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Can we discuss Hobbs ?

SteveBullsKnee

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I can't see Hobbs let those two players go on a free with their talent either extend further or sell.
I can’t see an extension because they’d want similar money to now (which is what they’d get on a free plus juicy signing on fees). Their resale values are minimal at best
 

Madmalc

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Forgive my maths.
Only 1 or 2 first team starters leaving each season would take between 5.5 and 11 years to completely refresh the first team...
Whereas 2 to 3 first team starters leaving each year is between 3.7 to 5.5 years to completely refresh the first team.
Then again 3 to 4 first team starters leaving is 2.75 to 3.7 years to completely refresh the first team.

Can someone come up with how many years an average footballer remains at the top of their game, bearing in mind we've already kept some players too far past their peak, that they've either walked for free (Adama) or for a lot less than their peak value (Raul).
 

lobodelsur

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Forgive my maths.
Only 1 or 2 first team starters leaving each season would take between 5.5 and 11 years to completely refresh the first team...
Whereas 2 to 3 first team starters leaving each year is between 3.7 to 5.5 years to completely refresh the first team.
Then again 3 to 4 first team starters leaving is 2.75 to 3.7 years to completely refresh the first team.

Can someone come up with how many years an average footballer remains at the top of their game, bearing in mind we've already kept some players too far past their peak, that they've either walked for free (Adama) or for a lot less than their peak value (Raul).
Nothing wrong with your maths, but its probably more about refreshing the squad than just the 1st team. Sell someone for big money and bring in 2/3 players into the squad, one to use directly (if we don't already have a replacement) and two to develop.









Nottabueno,
 

wwbug

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Talk is talk. For me the jury is still out. I am not sure .
I still believe we have longterm weaknesses that should be addressed and we didnt touch those areas in the Summer or Winter windows. And we weakened the squad in January.
For GON brownie points there is Michael Hobbs ! How can you get it so right and so wrong ?
I think January 2023 signings were all Lopetegui choices, bar Gomes.
Next 12 months will make his ability clearer. I hope he passes the test.
 
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Scallywolf

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Apart from rewarding Gary O'Neil with an improved contract, Matt Hobb's said something which caught my attention.. Matt wants Wolves to be "self-sustainable" on the pitch, so any investment from owners Fosun can go into the stadium or training ground. Good to hear!
It is good to hear, Berlin, in one way, but ‘self sustainable’ concerns me in that we have a stadium with a 32,500 capacity and average sponsorship income compared to many other Premier League clubs.

I don’t think we generate enough income to be self sustainable in the Premier League without having to sell our best players, which concerns me. I want us to keep our best players and compete!

Fosun have to decide what to do about Molineux. It definitely needs an increase in capacity to generate more income so we can compete with the so called ‘Super Six’ but that will cost tens of millions. That would make us self sustainable imo. Until that happens (which will hopefully generate more sponsorship deals) we will just meander along imo.
 

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Talk is talk. For me the jury is still out. I am not sure .
I still believe we have longterm weaknesses that should be addressed and we didnt touch those areas in the Summer or Winter windows. And we weakened the squad in January.
For GON brownie points there is Michael Hobbs ! How can you get it so right and so wrong ?
I think January 2023 signings were all Lopetegui choices, bar Gomes.
Next 12 months will make his ability clearer. I hope he passes the test.

That's just plainly untrue unfortunately.

Gomes, Dawson & Bentley were definitely Hobbs signings, plus Lemina was someone we tried to recruit in the previous Summer but didn't come to fruition. Lopetegui also liked the player, so a January move was able to get done. I'd say that one is a 80/20 Wolves.

So it leaves Sarabia & Cunha who were certainly Lopetegui signings.

Not debating the talent on the signings but be less hyperbolic with your sweeping statements
 
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QB Wolf

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Talk is talk. For me the jury is still out. I am not sure .
I still believe we have longterm weaknesses that should be addressed and we didnt touch those areas in the Summer or Winter windows. And we weakened the squad in January.
For GON brownie points there is Michael Hobbs ! How can you get it so right and so wrong ?
I think January 2023 signings were all Lopetegui choices, bar Gomes.
Next 12 months will make his ability clearer. I hope he passes the test.
Because there’s this thing called PSR which means you can only spend a certain amount compared to your income over a 3 year period?
 

WorcesterWanderer

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there’s a price for every player, if it’s hit and the player is interested in going then that is that.
When you think about it, transfer sagas really can be that simple. Which makes it sort of funny when they drag on for so long. But that is, of course, ignoring all of the finer, mostly financial, details that have to be worked out.
 

Aurum Lupus

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Thanks for clearing that up. Not the biggest fan of that approach but it's what all the top clubs have been doing for a while now, so of course the rest must follow suit.
In todays FFP world with transfer windows it's the only policy that makes sense.

It's extremely difficult to go making wholesales changes to a team now. Therefore the business needs to decide on its strategy and then employ coaches and playing staff to enact that. When managers had total dominion, if you sacked one and the next didn't like his ideas of what a player should look like in his team, you then need to go and spend a lot of money to remould the team. When you bring in a coach, they have the strategy explained during the interview process and can decide if they feel that fits with their ideology.
 

WorcesterWanderer

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In todays FFP world with transfer windows it's the only policy that makes sense.

It's extremely difficult to go making wholesales changes to a team now. Therefore the business needs to decide on its strategy and then employ coaches and playing staff to enact that. When managers had total dominion, if you sacked one and the next didn't like his ideas of what a player should look like in his team, you then need to go and spend a lot of money to remould the team. When you bring in a coach, they have the strategy explained during the interview process and can decide if they feel that fits with their ideology.
See now it makes total sense to me. Whenever I've asked someone to explain the Head Coach and Director of Football model to me on other football sites, people have been a bit harsh for some reason, possibly because they think I was trying to be sarcastic etc.

Thanks for explaining. It does seem a lot more structured, and when it works it works very well, that's clear for all to see around Europe. My only genuine complaint is that 'Managers' still get all of the blame when they aren't as involved as they seemingly used to be. But yeah, thanks for making that so easy to understand because I don't want to be someone who hates change in football simply because I don't get it.
 

wwbug

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Because there’s this thing called PSR which means you can only spend a certain amount compared to your income over a 3 year period?
That is why I did state , for me , the jury is out . Until he is given funds and because of Michael Beale.

I also dont believe we got rid of Silva or Sasa for financial reasons. So we did have some salaries to play with and we should have invested those salaries, to improve our bench. It appears he couldn't or didn't find those men.
 
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Wagstaffe Was Magic

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Apart from rewarding Gary O'Neil with an improved contract, Matt Hobb's said something which caught my attention.. Matt wants Wolves to be "self-sustainable" on the pitch, so any investment from owners Fosun can go into the stadium or training ground. Good to hear!
I’m not sure about this Berlin!!

Self sustainable means selling your good players going forward!!

You end up watching a second rate team in a first rate stadium.

The lessons of history should teach us the folly of investing in the stadium to the detriment of the team. We spent the 80s and the 90s paying for that skewed policy.

Fans come principally to see a good successful side and to be entertained!! There was a time, not so long ago when we stood out in all the weather elements and were so entertained on the pitch we hardly noticed the weather!!

One other point I didn’t care for in Matt’s statement. He kept referring to ‘big clubs’ coming in for our players. Again, the lessons of history tell us that we are as big and as proud as any club in the land!!

Ok, he’s speaking in Sky 6 terms, but why should our standing be determined by Sky of 1992 vintage. And what message does his devaluation of our standing send out to would- be new players?? By they’re own admission Wolves are a feeder club, a second tier club??

I wasn’t impressed with the optics of his message!!
 

Sussex Wolf

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I’m not sure about this Berlin!!

Self sustainable means selling your good players going forward!!

You end up watching a second rate team in a first rate stadium.

The lessons of history should teach us the folly of investing in the stadium to the detriment of the team. We spent the 80s and the 90s paying for that skewed policy.

Fans come principally to see a good successful side and to be entertained!! There was a time, not so long ago when we stood out in all the weather elements and were so entertained on the pitch we hardly noticed the weather!!

One other point I didn’t care for in Matt’s statement. He kept referring to ‘big clubs’ coming in for our players. Again, the lessons of history tell us that we are as big and as proud as any club in the land!!

Ok, he’s speaking in Sky 6 terms, but why should our standing be determined by Sky of 1992 vintage. And what message does his devaluation of our standing send out to would- be new players?? By they’re own admission Wolves are a feeder club, a second tier club??

I wasn’t impressed with the optics of his message!!

I don’t agree. I think it’s a good strategy to have a club which can generally fund its self without needing wealthy owners injecting endless millions. It makes us less reliant on the whims of owners who may or may not have the clubs best interests at heart. That is also a lesson from those dark days of the 80’s. Realistically, for an established PL club, the best way an investor can make a decent long term return is by investing in the facilities, not by pumping hundreds of millions into a squad in the hope of trophies.

Even if we aspire to the highest levels of success, there is no reason why a club cannot continue to grow its talent base by sensible player trading. Of course, you always want an owner willing and able to inject cash into the team if PL survival is at risk because of poor decisions made in prior player or coaching recruitment.
 

Berlin Wolf

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I’m not sure about this Berlin!!

Self sustainable means selling your good players going forward!!

You end up watching a second rate team in a first rate stadium.

The lessons of history should teach us the folly of investing in the stadium to the detriment of the team. We spent the 80s and the 90s paying for that skewed policy.

Fans come principally to see a good successful side and to be entertained!! There was a time, not so long ago when we stood out in all the weather elements and were so entertained on the pitch we hardly noticed the weather!!

One other point I didn’t care for in Matt’s statement. He kept referring to ‘big clubs’ coming in for our players. Again, the lessons of history tell us that we are as big and as proud as any club in the land!!

Ok, he’s speaking in Sky 6 terms, but why should our standing be determined by Sky of 1992 vintage. And what message does his devaluation of our standing send out to would- be new players?? By they’re own admission Wolves are a feeder club, a second tier club??

I wasn’t impressed with the optics of his message!!
I whole heartedly agree with most of what you say WWM. I was actually referring to the last bit, news that Fosun would invest in the stadium or training ground. First we've heard for a long time that they are still willing to do this. The stadium does need to be updated, revamped and capacity raised, to help us compete as an established Premier League club. Like you, I did get annoyed when Matt Hobbs referred to 'big clubs' coming in for our players. I know he means the Sky 6, but going back five or six years Jeff himself was projecting Wolves to be bigger than those!
 

giantwolf

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Thanks for clearing that up. Not the biggest fan of that approach but it's what all the top clubs have been doing for a while now, so of course the rest must follow suit.

But its more than just a yes or no after Hobbs finds a player he fancies the look of.

There is consultation throughout:

O'Neil has a say on style of play (Hobbs will identify the right players for that)
O'Neil has a say on current squad (Hobbs will factor that in for player trading/renewals etc)
O'Neil says he has a gap in an x position (Hobbs will go and find a player to fill that gap)
We get a big bid for a star player (O'Neil will get a say in his worth to keep vs what he can do with the money if sold)
An opportunity arises for Hobbs to sign a player they've been tracking for the above or future succession planning (ie Joao Gomes), O'Neil gets a say
 

Wisdomwolf

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I whole heartedly agree with most of what you say WWM. I was actually referring to the last bit, news that Fosun would invest in the stadium or training ground. First we've heard for a long time that they are still willing to do this. The stadium does need to be updated, revamped and capacity raised, to help us compete as an established Premier League club. Like you, I did get annoyed when Matt Hobbs referred to 'big clubs' coming in for our players. I know he means the Sky 6, but going back five or six years Jeff himself was projecting Wolves to be bigger than those!
But, in reality the cartel that operates at the top of the pyramid, buoyed by a decade or more of CL football riches, is simply out of reach. Fosun has discovered this, unfortunately, as have others - Newcastle, Aston Villa etc. Perhaps Hobbs could have been more choice with his words, but it is what it is.
 

northnorfolkwolf

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I'm not sure what's meant by Big Clubs, unless the Bigger the debts equals the Bigger the club?
Big fish eat little fish! We have 6 big fish in our league plus a host of big fish in Europe. We will never be a big fish but we are at least swimming in the same pond! Sorry for the aquatic analogies! We have to accept that if we have a Neto, or before him a Jota, they will get sold to one of the big boys. I don't like it but that's reality. I suppose BHA and Soton have done this for years but it means you need to be continually unearthing young cheapish talent to compete. Soton have proved this does not succeed for ever. We were spoilt having Neves for 6 seasons as in the future, regrettably we will perhaps only be able to hang on to the likes of Cunha, Gomes and RAN for a couple of seasons before they get sold for big money and so the cycle repeats.
 

WolvesinBrum

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I think the club had very little experience of renewing a squad. They made a mess of it till it almost got too late. JLop and Hobbs did a salvage job and Hobbs tidied things up in the summer.

And great as they were, we've survived and kind of thrived without, for example, Mouts and Neves.

I felt a bit like Mouts' for the last couple of hus seasons were a bit of a comfort blanket for a club not experiencedin changing a squad. Him being around was comforting for me, when the summer transfers and who was the manager was worrying.

And much that I like Coady, his improved terms, a little bit at the time but admittedly a lot in retrospect, was over generous.

I think after those 2 superb seasons in the Prem and Europe, it was where do we go from here and it proved, "Down unless we're not very careful!".

Well, we're doing ok now and the club has experience of refreshing a squad without all wheels not wuite falling off, and what it needs is for Fosun to trust this latest model, the people putting it into action and its nuances, after they had wonderful initial outcomes with Mendes and then mainly finger-burning thereafter.

Whether that be trusting a big money signing is relatively low risk - I think it will be necessary to spend big money sometimes - or being flexible when a manager flags up a not unreasonable need with plenty of notice, I think Jeff and Guo need to work out why something has worked rather than thinking it'll work for ever.
Otherwise from relying on Mendes rabbits out of hands, they'll be leaning on Hobbs and GON to perform relative miracles out of dust.
 
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Contrarian

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It is good to hear, Berlin, in one way, but ‘self sustainable’ concerns me in that we have a stadium with a 32,500 capacity and average sponsorship income compared to many other Premier League clubs.

I don’t think we generate enough income to be self sustainable in the Premier League without having to sell our best players, which concerns me. I want us to keep our best players and compete!

Fosun have to decide what to do about Molineux. It definitely needs an increase in capacity to generate more income so we can compete with the so called ‘Super Six’ but that will cost tens of millions. That would make us self sustainable imo. Until that happens (which will hopefully generate more sponsorship deals) we will just meander along imo.

Income from ticket sales is virtually insignificant these days. The vast majority of the Big 6 income comes from TV, merchandising, sponsorship, executive boxes etc Commercial revenue is something like 3 or 4 times the match day revenue for the top clubs. Average fans paying for tickets count for next to nothing, which is evident when you see how the game is run these days.
 

Monketron

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Income from ticket sales is virtually insignificant these days. The vast majority of the Big 6 income comes from TV, merchandising, sponsorship, executive boxes etc Average fans paying for tickets count for next to nothing, which is evident when you see how the game is run these days.

Saw somewhere that Spurs make 800k from catering ALONE per matchday. That's way more than Wolves make in ticket sales. We're never going to match that no matter what we do.
 

tonto

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What I don’t understand is 20 teams make up the league but allow 6 to call all the shots, take them on vote for change ,if they don’t like it **** off to your super league, viva the revolution
 

SteveBullsKnee

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I’m not sure about this Berlin!!

Self sustainable means selling your good players going forward!!

You end up watching a second rate team in a first rate stadium.

The lessons of history should teach us the folly of investing in the stadium to the detriment of the team. We spent the 80s and the 90s paying for that skewed policy.

Fans come principally to see a good successful side and to be entertained!! There was a time, not so long ago when we stood out in all the weather elements and were so entertained on the pitch we hardly noticed the weather!!

One other point I didn’t care for in Matt’s statement. He kept referring to ‘big clubs’ coming in for our players. Again, the lessons of history tell us that we are as big and as proud as any club in the land!!

Ok, he’s speaking in Sky 6 terms, but why should our standing be determined by Sky of 1992 vintage. And what message does his devaluation of our standing send out to would- be new players?? By they’re own admission Wolves are a feeder club, a second tier club??

I wasn’t impressed with the optics of his message!!
Agree with you wholeheartedly about the stadium. I’ve never got the obsession by fans about it. Sure Molineux is tired now but so what? I see posters moan about it needing a painting, who’s looking at the stadium?!?!? I’m bothered about what goes on the pitch for 90 mins. Is the food over priced and rubbish? Yes. Is the stadium cramped? Yes. Would a “better” stadium enhance my day out? Absolutely not. White Hart Lane and Upton Park were proper hostile grounds, the atmosphere at their replacements is beyond woeful.

The whole “it’ll bring in more money” is a myth in my eyes. Any sort of development would put us back 10 years financially at an absolute minimum
 

SteveBullsKnee

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Saw somewhere that Spurs make 800k from catering ALONE per matchday. That's way more than Wolves make in ticket sales. We're never going to match that no matter what we do.
There’s lots of variables though in that. Tottenham because of its location will always get tourist fans. Someone on a city break in London from say the States would go and catch a game, regardless of what we did with the stadium that is never ever happening.
 

wolvesjoe

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Agree with you wholeheartedly about the stadium. I’ve never got the obsession by fans about it. Sure Molineux is tired now but so what? I see posters moan about it needing a painting, who’s looking at the stadium?!?!? I’m bothered about what goes on the pitch for 90 mins. Is the food over priced and rubbish? Yes. Is the stadium cramped? Yes. Would a “better” stadium enhance my day out? Absolutely not. White Hart Lane and Upton Park were proper hostile grounds, the atmosphere at their replacements is beyond woeful.

The whole “it’ll bring in more money” is a myth in my eyes. Any sort of development would put us back 10 years financially at an absolute minimum

Wolves are being left behind in every way with regard to the stadium.

Really small-time thinking.

Worst aspect is exclusion of younger fans today, the direct line to the club's future.

This is largely Fosun's responsibility and they have failed miserably. EIGHT years for ****s sake.

It will also affect the club's attractiveness to players and coaches.
 

wolvesjoe

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Hobbs comes across as a little too much in control mode in this discussion.

Trying to ramp down expectations on Fosun's behalf.

We will find out in due time what is real and what is PR.
 

SteveBullsKnee

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Wolves are being left behind in every way with regard to the stadium.

Really small-time thinking.

Worst aspect is exclusion of younger fans today, the direct line to the club's future.

This is largely Fosun's responsibility and they have failed miserably. EIGHT years for ****s sake.

It will also affect the club's attractiveness to players and coaches.
It’s not small time thinking. Nearly all of a clubs income comes from being in the top division, the stadium income is tiny. The idea that we spend £200 million plus on a stadium development will somehow magic £10s of millions of additional income is absolute fantasy. It’d take 10 years to see any sort of return and even then it won’t be a huge amount. The geographical location will always mean we’re on a hiding to nothing.

As for attracting players and coaches. They really don’t care about that, it’s a job. They care about pay and what the training facilities are like, not where they play 90 minutes once a fortnight
 

SteveBullsKnee

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TimYou're brilliant to read, I just imagine you sat at the keyboard with the blinds down, and a tinfoil hat on.
Tin Foil Tinfoil Hat GIF
 

Mile End Wanderer

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Hobbs comes across as a little too much in control mode in this discussion.

Trying to ramp down expectations on Fosun's behalf.

We will find out in due time what is real and what is PR.
Next season we will struggle more so
 

wolvesjoe

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You're brilliant to read, I just imagine you sat at the keyboard with the blinds down, and a tinfoil hat on.
That's funny as I imagine you as someone whose own dog hides from him.
 

WorcesterWanderer

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But its more than just a yes or no after Hobbs finds a player he fancies the look of.

There is consultation throughout:

O'Neil has a say on style of play (Hobbs will identify the right players for that)
O'Neil has a say on current squad (Hobbs will factor that in for player trading/renewals etc)
O'Neil says he has a gap in an x position (Hobbs will go and find a player to fill that gap)
We get a big bid for a star player (O'Neil will get a say in his worth to keep vs what he can do with the money if sold)
An opportunity arises for Hobbs to sign a player they've been tracking for the above or future succession planning (ie Joao Gomes), O'Neil gets a say
The more it gets explained to me, the more it makes sense. Thanks guys for giving me a better perspective on how the club is run.
 

WorcesterWanderer

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I'm not sure what's meant by Big Clubs, unless the Bigger the debts equals the Bigger the club?
Like others have said it mostly refers to the Sky 6. On that topic- fans of those clubs are so entitled, at least in my experience. Divine right to win every trophy and get any player or manager they want the second they want it.
 

brianm

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Re: the stadium...how much pent up demand is there for Wolves tickets? Corporate boxes?
 

wwbug

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Wolves are being left behind in every way with regard to the stadium.

Really small-time thinking.

Worst aspect is exclusion of younger fans today, the direct line to the club's future.

This is largely Fosun's responsibility and they have failed miserably. EIGHT years for ****s sake.

It will also affect the club's attractiveness to players and coaches.
If not a £200 million stadium at least a £1 million budget on some improvements and redcorationg might help .
 

Werewolf of Wombourne

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Wolves are being left behind in every way with regard to the stadium.

Really small-time thinking.

Worst aspect is exclusion of younger fans today, the direct line to the club's future.

This is largely Fosun's responsibility and they have failed miserably. EIGHT years for ****s sake.

It will also affect the club's attractiveness to players and coaches.
I think you are overestimating how much weight a stadium plays in a players thinking. If the manager and training facilities are first class, which I think ours are, that is far more important than the stadium. How much time do players actually spend there? And if that is the case how the **** have Bournemouth signed anyone ever?
 
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