Burnley Verdict

[loppers86]

GON made his come and get me (Brighton/West Ham) plea all on his own without needing Ballague.

 

[yateleywolf]

Dug in for a hard earned point against a rejuvenated Burnley. It wasn't pretty to watch ; H Bueno really struggled. Doherty added nothing.
But could have easily capitulated and they didn't. Thought the subs were better and great to see Cunha back.
Keeps the season going until West Ham at least.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Wonder who it was.

Broja

 

[Jamwolf]

Someone posted that Fosun took the risk of not buying in the window. What if it was the other way round ? Perhaps buying could have screwed us with a points deduction.
Anyway, it is what it is, no one is phsychic.

 

[Darvo]

I count 3 forwards.
Bellegarde is as much a forward as RAN is shame he is out but I'm not sure he would have made much difference now.
Hwang was injured for most of January and Neto was coming back from an injury. It is a horribly predictable scenario that we just have to ride out. Think we are over the worst of it now though.

We just can’t go into next season with such limited attacking options where a couple of those players are injury prone.

 

[Rubberball]

It's definitely flawed. Some cases where it doesn't tell the story are where a team scores early off a less than stellar chance and then the other side racks up a decent xG number despite never being that close to scoring. In general, a team will get a decent xG if they are chasing a game.

I also think it's total nonsense to use it over a season like Poch recently where he said the advanced stats suggest they should be fourth.

However, on a game to game it's not worthless, imo. One thing it does well is account for a good counter-attacking team who generate a few very high percentage chances and concede a lot of lower percentage chances, ending up in a fairly even game.

It's completely worthless. A vanity stat to tell you how well the people who take their shots performed.

Doesn't take into account the person taking the shot and is also based on players taking that shot in any league, in any competition, all over the world.

People using the stat don't understand metrics, measurement and how flawed the use of stats in football are in general

There are far too many variables in football to make stats worthwhile to depend on and those with statistical degrees don't have the football knowledge to apply them with any sort of meaning.

There's a reason matchday scouts are employed by clubs to watch teams before they play then and there's also cautionary takes about managers that say they don't need them.

Trust your eyes and use simple accurate metrics to confirm or challenge what you saw.

 

[Rubberball]

Someone posted that Fosun took the risk of not buying in the window. What if it was the oher way round and buying would have screwed us with a points deduction.
Anyway, it is what it is, no one is phsychic.

That's what Hobbs is there for.

 

[North West Wanderer]

Terrible.

Too slow passing. Kilman passing horrific. Sarabia absolutely shocking , and a total lack of desire to beat the second worst team in the league

What a waste this season looks like being due to fosun, but GON must take responsibly for our dire tactics last night

Kilman also put RAN through with a brilliant through ball which RAN had to score.

i forgot though, RAN is the current poster boy and unable to be criticised whereas Kilman needs literally crucifying.

This ladies, gents and those who don’t identify either way, is the football fan of 2024.

This isn’t aimed at you per se OWTW.

 

[wolfslair]

Broja

Broja always wanted London, if we did offer to match Fulham’s offer (we didn’t) he still would have chosen there from what I was told over night

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I have to confess that at the end of January I said that if the right player wasn't there, then we would be better to go with what we had.

However I'm simply not buying the idea that we couldn't afford a loan player because of PSR. We've cut the wage bill and made a huge transfer profit, budgeted on finishing 17th, then loaned two well paid strikers. O'Neil was told we had money to spend in January and then that we hadn't. It's not working to a tight budget that's frustrated him, it's having the goalposts moved (sound familiar?).

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I have to confess that at the end of January I said that if the right player wasn't there, then we would be better to go with what we had.

However I'm simply not buying the idea that we couldn't afford a loan player because of PSR. We've cut the wage bill and made a huge transfer profit, budgeted on finishing 17th, then loaned two well paid strikers. O'Neil was told we had money to spend in January and then that we hadn't. It's not working to a tight budget that's frustrated him, it's having the goalposts moved (sound familiar?).

Based on reports, the financial headroom was very tight, with no more than 2-3m available based on a worst case 17th finish. Gary has already said himself that we had someone lined up on loan, but that we were outbid at the 11th hour and couldn’t match without risking breaking the limit. So was money withheld, then yes in a sense, and no. Had we been sitting in the bottom three and/or missing forwards to injury at the time, then maybe the club takes the risk, spends a few million more, and we aim to finish a couple of places higher so the prize money covers the gap. But back in January, three of four forwards were fit, and the fourth was expected back imminently. Our bigger concern then was losing players to Afcon and Asia Cup, which looked bad but in practice affected only a handful of games.

As for Fabio. For a start he, through his father, made it clear he didn’t want to be here. Secondly, I’m genuinely not sure he offers much more than our two young forwards. Sasa would’ve offered something different, but wasn’t fit and, as we’ve seen since, remains injury prone.

See my response on the GON thread above.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

See my response on the GON thread above.

Yes, but I have no faith whatever in the accuracy of a forecast of £2.7m headroom. The stuff the club leaks goes all over the place. Hobbs was clearly told there was money and then that there wasn't even though all that changed was players being loaned out. We might finish 13th, we aren't finishing 17th. That's £10m extra for a start, that's paying for anyone we could realistically expect.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Yes, but I have no faith whatever in the accuracy of a forecast of £2.7m headroom. The stuff the club leaks goes all over the place. Hobbs was clearly told there was money and then that there wasn't even though all that changed was players being loaned out. We might finish 13th, we aren't finishing 17th. That's £10m extra for a start, that's paying for anyone we could realistically expect.

We are finishing mid table now, but that was by no means certain back in January. It’s a balance of risk in my view. The threat of relegation vs a points deduction vs a higher placed finish. In January nobody was talking about qualifying for Europe, so the main risk was relegation and the upside was a few million extra pounds in prize money for finishing a couple of places higher.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Yuri Alberto also was about $1m off happening due to rogue agents in Brazil

 

[Perton Wolf]

Kilman also put RAN through with a brilliant through ball which RAN had to score.

i forgot though, RAN is the current poster boy and unable to be criticised whereas Kilman needs literally crucifying.

This ladies, gents and those who don’t identify either way, is the football fan of 2024.

This isn’t aimed at you per se OWTW.

RAN's end product still remains suspect, for me anyway.

 

[Sketchead]

RAN's end product still remains suspect, for me anyway.

That's fine though isn't it because he's a LWB being asked to be our main threat up front. Of course he's not a finisher. Scored one last night, missed a sitter, and put one on a plate for Lemina which he just hit the post with. Sounds about right for a defender that likes to get forward.

 

[Wednesbury Wolf]

RAN's end product still remains suspect, for me anyway.

To be fair to him he's a full back being played out of his normal position, he's got the tricky feet until it comes to shooting where he really hasn't got a clue, he's had 3 sitters lately and missed them all. I doubt he'll be here next season so it won't be a problem.

 

[Sketchead]

I thought it was a decent game to watch to be fair. Both sides had chances.

Thought Ait-Nouri and Semedo were excellent going forward, I genuinely love watching them. Gomes was decent in spells at breaking up play. One of Lemina's quieter nights, often found himself just short of tackles and then chasing back.

Not read the thread in full yet (about to!) so not sure what the narrative is this week but thought Kilman did a decent job - seemed to be heading the ball and intercepting within the box a lot.

West Ham's forwards will take us to the cleaners if we play yet another game without anybody to help hold the ball up and help us keep the ball in the opposing half, so fingers crossed Cunha can start on Saturday.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

All I can think to say at the moment is that it is now just a matter of getting to the end of the season. This summer needs to be a big one.

I wasn't even that surprised by the result.

 

[Golden_Wolf]

Anyone a bit disappointed with H Buenos performance? Thought he was really poor & genuinely can see why Doc has been picked ahead of him.

Hope he gets a run though to see if he can improve but needs to do way more than last night.

 

[North West Wanderer]

RAN's end product still remains suspect, for me anyway.

he’s a hell of a player, just needs to learn the how’s!

 

[Matt]

Anyone a bit disappointed with H Buenos performance? Thought he was really poor & genuinely can see why Doc has been picked ahead of him.

Hope he gets a run though to see if he can improve but needs to do way more than last night.

Agreed, thought he was all over the place in the 10 mins before he got taken off. He needs a loan I think, he’s not a bad player he’s just barely played any football.

 

[Mugwump]

Effectively we have 9 PL forwards (Cunha, Hwang, Neto, Bellegarde, Sarabia, Guedes, Podence, Fabio, Sasa). For a variety of reasons, some you can blame the club and some not, only one of those was available to start today.

Its hard to count the ones who arent here, but it does show how poor our transfers have been in this department.

 

[wolfslair]

Its hard to count the ones who arent here, but it does show how poor our transfers have been in this department.

But you compare it to our CM recruitment over the last 6 years, which has been a resounding success!!!!!

Crazy that we got it so wrong up top

 

[bigbluewolf]

I'm glad we didn't lose but we always seem very charitable towards teams at the bottom end of the table.

 

[JadeWolf]

Its hard to count the ones who arent here, but it does show how poor our transfers have been in this department.

Kind of my point really, with the investment from Fosun we shouldn’t be in the position we’re in, but a lot has been spent poorly.

 

[Contrarian]

That's fine though isn't it because he's a LWB being asked to be our main threat up front. Of course he's not a finisher. Scored one last night, missed a sitter, and put one on a plate for Lemina which he just hit the post with. Sounds about right for a defender that likes to get forward.

I think the position he's been playing in the last couple of matches unleashes the best from him. And that is more central, further forward. The only problem is that his finishing is not that of a forward.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Kind of my point really, with the investment from Fosun we shouldn’t be in the position we’re in, but a lot has been spent poorly.

Mostly under Sellars tenure

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

As i said last night any away point is a good one in the Prem
They had a lot of shots and Sa made some good saves but we had the better chances, RAN should have buried one again but hes not a striker or even a forward tbf,Lemina unlucky with the header, thought it was in all the way but hit the post

A lot being said about GONs after game comments, but he said nothing really except the truth
He knew what could potentially happen,and he knew the club couldnt spend in January,at least not very much
He realises we are where we are and is getting on with it ,under very difficult circumstances

The lads are trying and giving what they can,just have to hope a few heads dont start dropping as we go along
Only 8 games left and hopefully get a few players back for the last half dozen

Im not concerned if we dont pick up many points,theres a lot of games we probably wouldnt win even with a full squad to pick from
We have already had a good season, far better than anyone predicted ,just a shame if it peters out

 

[JadeWolf]

Mostly under Sellars tenure

Agree, Hobbs has so far been much better.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Agree, Hobbs has so far been much better.

I think he actually watches players rather than going off recommendations from agents

 

[JadeWolf]

I think he actually watches players rather than going off recommendations from agents

Hobbs’ background is in scouting and recruitment, Sellars’ background was academy football.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

The yahoos who always support the board, no matter how stupid their policy might be, are in general not worth debating with, as they are
not open to rational discussion or acceptance of reality.

There are plenty of intelligent people to debate with, thankfully.

You could make the same argument about the Jeff Shi out brigade, everything that is wrong is down to Jeff personally and there are no outside factors possibly at play

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

Yuri Alberto also was about $1m off happening due to rogue agents in Brazil

This is what is forgotten in the rush to blame Jeff and Fosun. We had two strikers lined up after Sasa and Fabio left. The agent scuppered the one deal and Chelsea the other by insisting on a £4m must play clause we were never going to agree to with the front 3 playing so well. It would have been sheer lunacy to have agreed to that deal and get a points deduction just to have a half fit back up striker on the bench

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

The yahoos who always support the board, no matter how stupid their policy might be, are in general not worth debating with, as they are
not open to rational discussion or acceptance of reality.

There are plenty of intelligent people to debate with, thankfully.

I get all my information from my IPad.

 

[Eastern Wolf]

I think the position he's been playing in the last couple of matches unleashes the best from him. And that is more central, further forward. The only problem is that his finishing is not that of a forward.

Even “forwards” miss the type of chance that RAN had last night. Antonio missed a one on one last night for West Spam against Spuds. And who can forget the miss by Che Adams against us last season from a yard out when it was easier to score than to miss? We’ve been heavily linked to both players in the past.
Playing forward is still new to RAN. A few more games up front and he would probably have buried that chance last night.

 

[Sketchead]

Forgot to add, Boubacar is great at charging around and putting pressure on the opposition, and with that in mind I'm always pretty happy to see him coming on, but I've always found it baffling how he can't trap a ball or run with it just a few yards. If it's not a tackle or first time pass/hit, he can't seem to do it. Really strange.

A good backup midfielder in there though.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Forgot to add, Boubacar is great at charging around and putting pressure on the opposition, and with that in mind I'm always pretty happy to see him coming on, but I've always found it baffling how he can't trap a ball or run with it just a few yards. If it's not a tackle or first time pass/hit, he can't seem to do it. Really strange.

A good backup midfielder in there though.

I thought his performance when starting against Newcastle 2-2 was excellent but we haven’t got to see much of him since

 

[Jefe]

Kilman also put RAN through with a brilliant through ball which RAN had to score. i forgot though, RAN is the current poster boy and unable to be criticised whereas Kilman needs literally crucifying.

A stiff criticism of one of our best players, but undeniably true. A player couldn't ask for better chances than the one-on-ones against Villa and Burnley, yet he panicked and slapped both of them straight at the keeper when the opposite bottom corner was yawning. He scores those two, and we might well have been sitting on as many as 47 points. Seeing as we are fashioning him to be one of our main attacking outlets, he seriously needs to work on his finishing in training.

 

[JadeWolf]

Just one of those, the other aspects of Rayan’s game are so good, if he can improve his finishing he’ll be world class. Genuinely.