Claiming PIP

[Hereford Wolf]

Has anybody got any hints or tips on how to make this process easier?
Capita sent me an appointment in Cardiff. I rang and told them that it was too far to travel and could they do a home appointment.
They arranged a home appointment for me but they did not attend. (They said that they rang me on the morning but they didn't).
I rang them again and asked for another appointment. That has just come through today......and its in Cardiff!
I feel this is just a bit of a game for them and they are wanting the application to fail. They have offices in Hereford and Worcester that the assessment can take place in, but they seem to want to make everything difficult.
I will ring them again on Monday....

 

[RJs Tankard]

They're absolute scumbags.

If you look through my post history, you'll see a very long rant about how my sister was treated years ago. I'll keep it brief here though to save you the hassle.

They failed to turn up twice for her assessment three or four years ago. On the third attempt, they turned up 45 minutes late.

After the assessment, she was awarded ZERO points because the assessor lied through her teeth. After much fighting and appealing (a year to be precise), she was given maximum points and the highest award.

She had a review a month ago because he PIP is almost due for renewal. They DWP / Crapita are fully aware that my sister needs afternoon appointments. So, unsurprisingly, they sent out a letter for 9am. I phoned to complain for her - and they stated that a new appointment would be sent out in the afternoon. Two days later, a new appointment letter arrives - confirming an 11am appointment. I had to phone to complain again - to which Crapita / DWP said that her appointment could not be changed because it could only be changed once. I threatened legal action for disability discrimination and made it clear that I was also deeply suspicious that their behaviour was deliberate. Immediately, they did a U-turn and offered an afternoon appointment.

Did you fill the claim form in yourself, or did you have it filled in by a specialist? The wording on the form is absolutely crucial.

When it comes to the assessment, it's VITAL that you record it covertly (I used an app on my phone that recorded the assessment and then hid the phone in my sisters flat - this was crucial evidence that we had to get my sisters decision overturned AND get the assessor into deep trouble). The assessors twist what you say. If you say "I can only walk 50 metres to my local shop" (which is worth maximum points in the mobility descriptor), the assessor will highly likely write "walks to local shop" (which will get zero points). Be very careful with what you say - less is more. If you give too much detail, you give them words to play with.

It's disgraceful that it's like this, but sadly, that's how it is. We now have a system that is designed to fail people - rather than a system that is there to support people.

Also, there are "key words" that add extra "weight" to what you say - for example, "fatigue" seems to have more weight to it than "tiredness". "Stabbing pain" seems to have more weight to it then "severe pain".

Never say you have good days and bad days. They'll just hear "good days" - and they'll write about what you can do, rather than what you can't do. Make sure you say that every day is a bad day - but symptoms can be milder on "slightly better" days.

Sadly, you will need to be suspicious of everything they ask. Take time to answer and think carefully about what they're asking - are they asking in a way that is unclear or in a way where, when you answer, they could twist what you say. Don't fall for the "nicey-nicey", "friendly" manner of the assessor - the first assessor that lied through her teeth in my sisters assessment seemed really nice and friendly - but the content of her report was full of lies. I'm convinced it's a deliberate tactic to get people to feel comfortable and "open up" more - particularly if they know claimants are nervous or suffer with anxiety and not very talkative. If someone is anxious, they won't talk much - and if they don't talk much, it makes it harder to twist what is being said - so its in their interests to make claimants feel relaxed and / or that the claimant can trust them (big mistake).

Don't get me wrong, there are some very genuine assessors too - one of my friends have a very nice assessor that was 100% genuine and documented everything that my friend said 100% accurately and fairly.

However, from my sisters experience of two assessments (one for PIP and one for ESA), she had two rogue assessors.

Record everything and be 100% honest - but only focus on what you cannot do. Do not tell them anything that you can do. They will find a way to use it against you.

Also be aware that there is an "informal observations" section for assessors - which claimants are unaware of. They look for things such as handshake grip strength, mood, etc. If you're claiming for arthritis but give a firm handshake, they'll use it against you. If you claim for depression but crack a tongue-in-cheek bit of wit, they'll say you're not depressed.

Finally, remember, you can submit any medical evidence at any stage - even after the assessment has been carried out. The more you have, the better it is - so dig out absolutely every bit of paperwork you have that confirms any problems you have or any diagnoses. It all has to be considered by law. Finally, if you don't have any aids, but you would benefit from some, then apply for them from your local council / social care team. Certain aids are worth X amount of points - so apply for them. When they come from social care, they have far more weight than if you buy them. Quite often, when aids are bought, the DWP / Crapita disregard them (on the basis that anyone can buy a wheelchair and claim they need to use it - whereas social care don't give out wheelchairs unless they've carried out an assessment or had medical evidence from an NHS specialist confirming that you need one).

If you record everything as evidence, and you're 100% honest and genuine, you WILL be awarded PIP - even if the assessor lies and you have to fight it out at appeal armed with evidence (your recording). It takes time when the system / assessors / Capita / DWP fail people - but the honest ones that are prepared to fight will eventually win. Sadly, some honest ones give up because they don't want the hassle (or die because they're so ill and run out of time). The frauds get found out easily - and so they should.

They arranged a home appointment for me but they did not attend. (They said that they rang me on the morning but they didn't).

They are notorious for this - and it happens far too often to be a "mistake". Capita blame the DWP - and then the DWP blame Capita. Neither of them ever accept any responsibility. A cynic might say its deliberate......

I feel this is just a bit of a game for them and they are wanting the application to fail.

This government wanted / wants to slash the welfare benefit bill. Again, a cynic might say its deliberate......

They have offices in Hereford and Worcester that the assessment can take place in, but they seem to want to make everything difficult.

Must be coincidental. I'm sure they wouldn't do it on purpose.......

 

[Netherton Wolf]

I can echo RJT report, my BIL has MS requested afternoon apt, came at 9am 1st question can u make a cup of tea? answer yes as long as there’s not much water in kettle as I can’t pick it up, and I have to drink it there as I can’t carry it anywhere,so this Young slip of a girl said “so it that a yes or a no” ??? 2nd question - can u walk 20metres, answer yes but it takes me about 30minutes, again young slip of girl says so is that yes or no , he scored zero points, appealed,still scored zero, so he gets no money at all, can’t claim sickness benefit or PIP and no one would employ him, our system absolutely STINKS

 

[Hereford Wolf]

Thank you very much for that. Very interesting and very informative.
I was getting more and more suspicious about the way they make everything so difficult so what you have said does not surprise me.

I will let you know how I get on.

 

[waggys left foot]

Hereford just grit your teeth and dont give up -remember this whole process is designed to save money not to support and help you.

So be precise in your answers ,remember to describe your worst days and gather all medical supporting evidence inc paying your gp to write on your behalf.

Ideally find a welfare rights adviser to help you and be prepared to appeal whatever the points you are given at the start.

Rjt and others on here will always help .

 

[RJs Tankard]

Another vital tip - as soon as you've had your assessment, send a Subject Access Request to the DWP requesting a copy of the assessors report (I have a template I can PM to you if it helps), the name of the assessor that carried out your assessment, their GMC number, and their qualification.

By law, the DWP have to send you this information within 40 days.

This is important because when the DWP write back to you with their decision, you only have 30 days to ask for a mandatory reconsideration - so if you leave it until then to request the report to see what omissions, errors or outright lies were in the report, the deadline will have passed by the time you get the report.

It will also give you time to look through the report before you even get your decision back from the DWP - and from that, you can usually get an idea of whether you'll be awarded PIP or not because the assessor gives their opinions of the scores you'll get - and its quite unusual for the DWP decision makers to go against the assessors recommendations. The assessors give the medical opinions - the decision makers just apply the law (they will usually only overrule a medical opinion if they spot a contradiction in the report, an error of law or notice a flaw in the medical assessors report - such as the assessor saying that someone can balance fine - but their medical evidence says they need a wheelchair).

Its important to know the assessors qualifications, GMC number and name so that you can view their details on the GMC website. The law states that assessors have to have been qualified for three years - but some assessors are employed anyway despite not having that experience (the one that did my sisters report had been qualified for less two years!). They also have a habit of sending out Physios to assess people with mental health patients - and mental health specialists to assess people with Arthritis and other musculo-skeletal problems. Anyone with any common sense would send Physios out to assess bone/muscle issues - and mental health specialists out to assess mental health claimants - but Capita / DWP don't appear to use any common sense (I wonder why!).

They also use people with Occupational Health backgrounds to carry out assessments - people that, in my opinion, are far too under-qualified with little, if any, specialist skills or expertise and almost certainly no background in hospitals, surgeries or specialist departments.

These are all things that can be pointed out at Mandatory Reconsideration and / or Appeal stage should a decision not go in your favour. PIP advice websites suggest that tribunals overturn a lot of decisions made by Occupational Health assessors.

The best assessors seem to be paramedics, qualified doctors and qualified musculo-skeletal and mental health specialists. Occupational Health assessors are slightly more medically qualified than the office cleaner.......

 

[Thank you Sir Jack]

RJT. A brilliant contribution, thank you for taking the time to write your replies which contained some fantastic tips. Whilst not directly affected myself, I have a close relative who has been on the receiving end of terrible treatment with regard to PIP.
You are a real gent.
Good luck to Hereford.

 

[RJs Tankard]

RJT. A brilliant contribution, thank you for taking the time to write your replies which contained some fantastic tips. Whilst not directly affected myself, I have a close relative who has been on the receiving end of terrible treatment with regard to PIP.
You are a real gent.
Good luck to Hereford.

No problem at all mate. This disgusting, cruel system and blatant vicious attack on the vulnerable is barbaric - and it's disgraceful that people that are very ill and / or disabled have to worry about the stress of PIP assessments.

If my pointers can give even the slightest bit of help towards people to beating this appalling system, that was clearly designed to save the government money rather than support ill / disabled people, then I'm extremely happy. Its despicable that people can have years and years worth, and pile after pile, of medical evidence - yet have that dismissed by a tick-box questionnaire, and / or an assessor that specialises in mental health out of their depth by assessing someone with a spinal disability, and / or, worse still, blatant lies or twisting of words from so-called assessors or decision makers.

However, I also don't want to worry people either - there are some genuine assessors and decision makers out there too. A friend of mine was diagnosed with a serious condition last year - and she was awarded PIP quickly and fairly - and both the assessor and decision maker were 100% factual and accurate in their report.

 

[Thank you Sir Jack]

No problem at all mate. This disgusting, cruel system and blatant vicious attack on the vulnerable is barbaric - and it's disgraceful that people that are very ill and / or disabled have to worry about the stress of PIP assessments.

If my pointers can give even the slightest bit of help towards people to beating this appalling system, that was clearly designed to save the government money rather than support ill / disabled people, then I'm extremely happy. Its despicable that people can have years and years worth, and pile after pile, of medical evidence - yet have that dismissed by a tick-box questionnaire, and / or an assessor that specialises in mental health out of their depth by assessing someone with a spinal disability, and / or, worse still, blatant lies or twisting of words from so-called assessors or decision makers.

However, I also don't want to worry people either - there are some genuine assessors and decision makers out there too. A friend of mine was diagnosed with a serious condition last year - and she was awarded PIP quickly and fairly - and both the assessor and decision maker were 100% factual and accurate in their report.

Very thoughtful RJT. Like a lot in life, the debacle that is PIP, won't be on people's radar unless it affects them directly. Once you appreciate that the whole driver behind PIP is to save money, then the process and its operation has to fit in with that. Imagine an assessor going back to the office and being asked, "how many claimants have you seen today"
"Four"
"What was the outcome?"
"All of them awarded maximum points"
"You're fired"
My relative has a learning disorder which limits his ability to earn a decent wage, social interactions and ability to life independently. This is far less easy to detect than a physical issue and thus more difficult to assess.

 

[RJs Tankard]

Very thoughtful RJT. Like a lot in life, the debacle that is PIP, won't be on people's radar unless it affects them directly. Once you appreciate that the whole driver behind PIP is to save money, then the process and its operation has to fit in with that. Imagine an assessor going back to the office and being asked, "how many claimants have you seen today"
"Four"
"What was the outcome?"
"All of them awarded maximum points"
"You're fired"
My relative has a learning disorder which limits his ability to earn a decent wage, social interactions and ability to life independently. This is far less easy to detect than a physical issue and thus more difficult to assess.

There are whistle blowers on Youtube and disability forums that make suggestions that things like this go on. There are also allegations that assessors are paid bonuses of £30 for writing "good" reports (ie, "good" for the "system" - not the claimant") too - so if that is true, it is easy to see why some assessors may tell lies if their sole aim is to make as much money as possible from their job.

It also makes you wonder why these assessors that are GPs, Nurses, Physio's, etc are working in a relatively low paid job rather than working full-time in GP surgeries or hospitals where the money is far better. If they were any good, surely they would be working for better money within the NHS or privately.

Just 5 minutes on Google will reveal horror story after horror story about people that have suffered as a result of PIP and / or ESA assessments. Sadly, some didn't even survive to tell their stories (the figures for deaths after people have died after being incorrectly found for work is horrific).

It's barbaric - yet Tory voters turn a blind eye to it - whilst those same people claim to be disgusted at terrorist attacks, etc.

People turn a blind eye because they think they'll never need to use the benefits system because they have savings or their own businesses, etc. They also probably think of benefits claimants as being the dregs of society because they see too many Channel 4 and BBC documentaries - the documentaries that only ever show the minority of people that abuse the system. Documentaries that pull in viewers because they're controversial and get people talking. How often do the BBC and Channel 4 show the genuinely ill that are struggling? Very rarely - if at all. How often to the BBC and Channel 4 show cases where people have been genuinely ill and claimed benefits - only to be denied them because of a failing system? Never.

How often does ITV or BBC news, or daily newspapers, report stories of people abusing the benefit system? Frequently.
How often does ITV or BBC news, or daily newspapers, report deaths caused as a result of the benefit system incorrectly finding them fit for work? Never.

Even the financially comfortable and / or fit and healthy people that think they'll never need the benefit system can suffer a sudden life-changing illness or disability that forces them to need the benefit system overnight. All it takes is a sudden heart attack, stroke, car crash or limb being crushed or trapped in a machine at work - and its life changing instantly. Savings can soon dry up when you need to break into them after your illness or injury has cost you your job overnight - especially when your illness or disability becomes one that requires ongoing expense (hospital car parking, aids and adaptations, bandages) - and all of a sudden, that benefits system you no longer needed is now essential to your life.

Got terminal cancer? Lost both arms through a tragic work accident? Lost a leg in a car accident? Who cares. You're a scrounger cos Channel 4 and the Tories say so.

 

[Thank you Sir Jack]

There are whistle blowers on Youtube and disability forums that make suggestions that things like this go on. There are also allegations that assessors are paid bonuses of £30 for writing "good" reports (ie, "good" for the "system" - not the claimant") too - so if that is true, it is easy to see why some assessors may tell lies if their sole aim is to make as much money as possible from their job.

It also makes you wonder why these assessors that are GPs, Nurses, Physio's, etc are working in a relatively low paid job rather than working full-time in GP surgeries or hospitals where the money is far better. If they were any good, surely they would be working for better money within the NHS or privately.

Just 5 minutes on Google will reveal horror story after horror story about people that have suffered as a result of PIP and / or ESA assessments. Sadly, some didn't even survive to tell their stories (the figures for deaths after people have died after being incorrectly found for work is horrific).

It's barbaric - yet Tory voters turn a blind eye to it - whilst those same people claim to be disgusted at terrorist attacks, etc.

People turn a blind eye because they think they'll never need to use the benefits system because they have savings or their own businesses, etc. They also probably think of benefits claimants as being the dregs of society because they see too many Channel 4 and BBC documentaries - the documentaries that only ever show the minority of people that abuse the system. Documentaries that pull in viewers because they're controversial and get people talking. How often do the BBC and Channel 4 show the genuinely ill that are struggling? Very rarely - if at all. How often to the BBC and Channel 4 show cases where people have been genuinely ill and claimed benefits - only to be denied them because of a failing system? Never.

How often does ITV or BBC news, or daily newspapers, report stories of people abusing the benefit system? Frequently.
How often does ITV or BBC news, or daily newspapers, report deaths caused as a result of the benefit system incorrectly finding them fit for work? Never.

Even the financially comfortable and / or fit and healthy people that think they'll never need the benefit system can suffer a sudden life-changing illness or disability that forces them to need the benefit system overnight. All it takes is a sudden heart attack, stroke, car crash or limb being crushed or trapped in a machine at work - and its life changing instantly. Savings can soon dry up when you need to break into them after your illness or injury has cost you your job overnight - especially when your illness or disability becomes one that requires ongoing expense (hospital car parking, aids and adaptations, bandages) - and all of a sudden, that benefits system you no longer needed is now essential to your life.

Got terminal cancer? Lost both arms through a tragic work accident? Lost a leg in a car accident? Who cares. You're a scrounger cos Channel 4 and the Tories say so.

The Daily Mail loves a juicy "scrounger cheats system" story and yes they do exist, but the hardship caused to people to whom life has dealt a bad hand, warrants little or no coverage from them. I just hope that a disabling injury doesn't happen to one of their writers.
Life isn't always fair and the benefits system should try and even things up to a reasonable degree.

 

[RJs Tankard]

The Daily Mail loves a juicy "scrounger cheats system" story and yes they do exist, but the hardship caused to people to whom life has dealt a bad hand, warrants little or no coverage from them. I just hope that a disabling injury doesn't happen to one of their writers.
Life isn't always fair and the benefits system should try and even things up to a reasonable degree.

I agree.

Sadly, there are too many abusers of the system - and as the previous DLA system was pretty much a self-certifying benefit with little background done on claimants, it was fairly easy to abuse - and it did desperately need an overhaul.

However, it's now gone too far the other way - it the overhaul has conveniently come about at the same time that the government wanted to cut costs - so the disabled were easy targets.

All it needed was a common sense approach. There was no need for compulsory assessments for all claimants. It would have been relatively easy to weed out the abusers from the genuine by having a system that worked on medical evidence. It's pretty obvious that someone that has a pile of paperwork two inches thick confirming that they've had had 5 operations on their spine, an MRI scan showing a metal plate confirming that they can't bend over at all and remains under the weekly care of numerous consultants is genuine - whereas someone that has a few weeks off work here and there, complains of regular headaches but only takes paracetamol and declines to have brain scans is likely to be quite suspicious.

In cases where a disease or disability has come about quickly or where people don't have much medical evidence because the NHS has been slow in diagnosing, etc, THEN an assessment could be used where its hard to tell if a case could be genuine or not.

The current "one-size-fits-all" tickbox system policy fails people.

 

[Deleted member 4456]

They're absolute scumbags.

If you look through my post history, you'll see a very long rant about how my sister was treated years ago. I'll keep it brief here though to save you the hassle.

They failed to turn up twice for her assessment three or four years ago. On the third attempt, they turned up 45 minutes late.

After the assessment, she was awarded ZERO points because the assessor lied through her teeth. After much fighting and appealing (a year to be precise), she was given maximum points and the highest award.

She had a review a month ago because he PIP is almost due for renewal. They DWP / Crapita are fully aware that my sister needs afternoon appointments. So, unsurprisingly, they sent out a letter for 9am. I phoned to complain for her - and they stated that a new appointment would be sent out in the afternoon. Two days later, a new appointment letter arrives - confirming an 11am appointment. I had to phone to complain again - to which Crapita / DWP said that her appointment could not be changed because it could only be changed once. I threatened legal action for disability discrimination and made it clear that I was also deeply suspicious that their behaviour was deliberate. Immediately, they did a U-turn and offered an afternoon appointment.

Did you fill the claim form in yourself, or did you have it filled in by a specialist? The wording on the form is absolutely crucial.

When it comes to the assessment, it's VITAL that you record it covertly (I used an app on my phone that recorded the assessment and then hid the phone in my sisters flat - this was crucial evidence that we had to get my sisters decision overturned AND get the assessor into deep trouble). The assessors twist what you say. If you say "I can only walk 50 metres to my local shop" (which is worth maximum points in the mobility descriptor), the assessor will highly likely write "walks to local shop" (which will get zero points). Be very careful with what you say - less is more. If you give too much detail, you give them words to play with.

It's disgraceful that it's like this, but sadly, that's how it is. We now have a system that is designed to fail people - rather than a system that is there to support people.

Also, there are "key words" that add extra "weight" to what you say - for example, "fatigue" seems to have more weight to it than "tiredness". "Stabbing pain" seems to have more weight to it then "severe pain".

Never say you have good days and bad days. They'll just hear "good days" - and they'll write about what you can do, rather than what you can't do. Make sure you say that every day is a bad day - but symptoms can be milder on "slightly better" days.

Sadly, you will need to be suspicious of everything they ask. Take time to answer and think carefully about what they're asking - are they asking in a way that is unclear or in a way where, when you answer, they could twist what you say. Don't fall for the "nicey-nicey", "friendly" manner of the assessor - the first assessor that lied through her teeth in my sisters assessment seemed really nice and friendly - but the content of her report was full of lies. I'm convinced it's a deliberate tactic to get people to feel comfortable and "open up" more - particularly if they know claimants are nervous or suffer with anxiety and not very talkative. If someone is anxious, they won't talk much - and if they don't talk much, it makes it harder to twist what is being said - so its in their interests to make claimants feel relaxed and / or that the claimant can trust them (big mistake).

Don't get me wrong, there are some very genuine assessors too - one of my friends have a very nice assessor that was 100% genuine and documented everything that my friend said 100% accurately and fairly.

However, from my sisters experience of two assessments (one for PIP and one for ESA), she had two rogue assessors.

Record everything and be 100% honest - but only focus on what you cannot do. Do not tell them anything that you can do. They will find a way to use it against you.

Also be aware that there is an "informal observations" section for assessors - which claimants are unaware of. They look for things such as handshake grip strength, mood, etc. If you're claiming for arthritis but give a firm handshake, they'll use it against you. If you claim for depression but crack a tongue-in-cheek bit of wit, they'll say you're not depressed.

Finally, remember, you can submit any medical evidence at any stage - even after the assessment has been carried out. The more you have, the better it is - so dig out absolutely every bit of paperwork you have that confirms any problems you have or any diagnoses. It all has to be considered by law. Finally, if you don't have any aids, but you would benefit from some, then apply for them from your local council / social care team. Certain aids are worth X amount of points - so apply for them. When they come from social care, they have far more weight than if you buy them. Quite often, when aids are bought, the DWP / Crapita disregard them (on the basis that anyone can buy a wheelchair and claim they need to use it - whereas social care don't give out wheelchairs unless they've carried out an assessment or had medical evidence from an NHS specialist confirming that you need one).

If you record everything as evidence, and you're 100% honest and genuine, you WILL be awarded PIP - even if the assessor lies and you have to fight it out at appeal armed with evidence (your recording). It takes time when the system / assessors / Capita / DWP fail people - but the honest ones that are prepared to fight will eventually win. Sadly, some honest ones give up because they don't want the hassle (or die because they're so ill and run out of time). The frauds get found out easily - and so they should.



They are notorious for this - and it happens far too often to be a "mistake". Capita blame the DWP - and then the DWP blame Capita. Neither of them ever accept any responsibility. A cynic might say its deliberate......



This government wanted / wants to slash the welfare benefit bill. Again, a cynic might say its deliberate......



Must be coincidental. I'm sure they wouldn't do it on purpose.......

The person I talked about in the thread you mentioned there passed away a couple of months ago. When a few of us went to clear out his flat (one of the guys at my group had his spare key), we found various letters from the DWP, including one regarding his failure to turn up at a scheduled medical - this despite the fact that it would've been well known to them that he wasn't able to leave the house. As I've said before, I feel very fortunate that I don't have to deal with them on a regular basis; they'd drive me mad.

 

[RJs Tankard]

The person I talked about in the thread you mentioned there passed away a couple of months ago. When a few of us went to clear out his flat (one of the guys at my group had his spare key), we found various letters from the DWP, including one regarding his failure to turn up at a scheduled medical - this despite the fact that it would've been well known to them that he wasn't able to leave the house. As I've said before, I feel very fortunate that I don't have to deal with them on a regular basis; they'd drive me mad.

That is absolutely disgraceful - but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. There are so many horror stories like this online. They really are a scumbag organisation with targets and legislation set by a scumbag government.

 

[waggys left foot]

I see Mcvey has been caught out lying to Parliament over the National Audit office investigation into Universal Credit.

Tories think voters will always buy the narrative of the benefit scrounger ignoring the far bigger problem of tax scrounging.And until we say no that isnt how it is things wont change.

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

My mother had to claim PiP very recently, she has MS. After hearing all the stories that people are unsuccessful and they want your application to fail we expected the worst, however her neurologist said that if the assessor knows what shes doing then she would be ok.
Had to go to Newtown for her appointment which was ok as its only 45 mins drive and my Dad was able to take her and wheelchair her in.
The assessor was very good and understanding and didn't make her do exercises that she obviously wouldn't of been able to do etc . My parents thought the assessment went ok but still weren't sure what the outcome would be having heard all the negative stories.
Fortunately she heard yesterday that was successful, so in the end all ok but not very nice for people to go through.
The best advice is to plan everything, know what you're going to say and have it all written down its very easy to forget things in the moment that could be really important. Though a lot of is probably down to who assess you, you've got be well prepared

 

[Netherton Wolf]

My mother had to claim PiP very recently, she has MS. After hearing all the stories that people are unsuccessful and they want your application to fail we expected the worst, however her neurologist said that if the assessor knows what shes doing then she would be ok.
Had to go to Newtown for her appointment which was ok as its only 45 mins drive and my Dad was able to take her and wheelchair her in.
The assessor was very good and understanding and didn't make her do exercises that she obviously wouldn't of been able to do etc . My parents thought the assessment went ok but still weren't sure what the outcome would be having heard all the negative stories.
Fortunately she heard yesterday that was successful, so in the end all ok but not very nice for people to go through.
The best advice is to plan everything, know what you're going to say and have it all written down its very easy to forget things in the moment that could be really important. Though a lot of is probably down to who assess you, you've got be well prepared

Glad to hear of a success story, as i said earlier my BIL has PPMS but fortunately isnt fully wheelchair bound yet, hes had 2 applications turned down

 

[RJs Tankard]

A lot of it is down to the wording on forms unfortunately.

The DWP and assessors look for certain key words such as "fatigue" rather than tiredness, "stabbing pain" rather than "pain" and petty pedantic stuff like that.

I highly recommend these two websites:

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk - this website has a forum that offers advice, and they also have a pack that you can buy which details exactly how to fill in your forms, has sample documents, and it also tells you what assessors look for, etc.

The advice on how to fill in the forms is worth the money alone because it describes those key words to put in - and those words can often be the difference between being successful or unsuccessful. I can't remember how much their pack - but £13 rings a bell - and the pack is HUGE. Its all sent over almost instantly via email.

https://www.fightback4justice.co.uk- There's also these guys too. They offer a form filling service - and the woman that runs the website is a trained solicitor, has worked with the Citizens Advice Bureau as a disability benefits specialist and has also attended DWP training courses to see how the system works. Their success rate is VERY high - but the only downside is that they usually request a £50 donation to cover their expenses (they are a non-profit organisation though). The £50 is well worth it because of their success rates - but its understandably unaffordable up front to people that are already struggling financially because of their disability or ill health - and therefore inability to work. They are quite understanding though and will more than likely lower that fee to those that are really desperate for help.

Both of these have provided amazing support and help for my sister - particularly Fightback4Justice.

 

[The White Mouse]

It also makes you wonder why these assessors that are GPs, Nurses, Physio's, etc are working in a relatively low paid job rather than working full-time in GP surgeries or hospitals where the money is far better. If they were any good, surely they would be working for better money within the NHS or privately.

In no way defending this system at all, but this part simply isnt true.

They actually pay very well and are quite an attractive option to nurses/physios etc.

this is a quote from a job advertised for a recruitment agency:


Qualified Nurse, Occupational Therapist, Physiotherapist or Paramedic

2 years post qualification experience

Valid PIN

To apply for this position please email your CV via the link provided

Job Types: Full-time, Permanent

Salary: £34,000.00 to £38,000.00 /year

the average salary for a band 5 nurse/paramedic etc is around 24k with 2 years experience, which is all they ask for. To hit the bottom rate for this job, 34k, you'd have to have several years NHS service and experience to get anywhere near

 

[RJs Tankard]

In no way defending this system at all, but this part simply isnt true.

They actually pay very well and are quite an attractive option to nurses/physios etc.

this is a quote from a job advertised for a recruitment agency:


Qualified Nurse, Occupational Therapist, Physiotherapist or Paramedic

2 years post qualification experience

Valid PIN

To apply for this position please email your CV via the link provided

Job Types: Full-time, Permanent

Salary: £34,000.00 to £38,000.00 /year

the average salary for a band 5 nurse/paramedic etc is around 24k with 2 years experience, which is all they ask for. To hit the bottom rate for this job, 34k, you'd have to have several years NHS service and experience to get anywhere near

You're referring to a full time job though.

Some of these assessors work on a "per report" basis rather than full time.

 

[The White Mouse]

still pays a lot better than the NHS!

 

[Hereford Wolf]

Just an update. Thanks to Rjs Tankard's first post and advice, I contacted them again and told them I could not go to Cardiff as was originally explained to them. They then threatened me with a 'no-show'. I then threatened them with legal action for disability discrimination. Mrs HW spoke to their complaints section at length and they have finally come back with a home appointment on the 16th July.

Whilst this has took a lot of time and effort it has been worthwhile, and one again, thank you all for your input.

I will keep you updated.

 

[Thank you Sir Jack]

Just an update. Thanks to Rjs Tankard's first post and advice, I contacted them again and told them I could not go to Cardiff as was originally explained to them. They then threatened me with a 'no-show'. I then threatened them with legal action for disability discrimination. Mrs HW spoke to their complaints section at length and they have finally come back with a home appointment on the 16th July.

Whilst this has took a lot of time and effort it has been worthwhile, and one again, thank you all for your input.

I will keep you updated.

Good luck and well done to RJT.

 

[jackdusty]

Reference the form filling,i used the Citizens Advice who had someone who knew how to word the answers.Still took him an hour so that tells you how hard it could be for us mere mortals!

 

[derbyrameater]

Reference the form filling,i used the Citizens Advice who had someone who knew how to word the answers.Still took him an hour so that tells you how hard it could be for us mere mortals!

You're spot on there Dusty, they rely on us answering in a human way, yes I can walk a few yards on a good day..interpretation by the robots, Can walkj unaided.

There is a way to answer the questions honestly without tying yourself in knots or lying but as you say it is not easy and it's designed that way, my experience came from needing some help for mum a few years ago (before it got even worse) a brilliant Social worker came around and went through the form translating our answers into the satisfactory robot language.

The frustrating thing is when you see the results it is so obvious and never forgotten unless you get dementia and are on your own then you really are screwed.

She got moved when they started clamping down, replaced by a robot. A good woman screwed by the system which employed her.

 

[waggys left foot]

For those on ESA -Dwp may owe you money but wont pay you everything they should.


Disability claimants owed £340m after DWP blunder, say MPs


Mcveigh caves in .


Government will pay arrears to thousands of benefit claimants

 

[Hereford Wolf]

So...I sent my two FOI requests to Capita on the day of my interview.

They have responded to my request regarding my interviewers qualifications which is fine. At the same time they have sent me another e-mail regarding the other FOI request I sent stating that they had already answered it in my first e-mail. They either think I requested the first lot of information twice, or they have got confused regarding my requests and ignored my other FOI request (the more important one as it was about the Healthcare Professional’s report and notes from my interview).

Deliberate? Incompetent? Who knows. Just more stress and more correspondence backwards and forth regarding something that should be very straightforward.

The longer it goes on, the more astonished I am that this organisation can get away with being so pathetically bad at everything they do.

 

[RJs Tankard]

So...I sent my two FOI requests to Capita on the day of my interview.

They have responded to my request regarding my interviewers qualifications which is fine. At the same time they have sent me another e-mail regarding the other FOI request I sent stating that they had already answered it in my first e-mail. They either think I requested the first lot of information twice, or they have got confused regarding my requests and ignored my other FOI request (the more important one as it was about the Healthcare Professional’s report and notes from my interview).

Deliberate? Incompetent? Who knows. Just more stress and more correspondence backwards and forth regarding something that should be very straightforward.

The longer it goes on, the more astonished I am that this organisation can get away with being so pathetically bad at everything they do.

Its deliberate. This happens far too many times for it to be incompetence - and this exact same thing happened with my sister this month.

They also sent a form to fill in asking what information I wanted from my sisters records - despite stating clearly what I wanted, and despite saying "do not send a form to fill in - it is not a legal requirement".

It's just delay tactics all the time.

I had to threaten the DWP with legal action last week because they had missed their 30-day Subject Access Request deadline by two weeks. Surprise surprise, it landed on the doorstep three days later.

It seems the only way to get the DWP to actually do the things they're supposed to do by law is by reporting them to the Information Commissioners Office and / or threaten legal action. If you don't keep them on their toes by applying pressure, laws and deadlines seem to mean zilch to the DWP.

Its been just shy of two months now since my sister had her assessment - and she's still not had a decision. Although thankfully, on this occasion, through looking through the medical report that the DWP did eventually send, it looks as though she will remain on both the Care and Mobility components that she currently gets based on the scoring and reasoning that the assessor gave. The decision maker could overturn that - but if they do, they'll have some serious explaining to do.

This system is an absolute disgrace - and to think that some people on here, particularly one member, support this system!

EDIT: Just another example of how shambolic they are - they wrote a letter confirming receipt of our Subject Access Request FIVE weeks after I sent it to them. They then said they had 30 days to respond. So not only did they acknowledge the request AFTER the 30 day deadline had already passed (which is a breach of the Data Protection Act), they then also seemed to think that their 30 day deadline started from when they acknowledged our request. That would suggest that they thought they had at least 67 days to process the Subject Access Request (which, again, is another breach of the Data Protection Act) - or they were deliberately trying it on!

You couldn't make this **** up. Its unreal! You would think that a company the size of the DWP would know their laws - particularly when it's a government-run organisation - you know, the same government that create these laws in the first place.

 

[derbyrameater]

CRAPITA is useful as a firewall, nothing to do with the Esther McVeighs (always good to put a name to those faceless parasites, Mcveigh who has to resign recently because of comments she made about those on benefits then May puts her back a few months later to carry out the dirty work on behalf of all the tory voters on MM and elsewhere) DWP causing the problem, Oh no!

They have a symbiotic arrangement to **** with people IMO.

 

[The White Mouse]

This system is an absolute disgrace - and to think that some people on here, particularly one member, support this system!

who is supporting it? i haven't seen a single post supporting it?

 

[RJs Tankard]

who is supporting it? i haven't seen a single post supporting it?

Edgmond

 

[The White Mouse]

must either have been deleted or i'm on his blocked list for some reason, but i cant see anything from him

 

[RJs Tankard]

must either have been deleted or i'm on his blocked list for some reason, but i cant see anything from him

In the Political section. They may have been deleted by the mods to be honest - a lot of them got quite heated at times.

 

[The White Mouse]

haha ok, i haven't bothered with that forum, worth a look?

 

[RJs Tankard]

haha ok, i haven't bothered with that forum, worth a look?

Not really. Every post turns into a daily brexit countdown or Corbyn is evil thread.

 

[derbyrameater]

Not really. Every post turns into a daily brexit countdown or Corbyn is evil thread.

They are being challenged now and that's the important factor.

 

[Hereford Wolf]

E-mail from Capita today regarding my other FOI request:-

Personal information about you is treated as exempt information under section 40(1) of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) 2000. This is because you are normally entitled to a copy of the personal information that the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) holds about you under the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) instead. By handling your request under the provisions of GDPR, DWP are protecting your rights over your own personal information. This is an absolute exemption and does not require a public interest test. Requests for personal information are dealt with by Data Protection Officers (DPO) within DWP. I have therefore passed your request to the appropriate DPO. The timescale for handling requests under the DPA is 30 calendar days from receipt, although we do aim to respond as soon as possible. If you have any queries about this letter please contact us quoting the reference number.

 

[RJs Tankard]

E-mail from Capita today regarding my other FOI request:-

Personal information about you is treated as exempt information under section 40(1) of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) 2000. This is because you are normally entitled to a copy of the personal information that the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) holds about you under the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) instead. By handling your request under the provisions of GDPR, DWP are protecting your rights over your own personal information. This is an absolute exemption and does not require a public interest test. Requests for personal information are dealt with by Data Protection Officers (DPO) within DWP. I have therefore passed your request to the appropriate DPO. The timescale for handling requests under the DPA is 30 calendar days from receipt, although we do aim to respond as soon as possible. If you have any queries about this letter please contact us quoting the reference number.

Standard template response from the DWP that.

I had a chuckle at the bit I've highlighted in bold. They're nearly always late in sending info out.

 

[waggys left foot]

Switch from DLA to PIP was designed to save 20percent of DLA spending whilst giving a little bit extra to those in greatest need.

An aside- Strife predicted next year as up to 3 million claimants switch to Universal Credit.

Paul Gray: On universal credit, ministers were wrong to ignore us | Patrick Butler

 

[RJs Tankard]

Switch from DLA to PIP was designed to save 20percent of DLA spending whilst giving a little bit extra to those in greatest need.

The problem is, that "greatest need" is determined by pre-printed questions and tick boxes and often assessed by assessors that are not experts in the claimants health condition (for example, the DWP / Crapita can and do send Physiotherapists out to assess people with mental health problems - and they send Psychiatric nurses out to assess people with bone and muscle disorders. Nice one!)

PIP has quite a few questions / descriptors related to lower limb / mobility issues.
PIP also has quite a few questions / descriptors related to mental health issues (and those were only added after the DWP / Government were forced to include them).

Unfortunately, if you have upper limb problems, or problems like Angina or Kidney failure, there are barely any questions / descriptors that allow a claimant to gain enough points to be awarded PIP due to the way the questions are written. PIP is also heavily criticised for its lack of consideration for conditions that are fluctuating - for example, someone with severe lung conditions may have severe difficulty getting about on cold damp winter days due to severe breathlessness - but they could be very comfortable and have a really good day on a mild, dry, Spring / Autumn day. There is not one descriptor in the whole of the PIP form that covers that kind of fluctuation. It is simply based on "more often than not" during a seven day week.

No matter how the DWP or the government dress it up, PIP was designed with one thing in mind - to cut government spending to start chipping away at the national debt.

If the government had genuinely wanted to get rid of the "Benefits Street" style Channel 4 documentary stereotypical "scroungers", then they could have easily weeded those out - without affecting any of the genuinely ill or disabled at all.

DLA was, more or less, self-certifying with very little backgrounds checks carried out on a claimant. Therefore, it opened up the system to abuse.

All the government had to do was keep the DLA system - but bring in a simple but effective change where new claimants, and old claimants that were due for DLA renewal, had to provide good quality medical evidence to prove that they were genuinely ill. By good-quality medical evidence, I mean hospital-confirmed diagnoses by MRI scans, or Psychiatric reports, etc. People cannot fake MRI scan results. If they've got a crumbling spine, they cannot fake that - so an MRI scan is more than adequate evidence. If they've got kidney failure, they cannot fake that - therefore, all that is required as evidence is proof that they require dialysis.

Instead, they brought in a tick box system with vague questions where someone with severe kidney failure can be turned down for PIP because they are able to put their trousers on unaided, can walk 200 metres unaided and can lift their arms above their head. These are actual scoring descriptors on the PIP form. It doesn't take into consideration that the claimant spends 3 hours, 5 days out of every 7 day week, stuck in a hospital bed having dialysis. It also doesn't take into consideration that the claimant has to travel one hour each way to and from the hospital, with the assistance of a carer because they are not strong enough to walk and cannot drive due to their health.

The whole idea of PIP is not to get "free money" for fags and booze as Channel 4 and co like to portray on TV - it is to help pay towards the expenses that a severely ill or disabled person faces each day - such as taxis to and from the hospital, or to pay for essential modifications around the home to help the claimant get about (wheelchair width doors, or ramps fitting), or help pay for a carer to come in and prepare their medication and to check they have eaten, drank and been able to dress. Anyone that has ever had to arrange for a carer for a family member will know that PIP doesn't even cover the cost of a carer - so in some cases, a PIP claimant can still have more disability-related outgoing expenses than they get in disability-related income from benefits.

It's an appalling system that was poorly though out (well, from a claimants point of view it was. From the government's view, it was genius because it prevented them having to pay out to someone that is seriously ill but can do basic tasks....).