherty.....who we all thought was a straight swap for Semedo but ended up left wing.....for me with threw everything out with the half time sub.....

Granted it was still fine margins.....as I said we've shown we can come back playing the same way countless times this season ...so why the knee jerk change at half time...

I get the feeling O’Neil was recalling the great finish by Fraser in the cup a few weeks ago and was hoping for a repeat.

 

[sc91]

The worry with the whole FFP for me is that once again the manager (and presumably DoF) have entered the window with a plan, only to be told later that the budget isn't what they thought it was. Maybe Fraser was too soon, but we needed a bigger change at half time than a straight swap.

Its unfortunate but its the difference in planning and what has actually happened. Lot of belt tightening at Wolves.

 

[lets all have a disco]

I get the feeling O’Neil was recalling the great finish by Fraser in the cup a few weeks ago and was hoping for a repeat.

Yes....but for me we needed to make sure we kept a clean sheet 2nd half....as boring as it is....I get Fraser and fully support him but don't think changing everything around to get him in was the answer....last Ditch yes...but not at half time.......for me we ruined Rayan in the process and probably semedo as an attacking outlet.....we totally lost our shape...our shape that has been successful...

 

[groundhogwolf]

It's people who were dusting off their passports after Chelsea and are now wearing black armbands over the death of their dreams.

Lose to Brighton and they'll be digging up the Ipswich thread. Win our next three and they'll be working out what competition we'll be in if we finish 6th and win the FA Cup.

That's the joy of a football forum with genuine fans who feel every beat. When you love with passion over pragmatism, that's what you get - unbridled highs and crushing lows.

I'm still buzzing from West Brom.

Funny yesterday on the way to the game I had decided that after all the recent games against the team that has more physically fragile players than any side I have ever seen, we were due a loss, however still gutted when it turned into reality.

 

[Minimalist]

Yes....but for me we needed to make sure we kept a clean sheet 2nd half....as boring as it is....I get Fraser and fully support him but don't think changing everything around to get him in was the answer....last Ditch yes...but not at half time.......for me we ruined Rayan in the process and probably semedo as an attacking outlet.....we totally lost our shape...our shape that has been successful...

I wondered if Gomes had a knock or some issue? Even if we wanted a back 4 I’d of expected Gomes at LB with RAN playing further forward?

 

[Madmalc]

O'Neil singles out one Wolves star for praise after 2-0 defeat to Brentford

'To be fair to him...' ️

www.molineux.news

 

[Timberwolf]

I’m not crucyfing anyone ffs. I’m making the point that a team in 10th in the premier league, really shouldn’t be bringing on Tetenhall u19 striker should they. It’s frustrating…so near yet so far etc….

You have a pop at Jeff / Fosun…again, yet you also state we’re 10th in the Premier League. We’re also not under any threat of being relegated nor having any points deducted for overspending. Unless of course you wanted Jeff to risk everything just to pander to the malcontents?

 

[DanishWolf]

Based solely on yesterday none of our players are ready yet, so don't know why anyone can come to that conclusion with regards to Fraser. He wasn't better or worse than the rest of the team.
Luckily we all know the team can play better than this and that might well be the case for him as well.

 

[wolfslair]

Having 'no proper central striker' has gotten us this far... how many teams in this league play with a traditional #9 now anyway? More of a criticism towards Bellegarde than Fraser in my opinion, as he was who replaced Cunha.

If Cunha is out, then Hwang replaces him. He's decent I've heard...

Can’t criticise bellegarde, he isn’t a cf/false 9.

Playing out of position is bloody hard, especially in the prem

 

[Minimalist]

Can’t criticise bellegarde, he isn’t a cf/false 9.

Playing out of position is bloody hard, especially in the prem

What is a false 9 though? What attributes are expected?
Pre Haaland , Foden played the role to some effect.

I think the important thing about a false 9 is the link up between them and the players around them. Losing Cunha just changes the dynamic between the whole front 3. Like losing Neto did. If Cunha is out for a while I think we’ll find a way to alter things and make the 3 work.

We worried losing Neto would derail everything. Then we thought the same when Hwang was absent.

 

[DJLWolf]

I personally thought we looked far more dangerous/threatening when Fraser came on and we pushed Neto out to the right wing.

I thought fraser held the ball up pretty well for an 18 year old lad.

Would prefer him up top than bellegarde or Neto myself.

 

[lets all have a disco]

I wondered if Gomes had a knock or some issue? Even if we wanted a back 4 I’d of expected Gomes at LB with RAN playing further forward?

Could have been one of the players who was ill at the start of the week maybe...

 

[SuperGran]

Fraser | 'We know when we need to do better'

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Fraser | 'We know when we need to do better'

The lad talks sense

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Fraser | 'We know when we need to do better'

He's done well there, especially considering the thinking seemed to be that what was actually best for him was a loan, but when we couldn't get anyone in that was changed.

 

[oldgoldheart]

Funny yesterday on the way to the game I had decided that after all the recent games against the team that has more physically fragile players than any side I have ever seen, we were due a loss, however still gutted when it turned into reality.

Football rarely allows three wins against the same team in two months. Even teams like city would find it hard. I have a group of mates who thought we would win but i went 0-2 with a toney goal. Main thing is getting hwang and cunha back fit

 

[Ned]

Should have come out the same 2nd half .... bellegarde had only been on a bit ....we need a clean sheet to come back into the game , not radical changing of system and leave us a body short at the back.... vulnerable to going 0-2......changing it failed......we were still in the game at half time....no need to change everything around....

Got to disagree with this, I’m afraid. We were all over Brentford after the change (although not really looking like scoring) and only conceded because Dawson passed the ball to them in a silly position.

This coming after a truly horrendous first half from us.

 

[Plovdiv Wolf]

He look lively

 

[lets all have a disco]

Got to disagree with this, I’m afraid. We were all over Brentford after the change (although not really looking like scoring) and only conceded because Dawson passed the ball to them in a silly position.

This coming after a truly horrendous first half from us.

I thought we was all over the shop, 2nd half......not sure 1 player understood where he was supposed to be playing.....topped of by the Doherty sub and Rayan being pushed into a back 3......even pointed pointed and said 'me'.....we totally lost our shape.

Granted we was as well first half ...same against man utd...but we stuck to what we have been doing and came back...we've come back against Brentford before in game without changing everything around ...
...

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I thought we was all over the shop, 2nd half......not sure 1 player understood where he was supposed to be playing.....topped of by the Doherty sub and Rayan being pushed into a back 3......even pointed pointed and said 'me'.....we totally lost our shape.

Granted we was as well first half ...same against man utd...but we stuck to what we have been doing and came back...we've come back against Brentford before in game without changing everything around ...
...

Don't think that's right, thought we played a fairly conventional 4231 with Sarabia in the 10 second half, only went to a bit of a mess when Doc came on.

 

[Linwolf]

I’m not blaming him for one second. I’m making the point that, for all the positives this season, it’s really, really poor we are having to bring him on at HT at this level.

Frustrating.

Yes totally agree, he should be on loan for his development.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Don't think that's right, thought we played a fairly conventional 4231 with Sarabia in the 10 second half, only went to a bit of a mess when Doc came on.

I thought the change negated Ait nouri myself at half time.....and rendered him less effective....it's was more important to use Ait nouri further forward after losing Cunha......we will have to agree to disagree but we have seen countless times switching to a four at back makes us vulnerable to conceding more....we was still in the game at half time 0-1 but it was important to keep a clean sheet...

 

[Ned]

I thought we was all over the shop, 2nd half......not sure 1 player understood where he was supposed to be playing.....topped of by the Doherty sub and Rayan being pushed into a back 3......even pointed pointed and said 'me'.....we totally lost our shape.

Granted we was as well first half ...same against man utd...but we stuck to what we have been doing and came back...we've come back against Brentford before in game without changing everything around ...
...

Let’s face it, we could have snuck an additional 3 players onto the pitch and we still wouldn’t have won on Saturday. We went to a 4231 and I think the idea was maybe for Fraser to occupy the defenders as much as he could in order to free up Neto, Sarabia and Bellegarde but it was a 19 year old up against 3 brutish centre backs in the end and all we did was get it wide and hope for something to drop in the middle.

 

[Minimalist]

Yes totally agree, he should be on loan for his development.

Possibly.
But it’s not the end of the world him still being here as a bit part player. Still very young.
A whole season on loan next season including a pre season with his loan club would be a good plan for his development.

 

[Minimalist]

I thought the change negated Ait nouri myself at half .....and rendered him less effective....it's was more important to use Ait nouri further forward after losing Cunha......we will have to agree to disagree but we have seen countless times switching to a four at back makes us vulnerable to conceding more....we was still in the game at half time 0-1 but it was important to keep a clean sheet...

Agree about RAN.
If going to a 4 I think it would have been better to have Gomes LB and RAN left wing in a 442. Neto on the right.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I thought the change negated Ait nouri myself at half .....and rendered him less effective....it's was more important to use Ait nouri further forward after losing Cunha......we will have to agree to disagree but we have seen countless times switching to a four at back makes us vulnerable to conceding more....we was still in the game at half time 0-1 but it was important to keep a clean sheet...

I'm not judging whether or not it was the right switch, RAN did still get forward a lot, for me his ball to Neto should have been the moment of the match if only Neto had trusted his (quite good) right foot and hit it rather than coming back inside. My point though was not whether it was a good change, just that it wasn't right to say that nobody knew where they were supposed to be playing (until Doc came on!).

 

[lets all have a disco]

Let’s face it, we could have snuck an additional 3 players onto the pitch and we still wouldn’t have won on Saturday. We went to a 4231 and I think the idea was maybe for Fraser to occupy the defenders as much as he could in order to free up Neto, Sarabia and Bellegarde but it was a 19 year old up against 3 brutish centre backs in the end and all we did was get it wide and hope for something to drop in the middle.

Yes it's all hindsight...but to say it worked 2nd half was wrong we lost 0-1....we conceded a goal from open play which we didn't in the first half.....we've shown sticking to what we do, we can come back countless times this season.......for the change at half time I would have made was Doyle for Gomes.....it might not have worked granted.....but we lost our attacking threat down the left with Cunha off and the put Rayan left back......which meant if Brentford snuffed Neto out we was toast....Rayan down the left , Neto right was double the threat....even set pieces we had removed the threat of toti kilman dawson by talking one off ....

 

[Ned]

Yes it's all hindsight...but to say it worked 2nd half was wrong we lost 0-1....we conceded a goal from open play which we didn't in the first half.....we've shown sticking to what we do, we can come back countless times this season.......for the change at half time I would have made was Doyle for Gomes.....it might not have worked granted.....but we lost our attacking threat down the left with Cunha off and the put Rayan left back......which meant if Brentford snuffed Neto out we was toast....Rayan down the left , Neto right was double the threat....even set pieces we had removed the threat of toti kilman dawson by talking one off ....

Yea but performance wise we were a lot better in the first half and the goal was a terrible error from Dawson. It was from open play, yes, but you could play our usual system and that goal still happens.

 

[wwbug]

Repeating errors . Silva was not nurtured properly . Fraser should not be considered for a Premier League match. We only needed an upgrade on Sasa not a wannabe European striker from Chelsea or PSV .

 

[lets all have a disco]

Yea but performance wise we were a lot better in the first half and the goal was a terrible error from Dawson. It was from open play, yes, but you could play our usual system and that goal still happens.

I'm never bothered about performance....it's points I want......could we have got a point sticking to what we do....maybe not but we got nowt by changing...

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I'm never bothered about performance....it's points I want......could we have got a point sticking to what we do....maybe not but we got nowt by changing...

Which sums up the pointlessness of a discussion on it. Basically we lost so what he did was wrong. If we'd done something different we might have won. Although of course we could have stuck with what we did in the first half regardless of the crap performance, but we lost that too (lucky to be only one down).

 

[lets all have a disco]

Which sums up the pointlessness of a discussion on it. Basically we lost so what he did was wrong. If we'd done something different we might have won. Although of course we could have stuck with what we did in the first half regardless of the crap performance, but we lost that too (lucky to be only one down).

Agree but let's hope we go back to what we nw against Spurs......I can't think for a minute we won't....

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Agree but let's hope we go back to what we nw against Spurs......I can't think for a minute we won't....

Well hopefully we've got Cunha fit. The team that started at Chelsea would be perfect again, but I don't think it was for Brentford.

 

[wwbug]

Amazing how we still are discussing lack of a striker over 3 years since Jimenez had his injury. Disgraceful really.

Many thought Bellegarde or Fraser could cover . And of course we had Neto and Sarabia Hwang and Cunha. So the ignorance was not just limited to the boardroom .

 

[Scallywolf]

Yes totally agree, he should be on loan for his development.

Absolutely.

I still can't believe we shipped out 2 strikers, who cost over £50million between them in January, without a replacement coming in.

How coincidental in that we had no experienced strikers on the pitch after just 20 minutes on Saturday.

Crazy!

 

[Contrarian]

I'm never bothered about performance....it's points I want......could we have got a point sticking to what we do....maybe not but we got nowt by changing...

A non-league manager I knew would often say: "Points always catch up with performance". If it's a cup match, or you need the points for a title or relegation battle, then yes, points are all that matters. It's a crazy sport and anything can happen in 1 or 2 matches. But in the mid- to long- run, scraping points while performing badly, mostly ends up with no points, too.

Anyway ... I think we are a classic mid-table team. Results and performances vary, we seem inconsistent. We need certain key players to be fit and on their game. Our performance also depends a lot on the way our opponents play. Chelsea at their ground, for example, are obliged to get forward against the likes of us. Brentford at our ground, aren't. And they played exactly the way that we struggle most against. Add in that those who have scored about 2/3 of our goals were missing (once Cunha got injured), then it's going to be a struggle as all in all, we've lost the things that give us an edge.

I was wondering about our overall mentality to this game. We started like a team that was believing the hype. And then beginning to panic when Brentford were strolling through us like we weren't there. That look people have when reality isn't bending to what they believed! That's happened a few times this season too, especially against bottom end of the table teams. Could be totally wrong, but in hindsight, perhaps we should have approached it like we did the Albion game? Much more cautious, don't give anything away for the first 30 mins or so. Close the game down to a stalemate which might have led Brentford to leave some gaps. Also should have done similar for the Man U match, where we looked all over the place for the first 30 mins. Not going to get the glowing praise we got for Chelsea match, but may well have got some points instead.

 

[lets all have a disco]

A non-league manager I knew would often say: "Points always catch up with performance". If it's a cup match, or you need the points for a title or relegation battle, then yes, points are all that matters. It's a crazy sport and anything can happen in 1 or 2 matches. But in the mid- to long- run, scraping points while performing badly, mostly ends up with no points, too.

Anyway ... I think we are a classic mid-table team. Results and performances vary, we seem inconsistent. We need certain key players to be fit and on their game. Our performance also depends a lot on the way our opponents play. Chelsea at their ground, for example, are obliged to get forward against the likes of us. Brentford at our ground, aren't. And they played exactly the way that we struggle most against. Add in that those who have scored about 2/3 of our goals were missing (once Cunha got injured), then it's going to be a struggle as all in all, we've lost the things that give us an edge.

I was wondering about our overall mentality to this game. We started like a team that was believing the hype. And then beginning to panic when Brentford were strolling through us like we weren't there. That look people have when reality isn't bending to what they believed! That's happened a few times this season too, especially against bottom end of the table teams. Could be totally wrong, but in hindsight, perhaps we should have approached it like we did the Albion game? Much more cautious, don't give anything away for the first 30 mins or so. Close the game down to a stalemate which might have led Brentford to leave some gaps. Also should have done similar for the Man U match, where we looked all over the place for the first 30 mins.

That's why I think we shouldn't have changed it ...when we think we are Brazil, we normally end up like Barnsley.....opening ourselves up , normally result in a loss....

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

I like him and think he's done pretty well in all the cameos he's had.

They way he tries to bring others into play is excellent for his age and experience.

 

[Glow69]

Decent cameo.