Emiliano Sala

[TheRetroChief]

Nobody could predict this outcome, real sad **** happens all the time.

It was just meant to be.

Just meant to be?? Well I'm sure that will be a great comfort for the families involved.

Total and utter BS.

It could have and should have all been avoided. Frankly, that's an appalling thing to say,

 

[1972 i began]

Just a clarification

The pilot was licenced to carry a passenger. Just not for commercial gain.

He also clearly had an instrument rating as he flew an ILS approach the previous day (and commented on it on media) and was cleared into controlled airspace at one point.

Makes no difference on subject of the fee though. I just find it incredible that a 15 million record signing was transported in a single engine aircraft over the sea, at night, in winter.

Thanks for clearing that up.as it was me that mentioned it in the first place.

 

[WonderWolf]

Just meant to be?? Well I'm sure that will be a great comfort for the families involved.

Total and utter BS.

It could have and should have all been avoided. Frankly, that's an appalling thing to say,

Not really.

How could it have been avoided? Do you know the exact cause and reason for the disaster??

People are assuming all sorts.

Something obviously went wrong with the flight itself but to make assertions because McKay was involved is a bit much. Surely these sort of flights take place all the time across the channel without incident.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

This is getting predictably and sadly messy. McKay is an utter disgrace speculating pilot error without any knowledge, without his body being found no less.

 

[ShropshireLad]

Mckay did what he did on the cheap no doubt to maximise his own gains, in a transaction he had no right to be part of.
Hopefully the odious slug will get what's been coming to him.

From the interview on TV, perhaps one can conclude that he did do it to make a few quid but then he had every right to do that. Let's face it, agents are chancers to varying degrees.

I'm not saying that I like him nor do I say that he's telling the whole truth, but Cardiff have done themselves no favours. They owe money whatever the outcome is, although they'll be seeing if they can point blame somewhere where they can find recompense. Nevertheless, they morally should pay up the instalment which is due and sort out any compensation afterwards.

Nantes have every right to want the payments made but to go public so soon after the incident strikes me as being sordid regardless of their rights in the matter.

 

[arooooo]

Just curious, does anyone know if Wolves or FOSUN have a private jet at Halfpenny Green for these situations?

...you can hire a private jet with commercially licenced crew for 5K to 10K....

Tee Cee is correct. If you have say 6 or 7 people all flying to the same place, it can be cheaper to hire private than to fly commercial. And it's great fun as well as much less fussy than dealing with a commercial airport. I've been lucky enough to be on a few puddle-jumpers in my long life. Never one with just a single engine, though!!
[edit: needn't be a jet; twin props or turboprops are fine]

Now, didn't Emiliano first fly private to Nantes? I at one time had the impression that he'd flown down on the very same plane that he tried to fly back on. (Cheaper than hiring two single legs, each of which would be a round-trip for pilot and plane, is to put the pilot up in a hotel for a night or two.) That impression is wrong, I guess, because I haven't heard discussion since??

 

[Pagey]

Now, didn't Emiliano first fly private to Nantes? I at one time had the impression that he'd flown down on the very same plane that he tried to fly back on. (Cheaper than hiring two single legs, each of which would be a round-trip for pilot and plane, is to put the pilot up in a hotel for a night or two.) That impression is wrong, I guess, because I haven't heard discussion since??

I also thought he had travelled to Nantes on the same plane/pilot.

 

[ShropshireLad]

Tee Cee is correct. If you have say 6 or 7 people all flying to the same place, it can be cheaper to hire private than to fly commercial. And it's great fun as well as much less fussy than dealing with a commercial airport. I've been lucky enough to be on a few puddle-jumpers in my long life. Never one with just a single engine, though!!
[edit: needn't be a jet; twin props or turboprops are fine]

Now, didn't Emiliano first fly private to Nantes? I at one time had the impression that he'd flown down on the very same plane that he tried to fly back on. (Cheaper than hiring two single legs, each of which would be a round-trip for pilot and plane, is to put the pilot up in a hotel for a night or two.) That impression is wrong, I guess, because I haven't heard discussion since??

I also thought he had travelled to Nantes on the same plane/pilot.

I don't honestly, now chaps, but it was widely publicised that he was **** scared of the flight when coming from Nantes. Had there been any worries going then I'm sure he wouldn't have come back the same way.

However, if it was an anxiety free journey going and then he became alarmed on the same plane coming back (remember, it was before they took off that he texted his concerns) then it could well have been a problem which developed with the plane. Personally, I would have told the pilot to stop and would have got off risking a fine from the club for arriving late, had it been me.

 

[Deak77]

Still can't get over the fact that somebody thought it would be advisable to send a Premier League footballer over the Channel in the kind of plane you normally see used for crop dusting, just ridiculous.

 

[loopy lupine]

Tee Cee is correct. If you have say 6 or 7 people all flying to the same place, it can be cheaper to hire private than to fly commercial. And it's great fun as well as much less fussy than dealing with a commercial airport. I've been lucky enough to be on a few puddle-jumpers in my long life. Never one with just a single engine, though!!
[edit: needn't be a jet; twin props or turboprops are fine]

Now, didn't Emiliano first fly private to Nantes? I at one time had the impression that he'd flown down on the very same plane that he tried to fly back on. (Cheaper than hiring two single legs, each of which would be a round-trip for pilot and plane, is to put the pilot up in a hotel for a night or two.) That impression is wrong, I guess, because I haven't heard discussion since??

Wasn't the issue that there wasn't a commercial flight back to Cardiff in time for him to get to training (i.e. he would've been late in his first day) hence the reason why he had to get a private flight.

If he was funding it himself, of course, speak to your agent, let them sort it out, and you would trust them to do the business.
Obviously the insurance is the sticky point here, otherwise Cardiff would just pay the money and not worry about anything, but the way they're acting indicates that the insurance aren't going to pay up because it wasn't a correctly licensed flight, therefore Cardiff (probably rightly) are looking for someone to blame/pick up the bill.

 

[TheRetroChief]

Not really.

How could it have been avoided? Do you know the exact cause and reason for the disaster??

People are assuming all sorts.

Something obviously went wrong with the flight itself but to make assertions because McKay was involved is a bit much. Surely these sort of flights take place all the time across the channel without incident.

Why has it been done on the cheap for starters. Who puts something/someone worth £15m on some crappy plane with an unknown (to the club) pilot at night time in poor conditions? If the conditions weren't great, surely the pilot could have advised they shouldn't go? If what we are told is to be believed, then corners have been cut before was everything was put in place. Was clearly a tinpot outfit as they had no idea where it went down initially - why wasn't it tracked properly or position reported. Don't they have to have blackboxes? why was he even being rushed through at night?

My wild speculation for what its worth would be that if it suddently dropped off radar and there was no radio contact, then maybe it was struck by lightning? If it were forecast, surely you'd postpone or change course. Or maybe the conditions weren't checked properly

Doubt we will ever find out the real reason. But things don't just happen for no reason. It wasn't his time. It wasn't the pilots time. A choice or many choices have been made to create this set of circumstances that have led to this tragedy. Somewhere along the line, a decision has been made which was ill-advised or risky. Had it not been, we wouldn't be here.

No way on earth it was "Just meant to be". Things happen for a reason. Most of which can usually be prevented.

 

[TheRetroChief]

Still can't get over the fact that somebody thought it would be advisable to send a Premier League footballer over the Channel in the kind of plane you normally see used for crop dusting, just ridiculous.

This, right here, is the biggest factor for me.

 

[Golden Wanderer]

Why has it been done on the cheap for starters. Who puts something/someone worth £15m on some crappy plane with an unknown (to the club) pilot at night time in poor conditions?

I'm sure I read a quote from Warnock somewhere saying that he had flown with the same pilot on a number of occasions and said he was a 'fabulous pilot'.

 

[TheRetroChief]

I'm sure I read a quote from Warnock somewhere saying that he had flown with the same pilot on a number of occasions and said he was a 'fabulous pilot'.

Did Cardiff know the pilot and had used him before? Or did they just go on the basis of the say so of the player who may have just been trying to hurry things through (or been advised to). Cardiff should have been using their own guy/company rather than someone THEY - the 'owner' of the player are told "oh yeah, he's fine. use him all the time"

 

[WonderWolf]

Why has it been done on the cheap for starters. Who puts something/someone worth £15m on some crappy plane with an unknown (to the club) pilot at night time in poor conditions? If the conditions weren't great, surely the pilot could have advised they shouldn't go? If what we are told is to be believed, then corners have been cut before was everything was put in place. Was clearly a tinpot outfit as they had no idea where it went down initially - why wasn't it tracked properly or position reported. Don't they have to have blackboxes? why was he even being rushed through at night?

My wild speculation for what its worth would be that if it suddently dropped off radar and there was no radio contact, then maybe it was struck by lightning? If it were forecast, surely you'd postpone or change course. Or maybe the conditions weren't checked properly

Doubt we will ever find out the real reason. But things don't just happen for no reason. It wasn't his time. It wasn't the pilots time. A choice or many choices have been made to create this set of circumstances that have led to this tragedy. Somewhere along the line, a decision has been made which was ill-advised or risky. Had it not been, we wouldn't be here.

No way on earth it was "Just meant to be". Things happen for a reason. Most of which can usually be prevented.

 

[WonderWolf]

Why has it been done on the cheap for starters. Who puts something/someone worth £15m on some crappy plane with an unknown (to the club) pilot at night time in poor conditions? If the conditions weren't great, surely the pilot could have advised they shouldn't go? If what we are told is to be believed, then corners have been cut before was everything was put in place. Was clearly a tinpot outfit as they had no idea where it went down initially - why wasn't it tracked properly or position reported. Don't they have to have blackboxes? why was he even being rushed through at night?

My wild speculation for what its worth would be that if it suddently dropped off radar and there was no radio contact, then maybe it was struck by lightning? If it were forecast, surely you'd postpone or change course. Or maybe the conditions weren't checked properly

Doubt we will ever find out the real reason. But things don't just happen for no reason. It wasn't his time. It wasn't the pilots time. A choice or many choices have been made to create this set of circumstances that have led to this tragedy. Somewhere along the line, a decision has been made which was ill-advised or risky. Had it not been, we wouldn't be here.

No way on earth it was "Just meant to be". Things happen for a reason. Most of which can usually be prevented.

Quite correct, MOST things can be preventable...but not all.

Very easy to look at it with hindsight and attempt to point fingers.

The fact is a legit experienced and able pilot was hired to fly an aircraft (naturally assumed to be air-worthy) from a genuine airfield to land at another genuine airfield - McKay cannot control or be responsible for issues in areas other people are naturally experts at with regards the flight and the prevailing conditions that might impact it.

You could have a case against McKay if he'd arranged a Microlight with a quick reference user manual handed to Sala on strapping in.

Dozens of similar flights are probably made regularly without issues, if and when we discover the actual reason we MAY be able to do something as regards the future.....but then again we may not.

It could genuinely just be one of those things with no clear blame. Sudden mechanical failure, human error or an act of God are things that are naturally out of our control and unpredictable - hence clearly 'just meant to be', sad as it is.

 

[mcwolf]

Yeah, I saw the BBC News interviews with him and his son. He made some interesting points but who knows what the truth is?

It was mentioned shortly after the tragedy that Cardiff had arranged a commercial flight but Sala didn't want to take it. Who the culpable one is in that situation becomes unclear. McKay said that he was just trying to lend a helping hand, he also showed compassion towards the pilot. Of course he wouldn't say anything to incriminate himself but he certainly wanted to shift any blame away from himself and his son and in the process did say that it was just an unfortunate accident...which to be fair, sounds rational.

It also looked as if he was going to be paid for making the arrangement as he said that he wasn't searching for any payment because of what happened (or words to that effect). However, even if he did it to earn something out of it that doesn't make him culpable of any wrongdoing. As he said, when you order a taxi you expect everything is in order, you don't check the driver's licence or the MOT of the car etc.

Perhaps it was an accident borne out of an unfortunate set of circumstances. However, both Cardiff and Nantes see money as being the crucial issue and have, imo, lost the plot and have undermined their sentiments of compassion they made towards the lad's family.

Not sure if the truth will ever come out, the one question that puzzles me is who in their right mind would risk a flight like that . . a small single engine aircraft flying over water at night weather conditions not to good. summat don,t sound right given them circumstances .

 

[arooooo]

For whatever it may be worth, I have found the relevant thread on a professional pilots' discussion forum.
Here are (portions of) two select replies from the 62nd page:

post 1228:

With regard to the second, the actual direct end cause of the accident is as yet uncertain. However, there seems little doubt that at least two people should never have been in that situation in the first place. As someone posted earlier, single-engine flying is not inherently unsafe, nor is a single-engine flight at night or over water. But add them all together, and the risk factor increases. Add in icing conditions and the risk factor goes up more. Add in a (potential) lack of pilot experience of the combination of aircraft type and the conditions, and it goes off the scale. We will never know the reasons for some of the decisions that were made, but most of us know the pressure some people can exert and not everyone finds it easy to say no. This especially if you put yourself in the position of someone who possibly should not really have been where they were and didn't have the financial means to stay there. There are very few here who have had years sitting at the pointy end who haven't at some time been pressured in one way or another. There are times it takes a lot to say no, and as other incidents have unfortunately shown, there are times people have failed to say no to the person sitting next to them, and have paid the ultimate price.

post 1230:

Logic of appropriateness vs logic of consequences. It is a mistake to conclude that an undesirable circumstance is in any way the root cause of the accident. You have to separate out the incidental and resist letting your emotions slant your conclusion on the hard reason for the crash. Why the AAIB is better at this than most of us. As has been said earlier, the crash was not because the pilot only had a PPL. Lots of incompetent pilots with CPL, lots of ultra competent with PPL. Did not happen because it was single-engine, there has been no suggestion or evidence that the engine failed. Did not happen because the aircraft was not flown on an AOC - two B200's crashed here in the same week flown two crew on an AOC. Did not happen because it turned into a popsicle and fell out of the sky from forecast icing. We fly the same aircraft all winter in forecast light icing. Did not happen because it was night instead of day. Now any of those things may have influenced the precipitating incident, or the consequences afterward but at this point we just don't know. As experienced pilots or AOC managers we look at sum of probabilities, and learn to back off when the odds start to stack against us - doesn't mean that anyone that chooses to proceed is automatically doomed. And back to logic of appropriateness and now the demand for greater regulatory enforcement. Same flawed argument that if we can avoid one of the incidental circumstances we can prevent the crash next time. Time travel fantasy.

(edit) here is the link to that page: Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island - Page 62 - PPRuNe Forums

 

[TheRetroChief]

Quite correct, MOST things can be preventable...but not all.

Very easy to look at it with hindsight and attempt to point fingers.

The fact is a legit experienced and able pilot was hired to fly an aircraft (naturally assumed to be air-worthy) from a genuine airfield to land at another genuine airfield - McKay cannot control or be responsible for issues in areas other people are naturally experts at with regards the flight and the prevailing conditions that might impact it.

You could have a case against McKay if he'd arranged a Microlight with a quick reference user manual handed to Sala on strapping in.

Dozens of similar flights are probably made regularly without issues, if and when we discover the actual reason we MAY be able to do something as regards the future.....but then again we may not.

It could genuinely just be one of those things with no clear blame. Sudden mechanical failure, human error or an act of God are things that are naturally out of our control and unpredictable - hence clearly 'just meant to be', sad as it is.

If you think these arrangements are the way that things are done regularly and is all fine and above board, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[Dr Wolfenstein]

...
I'm not saying that I like him nor do I say that he's telling the whole truth, but Cardiff have done themselves no favours. They owe money whatever the outcome is, although they'll be seeing if they can point blame somewhere where they can find recompense. Nevertheless, they morally should pay up the instalment which is due and sort out any compensation afterwards.
...

But what would they be paying for? Crass & insensitive maybe, but the transaction was not complete. And if the paperwork was incomplete, as has been suggested, they wouldn't be unable to reclaim any outlay via insurance.

 

[ShropshireLad]

But what would they be paying for? Crass & insensitive maybe, but the transaction was not complete. And if the paperwork was incomplete, as has been suggested, they would be unable to reclaim any outlay via insurance.

OK, mate. I guess we'll have to see what transpires. I admit that I don't know the full facts like many and I hadn't heard that. Thanks for the info.

 

[Dr Wolfenstein]

OK, mate. I guess we'll have to see what transpires. I admit that I don't know the full facts like many and I hadn't heard that. Thanks for the info.

Agreed it's all speculation & rumour. According to teletext the pilot never finished his qualification to enable him to carry paying passengers, thus making the flight illegal. But again, as Sala never actually arrived to play a game for Cardiff are they legally bound to pay the fee?