Back 4 & defensive issues

[Oliwolf44]

We should NOT be moving away from this new experiment yet as it has produced our most exciting football of the season and allows us to play to our strength in getting more attacking wide players in. However is it time to bring in the players who are in form? As good as boly has been for us he has looked really out of sorts for a while now. A back 4 of
Hoever
Kilman
Coady
Marcal
This seems like an option to me as semedo cant defend and why not give hoever a go. Marcal solid at LB and Kilman impressed every time he played. Rui is not a keeper that comes off his line to clear so a deeper back line with those solid players would do for me. We look so open at the moment and have been conceding at an uncharacteristic rate.
Let the creativity then come from the front three who can give anyone in the league problems on their day.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Keep the Same back 4 .

just play a striker instead of neves

 

[Bugsy911]

Coady IMHO shouldnt be anywhere near a back 4,r isolate him and goals will follow if we are to stick with a back 4 it must be the above with Boly in it and drilled into them they cannot vacate the centre like they do in a 3 ...that caused 2 of the goals tonight and is really basic stuff.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

So hard. For me Semedo was bought as a WB and 10 games in we've stopped playing with WBs. If Silva is a long term plan who can't start even when we have no real alternative and we're switching to a 4 that doesn't suit Semedo, then we've just spent £70m to not improve the side. Then we have to consider whether our talisman can play on a 4, or indeed our best CH.

So yes we have to go to a 4 to move on as a team, but I'm not sure we can with the squad we have. Not against the top 6 anyway.

So thank God we have someone who knows what they're doing running the club and not me!

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

The only player who fills me with confidence in a back 4 is Marcal
This isn't based on just tonight but we look far too vulnerable in a back 4, the amount of times Arsenal got to the byline against us was a concern and tonight Liverpool exploited our right side constantly.

We talk up our creativity but I don't believe we can score enough goals to warrant leaving ourselves short at the back

 

[Wagstaffe Was Magic]

Coady can’t play in a four! Period.

 

[wolvesjoe]

Bit of a silly argument when a team has just been beaten 4-0 not to think that maybe sticking with a successful formula for over three years would have been a good idea up against one of the best attacks in the world.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

We should NOT be moving away from this new experiment yet as it has produced our most exciting football of the season and allows us to play to our strength in getting more attacking wide players in. However is it time to bring in the players who are in form? As good as boly has been for us he has looked really out of sorts for a while now. A back 4 of
Hoever
Kilman
Coady
Marcal
This seems like an option to me as semedo cant defend and why not give hoever a go. Marcal solid at LB and Kilman impressed every time he played. Rui is not a keeper that comes off his line to clear so a deeper back line with those solid players would do for me. We look so open at the moment and have been conceding at an uncharacteristic rate.
Let the creativity then come from the front three who can give anyone in the league problems on their day.

I thought our best performance was against palace personally.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Bit of a silly argument when a team has just been beaten 4-0 not to think that maybe sticking with a successful formula for over three years would have been a good idea up against one of the best attacks in the world.

True....but we have lost 4 times against Liverpool with 5atb so I don't blame Nuno for trying something different

 

[Oliwolf44]

Ait nouri and semedo both have to be WB so can see them being brought in as a back five if we play a back 5 against better teams. I just feel Nuno knows the future of modern football is goals goals goals. Gonna get a soft penalty given against you at some point trying to preserve. Best way to stop teams scoring is having the ball yourself. No possession based side really ever played with a back 5. This evolution we are supposedly on ends with 4 at the back. So why we've signed WB's i dont know.

 

[Tring Wolf]

Way too small a sample size to make conclusions on. Coady had a shocker tonight but was magnificent last week. Boly similar (though neither quite as good as Coady last week nor quite as bad as him tonight).

My only criticism so far is that the whole point of moving to a four was to give us more attacking options (and accepting that may rob us of a bit of the defensive stability that we have traditionally had under Nuno). Last week, we saw the benefits of having Traore, Neto and Podence all playing off a focal point.

If we’re going to play with a four but go with a 4-3-3 with a midfield of Neves, Moutinho and Dendoncker, then in my opinion, that doesn’t give us sufficient ‘extra’ in our attacking options to justify that trade-off with disrupting our defensive solidity.

To me, you either embrace it fully and go with a 4-2-3-1. Or stick with a back three and accept that we’re not going to be quite as adventurous going forward.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Ait nouri and semedo both have to be WB so can see them being brought in as a back five if we play a back 5 against better teams. I just feel Nuno knows the future of modern football is goals goals goals. Gonna get a soft penalty given against you at some point trying to preserve. Best way to stop teams scoring is having the ball yourself. No possession based side really ever played with a back 5. This evolution we are supposedly on ends with 4 at the back. So why we've signed WB's i dont know.

The best teams play with WBs in a back 4. The Dm can slot in with the 2 CBs when in possession making a hybrid of the 2 systems. Both City and Liverpool do it.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Way too small a sample size to make conclusions on. Coady had a shocker tonight but was magnificent last week. Boly similar (though neither quite as good as Coady last week nor quite as bad as him tonight).

My only criticism so far is that the whole point of moving to a four was to give us more attacking options (and accepting that may rob us of a bit of the defensive stability that we have traditionally had under Nuno). Last week, we saw the benefits of having Traore, Neto and Podence all playing off a focal point.

If we’re going to play with a four but go with a 4-3-3 with a midfield of Neves, Moutinho and Dendoncker, then in my opinion, that doesn’t give us sufficient ‘extra’ in our attacking options to justify that trade-off with disrupting our defensive solidity.

To me, you either embrace it fully and go with a 4-2-3-1. Or stick with a back three and accept that we’re not going to be quite as adventurous going forward.

Yep.

for me you just have to play a striker. It’s pointless going down the sides if we don’t have a central point to aim for.

It has to be 4 2 3 1 against every side, except spurs man city Chelsea and Liverpool where we can play 3 4 3(but with a striker)

 

[Oliwolf44]

The best teams play with WBs in a back 4. The Dm can slot in with the 2 CBs when in possession making a hybrid of the 2 systems. Both City and Liverpool do it.

Yep correct, got carried away there. Just that Semedo was laughed out of town at Barcelona for his defensive attributes. Cant have him an aitnouri (looks great prospect just not ready yet) as the fullbacks otherwise there is more 4-0 on the way.

 

[Flea]

Semedo is a walking talking living footballing disaster.
He cannot defend and he offers nothing in attack.He must be dropped pronto and we are going to have to balance the 35 Mill loss we will take on him regarding this transfer.
Willy Boly doesn´t deserve to be playing ahead of Max Kilman.
Boly has not been the same player since his injury and he looks and feels like a liability in match after match.

Conor Coady has been overall class for us and Marcal has done very few things wrong.
Our current and ongoing defensive problems is Nelson Semedo and Willy Boly.
They both needs to be dropped.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Semedo is a walking talking living footballing disaster.
He cannot defend and he offers nothing in attack.He must be dropped pronto and we are going to have to balance the 35 Mill loss we will take on him regarding this transfer.
Willy Boly doesn´t deserve to be playing ahead of Max Kilman.
Boly has not been the same player since his injury and he looks and feels like a liability in match after match.

Conor Coady has been overall class for us and Marcal has done very few things wrong.
Our current and ongoing defensive problems is Nelson Semedo and Willy Boly.
They both needs to be dropped.

Semedo definitely should be dropped Boly is not a right sided defender maybe bring Dendoncker into the back 5?

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I don’t think the system was the issue last night.

The first goal was a horrendous mistake, it’s nothing to do with the position.

The second technically might be but it was also a lot of bad luck. We won the ball and it breaks for them, and how often does Wijnaldum curl them in the top corner from outside the box?

For me, the bigger issues were the way we fell apart at 2-0 and the lack of attacking threat throughout that made their goals inevitable as the pressure builds.

I do think we should be able to adapt though, and I’d rather we played a back three in tougher games.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

So hard. For me Semedo was bought as a WB and 10 games in we've stopped playing with WBs. If Silva is a long term plan who can't start even when we have no real alternative and we're switching to a 4 that doesn't suit Semedo, then we've just spent £70m to not improve the side. Then we have to consider whether our talisman can play on a 4, or indeed our best CH.

So yes we have to go to a 4 to move on as a team, but I'm not sure we can with the squad we have. Not against the top 6 anyway.

So thank God we have someone who knows what they're doing running the club and not me!

Semedo has played his entire career as a full back

 

[goldfish]

We need to be able to switch between the two, both between games and in games when necessary.

So often in the past we've played a team with one up top and had two centre-halves spare. That's completely unnecessary, and we should go 4 at the back in those games (provided the players can do it). But where we're up against a team like Liverpool, going to 3/5 at the back seems obvious to me.

 

[WolfLing]

The thing is, when we play 3 centre backs and play badly, people say we don't have enough going forward.

But when we play 2 centre backs in a back 4 and play badly, people say we have defensive problems.

There are games where we've played 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 that we've looked devastating going forward, but there were also games where we looked toothless.

It doesn't really matter how we set up, it's how we play that's important!

 

[WolvTown]

Coady shouldn't be the reason why we don't continue to try a back four, if the manager wants to continue.
Drop him, teach him, bring him back if he's good enough.
I wanted Kilman in for coady before the match and didnt see anything that would change my mind.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Semedo has played his entire career as a full back

Don’t let facts get in the way of a good moan

 

[A3wolf]

We don’t keep enough players back when we have a corner against a fast counter attacking team.

 

[Norwegian Wolf]

Sorry, but I must be missing something about needing 4 at the back all of a sudden. In the past couple of years we have beaten Liverpool. Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Tottenham, Leicester, Arsenal etc with 3 at the back. Did I imagine that?

Coady is better in a back 3, Boly is better in a back 3 and Semedo looks better with someone behind him in a back 3 and yet we are seriously discussing playing those 3 in a flat back four?

The problem with the lack of creativity in the team since last season has never been about the back 3. It has always been about having no one within 30 yards of Raul when he received the ball. Our best spell since promotion was from Dec 2018 onwards when Raul played in a 2 upfront with Jota. Raul & Jota both become much more effective players as a central partnership and got us to a Cup Semi and the Europa League.

The same applies now. Our two most dangerous and creative players are Neto and Traore. Both out on the wing with either a 5ft 5 winger or a teenage rookie as targets in the middle.

Put Neto and Traore together upfront and watch them cause problems in and around the box, not 40 yards out on the touchline. Play 3 at the back, push the wing backs forward and have Podence or Vitinha breaking at pace from midfield. The defence has never been the problem, it is the big gaps between our forwards up front.

 

[Direwolf]

I have little faith in Coady as one of two centre halves. His ability to head the ball, out muscle attackers, and shield the ball is not good enough. As a sweeper in a back three he is fine but players like Mane, Antonio, Ings and many others are going to have him on toast.

 

[Contrada Lupa]

Remember Semedo plays in a back four for Portugal and did really well against France and Croatia recently. He does look like a confidence player who needs careful management though.

Marcal has been solid for most of the time in the last two games but was responsible for two of the last five goals against by losing his man for regulation crosses into the box. That's one thing that troubles me: we seem to be more vulnerable in the air than we were with the previous defensive formation.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Remember Semedo plays in a back four for Portugal and did really well against France and Croatia recently. He does look like a confidence player who needs careful management though.

Marcal has been solid for most of the time in the last two games but was responsible for two of the last five goals against by losing his man for regulation crosses into the box. That's one thing that troubles me: we seem to be more vulnerable in the air than we were with the previous defensive formation.

Watch the liverpool game back you will see Semedo is in the CB position a lot due to our Cbs not being in position. He isnt the problem.

 

[Woburn Wolf]

Way too small a sample size to make conclusions on. Coady had a shocker tonight but was magnificent last week. Boly similar (though neither quite as good as Coady last week nor quite as bad as him tonight).

My only criticism so far is that the whole point of moving to a four was to give us more attacking options (and accepting that may rob us of a bit of the defensive stability that we have traditionally had under Nuno). Last week, we saw the benefits of having Traore, Neto and Podence all playing off a focal point.

If we’re going to play with a four but go with a 4-3-3 with a midfield of Neves, Moutinho and Dendoncker, then in my opinion, that doesn’t give us sufficient ‘extra’ in our attacking options to justify that trade-off with disrupting our defensive solidity.

To me, you either embrace it fully and go with a 4-2-3-1. Or stick with a back three and accept that we’re not going to be quite as adventurous going forward.

If we can sign someone like Maxi in January I would like to see us go to 4-2-3-1. It would be asking a lot of Fabio to lead the line every week at his age.

 

[92WWFC]

The idea that Semedo and Ait-Nouri can only play in a back 5 is daft. Both have played in back 4s their entire careers!!

Both will just have to adapt Semedo for sure can has been class for portugal in a back 4 including recently against france. Ait Nouri just needs to bulk up and he'll be fine and Marcal is here for a more reliable defender in place for now.

This just seems like an overreaction to losing to the best attacking talent in the league with a new formation. Nuno will get the defence drilled I'm sure if it

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Its always going to take time to bed in a new formation and for a while it will look a bit shaky. The world club champions with arguably the best set of attacking players arent really the team to use as a battering stick for it not working.

We played exclusive 3 at the back under Nuno and players like Boly and Coady have to adapt to playing in a 4, similarly the midfield play a slightly different role in a 4 as well. Now is the time to be brave though and keep going with it as it will reap the benefits long term.

 

[Golden Arrow]

Don’t let facts get in the way of a good moan

Interested to know who you would field (and in what formation), as personally I'm losing the plot.

 

[Glow69]

So within a week Coady has gone from been able to play in a back four to not having a clue. Great stuff a usual.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

So within a week Coady has gone from been able to play in a back four to not having a clue. Great stuff a usual.

Its like a comedy sketch on here after a defeat to the world club champions. My personal favourite was who ever said Ait-Nouri and Semedo are both wing backs and not full backs. Both have exclusively played as standard full back in their career.

 

[Norwegian Wolf]

Ah, 5 at the back and pace in attack...I've missed you recently, welcome back, please don't go again.

 

[superwolves]

5 for the teams who let us counter attack on them. 4 for the burnley type games where we will need to make more of the running

 

[maws]

Can we now agree it’s the players that are the issue, not the amount of players?

Personally I’d rather we stick with 4 as we created chances with 4 whereas with 5 we are knocking it sidewards backwards sideward backward for fun