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Financial situation of the club

SingYourHeartsOut

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It's both. Even with all this he should have stayed this season.
Obviously you and I would stay and do the job for nothing but the honour regardless of a transfer budget. I think it's a stretch to expect a coach with no intrinsic loyalty to the club to potentially destroy his reputation as a coach by managing our decline though. I guess we'll never know, but I'd like to think he walked away relatively cheaply.
 

Perton Wolf

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If there was an existential threat, they'd have sold Kilman, so you can calm down a bit.
Still time for that, surely one big name (Nunes?) will now leave before the window shuts, seeing as there will be zero opposition from our new yes man of a head coach.
 

Perton Wolf

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I very much doubt they're taking money out. And I think that would have to be reported quickly anyway.

If Fosun need money, even selling wolves would barely move the needle.
Have been told they are looking to take money out of the club......which came as a shock to me but looks possible now.

No idea why they won't sell us because our value can only go down from this point, that would surely make more sense.
 

SingYourHeartsOut

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If they knew he was going some weeks ago they probably didn't want him signing anyone, free or otherwise.
Yes, fair point, expect a surge of Hobbs / O'Neil picks to come in by the weekend then .....
 

sillytuna

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I very much doubt they're taking money out. And I think that would have to be reported quickly anyway.

If Fosun need money, even selling wolves would barely move the needle.
It helps with interest payments. And money out is a bit more complex than it may appear. It could also be just FFP or purely cash flow. I certainly don't expect us to be in trouble outside of that - especially if we're paying off the entire coaching team!
 

Kebab Warrior

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Seriously??? You are actually putting some of the blame for this on the players???? Who exactly is it who’s an overpriced mercenary with zero commitment? Joao Gomes? Lemina? Dawson?

You obviously mean Fabio don’t you? Of course, this is all his fault
No m not, I’m predicting the future.
Over priced mercenaries: Semedo, Guedes, Podence? And yes Fabio he will be on the phone to his agent along with the rest of them now Julen’s ****ed off.
 

Dan G WWFC

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Heard some little bits and from what other people have said that link together. I think this is what's happened.

FfP was a issue and a profit was needed. But the real issue is Fosun don't want to invest this season but instead take some money out. They're unhappy with how they recent investment panned out. They was looking to be self-sufficient last season but it changed last minute after a meeting with Mendes. As they spent a lot of money and we ended up in a relegation scrap and needed further investment again in Jan. They're seeing this season as a break from invest and want to recoup some funds The confusion was the new model of 8-15m "investment signings" would go ahead next season. Club thought they was doing it this year. But as signings got close they found out the cash wasn't in the bank.

Fosun could change again last minute and spend a little bit this window or in January but as they've got rid of Lopetegui and Hobbs has already been to China. I doubt they will unless it looks like relegation again.
 
T

TheConcourse

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Was informed a few weeks ago that our finances were and I quote 'dire' but no idea it was so bad to the point that Lopetegui was told he couldn't even sign players on a free transfer.

Think urgent clarification needs to be sought from supporter groups/trust as to the financial stability and viability of the club as a whole, this isn't just an issue of transfers, wages and FFP at the moment, this could well be an existential threat to the club's long term future. Yes, we'd arguably be the biggest to fall and some may argue we're too big in terms of the finances the PL provides to fail but plenty of historical clubs have to this date, and we shouldn't complacent as supporters.
Agree. Fans need to take action now and demand Fosun to sell up.

This isn’t about Premier League safety.

I do not want to become a club with vacant ownership.
 

wolfgar

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Why won’t they sell us?
No idea, but clearly no-ones offered to buy us for the sort of money they’d be asking, or I reckon they would have done so already. We may well get through this season, but they don’t want or are unable to invest and their decision making will eventually tank us IMV
 

WWFC4EVA

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No idea, but clearly no-ones offered to buy us for the sort of money they’d be asking, or I reckon they would have done so already. We may well get through this season, but they don’t want or are unable to invest and their decision making will eventually tank us IMV
The crazy thing is, their recent actions must've wiped millions off the value of the club... so now the ball would be in any buyers court... wouldn't it?
 

Wolves Heathen

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If our finances are so dire, how on earth can we afford to pay off JL and his 6 backroom staff?

How many millions has that cost?
I know we have only seen the 6 in the photo shoots, but did you seen the size of his backroom staff on matchdays?, at some grounds there was not enough room for them all to sit pitchside.
 

Scallywolf

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I know we have only seen the 6 in the photo shoots, but did you seen the size of his backroom staff on matchdays?, at some grounds there was not enough room for them all to sit pitchside.
Match days would have included his backroom staff, medical staff as well as the substitutes.

That would be getting on for 20 on the bench(es)!
 

wwfc9

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**** all wrong with the financial situation , I’d like to bet lopetegue didn’t want to tow the line and have gestifute players pushed on him !! Wouldn’t be surprised to see a couple of mendes players through the door now he’s gone …
 

wwfc9

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No m not, I’m predicting the future.
Over priced mercenaries: Semedo, Guedes, Podence? And yes Fabio he will be on the phone to his agent along with the rest of them now Julen’s ****ed off.
Correct me if I’m wrong though but mostly money generated by the club bought these players , whether it through player sales , tv money etc , so that’s not out of fosuns pockets it’s the clubs coffers …
Now on the other hand they have reportedly got a 20% stake in gestifute so say there is a 5m agent fee involved in One of said players aren’t fosun effectively £1m up ?
 

Bacon Sandwich

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Posted this in the Lopetegui thread but it is perhaps more relevant here:

Fosun sent a few very clear messages to the football world yesterday.
  • We’re ****ed financially. Our cash flow is so bad that we’ll somehow pay Lopetegui and his staff off rather than continue to pay their wages. So our cash flow is ****ed now and it’s not going to improve any time soon
  • If we make offers for your players, feel free to laugh at them. We’re only doing it to stop the fans bitching
  • Every player we have is for sale. We need the money, so don’t worry about low offers
  • Oh, and help yourself to our best backroom staff. Medical, analysts, recruitment. They're not going to stay at a club with no ambition and yep, we need to save the wages.
In truth, the signs have been there for a while. The problems of companies live Evergrande in China, borrowing from that Aussie bank at 9% when base rate was 0.5% and – above all – the fact that they can’t afford a few can of paint for the stadium
 

Bacon Sandwich

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I very much doubt they're taking money out. And I think that would have to be reported quickly anyway.

If Fosun need money, even selling wolves would barely move the needle.
It's not quite that simple, Flump. Fosun will have loans (bonds) from literally hundreds of banks. These bonds will fall due for repayment at various times. So it may be a 9% bond falling due for repayment in August, and then in September there'll be another bond falling due for repayment to a different bank. If they fail to make a repayment they're in default, and the whole house of cards comes down. So they'll desperately sell assets to meet the bond repayments coming due. One month it'll be a building, the next month it could be Max Kilman, one month - God willing - it will be Wolves as a whole. But they can meet a lot of repayment liabilities by selling our best players.

Read @Mighty Thor 's posts. It is impossible to overestimate how much financial trouble Fosun are in
 

Rangiora Wolf

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What I cant understand is why they'd want to stay and only flick off a small share and then risk the very real possibility of relegation where their investment tanks. It doesnt make any sense at all.
 

wolvesaywe

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I've been told to expect sales.

Silva was the only name mentioned, but expect a few to go.
That really will be the trigger for direct action from fans

We actually have a decent team who seem to have a good bond and may still surprise a few. Start cherry picking the best players and all hell will break loose
 

Cousins78

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That really will be the trigger for direct action from fans

We actually have a decent team who seem to have a good bond and may still surprise a few. Start cherry picking the best players and all hell will break loose
If this happens then fans should just stay away. Only way to show what an absolute ****show this
club is
 

Flea

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That really will be the trigger for direct action from fans

We actually have a decent team who seem to have a good bond and may still surprise a few. Start cherry picking the best players and all hell will break loose
Add what might be a shaky start of the season resultwise to that and it will be one toxic mix indeed.
 

Starsky

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I've said on another thread that eyes should be on Hobbs.

If he goes quickly, we will go the way of Portsmouth IMO.

There is relevance in Jeff being over in China whilst all this is going on. And not in a good way. I suspect that the financial situation with Fosun is like a runaway train now.
 

Berlin Wolf

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If our finances are so dire, how on earth can we afford to pay off JL and his 6 backroom staff?

How many millions has that cost?
They could have added those millions to the supposed Alex Scott second bid and bought him.
 

Flump

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It's not quite that simple, Flump. Fosun will have loans (bonds) from literally hundreds of banks. These bonds will fall due for repayment at various times. So it may be a 9% bond falling due for repayment in August, and then in September there'll be another bond falling due for repayment to a different bank. If they fail to make a repayment they're in default, and the whole house of cards comes down. So they'll desperately sell assets to meet the bond repayments coming due. One month it'll be a building, the next month it could be Max Kilman, one month - God willing - it will be Wolves as a whole. But they can meet a lot of repayment liabilities by selling our best players.

Read @Mighty Thor 's posts. It is impossible to overestimate how much financial trouble Fosun are in

Yes, I'm aware Fosun (and pretty much every large company) will have loans and bonds due.

I guess we'll see what happens, but there have been a lot of ill informed people making weird claims of Fosun taking money out of Wolves, when previously they haven't given themselves a penny. I'm sure Keiran Mauire will be on it quickly if there's any sudden special dividends paid out, or circular loans to Fosun!
 

Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)

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Would absolutely hate to see it but presumably either an American consortium or Middle-East pseudo state investment fund would bite your hand off for a PL club before a ball is kicked.
You know if we do sell to a Middle-Eastern pseudo state it’s bound to be Yemen
 

Alex Rae The Substitute

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Reading mate of mine has been warning for ages that the Chinese ownership is toxic now and pointing to them and WBA, saying it’s going to catch up with us.

I’m starting to fear he’s right (when previously I’d been saying we’d just got lucky with good ones)… I do think there is something behind the scenes we don’t know about and we’re proper ****ed. Financially and just in general now.
 

Scallywolf

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They could have added those millions to the supposed Alex Scott second bid and bought him.
I agree Berlin.

More players to be sold to pay for JL and his backroom team pay offs more like now!
 

Berlin Wolf

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I agree Berlin.

More players to be sold to pay for JL and his backroom team pay offs more like now!
Apart from paying off JL and his backroom team, the club now has to pay out for the new manager and his backroom staff.
 

StourWolves

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They could have added those millions to the supposed Alex Scott second bid and bought him.
I don't think we could even get close to Scott's valuation tbh. Sounds like we made the bids and then realised our financial position was worse than thought (or apparently so).
 

Bawtry Wolf

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Fosun won’t sell, unless they’re forced to, until they have stripped the assets out of the club. Expect sales either now or in January of Max, Nunes, Gomes, Silva and possibly Neto. If they start ok that could get them £120-£150m which will mean they’ll have offloaded £230m plus. The club may then be sold for £100/£150m at end of the season and they get a lot of their money back.
 

oldgoldheart

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Was informed a few weeks ago that our finances were and I quote 'dire' but no idea it was so bad to the point that Lopetegui was told he couldn't even sign players on a free transfer.

Think urgent clarification needs to be sought from supporter groups/trust as to the financial stability and viability of the club as a whole, this isn't just an issue of transfers, wages and FFP at the moment, this could well be an existential threat to the club's long term future. Yes, we'd arguably be the biggest to fall and some may argue we're too big in terms of the finances the PL provides to fail but plenty of historical clubs have to this date, and we shouldn't complacent as supporters.
portsmouth? leeds?
 
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