Captain

[Royal wolf]

I keep hearing Kilman is not captain material which I’ll be honest watching him play with his personality traits he doesn’t scream leader to me.

However, how important is the armband? Being captain doesn’t change anything really, it doesn’t give them anymore power on the pitch other than speaking to the ref. If Lemina was captain yesterday what changes? We still lose that game. My point is you can still be a leader without wearing the armband so why is its importance so overstated?

 

[Evthewolf]

Fair point really. All I would say, is that players look to the captain for inspiration and drive, especially the younger ones.

Does Max ooze those qualities, with his seemingly laid back approach? One thing is for sure, we didn’t have enough leaders and voices on the pitch yesterday, when needed. Dawson was a huge miss.

 

[Wolf in Kenilworth]

You need leaders on the pitch.

Dawson, Lemina, Gomes and Cunha all have that quality.

Part of our success no doubt.

 

[Wednesbury Wolf]

I reckon Kilman is undoubtedly the most ineffective captain we've had for many many years.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Our problem is we have too many nice players
All very happy smiling people
Even Dawson is not really a shouty man
We need someone with a nasty streak, maybe Gomes will be at some point but still to early in his career just yet

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I keep hearing Kilman is not captain material which I’ll be honest watching him play with his personality traits he doesn’t scream leader to me.

However, how important is the armband? Being captain doesn’t change anything really, it doesn’t give them anymore power on the pitch other than speaking to the ref. If Lemina was captain yesterday what changes? We still lose that game. My point is you can still be a leader without wearing the armband so why is its importance so overstated?

The captain role means absolutely nothing in the modern game. It’s about having leaders throughout the squad. A proper senior leadership team within the squad is far more important. City are a great example, not a jot of difference who the captain is

 

[berwickwolf]

I reckon Kilman is undoubtedly the most ineffective captain we've had for many many years.

Wow. Worse than Roger Johnson?

One of the best captains in any sport was Willie John McBride. The most successful England Rugby captain? Martin Johnson. Bobby Moore took England to win the World Cup. Billy Wright was a captain of dignity and inner steel.

It's not the loudest who's the best, nor the one who flaps his arms at team mates. It's the one who leads by example on the training ground; in the changing room; on the pitch. Someone who epitomises the core values of a team and the club.

Kilman has come from fussball (you heard it first here, by the way), from non league football, to the top half of the Premier League. He has developed his skills and playing ability to a level where he has been named as a potential England player, a player who was wanted by top overseas clubs at top prices but who wanted to stay at Wolves. A man who has succeeded in his sport and who is still, relatively, young.

He might not shout and scream on the pitch; he might not constantly talk of his love for the fans; he might not even be a perfect player or the greatest Wolves captain in our life time.

But by God he deserves more respect than your post shows him.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I reckon Kilman is undoubtedly the most ineffective captain we've had for many many years.

It’s a “nothing” role in the modern game, he flips a coin for kick off. Kilmans problem is that unfortunately he’s nowhere near as good as some fans think he is

 

[Frank Lincoln]

A captain is important. Bill McGarry said that Mike Bailey was his right hand man on the pitch. Bailey led by example and expected everyone to give their all for the team.

Since Coady left, Wolves haven’t had an inspirational captain. I’m not sure who else there is to be captain, maybe Dawson, but how much longer will he be around?

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

A captain is important. Bill McGarry said that Mike Bailey was his right hand man on the pitch. Bailey led by example and expected everyone to give their all for the team.

Since Coady left, Wolves haven’t had an inspirational captain. I’m not sure who else there is to be captain, maybe Dawson, but how much longer will he be around?

Rarely I disagree with you Frank but I do on this. Look at the senior players we had when Coady was there, his role is massively overstated. The likes of Neves, Moutinho etc don’t need a mouthpiece by them.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Rarely I disagree with you Frank but I do on this. Look at the senior players we had when Coady was there, his role is massively overstated. The likes of Neves, Moutinho etc don’t need a mouthpiece by them.

Fair comment. Coady did have international players around him, though if things weren’t going well it was usually Coady who would be encouraging other players. Though as you say, seasoned internationals like Moutinho didn’t need motivating.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Dawson, Lemina, Sa

Should all be ahead of Kilman, they show leadership qualities most games

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Whether a capt is important or not I'm not sure but I don't see leadership qualities in Kilman tbh. As an onlooker he does not inspire me as say Ince or Coady or Neves did. If we're looking to off load 1 or 2 big hitters in the summer he'd be pretty much top of my list.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Dawson Lemina and Cunha.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

A captain is important. Bill McGarry said that Mike Bailey was his right hand man on the pitch. Bailey led by example and expected everyone to give their all for the team.

Since Coady left, Wolves haven’t had an inspirational captain. I’m not sure who else there is to be captain, maybe Dawson, but how much longer will he be around?

Yes a good captain is the manager on the pitch. Bailey was the glue and was able to influence the game.Ince did aswell althoug in a different way than Bailey. I dont remember if Hughes was captain for us but is another who is captain like. Not ours but Danny Blanchflower was another good example of a superb captain.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

I think Gomes is good captain material.

I don't think a captain has to be all shouty and bally all the time but there are moments in tough games where that is required and some will look to the captain for some form of leadership. Max certainly isn't it.

 

[groundhogwolf]

The captain role means absolutely nothing in the modern game. It’s about having leaders throughout the squad. A proper senior leadership team within the squad is far more important. City are a great example, not a jot of difference who the captain is

So why have one, or even name one.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Our problem is we have too many nice players
All very happy smiling people
Even Dawson is not really a shouty man
We need someone with a nasty streak, maybe Gomes will be at some point but still to early in his career just yet

Having nice people is fine, but on the pitch I think it should be the opposite.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Having nice people is fine, but on the pitch I think it should be the opposite.

Roy Keane springs to mind.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Roy Keane springs to mind.

Right. He has moments of banter/cracking the occasional joke on Sky, but even then he is still quite serious.

I was just a kid when he retired even, but I know he was an animal on the pitch. That's what we need. Someone who would leave that pitch in a coffin for us. Supporters will always remember a player like that.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

So why have one, or even name one.

Because you have to have one. Of all the rules that could be scrapped, removal of a captain would make the least of ripples. Literally there to toss a coin.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

A captain's role is largely redundant, at least on the field, in the modern game, where clubs nowadays favour 'leadership groups' instead of levying all the responsibility with one individual.

Kilman isn't a big talker, and typically when O'Neil wants instructions to filter through the team he'll use Lemina or get someone to go down injured so he can address the whole team.

Leadership qualities are definitely still sought, but good leaders don't need a ceremonial armband to demonstrate them. Giving somebody else the captaincy would have very little net positive impact, whereas relieving someone of the captaincy in order to do that would likely cause far more of an issue.

 

[WW1963]

So why have one, or even name one.

Traditions of men.

 

[berwickwolf]

Traditions of men.

Not the free men who live north of the wall

 

[OLDGOLD]

The captain role means absolutely nothing in the modern game. It’s about having leaders throughout the squad. A proper senior leadership team within the squad is far more important. City are a great example, not a jot of difference who the captain is

Maybe. But even if that is the case, I am not sure I would have Kilman in the leadership group above Dawson, Lemina, Gomes, Cunha and maybe even Sa.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Maybe. But even if that is the case, I am not sure I would have Kilman in the leadership group above Dawson, Lemina, Gomes, Cunha and maybe even Sa.

The point is they’re all in the leadership group, they don’t need a hierarchy.

 

[Golden Arrow]

Rarely I disagree with you Frank but I do on this. Look at the senior players we had when Coady was there, his role is massively overstated. The likes of Neves, Moutinho etc don’t need a mouthpiece by them.

So basically, we lack those leadership qualities right now because we are an inexperienced "field unit", or have I misunderstood your point?

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

So basically, we lack those leadership qualities right now because we are an inexperienced "field unit", or have I misunderstood your point?

I don’t think Saturday can be held up that we lack leadership unless you want to ignore the rest of the season?

 

[Golden Arrow]

I don’t think Saturday can be held up that we lack leadership unless you want to ignore the rest of the season?

I wasn't referring to Saturday at all, but merely picking up on your point that a Captain has no real role to play apart from tossing the coin and having a photograph taken with the mascots before kick off.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I wasn't referring to Saturday at all, but merely picking up on your point that a Captain has no real role to play apart from tossing the coin and having a photograph taken with the mascots before kick off.

What else do they do?

There’s hosts of players who have come out over the years and said it’s not an important role, it never has been in Europe it’s an English obsession. That great United team of the 90s had a load of leaders it didn’t matter who wore an armband. The Arsenal Invincibles, the current City team. Top level professionals just don’t require it.

I used to laugh from the South bank and Coady waving his arms about and shouting. Boly, Moutinho, Neves didn’t even look in his direction as they don’t need it

 

[Golden Arrow]

What else do they do?

There’s hosts of players who have come out over the years and said it’s not an important role, it never has been in Europe it’s an English obsession. That great United team of the 90s had a load of leaders it didn’t matter who wore an armband. The Arsenal Invincibles, the current City team. Top level professionals just don’t require it.

I used to laugh from the South bank and Coady waving his arms about and shouting. Boly, Moutinho, Neves didn’t even look in his direction as they don’t need it

I wasn't making a case for a Captain but you seem to think I was.
Perhaps it should be scrapped altogether, do the toss for ends in the referee's room, then run out and kick off (after of course removing smart tracksuit tops).

The point I was trying to make (not very well) was perhaps we don't currently have that level of leadership on the field and therefore not able to work as "a unit" as we did in the Nuno era. And with that in mind, I expect more Saturday moments for now.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Max ain’t no captain courageous

 

[Wednesbury Wolf]

Max ain’t no captain courageous

It wouldn't be so bad if he was an excellent defender he is mediocre at best.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I wasn't making a case for a Captain but you seem to think I was.
Perhaps it should be scrapped altogether, do the toss for ends in the referee's room, then run out and kick off (after of course removing smart tracksuit tops).

The point I was trying to make (not very well) was perhaps we don't currently have that level of leadership on the field and therefore not able to work as "a unit" as we did in the Nuno era. And with that in mind, I expect more Saturday moments for now.

But that was the first time we lacked leadership Saturday. It’s worked as a group all season, the leadership and togetherness is there to be seen. Surely you take the rough with the smooth? Did we lack leaders in the last 10 minutes against Brighton?? It’s football, it happens.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

But that was the first time we lacked leadership Saturday. It’s worked as a group all season, the leadership and togetherness is there to be seen. Surely you take the rough with the smooth? Did we lack leaders in the last 10 minutes against Brighton?? It’s football, it happens.

Clear Max needs a talker next to him. Such as Coady and Dawson when we’ve seen his best performances in the old gold @Wednesbury Wolf

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Clear Max needs a talker next to him. Such as Coady and Dawson when we’ve seen his best performances in the old gold @Wednesbury Wolf

That’s not really the point of the thread though is it?

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

That’s not really the point of the thread though is it?

So is Max captain material? No, there is a reason Nuno didn’t trust him

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

So is Max captain material? No, there is a reason Nuno didn’t trust him

I think he’s captain material for the reasons I’ve said earlier in this thread, it’s a totally redundant role. He shakes hands and tosses a coin. Having a leadership team within the squad is far far more important than who is captain.

Nuno didn’t trust him? He was still an inexperienced boy under Nuno. You’re confusing the hell out me here. Are you saying he didn’t trust him as a player or as a captain??

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I think he’s captain material for the reasons I’ve said earlier in this thread, it’s a totally redundant role. He shakes hands and tosses a coin. Having a leadership team within the squad is far far more important than who is captain.

Nuno didn’t trust him? He was still an inexperienced boy under Nuno. You’re confusing the hell out me here. Are you saying he didn’t trust him as a player or as a captain??

Player. Like you said was younger then. Still he’s turned into a better player. Has he peaked? Probably

 

[groundhogwolf]

Unfortunately not everyone has leadership ability. In every walk of life some lead and others follow. Way more important than just tossing a coin. I understand some wanting to defend Kilman he’s a lovely bloke, but leader he ain’t. Like Saturday when for some reason a game is getting away from you, someone like Coady would have attempted to restructure and make decisions and make it clear to the group how we can have some impact on an outcome. Prior to the game Coventry’s captain was present during the press conference he made it clear how prepared they were for this game, I watched this guy play during the game, he took the game by the horns and drove the rest of his teammates, good captains matter.