Anyone else thinking sod it

[Chuck Murray]

I go.

It impacts certain moments, without doubt. But it has improved decisions.

You value spontaneity more and I value fairness more.

What on God's green earth makes you believe what VAR has brought to the game is fair????

To me, "fair" is subjective and in the eye of the beholder. It's frankly just another 4 letter F-word.

 

[sedgwolf1980]

Van Persie's volley against Villa to seal Ferguson's final title - VAR rules that out for offside now

Vardy's record equaling goal against Newcastle for scoring in 10 consecutive games - VAR rules out for offside

Tony Adams 'CAN YOU BELIEVE IT' title sealing epic moment in 1998 - Wow it's bloody close to offside. I can't call it.

We lose so much because of it and gain so little. For as much as I utterly despise it in every way, so much of the problem with it is offside. But it's a problem that cannot be fixed.

Add Shearers crazy far post volley, think it was also v Villa.

It’s the worst thing to ever, ever happen to football. And most people don’t even seem to mind it, baffles me.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

For me VAR (or the technology itself) isn’t the problem, it’s what it’s used for and more specifically the human error that’s consistently attached to it. For me it should be there for the “black and white” elements like was a foul inside the box or out, is a player on or offside” I’ve no issue with a players toe being offside or a foul being a centimetre inside the box as it’s still a penalty or it’s still offside. It’s when it’s used for “grey” areas of subjectivity like the amount of contact in a foul or whether a player is interfering like Saturday.

I’m like a broken record on it but the level of officiating in this country now is beyond woeful and is getting worse season by season. As a kid in the 80s n 90s we had the best referees in the world, now we’re a million miles away from other countries. They spoil my enjoyment of football much more than VAR ever does.

 

[Minimalist]

For me VAR (or the technology itself) isn’t the problem, it’s what it’s used for and more specifically the human error that’s consistently attached to it. For me it should be there for the “black and white” elements like was a foul inside the box or out, is a player on or offside” I’ve no issue with a players toe being offside or a foul being a centimetre inside the box as it’s still a penalty or it’s still offside. It’s when it’s used for “grey” areas of subjectivity like the amount of contact in a foul or whether a player is interfering like Saturday.

I’m like a broken record on it but the level of officiating in this country now is beyond woeful and is getting worse season by season. As a kid in the 80s n 90s we had the best referees in the world, now we’re a million miles away from other countries. They spoil my enjoyment of football much more than VAR ever does.

Ummm,
Even the offside thing though is annoying.
The rule used to be and should be, to give the benefit of doubt to the attacker… for me a centre meter off side should be considered level. Also you really can’t be that precise as part of it often comes down to the exact moment the ball is played; they never actually spend much time defining that.

Personally I’d only use VAR for sendings off and penalty decisions. The game has generally stopped at those points anyway.

 

[Minimalist]

Question - if you knock a ST on the head, hiow easy is it to get tickets via membership? Maybe 6-8 games a season ideally?

Very easy.

 

[rubyloo]

We lose so much because of it and gain so little.

perfect.

 

[thetwistedsock]

It's bizarre reading posts from fans saying they don't celebrate a goal anymore. There's nothing in football like that white hot celebration, the euphoria that makes you look around for anyone to embrace and shake hands with etc. If that's ever gone then I'm gone.

 

[boyceywolf]

I don't go any more after 50 years, nobody knows the rules so what is the point?

 

[Munich_Wolf]

VAR is completely ruining the game for me now. It’s sucking the enjoyment out completely and the worst thing is that I’ve got the realisation that it’s not going to result in “it’s not working, we tried, let’s bin it” which has really done me in.

Honestly, I won’t hear or accept any argument for the use of VAR at all. The “it’s the people who use it, not the technology” argument is pathetic as well. Doesn’t matter who uses it, football is subjective and these decisions will always be open to interpretation. I’d rather feel hard done by instantly and get on with it then having 5 mins of waiting beforehand. Same with celebrating goals, used to be a quick look at the lino during the cheering - now it’s waiting around whilst some ******* in a studio looks to disallow it.

It's what's really hammering the final nail in the coffin. I understand that for the match-going fan it's horrendous, and as I only attended the Brighton home defeat this season, I luckily didn't get to feel VAR at it's worst, but for the TV fan it isn't much better, it absolutely sucks every bit of joy out of the game.

I no longer watch much non-Wolves matches and when I do I find myself turning them off in disgust because of VAR - Boly sending off for the trees as an example.

If it wasn't for Wolves I'd no longer take any more than a passing interest in football

 

[Munich_Wolf]

The main issue with VAR is it's a different experience for those at the game and those watching on TV that may well not be as emotionally invested. It's like stupid kick off time for TV and other anti-match going fan nonsense.

The game is being restructured to suit the TV audience. These VAR checks are an interesting debate while you can see the instant replay, they are just plain infuriating when you have not idea what's going on.

It's just another set towards sin bins and quarters for ads.

I hate it, but the match going fans are just extras in a TV show. How long will it be before they can overlay an AI generated clowd to provide the 'atmosphere'?

Disagree strongly. It may be alright for FIFA-addicted15 year old with 1 minute attention spans, but it's absolutely ****ing rancid for TV fans too. I despise it and have lost count of how may times I've turned off the TV because of it.

 

[Ned]

If sin bins somehow become a thing then I fear that it could be the final nail in the coffin for football.

 

[fleck1]

VAR isn't the issue as the technology does exactly what is it asked to do. The way its used and the morons using it are the issue, they are trying to micro manage and make every decision black and white when it isn't. In black and white Saturday was technically offside, in reality everyone knows it was a goal it had zero affect on the goalkeeper, that goal goes in 10 times out of 10, Max buried his header no goalkeeper is moving let alone saving it. No footballing common sense is added to the decision making and its killing the game, even more so for your match going fan.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Ummm,
Even the offside thing though is annoying.
The rule used to be and should be, to give the benefit of doubt to the attacker… for me a centre meter off side should be considered level. Also you really can’t be that precise as part of it often comes down to the exact moment the ball is played; they never actually spend much time defining that.

Personally I’d only use VAR for sendings off and penalty decisions. The game has generally stopped at those points anyway.

I do get that but I see it very much like Hawkeye and the Snickometer in cricket, it doesn’t matter if it’s a centimetre or a metre offside, it’s offside. I think the frustrating one is when it goes to VAR when it’s clear to everyone in a stadium that’s it’s offside, again that for me is human error and down to the officials. Again (for me) it should only be used if the referee and linesman think it’s close, not just checked regardless.

 

[Minimalist]

I do get that but I see it very much like Hawkeye and the Snickometer in cricket, it doesn’t matter if it’s a centimetre or a metre offside, it’s offside. I think the frustrating one is when it goes to VAR when it’s clear to everyone in a stadium that’s it’s offside, again that for me is human error and down to the officials. Again (for me) it should only be used if the referee and linesman think it’s close, not just checked regardless.

I never like the comparison between different sports.
The result of a tennis or cricket match isn’t anywhere near as dependent on one result to a point or even a wicket.
Football being low scoring makes the moment far more intense.

And besides, as I said, with offside I don’t believe it can be conclusive as to a cm off or on side. The moment the ball is passed is as important as where the lines are drawn; and that isn’t easily determined.

The off side rule was created to stop people just goal hanging, benefit of doubt to an attacker and the concept of players being level was always part of it.

 

[Alienwolf]

Saturday was probably the turning point for me. I’ve no idea why it was the final straw, as unbelievably we’ve been on the wrong side of worse decisions this and other seasons. But, as the corner was delivered, Kilman rose, the ball struck the back of the net and everyone around me celebrated, I stood motionless, knowing that it’s only a goal now when the opposition kick off again.
That’s just not right, it’s not the game I have loved for 50+ years. I’m not that bothered about the defeat, or the manner of it, but to lose the essence of the beautiful game is heartbreaking.
The bloke next to me asked if I was a Hammers fan, as he couldn’t understand why I wasn’t celebrating. I didn’t have the heart to explain why.
End of the road, for now.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I never like the comparison between different sports.
The result of a tennis or cricket match isn’t anywhere near as dependent on one result to a point or even a wicket.
Football being low scoring makes the moment far more intense.

And besides, as I said, with offside I don’t believe it can be conclusive as to a cm off or on side. The moment the ball is passed is as important as where the lines are drawn; and that isn’t easily determined.

The off side rule was created to stop people just goal hanging, benefit of doubt to an attacker and the concept of players being level was always part of it.

Totally get what you’re saying mate. Just personally bothers me less on offsides than it does on the more subjective things which generally they get wrong so much more. I’m no advocate for VAR, I just think those using it and the officials in general are a much much bigger problem with how the game has gone. Maybe it’s just me but I’m always shocked now when I see a decent referees display either in our games or other teams games as they are a rarity whereas I feel I see far more poor officiating.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Looking for perfection in an imperfect world is for children.

I do understand for non-attenders like you two it seems trivial for us to complain about VAR when to you it has increased decision accuracy by 1.3% which must be a positive.

VAR diminishes that which makes football beautiful.

Now now, no need to wum.

Watching things like Premier League years and you used to see how bad some decisions were, often in favour of the elite. It had to stop.

I’m convinced a few months without VAR and the stance would change.

Imagine if we lost an FA Cup final to Albion through an offside goal or a clear foul.

You’d obviously be fine with it. You may even buy them a round of drinks to celebrate and congratulate them on a great day. At least you got to see them celebrate.

I’d be livid and gutted, especially knowing it was a wrong decision that could’ve been rectified easily.

It doesn’t mean my way is right, that’s just how I’d be. But that’s why I value VAR.

Of course aspects are frustrating but it has improved things in terms of fairness.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

It's bizarre reading posts from fans saying they don't celebrate a goal anymore. There's nothing in football like that white hot celebration, the euphoria that makes you look around for anyone to embrace and shake hands with etc. If that's ever gone then I'm gone.

I think the majority still do the instinctive celebration as the ball hits the net. But it's the immediacy after it that VAR kills. When you should be jumping around KNOWING your team has scored a goal and for at least 30 seconds being fully immersed in that joy, now it's near impossible to not have the trepidation enter your mind. And for me, and I assume many others, that taints what should be the pinnacle of going to football, and instead brings with it an element of stress and worry rather than what it should be. So long as VAR exists in any capacity, however much it improves that will never go away.

 

[thetwistedsock]

I've had some tool at work today trying to say the TMO works better in rugby so what's the difference. I told him the TMO use in rugby has increased and it's a distraction now. It's also being used more to review tries and they go back quite far too make sure it's a valid try. I also told him there's nothing like the passion there is in football. I'm talking with plenty of experience too. Not just Wolves but I've also been to multiple world cups and euros plus the last rugby world cup. He's just a part time sports watcher so **** knows why I even continued to have a conversation with him about it.

 

[thommo1984]

It's bizarre reading posts from fans saying they don't celebrate a goal anymore. There's nothing in football like that white hot celebration, the euphoria that makes you look around for anyone to embrace and shake hands with etc. If that's ever gone then I'm gone.

If you don’t think that’s gone you’re in a very small minority. I can’t believe anyone thinks it’s the same as it was pre-VAR.

Lemina’s winner vs Spuds for example, I barely celebrated as I knew a three minute VAR check was coming to find out if his shirt sleeve was slightly ahead of the defenders back-side.

It’s broken the game, completely.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

If you don’t think that’s gone you’re in a very small minority. I can’t believe anyone thinks it’s the same as it was pre-VAR.

Lemina’s winner vs Spuds for example, I barely celebrated as I knew a three minute VAR check was coming to find out if his shirt sleeve was slightly ahead of the defenders back-side.

It’s broken the game, completely.

Look at the videos. Listen to the commentary.

You are very much in the minority on that in terms of actual evidence from what we could see. The ground was going mental and people in the South Bank actually falling over each other by me - and that’s the worst view in the stadium to judge whether it was offside.

I get your point but I think what we see proves people still celebrate despite the claims on here.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

If you don’t think that’s gone you’re in a very small minority. I can’t believe anyone thinks it’s the same as it was pre-VAR.

Lemina’s winner vs Spuds for example, I barely celebrated as I knew a three minute VAR check was coming to find out if his shirt sleeve was slightly ahead of the defenders back-side.

It’s broken the game, completely.

You'll search long and far to find anyone who hates VAR more than me and has done from the start. But I think I could stomach it if they just left offsides to on field decisions. I know it's never going to happen, but so much of what I despise about it stems from that aspect. That's what ruins so many goals and celebrations.

 

[lets all have a disco]

So true...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776882231841100240

 

[wolvesjoe]

You'll search long and far to find anyone who hates VAR more than me and has done from the start. But I think I could stomach it if they just left offsides to on field decisions. I know it's never going to happen, but so much of what I despise about it stems from that aspect. That's what ruins so many goals and celebrations.

Agreed...........the ultra marginal calls are entirely against the spirit of the game, and the technology does not in any case support precision in those ultramarginal calls.

Quite often when a goal is ruled out by VAR for a very narrow offside, they are actually punishing a clever piece of play by the attacking side.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

So true...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776882231841100240

That’s why one of the worst VAR blunders of all time went against Liverpool…

 

[manchesterwolf17]

Agreed...........the ultra marginal calls are entirely against the spirit of the game, and the technology does not in any case support precision in those ultramarginal calls.

Quite often when a goal is ruled out by VAR for a very narrow offside, they are actually punishing a clever piece of play by the attacking side.

Spot on. And it discourages positive football. Attackers playing on the last line etc.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

That’s why one of the worst VAR blunders of all time went against Liverpool…

I agree with you on this. And it's actually what I think distracts us so much from the reality which is that VAR ruins football for every paying fan in the country. The only reason the likes of Man City and Liverpool etc appear to suffer less is because they score more goals and therefore the significance of their goals are by default less obvious than a team who rarely scores more than 1-2 a game. We have undoubtedly suffered the most this season, but I don't think that's because of who we're playing. The very worst decisions have come against West Ham, Sheff Utd and Fulham.

Tribalism is hard to avoid in football, I get that. But when it comes to this ****ing thing we should all realise the poison it is collectively.

 

[Oliwolf44]

For me VAR (or the technology itself) isn’t the problem, it’s what it’s used for and more specifically the human error that’s consistently attached to it. For me it should be there for the “black and white” elements like was a foul inside the box or out, is a player on or offside” I’ve no issue with a players toe being offside or a foul being a centimetre inside the box as it’s still a penalty or it’s still offside. It’s when it’s used for “grey” areas of subjectivity like the amount of contact in a foul or whether a player is interfering like Saturday.

I’m like a broken record on it but the level of officiating in this country now is beyond woeful and is getting worse season by season. As a kid in the 80s n 90s we had the best referees in the world, now we’re a million miles away from other countries. They spoil my enjoyment of football much more than VAR ever does.

completely agree. When its black and white the technology should be used because it is either right or wrong, no subjectivity. When a var official or somebody else is looking at a foul its adding another layer of subjectivity which is tying them all in knots. Add on the psychological effects of confirmation bias if a ref being told they are wrong "if ive been told its possibly wrong then i will find evidence of that when looking at it again."
If the tech allowed for it I would absolutely bring in automatic offsides aswell, instant decision making and takes out the human error that can be decisively said right or wrong. Anti-var people can be painted as luddite, anti-tech, back to old days mentality but not really the case. Goal line tech proves that when its fast and improves the game and decision making then all for it.
Agree aswell the standard of refereeing is at its lowest ebb. The refs become lazy and relying on VAR, and the rules are so convoluted they are tripping over themselves.

 

[Jefe]

I do get that but I see it very much like Hawkeye and the Snickometer in cricket, it doesn’t matter if it’s a centimetre or a metre offside, it’s offside. I think the frustrating one is when it goes to VAR when it’s clear to everyone in a stadium that’s it’s offside, again that for me is human error and down to the officials. Again (for me) it should only be used if the referee and linesman think it’s close, not just checked regardless.

The issue with offside under VAR is it's not instantaneous like Hawkeye. Nowhere near, in fact. If there were some AI-driven eye in the sky that could instantly flag a player offside the moment he touches the ball, there would be no complaints. As is however, with some offside calls so tight that they take 5 minutes to resolve (often after the goal has been scored), then there is a valid case against its use on balance.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

The issue with offside under VAR is it's not instantaneous like Hawkeye. Nowhere near, in fact. If there were some AI-driven eye in the sky that could instantly flag a player offside the moment he touches the ball, there would be no complaints. As is however, with some offside calls so tight that they take 5 minutes to resolve (often after the goal has been scored), then there is a valid case against its use on balance.

I think most fans would be more patient with it if instead of every goal where a player is remotely by an opposing one and it goes to VAR, that it’s only used as and when it’s required. The amount that go to VAR when it’s clearly not offside is ridiculous.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

Would love for there to be some kind of official vote amongst all STH’s of all PL teams (this would exclude me as I packed mine in last summer), to ask if they wanted VAR to stay.

Let’s say set the threshold at 60%+ would need to vote for its removal for action to be taken to avoid a Brexit style close vote thing.

For once, let the fans that attend most regularly have an opinion on a major decision.

Only way I can see VAR working or being unanimously accepted is if it becomes instantaneous like goal line tech. As it stands it is sucking the life out of attending elite football and seemingly creating more debate than it’s resolving.

 

[rubyloo]

Saturday was probably the turning point for me.

I cant honestly remember being so upset walking out of Molineux before (my first game was in 1970)

It was something far, far deeper than missing out on a point against west ham in a season that's over for us anyway.

There have been lots of defeats in bigger games, sometimes last minute etc but this was different. It was a huge sense of injustice that the game has, inexplicably, been changed for the worse by people who are not football fans and wouldn't understand 'limbs' if they attended a two week seminar on the subject. We did not consent to this, there was no vote, no discussion - there it is - VAR, deal with it or find something else to do on a Saturday.

Shi was spot on - no one in the ground had a problem with that goal. Some corporate clone in west London, however, decided there was a way to spoil the fun and that was that.

I got into a minor altercation outside the ground and a road rage incident on the way home, nothing serious but both could have ended up a lot worse. Absolutely ridiculous behaviour for a grown man - i am embarrassed. Anyone who tries to defend VAR or suggest 'improvements' is dead to me - just not interested. I want my beautiful game back, warts & all.

RIP Football

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I cant honestly remember being so upset walking out of Molineux before (my first game was in 1970)

It was something far, far deeper than missing out on a point against west ham in a season that's over for us anyway.

There have been lots of defeats in bigger games, sometimes last minute etc but this was different. It was a huge sense of injustice that the game has, inexplicably, been changed for the worse by people who are not football fans and wouldn't understand 'limbs' if they attended a two week seminar on the subject. We did not consent to this, there was no vote, no discussion - there it is - VAR, deal with it or find something else to do on a Saturday.

Shi was spot on - no one in the ground had a problem with that goal. Some corporate clone in west London, however, decided there was a way to spoil the fun and that was that.

I got into a minor altercation outside the ground and a road rage incident on the way home, nothing serious but both could have ended up a lot worse. Absolutely ridiculous behaviour for a grown man - i am embarrassed. Anyone who tries to defend VAR or suggest 'improvements' is dead to me - just not interested. I want my beautiful game back, warts & all.

RIP Football

McGinlay, Uriah Rennie?

 

[clivewolves]

I'm not close to saying sod it, but I do find myself getting more annoyed watching football. Maybe it's just me getting older. Cheating players and incompetent officials. The other day in a match a player was there yelling "**** off" to a linesman and the officals did nothing. He would have been sent off if I was the ref.

But I'll still watch it.

 

[rubyloo]

McGinlay, Uriah Rennie?

McGinlay punch was away and i didnt attend the Rennie show. My point was more about the game being changed without our consent rather than specific things happening in games.

 

[jackdusty]

It's bizarre reading posts from fans saying they don't celebrate a goal anymore. There's nothing in football like that white hot celebration, the euphoria that makes you look around for anyone to embrace and shake hands with etc. If that's ever gone then I'm gone.

I'm another one who doesn't celebrate, didn't last year either. In fact if it wasn't for my son i wouldn't of renewed and don't want to next season. First game in 1979 and i'm done with it, not just VAR but the cheating manipulative "tactics" of players and managers, the cost of it etc but mainly it is VAR and its implementation.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I'm another one who doesn't celebrate, didn't last year either. In fact if it wasn't for my son i wouldn't of renewed and don't want to next season. First game in 1979 and i'm done with it, not just VAR but the cheating manipulative "tactics" of players and managers, the cost of it etc but mainly it is VAR and its implementation.

People go to football to enjoy the football/ day out and to be entertained. Once you stop enjoying that element it’s just not the same anymore.

I can meet friends for a bar crawl anytime and that’s probably the most enjoyable thing about going to football, the day itself…

VAR is taking away entertainment and bringing in more controversy and taking away goals and celebrating. That’s what killed it for me. Too much frustration mostly down to incompetent officials / VAR

Once you stop going and stop enjoying it. It’s not the same. VAR killed it and sounds like many others feel the same

Love watching the games still when I can just not in person. Never thought I’d say that either

 

[Golden Arrow]

I cant honestly remember being so upset walking out of Molineux before (my first game was in 1970)

It was something far, far deeper than missing out on a point against west ham in a season that's over for us anyway.

There have been lots of defeats in bigger games, sometimes last minute etc but this was different. It was a huge sense of injustice that the game has, inexplicably, been changed for the worse by people who are not football fans and wouldn't understand 'limbs' if they attended a two week seminar on the subject. We did not consent to this, there was no vote, no discussion - there it is - VAR, deal with it or find something else to do on a Saturday.

Shi was spot on - no one in the ground had a problem with that goal. Some corporate clone in west London, however, decided there was a way to spoil the fun and that was that.

I got into a minor altercation outside the ground and a road rage incident on the way home, nothing serious but both could have ended up a lot worse. Absolutely ridiculous behaviour for a grown man - i am embarrassed. Anyone who tries to defend VAR or suggest 'improvements' is dead to me - just not interested. I want my beautiful game back, warts & all.

RIP Football

I share your sentiments but we've gone so far down the track now that I can't see a total reset of things.
Generally after a loss I try to move on quickly, but occasions like these (and there's been a few this season) are starting to manifest themselves, which is not healthy.

 

[Wellington Wolf]

Question - if you knock a ST on the head, hiow easy is it to get tickets via membership? Maybe 6-8 games a season ideally?

That's my routine these days and I can pick up a ticket for sufficient games to suit me. Sometimes an issue if I want to take my lad, but never had an issue picking up a resale for a single ticket

 

[sedgwolf1980]

Another one in the don’t celebrate club here. Struggle to understand how anyone can, not properly anyway.

Funny (well not really) story… I’m abroad at the min so only got updates from Saturdays match on here, on the comms thread. Didn’t check it for a while after they scored the second. Logged back on to see Kilman scored. Not even a single shred of excitement went thru me as I just knew as I scrolled down there was a chance I would see the dreaded words, VAR check. Low and behold, just a few posts down and there it was.

I actually just wryly smiled to myself. It’s completely knocked the stuffing out of me. Goals will never, ever, be the same again.