Better CBs than Kilman in PL?

[Nivada]

Craig Dawson

 

[Peszkywolf]

Yeah, agreed.

A few clamouring for a back 3 against Newcastle now, but a couple of sides have played that at their place and been beaten fairly easily this season.

Probably another one to start 4-3-3, feel the game out and leave it to Julen to make the necessary impact changes again!

But was that Newcastle before Xmas or after? They're a different kettle of fish since, don't score and can't keep a clean sheet.

 

[Peszkywolf]

Better CBs?
Van Dijk, Gabriel, Salina, Thiego Silva, Schar, Dias, Varane. Not many more than that.

 

[reanswolf]

Kilman has been superb since Dawson arrived.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Better CBs?
Van Dijk, Gabriel, Salina, Thiego Silva, Schar, Dias, Varane. Not many more than that.

No offence meant but I think that’s gold tinted glasses there. Kilman is decent but he’s not in the top half of cb’s in the division. Even much derided ones like Stones, Maguire, Mings, Dier are above him. Laporte, Ake, Konarte, Anderson, a fit Boly all off the top of my head.

 

[DJLWolf]

No offence meant but I think that’s gold tinted glasses there. Kilman is decent but he’s not in the top half of cb’s in the division. Even much derided ones like Stones, Maguire, Mings, Dier are above him. Laporte, Ake, Konarte, Anderson, a fit Boly all off the top of my head.

Mings?!

Now I know you're joking with that list!

 

[JOSWolf]

Mings?!

Now I know you're joking with that list!

Boly when fit was replaced by Kilman as well. As for Mings he is better than some say but not better than Kilman in my opinion.

 

[JOSWolf]

For the record there are a number of centre backs better than him in the Premier League but he has done better in recent weeks. Dawson must be a big help.

 

[Supadavewolf]

Comparisons are often meaningless because of the specific context(s) around which they're based.

Mighty Maximilian as a PL-quality CB? Right player at the right club at the right time.

 

[AndyY]

stick with four based on newcastle’s system.

play an energetic three in midfield, and keep Traore and Moutinho until 60.

Crikey, we are moaning about Moutinho's legs having gone now, let alone playing him (and Traore) playing until he is 60!

 

[WickedWolfie]

Crikey, we are moaning about Moutinho's legs having gone now, let alone playing him (and Traore) playing until he is 60!

By that time there will be 21 on the bench, 15 allowed to be substituted on, and Mouts will be coming on for a cameo 5 mins at the end of games lol....

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Mings?!

Now I know you're joking with that list!

Yet mings has 17 international caps in a period where Max has been nowhere near making a squad.

 

[Wolfmeister75]

Without getting carried away, write a list of better CBs in premier League I'll start:


..end of list

Just noticed we have conceded fewest goals in the league and remember for most of last season we had one of the best defences. (Admittedly that will change after city game).

This season he has lost the voice of Coady next to him and had to adapt to a back 4.

I'm serious, he is still young and his ability on the ball is top.

So who would you swap him for? Van Dijk? Dias? Certainly no one at Utd or Spurs.

I got slaughtered a few weeks ago suggesting Killman should retain his place and not Collins. Kilman is potentially a top 4 defender, got absolutely everything in his locker. You don’t see many defenders as good on the ball either. He’s a unit who can play alright.

 

[DJLWolf]

Yet mings has 17 international caps in a period where Max has been nowhere near making a squad.

What does Mings have in common with Seth Johnson, Anthony Gardner, Zat Knight and Steve Guppy?

They also all played for England and they're all ####.

A few England caps proves nothing.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

What does Mings have in common with Seth Johnson, Anthony Gardner, Zat Knight and Steve Guppy?

They also all played for England and they're all ####.

A few England caps proves nothing.

Apart from the fact that Mings has more caps than those players put together and indeed Kilman.

I’m not saying Mings is Bobby Moore but to think Kilman is better is just laughable or to think he is somehow in the top 10 centre backs in the league.

 

[DJLWolf]

Apart from the fact that Mings has more caps than those players put together and indeed Kilman.

I’m not saying Mings is Bobby Moore but to think Kilman is better is just laughable or to think he is somehow in the top 10 centre backs in the league.

Players get England caps based on many circumstances - age, form at certain times of the season, the balance of the squad as a whole, when squads are announced, formations they play at club level, loyalty etc etc.

We all know that one of the main reasons kilman didn't get in was because he hadn't had a lot of premier league experience under his belt and critically that experience was all focused around playing in a back 5, which Southgate had been trying to move away from.

The only thing that's laughable is you claiming mings is better than kilman because he's got a few England caps, pretty much all of which were in non competitive games against the likes of Kosovo.

If you plainly think Mings is just a better centre back than kilman, fair enough - that's your opinion.However, to use the fact he's played for England and Kilman hasn't as your reasoning is embarrassing.

 

[justanotherwolf]

Apart from the fact that Mings has more caps than those players put together and indeed Kilman.

I’m not saying Mings is Bobby Moore but to think Kilman is better is just laughable or to think he is somehow in the top 10 centre backs in the league.

Mings for England really is a 'right place right time' thing though. Got in the squad when there was a dearth of centre-back options and Southgate sees him (probably rightly) as a good guy to have around the squad / to come on for a few mins if needed or to play against San Marino away.

Whether or not you agree with the approach, he's a known quantity to the England staff, rated as a person, and that's reflected in him and Coady getting picked every time - not much to do with week-in-week out performances.

Agree there's a few better CBs than Kilman in the league but Mings isn't one of them.

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

Apart from the fact that Mings has more caps than those players put together and indeed Kilman.

I’m not saying Mings is Bobby Moore but to think Kilman is better is just laughable or to think he is somehow in the top 10 centre backs in the league.

Agree not top 10 at all

Konate
Van Dijk
Varane
Martinez
Thiago Silva
Botman
Koulibaly
Dawson
Romero
Dias
Laporte
Akanji
Saliba
Tomiyasu (at CB)

Are better imo.

But Mings has the situational awareness of Prince Andrew and is even worse under pressure

 

[Monketron]

He's playing as well now as when he was close to an England call up. He dropped off a bit back then for sure but having Dawson next to him is definitely helping no end.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Ming's was like Coady got in the squad cause England was desperate...And were ok to play in the pointless games like Andorra.....it doesn't make them good.....players get caps these days because of needing a bigger squad with meaningless games to play ...

 

[DJLWolf]

Agree not top 10 at all

Konate
Van Dijk
Varane
Martinez
Thiago Silva
Botman
Koulibaly
Dawson
Dias
Laporte
Akanji
Saliba
Tomiyasu (at CB)

Are better imo.

But Mings has the situational awareness of Prince Andrew and is even worse under pressure

Essentially agree with this.

All I would add is that half of that list is 30+ so within a couple of years kilman will be ahead of them.

Also, in regards to some of the younger centre backs, how good would kilman look if he was playing for man city, Liverpool or arsenal and how good would they look if they were thrown in this wolves team?

I would suggest that experiment could alter the list significantly!

If kilman had been at a man city or an arsenal for the last 2/3 years he would more than likely have 30-40 England caps.

 

[glorybox]

Agree not top 10 at all

Konate
Van Dijk
Varane
Martinez
Thiago Silva
Botman
Koulibaly
Dawson
Dias
Laporte
Akanji
Saliba
Tomiyasu (at CB)

Are better imo.

But Mings has the situational awareness of Prince Andrew and is even worse under pressure

Tomiyasu is gash.

 

[wwbug]

A good functional PL CB who needs an leader playing alongside.

 

[Peszkywolf]

Agree not top 10 at all

Konate
Van Dijk
Varane
Martinez
Thiago Silva
Botman
Koulibaly
Dawson
Dias
Laporte
Akanji
Saliba
Tomiyasu (at CB)

Are better imo.

But Mings has the situational awareness of Prince Andrew and is even worse under pressure

So about 4 more than I could think up.....

Not many English players in that list are there?!

 

[Peszkywolf]

A good functional PL CB who needs an leader playing alongside.

Most do until they're 28/29 in the Prem. Best league in the world, takes a few years of experience to get used to it, then a few more to organise the other defenders. And Kilman has played in a team that's been all over the place last 2 years & backs to the wall for a lot of that time.

 

[WalsallWolf]

Do think we are overdoing it with Kilman. He has done well in recent weeks but he has still not yet imo reached the heights he got to in late 2021. I still think in a two he looks like he has a mistake in him and he lacks the aggression you need, although Dawson has in fairness balanced that out on the back line.

Jonny being back too is a plus for that reason. He has some no nonsense defending skills which we have missed.

With Kilman, as a right sided centre half in a 3 he was excellent.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

The problem has been Collins trying to be everywhere when he shouldn't be. Dawson has done well but hasn't been faultless by any means. For me Kilman is still our best centre half.

 

[DJLWolf]

The problem has been Collins trying to be everywhere when he shouldn't be. Dawson has done well but hasn't been faultless by any means. For me Kilman is still our best centre half.

Agreed.

A lot of fans like the lad but Collins is a headless chicken.I don't blame him though, he has very, very little professional experience and it shows.

 

[FJRWolf]

Dawson has made a big difference to both Kilman and Collins imo. Don't think there is much difference between the two youngsters, both have the occasional brain fart.
I'm still a bit concerned about Kilmans lack of aggressiveness and determination.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Certainly going OTT with Kilman imo
Yes hes potentially a very good CB and having a decent run at the moment,but it was only a few weeks back that he was really struggling and people were moaning about his lack of desire
He still very young for that position probable 2/3 years from his peak but he is showing hes very comfortable with the ball and pretty secure in the air all great attributes for the position
He needs to be more confident and aggressive and is not a natural leader type like Dawson or indeed Collins so can learn a lot from them as they can from him
Top ten no,top 20 just about imo

 

[Peszkywolf]

Maybe going a tad OTT with Kilman.....but he's still better than Mings.

 

[Golden_Wolf]

Dawson has made a big difference to both Kilman and Collins imo. Don't think there is much difference between the two youngsters, both have the occasional brain fart.
I'm still a bit concerned about Kilmans lack of aggressiveness and determination.

Wouldn't worry about Max determination. Playing through the broken nose the last few games, showing plenty of grit.

 

[Perton Wolf]

The problem has been Collins trying to be everywhere when he shouldn't be. Dawson has done well but hasn't been faultless by any means. For me Kilman is still our best centre half.

Dawson is our best CB, evidenced by the fact that Kilman has looked a lot better since playing next to him. He looked relatively poor and shaky next to Collins.

Put Collins next to Dawson and I still think he'd look fairly solid, Kilman wouldn't.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Dawson is our best CB, evidenced by the fact that Kilman has looked a lot better since playing next to him. He looked relatively poor and shaky next to Collins.

Put Collins next to Dawson and I still think he'd look fairly solid, Kilman wouldn't.

I don't think he would. Semedo, Jonny et al didn't look solid next to him.

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

So about 4 more than I could think up.....

Not many English players in that list are there?!

True I think Stones has been lately but he was also crap for a long time. The one I think is definitely better doesn’t play in the PL and that is Tomori.

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

Tomiyasu is gash.

No he’s very good at CB (hence the qualification). He’s played RB for Arsenal. Have you ever seen him play CB?

 

[glorybox]

No he’s very good at CB (hence the qualification). He’s played RB for Arsenal. Have you ever seen him play CB?

Sorry i don't understand the argument. He doesn't play CB. So how can a player who never plays CB in the Premier League and is gash at RB be better than Kilman at CB?

 

[optimuswolf]

The problem has been Collins trying to be everywhere when he shouldn't be. Dawson has done well but hasn't been faultless by any means. For me Kilman is still our best centre half.

Collins is a bit hyperactive isn't he. I think he'll improve lots over the next 2-3 years but if you look at the really top centrebacks they may be aggressive, but they're all pretty calm too.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

On todays showing, not many. It was like watching Maldini with his anticipation and reading of the game. As perfect a performance from a Wolves CB as I can remember

 

[Gazebowolf]

On todays showing, not many. It was like watching Maldini with his anticipation and reading of the game. As perfect a performance from a Wolves CB as I can remember

Dawson was a lot better than Kilman today, Kilman is still far too passive and doesn't engage as much as he should.