Did Mick buy well or badly

[hindheadwolves]

There are so many threads where it is suggested that Mick has wasted a whole load of money.

Can someone with a little time list the players he bought with values when he left so we can put this one to bed? My instinct is that the values were significantly more but maybe I am just a happy clapper.

 

[OsloWolf]

www.mickmccarthymix.co.uk

 

[dazmanwolf]

Yep...Fletcher, Jarvis, Kightly, O'Hara etc....all a waste of money. They have absolutely no resale value above what we paid for them. Didn't score any goals or contribute in any way to the team did they....

 

[Bend It Like Dennison]

Yep...Fletcher, Jarvis, Kightly, O'Hara etc....all a waste of money. They have absolutely no resale value above what we paid for them. Didn't score any goals or contribute in any way to the team did they....

But then there's Hunt, Moloko, Halford, the Hoff, Shackell, Darren Ward, JVD, Johnson... the list goes on.

Id say its about 51-49% in his favour for good signings but Ive just named circa £20m worth above without even thinking about it which were shocking pieces of business.

 

[long ball man]

As a McCarthy fan but more so as a Wolves fan two observations:

1. We have NEVER sold well as a club. If Fletcher, Jarvis, Kightly etc are sold at huge profits and they are replaced with (potentially) better ones then that is a huge tick to Mick McCarthy and his buying record will look better than any other Wolves manager irrespective of the many that were poor buys. Past wolves history is littered with being too loyal to players...the 1980 League cup winning side was allowed to age, Andy Mutch being sold to Swindon for a song instead of for £1m to Spurs years earlier etc etc

2. We really must stop all these Mick threads. I have just contributed to the Mick to Forest one. I just think all they do is entrench people's views. What's more important now is looking forward.

In my case this does not mean blind loyalty to the club but unstinting questioning of where we are going as a club so the McCarthy succession planning debacle does not recur. DoF saga doesn't augur well.

 

[Tring Wolf]

In terms of transfer fees, I thought he bought very well at both the lower end of the market (Henry, Kightly, Ward, Foley, Jarvis etc) and on the two occasions he paid big money in Fletcher and Doyle.

Where his record falls down however (particularly in his Premier League purchases) is that bracket in between where the fees were between £1.5 and £3m. I acknowledge that he may have been hindered in terms of signings by our relatively low wage structure but too many of those signings either weren't good enough (Halford, Maierhofer etc), haven't consistently made our first team (Milijas, Mouyokolo, Guedioura etc) or haven't shown the form we thought they were capable of on a consistent basis (Johnson, Hunt etc).

Overall though (and to me, this is indicative of Mick's reign overall), the good far outweighs the bad. So taking into account the fact virtually all of his signings have a resale value far in excess of what we paid for them (even those that didn't work out, we still recouped the majority of our original outlays on), I would say he generally bought well. A 7 out of 10 record for me.

 

[Tring Wolf]

In terms of transfer fees, I thought he bought very well at both the lower end of the market (Henry, Kightly, Ward, Foley, Jarvis etc) and on the two occasions he paid big money in Fletcher and Doyle.

Where his record falls down however (particularly in his Premier League purchases) is that bracket in between where the fees were between £1.5 and £3m. I acknowledge that he may have been hindered in terms of signings by our relatively low wage structure but too many of those signings either weren't good enough (Halford, Maierhofer etc), haven't consistently made our first team (Milijas, Mouyokolo, Guedioura etc) or haven't shown the form we thought they were capable of on a consistent basis (Johnson, Hunt etc).

Overall though (and to me, this is indicative of Mick's reign as a whole), the good far outweighs the bad. So taking into account the fact virtually all of his signings have a resale value far in excess of what we paid for them (even those that didn't work out, we still recouped the majority of our original outlays on), I would say he generally bought well. A 7 out of 10 record for me.

 

[Redditch Wolves]

I honestly do not give a flying $$$$ anymore. He has gone let's move on it's boring!!

 

[Waggy's Boots]

I honestly do not give a flying $$$$ anymore. He has gone let's move on it's boring!!

Perhaps the most sensible post of the summer....move on folks.....

 

[OsloWolf]

I honestly do not give a flying $$$$ anymore. He has gone let's move on it's boring!!

Thank you!

 

[we8wba]

Spent 40m in the premier league alone in 2 and 1/2 years.

would we recoup 40m if sold all assets signed by mick in this period (counting your hoffs and halfords) i think only one get a decent fee would be fletcher then the rest at best 3-4m

 

[Mugwump]

Yes, Mick bought well and he bought badly.

 

[Brizzlewolf]

Yes, Mick bought well and he bought badly.

This. Move on......

 

[Bankswolf II]

Mick bought just as well as Dave Jones did and do you know what Dave Jones is? Ancient history

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Next week on Mick McCarthymix season:

- Did Mick merely talk the talk, or did he proceed to walk the walk?
- We hear Mick's thoughts on his ideal 5 dinner party attendees.
- Mark Davies: Enigma or Idiot?
- We relive the 5-1 victory over Nottingham Forest, evaluating Mick's touchline manner.

 

[OoohRobbieRobbie]

Both. Some turned out to be good astute signings, some turned out to be poor, and then there's the ones who didn't meet expectations or failed to impress - that category he cannot be blamed for. Two examples: Jelle van Damme, Roger Johnson. There is no WAY anyone can blame Mick for the way's these two turned out. We learned JVD was a pussy and had to go back home all the way across the other side of the world to Belgium. No one could have known that was going to happen, Mick thought he had the left back spot sorted, a rare occurrence. People were happy with the singing from the onset. Roger Johnson - the vast majority wanted him and were happy we'd signed him. Mick cannot be accountable for the off the field events or dip in form. We were happy with the signing and happy with how he started.

Those signings could have turned out totally different. Mick cannot be accountable for every poor outcome. Mouyokolo? Could have turned out differently had it not been for injuries.

 

[Phitsanulok (Poole) Wolf]

Who?

 

[bridgnorthwolf]

He bought very well indeed.

Yes, ultimately he bought too many bad players to be ideal, but every manager does that to some extent. Compare him to Turner, McGhee, Lee, Jones, Hoddle and to a lesser extent Taylor and he bought a hell of a lot more quality and a hell of a lot less rubbish than those!

 

[reanswolf]

There were a few duds like Ward, and Hunt, tho I said from outset he was not that good but people would not have it.

He has an eye for talent - Kites, Jarvis, Henry, Ward, Stears, Foley - all nobodies who ultimately performed in the prem. And did he only buy duds because his first choices would not come often due to wages? Diame, Lallana, Clyne, Dann, James McCarthy, Steve Sidwell, and even Andy Carroll before he became a target for Liverpool. Possibly also Huddlestone. If these players (and undoubtedly a number of others) had been obtained by Moxey as MM wanted, then we may well still be a premier club. He wanted to progress, the club did not or could not. Mainly wages for me, and thats why we ended up with his 2nd, 3rd, or 4th choices.

Anyway, onward and upward.

 

[WasStefan]

On reflection the wage structure could have been upped to a top level of mid £50k p/week?

Surely this would have made us much more competitive?

 

[Craddockinho]

Well, really well, then badly, then well for a little bit, then badly, then very badly.

 

[Mugwump]

In terms of transfer fees, I thought he bought very well at both the lower end of the market (Henry, Kightly, Ward, Foley, Jarvis etc) and on the two occasions he paid big money in Fletcher and Doyle.

Where his record falls down however (particularly in his Premier League purchases) is that bracket in between where the fees were between £1.5 and £3m. I acknowledge that he may have been hindered in terms of signings by our relatively low wage structure but too many of those signings either weren't good enough (Halford, Maierhofer etc), haven't consistently made our first team (Milijas, Mouyokolo, Guedioura etc) or haven't shown the form we thought they were capable of on a consistent basis (Johnson, Hunt etc).

Overall though (and to me, this is indicative of Mick's reign overall), the good far outweighs the bad. So taking into account the fact virtually all of his signings have a resale value far in excess of what we paid for them (even those that didn't work out, we still recouped the majority of our original outlays on), I would say he generally bought well. A 7 out of 10 record for me.

You are usually a very sensible poster tring, but you have blotted your copybook with the comment about The Hoff not being good enough. I expect a retraction and an apology!

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

I'd say he made more good signings than bad ones, you have to remember that some players were brought for the championship and performed excellently inthe championship.

Where he did poorly was signing players for around £1.5-3m, however you have to wonder how many of those players were his first choice. I'd bet not many and as a result most turned into squad fillers.

Of his PL signings that we'd all agree were definately his first choice; Doyle, Fletch, JOH, Hunt, Johnson & Frimpong. Only Johnson was a bad signing and some may argue Hunt.

I still think he was let down by the board in transfer market, we weren't competitive enough when it came to signing players who would vastly improve the team. Instead we had to settle for players who may improve the team slightly but not enough, hence why it seemed like we waste alot.

Hopefully Mick will release a book or something and we'll finally know if the board let him down or not.

 

[we8wba]

you can use the orginal question to be pro mick or con mick

reality of it is

mick succes rate was probably 50/50, for every fletcher theres a hoff, for every kightly theres a hammill and so on.....

reality of it is.... is 50% (roughly) a good strike rate on transfers

imo NO

 

[Mugwump]

you can use the orginal question to be pro mick or con mick

reality of it is

mick succes rate was probably 50/50, for every fletcher theres a hoff, for every kightly theres a hammill and so on.....

reality of it is.... is 50% (roughly) a good strike rate on transfers

imo NO

Grrrrrr. Hoff is an outstanding footballer. On a par with fletch easy.

 

[reanswolf]

you can use the orginal question to be pro mick or con mick

reality of it is

mick succes rate was probably 50/50, for every fletcher theres a hoff, for every kightly theres a hammill and so on.....

reality of it is.... is 50% (roughly) a good strike rate on transfers

imo NO

True but what would the success rate have been if we hadnt have been the second or third lowest wage payers? We will never know of course mate.

 

[OsloWolf]

We will never know and we really don't care.

Now I'm gonna go start a thread about Dave Jones' wardrobe.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Bloody hell can we not forget this guy? Let's move on FFS.

 

[North West Wanderer]

Why would such a man who has done so much be forgotten?

 

[OsloWolf]

Why don't some in here just start a dedicated Mick McCarthy message board?

 

[dazmanwolf]

Mick did no better or worse than any previous manager. Can't see why we need to disect every part of his tenure. He has gone. Time for us to move on and embrace a new era under STS.

 

[FLEET WOLF]

Mick did no better or worse than any previous manager. Can't see why we need to disect every part of his tenure. He has gone. Time for us to move on and embrace a new era under STS.

You beat me to it. Well said.

 

[Wulve5]

Every manager buys good and bad even fergie so pointless thread.

 

[reanswolf]

I just love all these people moaning about still talking about MM, who have actually themselves chosen to go to the actual post about Mick McCarthy, and then chosen to contribute to the thread. !! Classic.

 

[crocos]

Mick did no better or worse than any previous manager. Can't see why we need to disect every part of his tenure. He has gone. Time for us to move on and embrace a new era under STS.

While I agree with the need to move on, I've just gotta say that for someone of my age [43], Mick did a darned sight better than any other manager we've had in my lifetime, Barnwell & McGarry apart.

Just remind me again how many years it was that we were wallowing around in the Chumpionship? By my count, not far off 25 years.

That's not opinion really, that's fact based on time spent winning the Chump / in the Prem under Mick.

 

[GoldenHorseshoe]

There were a few duds like Ward, and Hunt, tho I said from outset he was not that good but people would not have it.

He has an eye for talent - Kites, Jarvis, Henry, Ward, Stears, Foley - all nobodies who ultimately performed in the prem. And did he only buy duds because his first choices would not come often due to wages? Diame, Lallana, Clyne, Dann, James McCarthy, Steve Sidwell, and even Andy Carroll before he became a target for Liverpool. Possibly also Huddlestone. If these players (and undoubtedly a number of others) had been obtained by Moxey as MM wanted, then we may well still be a premier club. He wanted to progress, the club did not or could not. Mainly wages for me, and thats why we ended up with his 2nd, 3rd, or 4th choices.

Anyway, onward and upward.

Are you sure it was his eye for those, especially the early ones? I'm sure it was Taff Evans, I read he never even saw Kites, just went on Taff's say so.

 

[reanswolf]

Are you sure it was his eye for those, especially the early ones? I'm sure it was Taff Evans, I read he never even saw Kites, just went on Taff's say so.

I am sure all managers have scouts, but I would also have thought the manager ultimately decides whether to acquire someone.

 

[MK Panther]

He bought so well we were nearly relegated two seasons running and then finally made it last season. Quite frankly I felt he and Clippy did not enhance the reputation of too many players and positively harmed too many. It is over lets get on!

 

[beefy395]

There were a few duds like Ward, and Hunt, tho I said from outset he was not that good but people would not have it.

He has an eye for talent - Kites, Jarvis, Henry, Ward, Stears, Foley - all nobodies who ultimately performed in the prem. And did he only buy duds because his first choices would not come often due to wages? Diame, Lallana, Clyne, Dann, James McCarthy, Steve Sidwell, and even Andy Carroll before he became a target for Liverpool. Possibly also Huddlestone. If these players (and undoubtedly a number of others) had been obtained by Moxey as MM wanted, then we may well still be a premier club. He wanted to progress, the club did not or could not. Mainly wages for me, and thats why we ended up with his 2nd, 3rd, or 4th choices.

Anyway, onward and upward.

He brought on the whole championship standard players Foley ward stears Edwards none of them good enough for the prem as for Doyle well good riddance he was poor when we signed him and will be better off with out him

 

[luckyjim]

Why don't some in here just start a dedicated Mick McCarthy message board?

As I suggested before, they should go further and start up a football team after him and managed by him....FC McCarthy of Mick....