CB pairing

[Brockmoorwolf]

Id have kilman and dawson but id have kilman on the right, and have the experience of dawson next to bueno/ran.

 

[floydstreet]

Collins and Kilman.

I think people are slightly overreacting to the Dawson signing. I think he's a good option because we've occasionally gone to a three, he has experience and we needed one for depth.

However, as I said on another thread, under Lage and Lopetegui this season Collins and Kilman are good.

As a partnership, they conceded 6 goals in 7 games under Lage until Collins was sent off against City and Lage was then sacked.
Under Lopetegui, they've conceded 6 goals in 5 games.

So, we concede 12 goals in 12 games with those two under competent coaches.

When you take out Man City, it's even more impressive. Take them out and we've conceded 7 goals in 10 games with Collins and Kilman under Lage/Lopetegui.

That's very good.

Once again, the issue is the Steve Davis period which alters the stats significantly but there's enough evidence to suggest he was useless so it shouldn't count at all.

When you do discount Davis' time in charge, it should be said we actually have a very good defence.

Basically, we don't need Dawson for the XI but he's a good squad option to have for when we go to a three or any injuries/drop in form.

However, I do think Collins and Kilman get a bit of a rough deal on here when you break it down.

Totally agree
Dawson cover and experienced head that’s cool injuries happen.

But they aren’t our biggest issue and equally couldnand should be our future

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Would anyone go to back 3? Like 3-5-2?

Collins Dawson Kilman could be a rock solid defence to be fair also adds much needed height

We could go full on Pulis put Kilman Lwb and Toti in at CB against more physical teams these players know the positions sometimes we have to show the flexibility

 

[Perton Wolf]

Has to be Dawson and another once he's fully up to speed. It's naive to think a backline so devoid of leadership and experience as Semedo, Collins, Kilman and Bueno is will keep us up this season. Semedo is clearly the most experienced there but he is mentally fragile and not a leader on the pitch. When Lopetegui talks about improving the balance of the squad and the team, he's not just referring to purely physical or technical attributes but rather other things too. Leadership is one of those.

 

[Perton Wolf]

Totally agree
Dawson cover and experienced head that’s cool injuries happen.

But they aren’t our biggest issue and equally couldnand should be our future

Well, it is an issue. We're 17th and while our defence isn't as weak as our attack in terms of statistics, it certainly isn't good. Collins and Kilman inspire little confidence as a pairing, both require a more experienced player next to them. The question should be which one keeps their place alongside that player.

 

[TheConcourse]

Would anyone go to back 3? Like 3-5-2?

Collins Dawson Kilman could be a rock solid defence to be fair

Almost certainly if it gives Semedo and RAN more freedom.

You’d lose Moutinho/Lemina in CM, but Neves would be able to get higher.

We’re basically playing a back 3 with Neves atm anyway.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Almost certainly if it gives Semedo and RAN more freedom.

You’d lose Moutinho/Lemina in CM, but Neves would be able to get higher.

We’re basically playing a back 3 with Neves atm anyway.

That’s what I’m thinking Neves is so deep may as well go back to what we know best and get us sage up the table

 

[S G Wolves]

Collins should be one of the first names on our team sheet.

Cannot be dropped on current form.

 

[JohnB]

Who knows - 2 CBs or 3 CBs? Or like Liverpool game start with 2 and then move to 3 during first half.

Expecting fluidity and changes until end Feb when side becomes settled.

 

[SmiffyWolf]

Would anyone go to back 3? Like 3-5-2?

Collins Dawson Kilman could be a rock solid defence to be fair

I would not. Football is about entertaining and for me that's why we are in our current mess . Players with the past few managers playing so deep abd setting up to be solid .

I would be all out attack we ship 3 but can score 4 mentality. If people say we don't have the caliber of player for that . Then not sure how these players play for their countries .

We abd other teams are so focused on keep it tight for 65 minutes and then bring the subs on . Would love the stats to see how many teams make subs between 60/70 minutes. That's because they have supposed plans to nick a goal and win .

So why not tear that **** up and make the 70 minutes sub when 3-0 up to close game out ? . Because that's what people abd I say managers know and a guide of how to play .

England in Pakistan. Hadn't won a test in years . Went and teed off won 3-0 as Pakistan were not expecting it . Yes it might not work every time but you are causing the problems not worrying about the opposition. The same applies in any sport imo .

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I would not. Football is about entertaining and for me that's why we are in our current mess . Players with the past few managers playing so deep abd setting up to be solid .

I would be all out attack we ship 3 but can score 4 mentality. If people say we don't have the caliber of player for that . Then not sure how these players play for their countries .

We abd other teams are so focused on keep it tight for 65 minutes and then bring the subs on . Would love the stats to see how many teams make subs between 60/70 minutes. That's because they have supposed plans to nick a goal and win .

So why not tear that **** up and make the 70 minutes sub when 3-0 up to close game out ? . Because that's what people abd I say managers know and a guide of how to play .

England in Pakistan. Hadn't won a test in years . Went and teed off won 3-0 as Pakistan were not expecting it . Yes it might not work every time but you are causing the problems not worrying about the opposition. The same applies in any sport imo .

When was the last time we scored 3 goals in the league and what formation did we play??

Unless we overhaul the squad the majority of these players aren’t used to or capable of playing with a back 4 hence why were down the table. Blame Lage all you want but we don’t have good enough players to do it. That’s just matter of opinion with a back 3 we are a solid outfit yes boring but if it keeps us up who cares

 

[JadeWolf]

Collins and Dawson

 

[Milijas]

I think against the top teams we may see all 3.
Ask yourself this.. Kilman, Dawson, Collins
Or.. Saiss, Coady, Boly?
Maybe just maybe we have improved..

(excluding Boly's first season where I genuinely believe (and stats agree) he was one of the best CBs in the league).

Lower end teams a 2 of Collins and Kilman/Dawson

Feel far more comfortable with this lot playing a back 4.

And would take Toti as back up over emm.. we never had back up.. Vallejo? All day.

The futures bright, the futures Orange or as we know it 'Old Gold'

Now how about a goalscorer?!

 

[Ian]

Would anyone go to back 3? Like 3-5-2?

Collins Dawson Kilman could be a rock solid defence to be fair

For the rest of this season.... Yes.

Sa
Collins, Dawson, Kilman
Semedo, Lemino, Neves, Nunes, Bueno( RAN)
Sarabia, Cunha.

 

[SmiffyWolf]

When was the last time we scored 3 goals in the league and what formation did we play??

Unless we overhaul the squad the majority of these players aren’t used to or capable of playing with a back 4 hence why were down the table. Blame Lage all you want but we don’t have good enough players to do it. That’s just matter of opinion with a back 3 we are a solid outfit yes boring but if it keeps us up who cares

Like you say opinions but we play with a back 3 anyway as Neves is normally on the toes of our goalkeeper. That's where the issues lie for me get him further up the pitch and it drags the other midfielders forward to create abd attack .

Matter of opinions but I wouldn't be playing a back 3 unless away at the top 3 possibly. But even then if we go a goal down the other team may as well get deck chairs abd an ice cream van on to start handing out ice cream to the opposition defence .

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I don't get this. We've almost broken ourselves to move away from a 5, it's like getting off booze and then deciding to reward yourself with a trip to the pub. Also I'm baffled by the Neves comments, he plays as a CDM, exactly where you'd expect. When we have the ball deep, the fullbacks push up, the CHs pull out wide and he sits in the middle to direct the play, that's literally how the system works.

 

[SoCal_Wolf]

Fair enough but all the individual performances were poor in that period.

The facts are we conceded around 1 goal a game under Lage and around 1 goal a game under Lopetegui. We conceded two goals a game under Davis.

That's a massive difference and as I said it is a small sample size but to me it's obvious that the Davis period is the anomaly because he's a National League coach and the other two aren't.

Anyway, keeping it purely to Lopetegui, I don't think Collins or Kilman deserve to lose their place. If they mess up fair enough but you should keep those playing well in the XI in my opinion.

Remember, too, that Collins was out for three of those games after his flying kick on Grealish.

 

[SoCal_Wolf]

If we need a higher line and some speed, then I would play Collins and Kilman. If we need some veteran steel and nous, then I would go with the CB in form to pair with Dawson--right now, that's Collins. For solidity, then I would play the back three with Dawson-Collins-Kilman (not sure who would be better in the middle).

 

[Norwegian Wolf]

Collins is very similar to Stearman. Often out of position, doesn’t get tight enough on his man but then comes up with last minute interventions to cover up the cracks. Kilman is much better positionally and should be the guy alongside Dawson in a 2.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Wouldn't change it right now as defensively we have been pretty good for the most part. May see a back three against certain sides perhaps.

 

[WalsallWolf]

Worth taking into account Dawson made a solid full back at Sandwell.

 

[BCWolf]

Would anyone go to back 3? Like 3-5-2?

Collins Dawson Kilman could be a rock solid defence to be fair

100%

We're in a relegation battle, needing to win around seven games to stop-up, and with an attack that will be lucky to average a goal a game for the remainder of the season. A 3-4-3/3-5-2 would make us hard to break down and give is a fighting chance that just one goal can win us a game.

This isn't the time for expansive, entertaining football (even if we had the talent, which we don't).

 

[Beastier]

The main thing for me is that we now have competition for places.

I also wouldn't overlook the recent emergence of Totti who is now pushing Kilman (was it a co-incidence the Kilman had his best game in ages against West Ham when his place was under genuine threat).

 

[Glow69]

I think he'll go 3 at the back against Liverpool.

 

[sillytuna]

Don't forget dawson chips in with set piece goals.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Don't forget dawson chips in with set piece goals.

We dow put it in the mixer do we...

 

[Mugwump]

Collins and Kilman.

I think people are slightly overreacting to the Dawson signing. I think he's a good option because we've occasionally gone to a three, he has experience and we needed one for depth.

However, as I said on another thread, under Lage and Lopetegui this season Collins and Kilman are good.

As a partnership, they conceded 6 goals in 7 games under Lage until Collins was sent off against City and Lage was then sacked.
Under Lopetegui, they've conceded 6 goals in 5 games.

So, we concede 12 goals in 12 games with those two under competent coaches.

When you take out Man City, it's even more impressive. Take them out and we've conceded 7 goals in 10 games with Collins and Kilman under Lage/Lopetegui.

That's very good.

Once again, the issue is the Steve Davis period which alters the stats significantly but there's enough evidence to suggest he was useless so it shouldn't count at all.

When you do discount Davis' time in charge, it should be said we actually have a very good defence.

Basically, we don't need Dawson for the XI but he's a good squad option to have for when we go to a three or any injuries/drop in form.

However, I do think Collins and Kilman get a bit of a rough deal on here when you break it down.

Lage competent. Thats a good one.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

100%

We're in a relegation battle, needing to win around seven games to stop-up, and with an attack that will be lucky to average a goal a game for the remainder of the season. A 3-4-3/3-5-2 would make us hard to break down and give is a fighting chance that just one goal can win us a game.

This isn't the time for expansive, entertaining football (even if we had the talent, which we don't).

Stick to what we know…

 

[DJLWolf]

Collins is very similar to Stearman. Often out of position, doesn’t get tight enough on his man but then comes up with last minute interventions to cover up the cracks. Kilman is much better positionally and should be the guy alongside Dawson in a 2.

Completely agree.

Re Collins, people see him do things like clear the header off the line against city which understandably deserved a lot of praise...... but they then forget about the fact that minutes earlier he dived in on grealish needlessly in the box which should have been an absolutely blatant penalty for City.How it wasn't given I'll never know.

The lad has quality but he's rash and he's raw.Kilman generally doesn't do that sort of thing.We are in a relegation battle.We need calm heads.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

When people go on about great tackles and last ditch clearances I'm always reminded of the quote from the great Paulo Maldini (a man I think we can all agree knew a little about defending) "If I have to make a tackle then I've already made a mistake"

 

[Oldwolf]

Worth taking into account Dawson made a solid full back at Sandwell.

Totally agree with this idea. I can see him playing Full back and helping the 2 younger guys out in the middle. He was also useful in getting the odd goal from a corner.

 

[Huyton W88lvo]

Sa
Collins Dawson Kilman
Lemina Gomes Neves MatheusN. Bueno
Sarabia Cunha

 

[GuzzWolf]

Rotation...Make the use of what you have and spread the love. (Experience)

 

[arctic rime]

Dawson will start

 

[DJLWolf]

I think this discussion has been resolved ladies and gents.

Collins is a promising young player but kilman is currently a far better ball playing centre half and simply needed an experienced centre back next to him. We can't afford to have Collins learning on the job any longer, as I and others have said on countless occasions

Come on you wolves

 

[Minimalist]

I think this discussion has been resolved ladies and gents.

Collins is a promising young player but kilman is currently a far better ball playing centre half and simply needed an experienced centre back next to him. We can't afford to have Collins learning on the job any longer, as I and others have said on countless occasions

Come on you wolves

I think Collins and killman are at a pretty similar level.
It’s the fact Dawson naturally fits in on the right side that means he replaces Collins.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I think Collins and killman are at a pretty similar level.
It’s the fact Dawson naturally fits in on the right side that means he replaces Collins.

I think Kilman is and has been a lot better. I don't think Collins positioning is very good and it effects everyone around him. People call it aggression, I call it lack of awareness. There is a real David Luiz element to him.