Brentford verdict

[Stourport wolf]

That is leadership!!!

Your job is viewed on the success of those beneath you! If they do well, you do well, you did your job well.

They do badly, your team does badly, often you chose the wrong people or didn’t set up for success… that always falls on the person who built the team and put the structures in place.

This is the problem for me. You blame Jeff for bad appointments, but don't give him the credit for the good ones.

It isn't balanced and Jeff is always going to be a **** in your books.

 

[wolfslair]

This is the problem for me. You blame Jeff for bad appointments, but don't give him the credit for the good ones.

It isn't balanced and Jeff is always going to be a **** in your books.

No……

He is break even for me…. I have said that in my reply!

You have ignored me multiple times say;

His positives, for building the brain trust that took us the prem, Europe and semi, the transfers, working with Jorge, bringing Nuno are exceptionally great and forever appreciative of that. He put the right people in place to bring success and good performance. So he did his part. Good leaders take the partial credit for the people below them being a success.

Then and I won’t go into the list of negatives in his performance since as it is pointless. But he has put the wrong people in the wrong slots, kept poor performers in post too long impacting on the players and the squad. He as the leader is accountable for those mistakes

 

[wolfslair]

This is the problem for me. You blame Jeff for bad appointments, but don't give him the credit for the good ones.

It isn't balanced and Jeff is always going to be a **** in your books.

Also actually read the post…. It says, he put the right people in post, he did well. In quick form…..

 

[maws]

There was a moment where Neto in the first half, got free on the byeline and flashed a wonderful cross across the six yard box. No-one anywhere near it for us. It made me wonder where else exactly our players thought he was going to put it? 10 yards outside the penalty box apparently? I dare say if Toney were a Wolves player it would have ended up in the net?

That’s exactly the one I was thinking about, Toney scored from a poachers position

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

No, I understood his posts. He is taking an isolated result to demonstrate that he is right and other people are wrong, without including the positive results.
Sasa and Fabio have never been the flavour of the month this season, so it isn't like we are worse off with out them. We are safe from relegation and have played pretty decent football this season. We tried to buy a striker, but the agent upped the commission at the last moment, so we carry on playing with what we have and we have done quite well up till now.
I would and am sure everyone wanted us to sign a new striker. I am just saying a loss against Brentford proves nothing. Our over all performances this season is what matters and we are doing fine.

But it’s not comparing like for like as we had Cunha in those games and now we don’t.

The variable to judge the decision not to bring a CF in could only be tested if we lost Cunha/Hwang. That’s happened. It’s obviously a bad decision but that bad decision can co-exist alongside good ones and good general form, it’s not binary.

The absence of a CF is likely to be a negative factor I’m not sure that can be argued (wait, forgot where I was )

 

[wolfslair]

That’s exactly the one I was thinking about, Toney scored from a poachers position

We had sasa who could have done that and scored twice. Once being a cross!

Without hwang who makes that run most , he would have been a great choice.

It isn’t the first time we have been playing like we want a man in the box.

Not on GON, he wanted it didn’t get it and lost his options

 

[Stourport wolf]

I don't really want to get into another Lopetegui debate.

I take your comments to Wolfslair as asking for balance, and looking at the bigger picture with Jeff Shi. Which I found ironic as it's exactly what you didn't go with Lopetegui.

Strange that you don't want a debate about him, but you have now mentioned him twice in different posts.

I stand by everything I posted about him and I find it ironic that you can't see the difference.

When he was our manager, I stood by him and didn't criticise him once. I didn't blame him when we lost once., but the poster who I am debating with blames Jeff after we lose a match and says he is to blame for things going wrong, but he isn’t solely responsible for when things go right.

If you can't see the difference there, I can't help you.

 

[Wolf316]

Strange that you don't want a debate about him, but you have now mentioned him twice in different posts.

I stand by everything I posted about him and I find it ironic that you can't see the difference.

When he was our manager, I stood by him and didn't criticise him once. I didn't blame him when we lost once., but the poster who I am debating with blames Jeff after we lose a match and says he is to blame for things going wrong, but he isn’t solely responsible for when things go right.

If you can't see the difference there, I can't help you.

Lopetegui is no longer our manager he’s gone it’s over and done with nothing left to debate. Jeff meanwhile is still here so can be debated.

 

[captain chaos]

Tbf the second goal was solely down to Dawson

What about Doyle bottling a challenge? Something that far too many of our players are guilty of.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

What about Doyle bottling a challenge? Something that far too many of our players are guilty of.

At the ground I thought it was atrocious by Dawson and all his fault.

Watching it back on TV, I agree with your point. It was still a terrible ball from Dawson but Doyle should have got there and at worst case made a foul. He did nothing.

 

[Stourport wolf]

But it’s not comparing like for like as we had Cunha in those games and now we don’t.

The variable to judge the decision not to bring a CF in could only be tested if we lost Cunha/Hwang. That’s happened. It’s obviously a bad decision but that bad decision can co-exist alongside good ones and good general form, it’s not binary.

The absence of a CF is likely to be a negative factor I’m not sure that can be argued (wait, forgot where I was )

We are doing well, generally playing good football and many people say they identify with the club again.
We like many clubs have new financial restraints. We had a striker lined up and the agent upped the price by an extra million on deadline day. The club made the decision not to be held to ransome and with us very unlikely to be relegated, I understand that decision.
I would have liked a new striker too, but the club know a lot more about our finances than any of is do.
I am generally happy where we are as a club at the moment and you do get genuinely good posters who criticised Jeff in the summer, because they were worried about the club, but they are generally happy about where we are as a club at the moment and don't jump on Jeff's back after a defeat, but look at the bigger picture.
If things go bad again, I am sure they will jump on Jeff's back again and they are entitled to.
The difference for me, is when you get posters who wait for the slightest thing not to go our way and then sprout their vitriol about Jeff, but when things are going well he isn’t solely responsible.
Of course people are entitled to their opinions, but it is just easier to understand the hate, if you know how the poster makes his judgements.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Yesterday is the kind of result that can happen. Wolves are a decent mid table team, but if we have an off day then defeat can be expected. Gary O’Neil hasn’t got the numbers to make too many changes, and is limited on rotation. To be 10th is a very good achievement, and if we finish the season in 10th place that will be very good indeed.

 

[SuperGran]

Yesterday is the kind of result that can happen. Wolves are a decent mid table team, but if we have an off day then defeat can be expected. Gary O’Neil hasn’t got the numbers to make too many changes, and is limited on rotation. To be 10th is a very good achievement, and if we finish the season in 10th place that will be very good indeed.

The voice of reason frank as always

 

[Mutchy]

Well, you can certainly tell we lost...

 

[Stourport wolf]

Lopetegui is no longer our manager he’s gone it’s over and done with nothing left to debate. Jeff meanwhile is still here so can be debated.

I think you need to read the posts again. It isn't me talking about him. I am replying to a poster who brought him up and I said there is no comparison.
Still nice to hear that there is nothing left to debate about him and he has gone. Lol.

 

[Timberrrr]

One thing that is for sure is that bellegarde is not a striker, very poor,

 

[lobodelsur]

The finances run by Jeff who is there because of his skills working for a financial company like fosun????

How is he not seeing these constant issues with budgets that keep moving the goal posts from potential signings to limited/no signings?

Bit worrying he is meant to be a finance guy, yet we had to have an urgent and knee jerk fire sale to avoid FFP punishment, something HE signed up to!!!!!

Jeff Shi's background is in IT, not finance.
We need to remember that in the greater picture we are but a tiny part of Fosun's overall operations. Unlike us, they don't sit there all day pondering over whether we need a no. 9 or not. And it probably says something about Shi's status (and influence ?) in Fosun that they shipped him off to England to manage a small-ish operation.

 

[wolfslair]

One thing that is for sure is that bellegarde is not a striker, very poor,

We have known that for a few weeks mate.

Not the players fault

 

[Stourport wolf]

The voice of reason frank as always

He gets better with maturity, does our Frank.

 

[wolfslair]

Jeff Shi's background is in IT, not finance.
We need to remember that in the greater picture we are but a tiny part of Fosun's overall operations. Unlike us, they don't sit there all day pondering over whether we need a no. 9 or not. And it probably says something about Shi's status (and influence ?) in Fosun that they shipped him off to England to manage a small-ish operation.

Thank you for that, I thought he was finance background.

That changes an element of my critique on the oversight of the finances.

 

[MickHolmesFanClub]

Having now heard GON's appraisal of the match, I would 100% agree with him. If we were going to lose to Brentford that's exactly how it would look. It reminded me of a couple of seasons ago actually when, again, they beat us 2-0.

It was, hopefully, just an 'off day' but the biggest worry is the injury to Cunha. Once again, it showed how important he is to the team.

He is possibly a victim of the 'fatigue' that some of us were worried about when we failed to land another striker in the window. I think he's started every single PL game this season and has borne the brunt the workload in the last month or so whilst Hwang has been away and Neto has been easing back into playing 90 minutes. It looked like a hamstring to me from the stands but, fingers crossed it's just a 'tweak' and nothing more. I will do my best to find out an update in the next couple of days.

Aside from the majority of the players having an off day, I think GON got a couple of his subs wrong. To me, Fraser was the obvious candidate to come on when Cunha went off and I was also perplexed that he took Gomes off. Hard to be too critical however on the back of one poor performance.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

What about Doyle bottling a challenge? Something that far too many of our players are guilty of.

Dawson put him in that position with a very poor pass
Doyle was on his heels and caught between flying into a tackle,which isnt his job,and trying to slow up the attack by shepherding him to the outside
They played it fast and accurate resulting in the goal
Its easy in hindsight to say he should have taken one for the team,but had he done so at the time everyone would say there was no need and no danger where he was
For me its down to Dawsons bad pass and Brentfords fast thinking

 

[Premier Quality]

Welcome to a forum….. people have different opinions to each other based on what they see…

Some see only positives or spin to the positive.

Others have another perspective.

Telling people to “step away” is a bit censorship like isn’t it mate……

Enjoy discussion and debate with those on a forum, if you only want to see positive and happy crappy, then question what a forum does if that is what you expect

It’s just a bit boring tbh, but if that’s what makes you happy, you crack on.

 

[captain chaos]

Dawson put him in that position with a very poor pass
Doyle was on his heels and caught between flying into a tackle,which isnt his job,and trying to slow up the attack by shepherding him to the outside
They played it fast and accurate resulting in the goal
Its easy in hindsight to say he should have taken one for the team,but had he done so at the time everyone would say there was no need and no danger where he was
For me its down to Dawsons bad pass and Brentfords fast thinking

I did actually say it at the time it’s one of my pet hates with our players.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

He gets better with maturity, does our Frank.

That is a very polite way of saying I am an old codger.

 

[wolfslair]

In this article he says he was made head of IT with Fosun, before he came to Wolves.

Jeff Shi: We nearly bought West Brom and Nuno was going to be boss!

In the first of a two-part serialisation of the new book by Johnny Phillips and Paul Berry, Wolves executive chairman Jeff Shi reveals how Fosun were set to buy arch rivals Albion before a certain Jorge Mendes stepped in.

www.shropshirestar.com

Always happy to admit wrong opinion or stance on something based on bad info when correct facts shown.

 

[Stourport wolf]

Ce]

Always happy to admit wrong opinion or stance on something based on bad info when correct facts shown.

managing director of investment in charge of the internet industry,, so probably finance.

 

[steve vena]

I'd certainly sell Kilman for £40m if West Ham want to pay that. He's largely been good for us in the PL but he's replaceable, especially if we had that sort of money.

I would too.

 

[Wagstaffe Was Magic]

We’re punching W A Y above our weight at the moment !!!

We need reinforcements badly especially at the sharp end

 

[steve vena]

We’re punching W A Y above our weight at the moment !!!

We need reinforcements badly especially at the sharp end

Agree mate.

 

[OLDGOLD]

One thing that is for sure is that bellegarde is not a striker, very poor,

Adama lite.

 

[Banks's Mild]

Random observations from yesterday

Sa needs replacing 100% for me. I’m finding watching him incredibly frustrating. Looks capable of producing a worldie or dropping an absolute ******* at any moment. His kicking is truly awful. Just gives me no confidence at all, and surely I can’t be alone?

I very much preferred the Bellagarde we signed back in Aug who debuted against Liverpool to this current one I’m watching. Being brutal, I think playing him all over the shop week after week really seems to have damaged him. I’ve zero anticipation whatsoever when the bloke gets the ball at the moment. He’s either passing it backwards or losing it.

Fraser should be out on loan. Its pretty poor that we find ourselves in a position where he’s pretty much our only actual attacking option from the bench? If Cunhas injury is a bad one, and god forbid, there are any issues with either Hwang or Neto, you could really see us struggling for goals. Given that we are hardly running a tight ship at the back, we might then find our run in to be a very long one? Would be really sad if this season were to peter out?

New GK, CB and CF needed in the Summer. There can be no fannying about, even if we must wait till after June.

Agree with all of this. Sa and the defence leak too many goals this season and the main difference to last season is Neves not being there to help them out and almost play like an extra defender at times, the problem with that being lack of goals scored of course. I dont think individually there is a lot between the 3 centre backs but as a defensive unit we are missing a player better than all of them and no disrespect to Max but also a real leader, this along with a better keeper would make us a lot harder to score against and then add a new decent centre forward to the current squad and we would then potentially be able to challenge for the European spots.
They are all fine too a point for where we are but don't think we will improve without some changes so not slagging any of them off as such.
Yesterday for me was just one of those days but did highlight the weaknesses in the team but even then on another day that game could have gone either way particularly if Dawson's goal hadn't unfortunately been a fraction off side.
I am still happy that we are a mid (ish) table side with all that went on last summer and hopeful with a few additions and the manager with a whole season with us under his belt can kick on even more next season, but also hope we can still enjoy some more decent performances and wins and who knows a cup run to the final this season though if it does start to peter out it still has been better than I certainly expected.

 

[Wisdomwolf]

Thank you for that, I thought he was finance background.

That changes an element of my critique on the oversight of the finances.

For the record - Shi has held the roles of Secretary General Fosun Banking & Insurance Group as well as Senior Investment Director, Fosun Group. I think you might find he knows a bit about finance.

 

[jrpb-3]

Agree with all of this. Sa and the defence leak too many goals this season and the main difference to last season is Neves not being there to help them out and almost play like an extra defender at times, the problem with that being lack of goals scored of course. I dont think individually there is a lot between the 3 centre backs but as a defensive unit we are missing a player better than all of them and no disrespect to Max but also a real leader, this along with a better keeper would make us a lot harder to score against and then add a new decent centre forward to the current squad and we would then potentially be able to challenge for the European spots.
They are all fine too a point for where we are but don't think we will improve without some changes so not slagging any of them off as such.
Yesterday for me was just one of those days but did highlight the weaknesses in the team but even then on another day that game could have gone either way particularly if Dawson's goal hadn't unfortunately been a fraction off side.
I am still happy that we are a mid (ish) table side with all that went on last summer and hopeful with a few additions and the manager with a whole season with us under his belt can kick on even more next season, but also hope we can still enjoy some more decent performances and wins and who knows a cup run to the final this season though if it does start to peter out it still has been better than I certainly expected.

we've been playing a more attacking style of football, so now scoring a lot more goals, but has also meant we have sacrificed some extra cover at the back. On the whole this season the balance between the two has been right and we've still won a lot of games we've conceded in. Yesterdays goals were just bad goals to give away, as not due to us attacking and getting stretched at the back, but a free header from a corner, and us giving the ball away in a dangerous position allowing a good move and goal from them for the second. Against Man U was one of the games where the balance between attack and defense wasn't quite right, We gambled on pushing forward for more attacking threat, but then got caught out at the back on the break. Another forward to add something different, and as additional cover for Cunha and Hwang would be good, but an upgrade or two in defense would probably help results more, i.e. not conceding the first goal and having to chase games (which to be fair we've done well at)

 

[Sutton Wolf]

That one’s on Shi. The absence of a centre forward for us, and the presence of one for them, was the decisive factor.

Two home games and we’ve let in 6 goals. I think we need a couple of defenders that can defend.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Two home games and we’ve let in 6 goals. I think we need a couple of defenders that can defend.

The downside of being more attacking is being more open at the back.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Two home games and we’ve let in 6 goals. I think we need a couple of defenders that can defend.

Giving Saiss away seems more stupid game by game

 

[QB Wolf]

From 1984 to 2016 = 32 years we had 4 seasons in the Prem, 1 under SJH 3 under SM. Since 2016 - 8 years under Fosun we've had 5 seasons on the bounce and will have a 6th.

Fosun and Jeff have done a very good job.

 

[AndyY]

When you have such a small squad with little real competition and cover for places I think it’s inevitable that there are poor performances every so often, particularly after a good run.
I don’t expect much out of the Spurs game tbh either!

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

We are doing well, generally playing good football and many people say they identify with the club again.
We like many clubs have new financial restraints. We had a striker lined up and the agent upped the price by an extra million on deadline day. The club made the decision not to be held to ransome and with us very unlikely to be relegated, I understand that decision.
I would have liked a new striker too, but the club know a lot more about our finances than any of is do.
I am generally happy where we are as a club at the moment and you do get genuinely good posters who criticised Jeff in the summer, because they were worried about the club, but they are generally happy about where we are as a club at the moment and don't jump on Jeff's back after a defeat, but look at the bigger picture.
If things go bad again, I am sure they will jump on Jeff's back again and they are entitled to.
The difference for me, is when you get posters who wait for the slightest thing not to go our way and then sprout their vitriol about Jeff, but when things are going well he isn’t solely responsible.
Of course people are entitled to their opinions, but is just easier to understand the hate, if you know how the poster makes his judgements.

I agree with the FFP point and we shouldn’t have overspent, but we should’ve kept Sasa if this was going to be a plausible eventuality.

Hopefully Cunha gets better or Hwang returns and it’s a non-point