Expectations on ticket prices?

[cannockwolves]

I know it's been a source of debate many times but what to people think it's realistic to expect ticket prices after the redevelopment?

Personally I think the redevelopment is about maximising revenue rather than lowering prices. I know we all want a full ground, but if anyone thinks we are going to get much lower prices I think they are kidding themselves. I don't think they can lower the prices to levels that would drive up attendance and make more money.

Look at a few numbers;
30k x £25 ticket price is £750k income per game
27k x £30 ticket price is £810k income per game
36k x £20 ticket price is £720k income per game

I think this sort of price dynamic is lost on many people. Anyone thinking we will return to the days of £20 ticks are dreaming. The increased capacity may help them keep price increases down but I doubt we will see wholesale price decreases.

If a business truly wanted to maximise income they may chose to have 24k supporters paying £35 a ticket (£840k income) - isn't this what QPR tried?

I also think the link between ticket price and attendance is interesting. Can someone afford to go at £28 a ticket but not at £30?

 

[reanswolf]

Too simplistic I feel mate. £20 for all is morally great but dont think many expect anything like that.

Some reductions on tickets for 'some' categories only, would help increase ticket sales........18-21's, new ST holders. Any small loss may be partially offset by income from the extra sales of merchandise. I used to religiously buy programmes but higher ticket cost must affect sales of everything else on matchday from food to drink to Wolves merchandise.

Surely its dawned on Wolves that at current prices there is absolutely no need to expand capacity, so one can only conclude that they will drop prices or it makes no common sense at all.

I also believe cost affected lower gates do the club no good in terms of reputation. I know wages offered ultimatley dictate where players will go, but its good that they see an enthused and increasing fanbase. It creates a good feeling factor and represents a club on the up who are embraced by their fans.

 

[Deleted member 3751]

For increased gates at lower prices you have to hope the current availability of Prem games in pubs continues. Because crowds will dwindle and it's only then that clubs will drop admission . As long as we're getting around 25,000 at matches nothing will drop.

 

[BlahBlah]

No business will charge lower than it needs to....it will only be forced into changes.
Wolves are very sharp at squeezing maximum income at the moment....and they now have a cast iron excuse for the next 2 seasons to keep prices high because of capacity and relocation issues.

Afterwards.....the club will be expecting to make much more income from corporate and non-football related activities.
Whether that will make a difference in ticket prices......refer back to the first sentence.
The only difference will be that they will have invested in a 37,000 stadium, so the dynamics for filling it will be different.

 

[Woodsetton Wolf]

If the early bird carries on that shows good value for each game, but they need to increase the numbers of holders by reducing the initial rate for first time buyers.
Wolves also need to lower the match by match supporter prices because I just can't see them competing with the games shown live every week in the pubs.

 

[306NOTOUT]

36,000 x £25 = £900k

But all those figures are distorted because you have 10000 people paying £20 a game through their season ticket sales

 

[rhys2702]

Attendances would increase if free streams stopped. Therefore the streams are indirectly keeping the prices as they are for now.

If people couldn't watch the match for free demand would increase and price increases would no doubt be considered

 

[kennyB]

Too simplistic I feel mate. £20 for all is morally great but dont think many expect anything like that.

Some reductions on tickets for 'some' categories only, would help increase ticket sales........18-21's, new ST holders. Any small loss may be partially offset by income from the extra sales of merchandise. I used to religiously buy programmes but higher ticket cost must affect sales of everything else on matchday from food to drink to Wolves merchandise.

Surely its dawned on Wolves that at current prices there is absolutely no need to expand capacity, so one can only conclude that they will drop prices or it makes no common sense at all.

I also believe cost affected lower gates do the club no good in terms of reputation. I know wages offered ultimatley dictate where players will go, but its good that they see an enthused and increasing fanbase. It creates a good feeling factor and represents a club on the up who are embraced by their fans.

An interesting point re programmes Reans, what, if anything do Wolves get from their sales?

 

[arctic rime]

something needs to be done for the kids who move from 17 to a full ticket , its a very steep jump imo.

 

[North West Wanderer]

I do agree there should be a higher price for first time season ticket holders - it incentivises an early bird renewal then.

 

[Deleted member 3604]

A full house which earns the same revenue due to lower priced tickets doesn't give Mick any further spending power in terms of gate receipts unless an increased gate spend more on merchandise, refreshments and corporate facilities. I think an expectation of lower ticket prices must go hand in hand with a lesser expectation of big money signings.

Unless Morgan and Moxey can market the ticket prices as ' An investment in the club ' they face empty seats. Unless you can convince somebody that watching a good football team playing good football teams in great facilities is value for money or worth scrimping and saving elsewhere for then the vision will fail.

If football as a whole doesn't get it's head together and reduce costs the vision at Molineux will grind to a halt. Which is a shame. Hopefully Morgan doesn't lose interest. Maybe it's just me but the hysterical reactions on here to having to sit in a stand that hasn't got a roof on it for a few weeks is daunting when you consider what they are trying to do long term for us. We are very spoilt.

 

[cannockwolves]

Good debate guys, interesting to know what others expect. I know its a very complex problem. I agree wholeheartedly with any suggestions to keep kids and youth prices down. They must build the wolves habit because once you stop going it's hard to start again. My mate came with us for 25 years and 3 years ago stopped and has not been since. Combination of prices and outside pressures.

 

[reanswolf]

An interesting point re programmes Reans, what, if anything do Wolves get from their sales?

Probably not as much I would hope for kenny. But with kids in tow, they like to go to the club shop. Food and beer must be affected, if you have 5000 more fans due to lower prices, it would to some degree offset the loss.

Revenue from gates is not as important as TV revenue anyway. So any loss made would not be that significant.

I have pointed this out previously. How many 'new' ST holders did we have this season paying that extortionate price? 2000-3000. If we charged them £100 less (still slightly higher than early bird) that is a loss of £200-£300,000 straight off for the season. But on the other hand if we also attracted just a 1000 extra ST holders at that lower price that is an extra 1000 x £400 = £400,000 (and I believe that between 2-3000 extra would have purchased). Simple economics I know. Maybe I am missing something.

Once again, I have no problem with the club rewarding loyalty by realistic ST prices for early birders, as long as the extra price for non-St holders is not prohibitive and damaging to "our" fanbase.

We must try to attract fans whilst we are in this lofty position. Its a rare opportunity.

 

[reanswolf]

Good debate guys, interesting to know what others expect. I know its a very complex problem. I agree wholeheartedly with any suggestions to keep kids and youth prices down. They must build the wolves habit because once you stop going it's hard to start again. My mate came with us for 25 years and 3 years ago stopped and has not been since. Combination of prices and outside pressures.

Ditto. That is what worries me. Pubs are rammed with these people. For every Wolves fan in th ecity I know who goes still, I know around 8 who no longer go. Part of that is natural, but the noticeable change alarms me. I see no young people going unless their parents take them.

 

[OoohRobbieRobbie]

Too simplistic I feel mate. £20 for all is morally great but dont think many expect anything like that.

Some reductions on tickets for 'some' categories only, would help increase ticket sales........18-21's, new ST holders. Any small loss may be partially offset by income from the extra sales of merchandise. I used to religiously buy programmes but higher ticket cost must affect sales of everything else on matchday from food to drink to Wolves merchandise.

Surely its dawned on Wolves that at current prices there is absolutely no need to expand capacity, so one can only conclude that they will drop prices or it makes no common sense at all.

I also believe cost affected lower gates do the club no good in terms of reputation. I know wages offered ultimatley dictate where players will go, but its good that they see an enthused and increasing fanbase. It creates a good feeling factor and represents a club on the up who are embraced by their fans.

Agree. I have been saying this for a while now. I hope that is the case anyway or I honestly fear for the attendance after the redevelopment.

 

[reanswolf]

A full house which earns the same revenue due to lower priced tickets doesn't give Mick any further spending power in terms of gate receipts unless an increased gate spend more on merchandise, refreshments and corporate facilities. I think an expectation of lower ticket prices must go hand in hand with a lesser expectation of big money signings.

Unless Morgan and Moxey can market the ticket prices as ' An investment in the club ' they face empty seats. Unless you can convince somebody that watching a good football team playing good football teams in great facilities is value for money or worth scrimping and saving elsewhere for then the vision will fail.

If football as a whole doesn't get it's head together and reduce costs the vision at Molineux will grind to a halt. Which is a shame. Hopefully Morgan doesn't lose interest. Maybe it's just me but the hysterical reactions on here to having to sit in a stand that hasn't got a roof on it for a few weeks is daunting when you consider what they are trying to do long term for us. We are very spoilt.

I agree with a lot of what you say Papper, except your first paragraph. Why should the same revenue collected thru more sales at lower prices, link to an expectation of lesser signings?

The rest of it - bang on!

 

[welshy]

I think the Adult prices will freeze for a few years, and the club will offer the family days out in most games of the season.

Alot will depend where we are on the field aswel, if we are banging on the door for 7th -8th spot, i think there will be quite a large demand on tickets thus keeping them the same price, we could potentially sell around 32K inc away fans, then offer the family day for the remainder of the capacity.

 

[Deleted member 3604]

Why should the same revenue collected thru more sales at lower prices, link to an expectation of lesser signings?

They cannot afford the wages. Instead of having four or five 'Doyles' we'll only be able to afford one. Unless he can wheel or deal. Sadly, the more spending power available the higher the salary budget and consequently the better the player we attract. Having said that O'Hara will turn into Zidane today and Berra is the new Bobby Moore.

 

[Tom]

The summer renewal price is what is really damaging. Because of that, it means that the club can't be creative in match to match pricing because very quickly the summer ST price will be undercut and summer renewers will rightly say hold on a minute - it would have been cheaper to buy match by match !
It is also because of this that the club decide at the start of the season which are Cat A and B games. There is no flexibility on this, regardless of if games get switched for TV etc.

 

[mister-t]

this season i intended to buy a season ticket,even though i can watch every single wolves game at home via my sat system in glorious hd,but being made redundant yet again means can not do it this year unless my job prospects improve,i do think it is expensive for first time season tickets,but they have to show loyality to fans who renew every year,a price decrease for everyone in this economic climate would be appreciated by everyone in my oppinion,yes the ground will look nice when completed but if prices keep rising then half empty ground will not look very good
everything is going up and if the board dont realise that people are having to watch the pennies then they will soon realise when people dont attend games

 

[reanswolf]

They cannot afford the wages. Instead of having four or five 'Doyles' we'll only be able to afford one. Unless he can wheel or deal. Sadly, the more spending power available the higher the salary budget and consequently the better the player we attract. Having said that O'Hara will turn into Zidane today and Berra is the new Bobby Moore.

Just can't see why the "same" generated gate income (whether its generated via more bums at cheaper prices or less bums at higher prices) makes any difference to the spending power.

 

[Edgmond Wolf]

Can not see them altering the prices at the moment either up or down

 

[AW]

The economics of it is that people are only willing to pay a certain amount. As a business, the club needs the ground full and everybody paying the highest price they are willing to pay in order to maximise revenue.

Look at Chelsea, they fill their ground and can charge 50 quid because people can afford that.
Obviously the best way of doing it is to have different prices for each area of the ground.

It is simple price setting and if grounds will sell out at high ticket prices it will continue.

 

[Boss Hogg]

I think at some point it will move more towards the airline style pricing for casual supporters - a few cheap seats early on, a standard price until a few days before the game and then heavy discounting in the day or two before the game if not sold out.

 

[reanswolf]

I think another thing that inevitably deters casual fans apart from prices, is the situation with ticket deadlines in relation to loyalty points etc.

If we want to evolve and grow as a club we really need to be more enterprising.

 

[SE10 Wolf]

I think at some point it will move more towards the airline style pricing for casual supporters - a few cheap seats early on, a standard price until a few days before the game and then heavy discounting in the day or two before the game if not sold out.

Agree.

 

[GoldenHorseshoe]

You have to build support from youth, give the kids big discounts even up to their 21st birthday.
If they can't afford it as young people, and get into attending then, as young adults with the pressures that that situation brings, they will never start.
When I started going to games, in the late 60's even with the low income of being new in the workforce, it wasn't too difficult to pay on the day. Never had a season ticket in those days, couldn't afford the outlay, but never missed a game for a decade.

 

[Wolfman jack]

As someone who is about to suffer a significant income drop (thanks NHS), my ST will become more difficult to afford, but the attendance is surely directly linked to results and ambition, as much as the economic downturn.

 

[reanswolf]

As someone who is about to suffer a significant income drop (thanks NHS), my ST will become more difficult to afford, but the attendance is surely directly linked to results and ambition, as much as the economic downturn.

just 25000 v spurs after 2 wins and a draw!!

No sorry, its down to economics and admission prices.

 

[Westport Wolf]

9% Unemployment in the local area is a massive problem too.

 

[Danwolf]

No I dont think they will lower prices and unfortunately we are going to end up with a lot of empty seats. People just can't afford these prices anymore.

 

[reanswolf]

24189 - shocking! Hope you are watching that Wolves.

Unemployment of 9% only partly tells the problem. Loads of low paid low skilled workers, part-time, agency workers. As well as having the second worse unemployment rate in the country, we have most unskilled/unqualified workers in the UK.

When we had the recession in the 80's, Wolves had 2nd worse unemployment rate only to Liverpool in England. In St Peters ward (Whitmore Reans) unemployment rate in 1980's was as high as 37%.

Wolves need to react to local economy situations because the argument has always been the prices are right if the demand is there.

Well, to all those throwing that argument at me, the demand is no longer there. It was easy to see this was happening, but you held your heads in the lofty clouds. Wake up and smell the coffee FFS!!

Sorry to be so patronising, but believe over the last year I have been patronised enough times about this very matter.

 

[GoldenHorseshoe]

24189 - shocking! Hope you are watching that Wolves.

Unemployment of 9% only partly tells the problem. Loads of low paid low skilled workers, part-time, agency workers. As well as having the second worse unemployment rate in the country, we have most unskilled/unqualified workers in the UK.

When we had the recession in the 80's, Wolves had 2nd worse unemployment rate only to Liverpool in England. In St Peters ward (Whitmore Reans) unemployment rate in 1980's was as high as 37%.

Wolves need to react to local economy situations because the argument has always been the prices are right if the demand is there.

Well, to all those throwing that argument at me, the demand is no longer there. It was easy to see this was happening, but you held your heads in the lofty clouds. Wake up and smell the coffee FFS!!

Sorry to be so patronising, but believe over the last year I have been patronised enough times about this very matter.

Wow, is that true?
We must have exported them around the world then. When I was trained there was no better engineering people anywhere! Over the last 30 years I have met dozens of top people holding down top positions, in a variety of international companies. (I will admit they're getting older now though).

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

I know it's been a source of debate many times but what to people think it's realistic to expect ticket prices after the redevelopment?

Personally I think the redevelopment is about maximising revenue rather than lowering prices. I know we all want a full ground, but if anyone thinks we are going to get much lower prices I think they are kidding themselves. I don't think they can lower the prices to levels that would drive up attendance and make more money.

Look at a few numbers;
30k x £25 ticket price is £750k income per game
27k x £30 ticket price is £810k income per game
36k x £20 ticket price is £720k income per game

I think this sort of price dynamic is lost on many people. Anyone thinking we will return to the days of £20 ticks are dreaming. The increased capacity may help them keep price increases down but I doubt we will see wholesale price decreases.

If a business truly wanted to maximise income they may chose to have 24k supporters paying £35 a ticket (£840k income) - isn't this what QPR tried?

I also think the link between ticket price and attendance is interesting. Can someone afford to go at £28 a ticket but not at £30?

Gate receipts are no longer that important to football clubs.Sky money saw to that along with huge investments from some owners who don't have the game truly at heart.

The redevelopment will see further opportunities to increase income from "non-football activities" by several thousand. I see this as a good thing.

What's happening at Molineux -as everywhere- is the paying supporter is less important in terms of income.Gate receipts are a get-as-much-as-you-can from those prepared/able to pay it. Fewer supporters will be able/prepared to do either consistently in the coming years. I see this as a bad thing. Along with overpaid players/managers/directors.

The prospect of a half/three quarters empty Molineux is not going to help any Wolves team playing there.

As as been argued elsewhere, Greed is gradually causing the death of football games as a spectacle. Although the redevelopment has to be taken into account regarding Molineux this season, the rows of empty seats are proof of this. A third season in the top flight along with ambitious plans should see it full, IMV. The capacity is still 27000 or so so it should not be difficult. It is not happening. Around 3000 short today.

 

[andyc225]

I could've sworn I heard "We want our money back" at some point today.

 

[reanswolf]

Wow, is that true?
We must have exported them around the world then. When I was trained there was no better engineering people anywhere! Over the last 30 years I have met dozens of top people holding down top positions, in a variety of international companies. (I will admit they're getting older now though).

Yes mate it was on BBC midlands a few months back, local entrepreneurs complaining about a lack of skilled workforce. I dont say these things flippantly like i know some do. Wolverhampton (in this report) was shown to have highest % unskilled.

 

[Metal Wolf89]

Well I won't be attending any more games until the ticket prices are reduced.

 

[GoldenHorseshoe]

Yes mate it was on BBC midlands a few months back, local entrepreneurs complaining about a lack of skilled workforce. I dont say these things flippantly like i know some do. Wolverhampton (in this report) was shown to have highest % unskilled.

My family, still in the area, have spoken of the complete decimation of the apprentice and other training schemes that made the midlands such an envied place. They claim that the wage structure demanded for apprentices killed it off. At the time we considered ourselves to be almost slaves, (youthful OTT), but we has some fun, gained a fantastic education, a real education which starts after you leave school. And learned how to accept $$$$ taking, which by he sound of it is sadly missing today.

 

[Deleted member 3604]

Well I won't be attending any more games until the ticket prices are reduced.

Do you go and watch one of the lower league teams like Kidderminster instead or do they charge too much as well ?

 

[Deleted member 3604]

My family, still in the area, have spoken of the complete decimation of the apprentice and other training schemes that made the midlands such an envied place. They claim that the wage structure demanded for apprentices killed it off. At the time we considered ourselves to be almost slaves, (youthful OTT), but we has some fun, gained a fantastic education, a real education which starts after you leave school. And learned how to accept $$$$ taking, which by he sound of it is sadly missing today.

We don't make anything any more so there is nothing to train people up to do.