Everton - new ground

[Parkfieldswolf]

Everton’s planned 500 million pound new stadium has been approved. It’s going to be a 52,000 capacity but how can a club like Everton who have won nothing in the last 25 years afford such a venture and still invest in the team? I know our stadium upgrade has hit the buffers but I wouldn’t imagine us getting much more than 35,000 a game so will Everton fill their new ground? It amazes me how much money is available to the established teams yet we get hit with UEFA sanctions for a small breach of FFP.

 

[Hot Fuss]

Everton’s planned 500 million pound new stadium has been approved. It’s going to be a 52,000 capacity but how can a club like Everton who have won nothing in the last 25 years afford such a venture and still invest in the team? I know our stadium upgrade has hit the buffers but I wouldn’t imagine us getting much more than 35,000 a game so will Everton fill their new ground? It amazes me how much money is available to the established teams yet we get hit with UEFA sanctions for a small breach of FFP.

Ground development has nothing to do with FFP.

Everton have a huge fan base and Goodison is always sold out.

Everton have been in the greed league since it started.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make to be honest.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Everton’s planned 500 million pound new stadium has been approved. It’s going to be a 52,000 capacity but how can a club like Everton who have won nothing in the last 25 years afford such a venture and still invest in the team? I know our stadium upgrade has hit the buffers but I wouldn’t imagine us getting much more than 35,000 a game so will Everton fill their new ground? It amazes me how much money is available to the established teams yet we get hit with UEFA sanctions for a small breach of FFP.

FFP has nothing to do with ground redevelopment.

Its a complete vanity project for their owners (who obviously can afford to do it). It will take Everton 20 years plus to re-coup those costs.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I don't get the hype about new stadiums to be honest.

I know it increases revenue sources, but those extra revenues just go on paying for the ground. What did moving to the Emirates do for Arsenal? They went from the top team in England to 6th-10th now, regularly behind a team like Leicester.

Spurs won't be able to spend big either now, not that they did anyway, and I'm sure Everton will be the same.

I get aspects of Molineux need improving, but I'd much rather have it like it is and a competitive team instead of upgrading/moving and being nowhere.

It may be more appealing if the Premier League's TV revenue dropped significantly. Right now, ticket revenue isn't essential for any club really, and it's unlikely to change moving forward.

Also, I accept that it makes clubs more appealing to players, but I don't think it makes much of a difference. The weekly wage and the sporting ambition will be the main things to the vast majority.

So, if Everton want to spend £500m on a new bowl ground, good for them. I don't think it's going to transform them, like we will no doubt be told constantly in the next few years. It will just mean the normal fans are going to get priced out even more and they won't be spending as much in the transfer market IMO.

 

[topcat99]

Ground development has nothing to do with FFP.

Everton have a huge fan base and Goodison is always sold out.

Everton have been in the greed league since it started.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make to be honest.

Plus the owners could get a business loan to repay over 50+ years.

Sounds simple enough to me too (financially)

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I don't get the hype about new stadiums to be honest.

I know it increases revenue sources, but those extra revenues just go on paying for the ground. What did moving to the Emirates do for Arsenal? They went from the top team in England to 6th-10th now, regularly behind a team like Leicester.

Spurs won't be able to spend big either now, not that they did anyway, and I'm sure Everton will be the same.

I get aspects of Molineux need improving, but I'd much rather have it like it is and a competitive team instead of upgrading/moving and being nowhere.

It may be more appealing if the Premier League's TV revenue dropped significantly. Right now, ticket revenue isn't essential for any club really, and it's unlikely to change moving forward.

Also, I accept that it makes clubs more appealing to players, but I don't think it makes much of a difference. The weekly wage and the sporting ambition will be the main things to the vast majority.

So, if Everton want to spend £500m on a new bowl ground, good for them. I don't think it's going to transform them. It will just mean the normal fans are going to get priced out even more and they won't be spending as much in the transfer market IMO.

Agree with all of this. I actually think it will slow down their growth on the pitch, not just because of financial constraints but the extra Oompf the home team gets from playing at a "proper" ground. The two north london clubs have suffered because of it. The only team who have benefited have been West Ham due to covid, it actually helps them not playing in front of the most toxic fans in the land.

 

[Parkfieldswolf]

Ground development has nothing to do with FFP.

Everton have a huge fan base and Goodison is always sold out.

Everton have been in the greed league since it started.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make to be honest.

Just trying to get my head round how a club albeit a bigger club than us admittedly can spend that much on a new ground. The last thing I can recall Everton winning was the FA cup back in ‘95 and I can’t even recall them being in Europe in recent years. As others have said I think it could turn into a huge own goal for them and I’m glad we’re being sensible about our upgrade.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Plus the owners could get a business loan to repay over 50+ years.

Sounds simple enough to me too (financially)

Bang on......too frequently fans, from all clubs, seldom look at the club as a business, whether it be transfers, loans, upgrades, equity etc.
I’m no Mark Carney but this stuff is basic business 101.

 

[lostwolf]

Their new ground is one of the few that could be an improvement on the old. It'll be a shame to see the gorgeous, historic Leitch stands lost but the location of the new ground is absolutely superb: right on the docks/Mersey with views across, closer to town pubs/shops and walkable from Moorfield station (where fans from Chester, the Wirral, Kirkby etc can disembark), and you'd expect it to be top quality at that price. They'll have no problem filling it with proper Everton fans.

I don't mind Everton, I have a mate from Bootle originally who's a top lad, and it's a great away day. Their songs are a bit **** though so I wonder what the atmosphere will be like without the Gwladys?

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Has any new ground been built with a better atmosphere? Obviously all seater killed a lot of places, but they never seem to be able to match it. That wall at Spurs looked amazing, still didn't make much noise when we were there.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Has any new ground been built with a better atmosphere? Obviously all seater killed a lot of places, but they never seem to be able to match it. That wall at Spurs looked amazing, still didn't make much noise when we were there.

not replacing a ground but great atmosphere at millenium stadium

 

[Parkfieldswolf]

not replacing a ground but great atmosphere at millenium stadium

The play off final I had that noise from those god knows what they’re called things ringing in my ears for days afterwards. Great day but strangely subdued on our way home. It was a combination of the beer wearing off and the complete shock at what we had just witnessed.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

The play off final I had that noise from those god knows what they’re called things ringing in my ears for days afterwards. Great day but strangely subdued on our way home. It was a combination of the beer wearing off and the complete shock at what we had just witnessed.

the only time since the old north bank days where I could feel the ground shaking

 

[lostwolf]

Has any new ground been built with a better atmosphere? Obviously all seater killed a lot of places, but they never seem to be able to match it. That wall at Spurs looked amazing, still didn't make much noise when we were there.

People were jizzing over the 'wall' at Spurs, as if just building something nice would replicate what they were imitating in Germany. Over there they have tickets affordable for working class fans not willing to make big sacrifices, beer in the stands, and standing areas.

Simple answer to your question: no. The Stadium of Light is okay but no way better. The list of those that are worse is almost endless: Swansea, Cardiff, Saints, Spurs, West Ham (honestly I'd give up and follow Dagenham), Arsenal (although all seater stands, changed demographics in North London and the North Bank bond scheme killed Highbury), Cov, Man City, Bolton, etc.

We've got something special at Molineux.

 

[Deleted member 4184]

They won't sell 52k per week.

 

[captain chaos]

Just out of interest how have their fans taken to having a new ground built at a different location?

 

[Peszkywolf]

I imagine a lot would be excited about it, they've been trying to move ie. Kirby. Shame for old ground & chippys & pubs. Yeah it's a good design, not too big, enclosed but like you say, new grounds are just rubbish for atmosphere.
Then again, most all seaters are rubbish for noise.

 

[lets all have a disco]

It looks nearer the city centre than goodison..... Its a bit of a ball ache getting to both grounds in Liverpool from the pubs in the city..... Might make this one with me weak bladder........ Hopefully...

 

[Minimalist]

Has any new ground been built with a better atmosphere? Obviously all seater killed a lot of places, but they never seem to be able to match it. That wall at Spurs looked amazing, still didn't make much noise when we were there.

I went away once to the Ricoh, they seemed to make a very good atmosphere, never went to Coventry’s old ground so not sure about comparison.

 

[bully9]

People were jizzing over the 'wall' at Spurs, as if just building something nice would replicate what they were imitating in Germany. Over there they have tickets affordable for working class fans not willing to make big sacrifices, beer in the stands, and standing areas.

Simple answer to your question: no. The Stadium of Light is okay but no way better. The list of those that are worse is almost endless: Swansea, Cardiff, Saints, Spurs, West Ham (honestly I'd give up and follow Dagenham), Arsenal (although all seater stands, changed demographics in North London and the North Bank bond scheme killed Highbury), Cov, Man City, Bolton, etc.

We've got something special at Molineux.

No truer words have been spoken , God i mis being in the south bank , wouldnt swop it for the world , Wolves Aye We

 

[WickedWolfie]

It looks nearer the city centre than goodison..... Its a bit of a ball ache getting to both grounds in Liverpool from the pubs in the city..... Might make this one with me weak bladder........ Hopefully...

Not exactly hard to be in a better location than Goodison (or indeed Anfield). That area makes Whitmore Reans look like paradise.

I'm guessing that the blue dippers are much happier with a city centre location, well away from the red dippers, rather than a motorway junction type location which was proposed previously.

 

[pacamac]

Has any new ground been built with a better atmosphere? Obviously all seater killed a lot of places, but they never seem to be able to match it. That wall at Spurs looked amazing, still didn't make much noise when we were there.

No because all new ground builds are primarily to increase corporate and semi corporate capacities and nothing more.

 

[pacamac]

People were jizzing over the 'wall' at Spurs, as if just building something nice would replicate what they were imitating in Germany. Over there they have tickets affordable for working class fans not willing to make big sacrifices, beer in the stands, and standing areas.

Simple answer to your question: no. The Stadium of Light is okay but no way better. The list of those that are worse is almost endless: Swansea, Cardiff, Saints, Spurs, West Ham (honestly I'd give up and follow Dagenham), Arsenal (although all seater stands, changed demographics in North London and the North Bank bond scheme killed Highbury), Cov, Man City, Bolton, etc.

We've got something special at Molineux.

Spot on

 

[pacamac]

Not exactly hard to be in a better location than Goodison (or indeed Anfield). That area makes Whitmore Reans look like paradise.

I'm guessing that the blue dippers are much happier with a city centre location, well away from the red dippers, rather than a motorway junction type location which was proposed previously.

Its not a city centre location

 

[pacamac]

It looks nearer the city centre than goodison..... Its a bit of a ball ache getting to both grounds in Liverpool from the pubs in the city..... Might make this one with me weak bladder........ Hopefully...

Its not that much closer (its not far from the old ground really).

Think people presume its closer as read its at the docks but its not albert docks etc its a fair bit north of that.

 

[Coops]

I went away once to the Ricoh, they seemed to make a very good atmosphere, never went to Coventry’s old ground so not sure about comparison.

Only been to Ricoh for wasps games at about 1/3 capacity...

At least the beer was good, purity on tap and could drink in the stands!

 

[Minimalist]

Only been to Ricoh for wasps games at about 1/3 capacity...

At least the beer was good, purity on tap and could drink in the stands!

When I went it was pretty well full.
And I think they scored a late winner or something so lent itself for them being upbeat! But they did make a noise.

 

[Wandsworth Wolf]

You could argue that there has never been a better time to finance the building of a new stadium. Interest rates are incredibly low right now which makes investment in big infrastructure projects more viable.

i quite like the look of Everton’s new ground. It has a bit of character. Unlike the monstrosity that is new White Hart Lane (the exterior).

 

[lets all have a disco]

Not exactly hard to be in a better location than Goodison (or indeed Anfield). That area makes Whitmore Reans look like paradise.

I'm guessing that the blue dippers are much happier with a city centre location, well away from the red dippers, rather than a motorway junction type location which was proposed previously.

I meant better for me... Weak bladder...... Everton n Liverpool normally means legging it from a taxi, praying it doesn't get stuck in the traffic........ Nearly as bad as the London underground........I don't mind a walk...

 

[lets all have a disco]

Its not that much closer (its not far from the old ground really).

Think people presume its closer as read its at the docks but its not albert docks etc its a fair bit north of that.

Yes it's just down from bootle..... Its about 2 mile away from goodison...

 

[WickedWolfie]

Its not that much closer (its not far from the old ground really).

Think people presume its closer as read its at the docks but its not albert docks etc its a fair bit north of that.

TY. I must admit that l fell into the category discussed in your second para. I don't know Liverpool that well.

 

[Peszkywolf]

Highfield Road had a good atmosphere, the 2 tiered West End was loud even though it only had like 3000 in it & family stand above. Away fans were next to their home end which always makes it good, like at Molineux.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I meant better for me... Weak bladder...... Everton n Liverpool normally means legging it from a taxi, praying it doesn't get stuck in the traffic........ Nearly as bad as the London underground........I don't mind a walk...

WRT the tube it's not particularly well known that there are a few (e.g. Baker Street and Stratford) stations which have loos.

 

[Peszkywolf]

Yes it's just down from bootle..... Its about 2 mile away from goodison...

Think long term it'll have it's own station/ tram as that whole area in the mile north of Liverpool city centre is being built up. This could be more of a catalyst.
Been to some grounds in Europe which are just a bowl and are very loud, get the ticket pricing right, and half decent football and the design doesn't matter.

 

[lets all have a disco]

WRT the tube it's not particularly well known that there are a few (e.g. Baker Street and Stratford) stations which have loos.

Not many..... I should learn really but ya can't do an away day without a few ales..... It get worse with age........ But definitely the worse experience yet was the buses in turin for torino away..... After all day on it..... I think I ran past the riot police about 6 times, into the park waiting for those buses to go.....

 

[Monketron]

FFP has nothing to do with ground redevelopment.

Its a complete vanity project for their owners (who obviously can afford to do it). It will take Everton 20 years plus to re-coup those costs.

I imagine, if the extra revenue brought in from this build is more than the interest payments on any loan taken out to build the stadium, then it's basically a no brainer? you're making more money per year than you were previously even counting the loan. How else would Spurs be able to build a £1billion stadium otherwise? (although their deal for NFL games helps balance that equation in their favour hugely). Obviously Covid has screwed Spurs completely in this regard but that's only a short team issue they can solve with more loans.

Also please correct me if I'm wrong, but if ground developments don't count towards FFP, but the extra revenue you make from the redevelopment does count towards FFP, you're basically finding a way to boost your FFP bottom line even if you're actually losing money in reality. Nice way to 'game' the system, providing your owner is willing to cover those losses.

 

[maws]

They won't sell 52k per week.

They will, Southampton went from 18k to 30k, West Ham from 30k to 50k Spurs 30k to 60k, Man City 30k to 50k. New grounds bring in the crowds, Everton are a big club in fan base terms, just not on the pitch since the 80’s

 

[pacamac]

Think long term it'll have it's own station/ tram as that whole area in the mile north of Liverpool city centre is being built up. This could be more of a catalyst.
Been to some grounds in Europe which are just a bowl and are very loud, get the ticket pricing right, and half decent football and the design doesn't matter.

Think long term it'll have it's own station/ tram as that whole area in the mile north of Liverpool city centre is being built up. This could be more of a catalyst.
Been to some grounds in Europe which are just a bowl and are very loud, get the ticket pricing right, and half decent football and the design doesn't matter.

Tbf even as it is it is better served by train already theres a mersey rail station (Sandhills) situated near the new ground site (away fan side too from the seating plans I saw).

Its along the Liverpool-Bootle-Southport line. Would be a short journey back into the city centre.

And for us this way if you wanted to get away quick that local train carries on to Liverpool South Parkway where Midlands bound trains from Lime Street call, so you could stay on from the ground straight through and onto a connecting train there.

You’re right about design to an extent the bricks and mortar don’t matter its the people you get in em. Sadly any new ground only really ever increases the corporate/semi corporate capacities. I’ve seen a seating plan for this and the majority of the seating in one of the ‘sides’ id corporate/package types.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I went away once to the Ricoh, they seemed to make a very good atmosphere, never went to Coventry’s old ground so not sure about comparison.

Yes to be fair Highfield Rd was crap certainly in its later days with no decent end. The Ricoh is steep and better than the average bowl.

 

[Parkfieldswolf]

Yes to be fair Highfield Rd was crap certainly in its later days with no decent end. The Ricoh is steep and better than the average bowl.

Highfield Rd was always a good away day. Half of us behind the goal the other half in the pitch side stand. Good old days. The Ricoh was just too big for Cov and it became an albatross around its neck.