Arsenal and wolves ..the difference??

[waveney wolf]

Just watching Arsenal on match of the day , and where there players came from ...
I think 4 of yesterday's team ( ramsdale , zinchenko , trossard , white ) were bought having had much premier League experience ( plus the injured Jesus ) ....on the other end of the scale , I think 4 players came through the arsenal academy.
Compare that to wolves yesterday,,,1 player ,Dawson , who came to wolves from a premier League club ,plus Collins when he came on .
And as for the other end of the scale , not a single academy player in sight.
Is this where we are going wrong??
Do we have a scouting system?..or is it just in Portugal?

 

[Cousins78]

We have just beaten spurs and you come up with this dross. Arsenal are recruiting in a different category to us. The players you have listed would not come to us

 

[Wolf316]

Just watching Arsenal on match of the day , and where there players came from ...
I think 4 of yesterday's team ( ramsdale , zinchenko , trossard , white ) were bought having had much premier League experience ( plus the injured Jesus ) ....on the other end of the scale , I think 4 players came through the arsenal academy.
Compare that to wolves yesterday,,,1 player ,Dawson , who came to wolves from a premier League club ,plus Collins when he came on .
And as for the other end of the scale , not a single academy player in sight.
Is this where we are going wrong??
Do we have a scouting system?..or is it just in Portugal?

Lemina has been phenomenal and has premier league experience yet he was turned down by Bruno

 

[djmikeydickens]

It doesn't matter where the players come from it's if they are good enough and have decent coaching/managing. Look at Brighton, no one has heard of any of the players they sign before they come but they all fit the system they play

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Just watching Arsenal on match of the day , and where there players came from ...
I think 4 of yesterday's team ( ramsdale , zinchenko , trossard , white ) were bought having had much premier League experience ( plus the injured Jesus ) ....on the other end of the scale , I think 4 players came through the arsenal academy.
Compare that to wolves yesterday,,,1 player ,Dawson , who came to wolves from a premier League club ,plus Collins when he came on .
And as for the other end of the scale , not a single academy player in sight.
Is this where we are going wrong??
Do we have a scouting system?..or is it just in Portugal?

A serious question. Do you post this kind of crap as a wind up?

 

[Bognor_Wolf]

A serious question. Do you post this kind of crap as a wind up?

Ofcourse he does....

Makes zero sense to post it just after we have beaten Tottenham.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

What a pointless thread wait until Julen overhauls us this summer for Spanish type players

 

[JadeWolf]

By my reckoning it must be the first game this season where we’ve not had an academy player in the squad. Have you been waiting all year to post this?

Edit: Technically Kilman came through our U23s as it was then, so it’s *******s anyway.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Is the arsenal Zinchenko the same one wolves tried to sign or am I missing something...

 

[sedgwolf1980]

Why not go the whole hog and compare us to Real Madrid.

 

[OLDGOLD]

Just watching Arsenal on match of the day , and where there players came from ...
I think 4 of yesterday's team ( ramsdale , zinchenko , trossard , white ) were bought having had much premier League experience ( plus the injured Jesus ) ....on the other end of the scale , I think 4 players came through the arsenal academy.
Compare that to wolves yesterday,,,1 player ,Dawson , who came to wolves from a premier League club ,plus Collins when he came on .
And as for the other end of the scale , not a single academy player in sight.
Is this where we are going wrong??
Do we have a scouting system?..or is it just in Portugal?

OK, I'll bite. Not just about yesterday but the season in general. Yes we are quite Iberian focused, but we have bought in premier league experience in Dawson, Lemina and to a much lesser extent Collins. We made big money on selling MGW who was an academy player. Bueho has come through the ranks, Lembisika has had some minutes. Killman we have had from quite young. Ait Nouri and Fabio ditto. Chem Campbell has had game time. Now, not surprising that we are not in the same league as Arsenal, but we are not just a one trick pony.

But you knew that already

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

I'd say the main difference is Arteta gets away with everything

 

[Darvo]

I think our form since the World Cup puts us 7th out of all teams.

In my view, given what Julen inherited, there ain’t too much going wrong at the moment.

 

[Wolf 82]

Most the players did come through our academies though.. Porto and Lisbon.

 

[The Wolf In The North]

You work with what you have. I couldn't invest in a nice suit and expect to turn heads like Ryan Reynolds, and Angry Barbara next door wouldn't become Margot Robbie just by pitching up in a mini dress and heels. Arsenal have always had a fabulous academy set-up; no matter how much money Chelsea splash around, Arsenal are still THE London club, one of England's classic big three with Man Utd and Liverpool, and can cherry pick youth.

A fairer comparison would be Crystal Palace or Leicester or Southampton, all clubs which also bring through good academy products, just on a more realistic level. We've got a star in Bueno, and have had success with bought-young players like Kilman and Neto, maybe Hodge and Toti, but we certainly could have done better.

I'd personally always favour the route of investing in youth (regardless of where from, though I think we don't do nearly enough in the French, German, Balkan and Scandanavian markets) and melding that with carefully selected PL experience, rather than throwing suitcases full of notes at a Nunes or Guedes in the hope they adapt. Fosun get it right about 50% of the time, but their track record with big expenditure is poor compared to clever youth acquisition.

In answer to the OP, however controversial; Yes, poor conversion of academy products to the first team and the development of truly top class talent is part of why we've struggled, even though Arsenal are an unrealistic benchmark.

 

[GoldenHorseshoe]

Just wait this thread is going to be like a few of the others, he's right and everyone else is wrong.

 

[Hanbury_Wolf]

Extremely difficult for Wolves to sign decent level, experienced players from other prem clubs. Why would they sell their better players to us? Why would they come? They'd be selling for a reason.

As for the academy comparison. Not seeing the point. Arsenal started with 1 academy products yesterday. Saka

To summarise, you're either on the wind up or just misinformed

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Just watching Arsenal on match of the day , and where there players came from ...
I think 4 of yesterday's team ( ramsdale , zinchenko , trossard , white ) were bought having had much premier League experience ( plus the injured Jesus ) ....on the other end of the scale , I think 4 players came through the arsenal academy.
Compare that to wolves yesterday,,,1 player ,Dawson , who came to wolves from a premier League club ,plus Collins when he came on .
And as for the other end of the scale , not a single academy player in sight.
Is this where we are going wrong??
Do we have a scouting system?..or is it just in Portugal?

Were we "going wrong" when these same Iberian born players got us promoted,got us to Europe, finished 7th twice?
I do agree that not enough Academy players come through,but thats football

I read an article some time back that said 70% of academy players dont even get a professional contract at the end,and 97% never play first team football,thats some statistics there
You occasionally get a team that has a fair few come through ,Arsenal this year,we have had Liverpool,Man City and most notable the Man Utd squad with the Beckham era mob

Very,very few make the grade with the same club,most leave and make it elsewhere,or there is an odd one or two that come through,its not going wrong it is what it is

We have a lot of good youngsters,but we arent in a position to give them game time especially this year,Cundle was one earlier this season but we cant rely on him at his age when we can get better ready made players which we have done

It may not be preferable but its necessary

 

[Contrarian]

Bueno to Arsenal soon, then.

 

[theweave]

By my reckoning it must be the first game this season where we’ve not had an academy player in the squad. Have you been waiting all year to post this?

Edit: Technically Kilman came through our U23s as it was then, so it’s *******s anyway.

Bueno would've started too had he not been injured

 

[old wittonian]

Just watching Arsenal on match of the day , and where there players came from ...
I think 4 of yesterday's team ( ramsdale , zinchenko , trossard , white ) were bought having had much premier League experience ( plus the injured Jesus ) ....on the other end of the scale , I think 4 players came through the arsenal academy.
Compare that to wolves yesterday,,,1 player ,Dawson , who came to wolves from a premier League club ,plus Collins when he came on .
And as for the other end of the scale , not a single academy player in sight.
Is this where we are going wrong??
Do we have a scouting system?..or is it just in Portugal?

You're got to factor in that the likes of Arsenal and the other Big 6 clubs have the choice of the best young talent and those players are attracted to them.
Indeed some clubs sign academy players on a bit of a wing and a prayer. At the end of the day they can always sell them to the lower leagues and see a profit. Many academy players end up in the National league and earn a good living.
I think Wolves do the best by the academy players and persevere where many clubs wouldn't. We're not too pushy and only seem to promote and play these players when they are actually ready. Even playing in front of 30k plus crowds can effect performance detrimentally.
My grandson is a member of the Wales U16 squad. He realises he's not just competing with his peers but with the higher age groups as well. Many don't

 

[waveney wolf]

Extremely difficult for Wolves to sign decent level, experienced players from other prem clubs. Why would they sell their better players to us? Why would they come? They'd be selling for a reason.

As for the academy comparison. Not seeing the point. Arsenal started with 1 academy products yesterday. Saka

To summarise, you're either on the wind up or just misinformed

Why wouldn't premier League players come to us?
We re an established premier League club having finished 7 th recently ,,we ve just paid 45 million for cuhna, and I'm sure we pay him very well ...so we should be able to compete for experienced prem players.
I know Arsenal have a top academy, maybe our scouts should be as proactive.
We did well in the youth cup, so we re doing something right, but there's v little transition from there to the first team

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Just watching Arsenal on match of the day , and where there players came from ...
I think 4 of yesterday's team ( ramsdale , zinchenko , trossard , white ) were bought having had much premier League experience ( plus the injured Jesus ) ....on the other end of the scale , I think 4 players came through the arsenal academy.
Compare that to wolves yesterday,,,1 player ,Dawson , who came to wolves from a premier League club ,plus Collins when he came on .
And as for the other end of the scale , not a single academy player in sight.
Is this where we are going wrong??
Do we have a scouting system?..or is it just in Portugal?

Drop grenade. Run.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

Is the arsenal Zinchenko the same one wolves tried to sign or am I missing something...

As you are a Wolves fan I would say that you are qualified to be missing something.

 

[sc91]

I see Stevie Wonder made his way to his computer again.

 

[Axle]

You work with what you have. I couldn't invest in a nice suit and expect to turn heads like Ryan Reynolds, and Angry Barbara next door wouldn't become Margot Robbie just by pitching up in a mini dress and heels. Arsenal have always had a fabulous academy set-up; no matter how much money Chelsea splash around, Arsenal are still THE London club, one of England's classic big three with Man Utd and Liverpool, and can cherry pick youth.

A fairer comparison would be Crystal Palace or Leicester or Southampton, all clubs which also bring through good academy products, just on a more realistic level. We've got a star in Bueno, and have had success with bought-young players like Kilman and Neto, maybe Hodge and Toti, but we certainly could have done better.

I'd personally always favour the route of investing in youth (regardless of where from, though I think we don't do nearly enough in the French, German, Balkan and Scandanavian markets) and melding that with carefully selected PL experience, rather than throwing suitcases full of notes at a Nunes or Guedes in the hope they adapt. Fosun get it right about 50% of the time, but their track record with big expenditure is poor compared to clever youth acquisition.

In answer to the OP, however controversial; Yes, poor conversion of academy products to the first team and the development of truly top class talent is part of why we've struggled, even though Arsenal are an unrealistic benchmark.

And MGW who l hear Forest fans reckon is their best player this season and (they) reckon should have an England call up.

Irrespective we made a tidy amount on him as an academy product

 

[S G Wolves]

The bloke who started the thread is an utter clown.

 

[SmiffyWolf]

Probably sounds harsh but I just want the best players playing and attacking football. Not overly fussed about academy players as about 1 in 10 get through to some level of first team squad level.

The only reason for academy's these days imo is cash flow . Get players loaned out then sell them on with possible buy back clause if they do well .

Sanderson , Giles , Sarkic , Campbell, etc if so ok will sell on this summer or next .

I personally hope Giles gets a go next season but I could see us saying 15 million if Boro go up plus a buy back clause or percentage sell on to get funds in

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

Just watching Arsenal on match of the day , and where there players came from ...
I think 4 of yesterday's team ( ramsdale , zinchenko , trossard , white ) were bought having had much premier League experience ( plus the injured Jesus ) ....on the other end of the scale , I think 4 players came through the arsenal academy.
Compare that to wolves yesterday,,,1 player ,Dawson , who came to wolves from a premier League club ,plus Collins when he came on .
And as for the other end of the scale , not a single academy player in sight.
Is this where we are going wrong??
Do we have a scouting system?..or is it just in Portugal?

Arguably Arsenal’s 2 most important signings have been Odegaard and Partey, both of whom were signed from la Liga with no Prem experience.

As with some of the greatest players to grace the Premier League from Henry Hazard Drogba and Aguero to the likes of Haaland, Kompany, Toure and even Son and Bruno. Even KDB and Salah had next to no real time in PL in terms of experience before coming back.

So you could look at it another way and say our approach is bang on. But I’m sure you won’t.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I see Stevie Wonder made his way to his computer again.

Damn. Now I have this image in my head of @waveney wolf sitting at a piano with a photo of Lage, while singing “I just called to say I love you”…

 

[waveney wolf]

By my reckoning it must be the first game this season where we’ve not had an academy player in the squad. Have you been waiting all year to post this?

Edit: Technically Kilman came through our U23s as it was then, so it’s *******s anyway.

Well,, as I have said I was watching match of the day last night, and they were discussing the players from the arsenal academy last night,,when would you like me to post the thread?? This morning?? Or next August???
Ps
I thought kilman came from Maidenhead?? Hardly our academy

 

[Darvo]

Damn. Now I have this image in my head of @waveney wolf sitting at a piano with a photo of Lage, while singing “I just called to say I love you”…

That’s gonna be a pretty tough one to shift.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Well,, as I have said I was watching match of the day last night, and they were discussing the players from the arsenal academy last night,,when would you like me to post the thread?? This morning?? Or next August???
Ps
I thought kilman came from Maidenhead?? Hardly our academy

Played for our academy did he not?

 

[waveney wolf]

Played for our academy did he not?

Oh I do hate correcting you , especially when you seem to think you know it all ...no he didn't play for our academy, max played for Fulham academy, and Gillingham academy.
He played for wolves under 23 team

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Oh I do hate correcting you , especially when you seem to think you know it all ...no he didn't play for our academy, max played for Fulham academy, and Gillingham academy.
He played for wolves under 23 team

You do know the u23 squad forms part of the academy, right? You couldn’t correct a two piece jigsaw

 

[theweave]

Oh I do hate correcting you , especially when you seem to think you know it all ...no he didn't play for our academy, max played for Fulham academy, and Gillingham academy.
He played for wolves under 23 team

Most of the Arsenal 'academy' lads were signed from other teams too

 

[Shergar]

Now where’s that thread..’

Posters that would start a fight in an empty room?​

 

[Mutchy]

Now where’s that thread..’

Posters that would start a fight in an empty room?​

I did actually type a post on the other thread stating I could think of a few posters who would, but I thought better of it and deleted it before actually posting.

 

[waveney wolf]

You do know the u23 squad forms part of the academy, right? You couldn’t correct a two piece jigsaw

And you can't admit when you are wrong . Academy is youth team..not under 23.

 

[Ned]

The reason clubs like Arsenal have such great academies is because they have been at the top end of the table for decades, barring the odd lean spell. That means that the ENTIRE CLUB is geared towards producing success at the highest level, scouts and coaches know the standard and anybody not up to it gets released and replaced with new talent found elsewhere. We got promoted in 2018 and the first team jumped light years ahead of the standard that our academy players were expected to reach; they went from looking to reach the level of Jack Price and Jon Dadi Bodvarsson to Joao Moutinho and Raul Jimenez almost overnight. The entire academy down to the lowest age was suddenly not anywhere near the standard needed due to the rapid rise of the first team. We won't see regular success stories with academy players until the youngest age groups (since the standards went higher) come through. It's just the way it is.