A director of football

[Starsky]

.....is now required at this football club 100%.

If nothing else to ensure that we do not have to spend years and years backing the wrong footballing philosophy - as Jez has today admitted that we have done.

These 2 can simply no longer be relied upon to make the right decisions at the right time.

 

[Essex Wolf]

.....is now required at this football club 100%.

If nothing else to ensure that we do not have to spend years and years backing the wrong footballing philosophy - as Jez has today admitted that we have done.

These 2 can simply no longer be relied upon to make the right decisions at the right time.

In other words someone who has a clue about what they are doing and what's needed?

 

[Tom S]

How did we back the wrong footballing philosophy?

Young and hungry was right for the time for a club with a small budget, threadbare squad and a manager who thrived on getting the best out of these types of player.

It took us as far as it could as we all saw the limitations in our final two seasons under McCarthy / Connor.

This is a new strategy of targetting foreign players, without the 3 seasons in the Premier League we would not be able to attract these kinds of players.

Get a grip and remember where we were 6 years ago.

 

[Bill McCai]

Wolves wanted one a few months ago! Strategy has now changed though.

 

[cobweb]

*moved to this more relevant thread.

One man was holding it all together and now he's gone, it's frightening to see just how poorly the club is set up. This Wolves DNA that Morgan and Moxey loved to harp on about has now been shown up to be the load of nonsense that many suspected it to be. There is a McCarthy DNA, which is to buy cheap, young players with a bit of ambition to better themsleves. Mould them all into a 3 musketeers 'one for all and all for one' spirit and go as far as you can with it. The Wolves DNA seems to be led by the philosophy and playing style of whoever they appoint as manager. It certainly isn't directed by Moxey or Morgan.

 

[GoldenHorseshoe]

What if Moxey (presuming it's him) hires a duff DoF?

 

[Tom S]

Is anybody else getting sick of hearing we MUST have a Director of Football.

Look at Comolli's signings for Liverpool, it doesn't guarentee success.

 

[Dewsburywolf]

How did we back the wrong footballing philosophy?

Young and hungry was right for the time for a club with a small budget, threadbare squad and a manager who thrived on getting the best out of these types of player.

It took us as far as it could as we all saw the limitations in our final two seasons under McCarthy / Connor.

This is a new strategy of targetting foreign players, without the 3 seasons in the Premier League we would not be able to attract these kinds of players.

Get a grip and remember where we were 6 years ago.

In the management/coaching side or in the wage structure. McCarthy proved with his formation for the Villa game (obviously before the injury to Frimpong/sending off of Henry) that he could get a team playing decent football -- which is what Stale's trying to further implement now -- but you can't do it if you're hamstrung by having the wage structure that we have/had in place

 

[Skrilla]

They're both businessmen, we need an improved footballing focus at our club to take us forward. Moxey and Morgan just don't cut it, SS needs the support.

 

[Tom S]

In the management/coaching side or in the wage structure. McCarthy proved with his formation for the Villa game (obviously before the injury to Frimpong/sending off of Henry) that he could get a team playing decent football -- which is what Stale's trying to further implement now -- but you can't do it if you're hamstrung by having the wage structure that we have/had in place

I don't disagree that in terms of attacking tactics McCarthy had a vision and it could work, the problem was he could never put a defence together that would allow us to play the attacking football he wanted because he always had to have one eye on protecting the numpties at the back

 

[Sandwell Wolf]

There's no point getting one for the sake of it.

Who actually has a DoF in this country? Many Championship teams? And what about the big clubs?

 

[SuperTigerWolf]

.....is now required at this football club 100%.

If nothing else to ensure that we do not have to spend years and years backing the wrong footballing philosophy - as Jez has today admitted that we have done.

These 2 can simply no longer be relied upon to make the right decisions at the right time.

What is the evidence to suggest that having a DoF works?

 

[Starsky]

You can go round and round with the pro's and con's of a DoF - and both sides have merit - but,IMO,Wolves is now an extreme case where M&M simply cannot be left to make the important footballing decisions on their own.

At the absolute least,we need proper football representation on the board - and in a position where their input is listened to.

What happens if STS fails? Bearing in mind we've identified this new Continental approach to recruitment,what happens then? Does anybody in their right mind believe that those pair could identify the right man?! Or would we go back to Steve Bruce and change the approach yet again?

 

[Bill McCai]

I'm more I interested as to why we said we would be getting one in May, post the appt of SS only to can the idea in late June. Weird!

 

[Deleted member 4099]

If not a specific director of football they a director on the board who is a football man. Ex manger / player. A wolves man we can relate to. Someone like Kenny Hibbett?

 

[long ball man]

*moved to this more relevant thread.

One man was holding it all together and now he's gone, it's frightening to see just how poorly the club is set up. This Wolves DNA that Morgan and Moxey loved to harp on about has now been shown up to be the load of nonsense that many suspected it to be. There is a McCarthy DNA, which is to buy cheap, young players with a bit of ambition to better themsleves. Mould them all into a 3 musketeers 'one for all and all for one' spirit and go as far as you can with it. The Wolves DNA seems to be led by the philosophy and playing style of whoever they appoint as manager. It certainly isn't directed by Moxey or Morgan.

Absolutely the best post ever made on here.
I am going to copy it and send it to WWFC and all media outlets that cover the club. This is what is holding us back, not whether Solbakken was right to sack Connor or whether Sigurdarsson or Boukari should start against Leicester.

Unless we get a cogent plan together we are going nowhere.
Just as an aside how many new eras or false dawns will Mr Moxey be allowed to preside over?

 

[JOSWolf]

Absolutely the best post ever made on here.
I am going to copy it and send it to WWFC and all media outlets that cover the club. This is what is holding us back, not whether Solbakken was right to sack Connor or whether Sigurdarsson or Boukari should start against Leicester.

Unless we get a cogent plan together we are going nowhere.
Just as an aside how many new eras or false dawns will Mr Moxey be allowed to preside over?

God knows.
Moxey seems almost untouchable!

 

[long ball man]

Is anybody else getting sick of hearing we MUST have a Director of Football.

Look at Comolli's signings for Liverpool, it doesn't guarentee success.

The exception that proves the rule. Don't fall for that one. DoF have to approve the manager/head coach, not the other way round. DoFs have mostly failed in England yes. That is because they are subservient to the managerial messiah model which has spectacularly failed. See Reading and WBA for the way forward.
See Barcelona's long serving technical directors vs ever changing head coaches for evidence that it works.

 

[dazmanwolf]

*moved to this more relevant thread.

One man was holding it all together and now he's gone, it's frightening to see just how poorly the club is set up. This Wolves DNA that Morgan and Moxey loved to harp on about has now been shown up to be the load of nonsense that many suspected it to be. There is a McCarthy DNA, which is to buy cheap, young players with a bit of ambition to better themsleves. Mould them all into a 3 musketeers 'one for all and all for one' spirit and go as far as you can with it. The Wolves DNA seems to be led by the philosophy and playing style of whoever they appoint as manager. It certainly isn't directed by Moxey or Morgan.

I agree, and the Young & Hungry policy ran its course. We benefited from the sales of some of the formerly young and hungry so we can rebuild without penny pinching. Now its time for a culture change and see what else we can do. Hence Stale's appointment - totally new ideas and tactics.....if it fails we move on again.

 

[long ball man]

You can go round and round with the pro's and con's of a DoF - and both sides have merit - but,IMO,Wolves is now an extreme case where M&M simply cannot be left to make the important footballing decisions on their own.

At the absolute least,we need proper football representation on the board - and in a position where their input is listened to.

What happens if STS fails? Bearing in mind we've identified this new Continental approach to recruitment,what happens then? Does anybody in their right mind believe that those pair could identify the right man?! Or would we go back to Steve Bruce and change the approach yet again?

Another excellent contribution.
I liken those lauding Stale's signings of evidence of a change of policy and a bold new era to those people who believe that Father Christmas appearing in the Mander Centre each Christmas is evidence of his existence. deluded.

 

[wolfyjoe]

who says the director of football will choose the right philosophy? It's utter $$$$$$$$.

 

[Paul76]

Can we sign Harry Redknapp please?

 

[Manic88]

who says the director of football will choose the right philosophy? It's utter $$$$$$$$.

Yeah but they're always good on Football Manager 2012....

 

[Skrilla]

FYI: Copenhagen, where Solbakken had all his early success as a manager including getting to the last 16 of the Champions League, operated with a Director of Football. The motive "other clubs don't do it in England, why should we?" please tell me why we can't be different and break a trend?

 

[old wittonian]

Another excellent contribution.
I liken those lauding Stale's signings of evidence of a change of policy and a bold new era to those people who believe that Father Christmas appearing in the Mander Centre each Christmas is evidence of his existence. deluded.

lol

 

[Mr Wolf]

This is all a load of $$$$ and I'm already getting sick of this term being banded around. Why does it have to be down to something or another with you lot. It's Morgans fault, Moxeys, Connors etc I've never heard so much $$$$ in my life as when I'm on here. Most other fans couldn't even name their CEO let alone blame him for everything.

It's all down to the manager and the 11 on the pitch at then end of the day.

 

[long ball man]

who says the director of football will choose the right philosophy? It's utter $$$$$$$$.

Theres nothing that will guarantee it sure. But if you give someone 5-7 years to implement a philosophy and plan, away from the pressure of first team results you stand a bloody good chance that it will pay off.

Nicky Hammond.
Dan Ashworth
Ajax
Barcelona

Setting up a structure where a head coach fits into a footballing structure set down within a Tech Dir/DoF framework is the way to go. The trouble is English football is emotionally tied to 'The Gaffer' as the way forward. Would ou rather carry on the pantomime of Tayor/McGhee/Lee/Jones/Hoddle/McCarthy/Solbakken?

On EVERY occasion of managerial change in the last 15 years the Wolves board has done nothing more than react to the shortcomings of the previous incumbent and gone for someone opposite or different in terms of temperament and/or playing style. We are a joke. We need to do something different.

 

[long ball man]

This is all a load of $$$$ and I'm already getting sick of this term being banded around. Why does it have to be down to something or another with you lot. It's Morgans fault, Moxeys, Connors etc I've never heard so much $$$$ in my life as when I'm on here. Most other fans couldn't even name their CEO let alone blame him for everything.

It's all down to the manager and the 11 on the pitch at then end of the day.

Naively put. You inadvertently put your finger on the real issue in bold.

 

[Sussexbaggie]

who says the director of football will choose the right philosophy? It's utter $$$$$$$$.

It's part of a longer term plan than that though (or should be anyway). What if your new signings down work out or gel, your 18th at Xmas and Stale gets the sack. Moxey/Morgan then decide to appoint Alan Curbishley who doesn't want 'a load of foreigners' and instead signs the Sean Derry's and Danny Gabbidons that are available (not saying this is nescesarily the wrong way but its the complete opposite direction to the Wolves are working at the moment).

New manager then spends 6 months phasing out the current players (writing off the current season in process) and the process starts again next year with another 11 new players bedding in. A DoF may not work every time but surely chosing a stratergy and backing it with the whole club from youth teams to first team working in the same direction gives you a better chance of succes than picking manager and hoping he takes you/keeps you up.

In the time since MM was appointed at Wolves we have gone through Mowbray, RDM, Hodgson and now Clarke. Each manager has tweaked the system and style of play and bought in a few new faces but at no time has there been a revolution style change in the team, transfer policy or way the club operates. You guys have bought a new guy in and it all seems to have changed (from the outside anyway). Your new manager will either fail (and get sacked) or suceed (and most likely get picked up by a bigger club) and either way in 2/3 years its very likely you will be looking for a new manager. Surely its better than when that time comes the club have a clear and defined stratery already in place and can appoint a manager to fit in with that.

 

[Tom S]

Theres nothing that will guarantee it sure. But if you give someone 5-7 years to implement a philosophy and plan, away from the pressure of first team results you stand a bloody good chance that it will pay off.

Nicky Hammond.
Dan Ashworth
Ajax
Barcelona

Setting up a structure where a head coach fits into a footballing structure set down within a Tech Dir/DoF framework is the way to go. The trouble is English football is emotionally tied to 'The Gaffer' as the way forward. Would ou rather carry on the pantomime of Tayor/McGhee/Lee/Jones/Hoddle/McCarthy/Solbakken?

On EVERY occasion of managerial change in the last 15 years the Wolves board has done nothing more than react to the shortcomings of the previous incumbent and gone for someone opposite or different in terms of temperament and/or playing style. We are a joke. We need to do something different.

I do agree that Dan Ashworth has worked wonders for Albion and I don't totally disagree that a DoF could work, but I'm simply frustrated that some people are screaming for it as if we will suddenly walk the league if it happened

If the right man can be found then fine but it seems everyone is in a rush for something that would not reap benefits for a significant period of time.

I have no idea what direction we would take should Solbakken not work out but then I didn't when McCarthy left and I've at least been pleased that we have a manager who appears to be strong with a clear vision of how we should play and isn't just muddling through with McCarthy's leftovers

 

[Darryl Revok]

Is anybody else getting sick of hearing we MUST have a Director of Football.

Look at Comolli's signings for Liverpool, it doesn't guarentee success.

Yes utterly so. It's nothing more than a glorified job-share with a fancy title but apparently it's some kind of amazing magic wand that cures all ills at a football club and brings success.

Absolutely coincidental that no-one at all banged on about it until Albion did it, despite it existing at other clubs for some time. The DoF appointment will be made by err the same people that appoint the manager now, can't say I'm convinced it's needed.

 

[SmokeyGB]

How did we back the wrong footballing philosophy?

Young and hungry was right for the time for a club with a small budget, threadbare squad and a manager who thrived on getting the best out of these types of player.

It took us as far as it could as we all saw the limitations in our final two seasons under McCarthy / Connor.

This is a new strategy of targetting foreign players, without the 3 seasons in the Premier League we would not be able to attract these kinds of players.

Get a grip and remember where we were 6 years ago.[B/]

Yeh same place where we are now....but with a better bank balance and a lop sided ground and for some, higher ticket prices and lower crowds.

 

[WonderWolf]

I do agree that Dan Ashworth has worked wonders for Albion and I don't totally disagree that a DoF could work, but I'm simply frustrated that some people are screaming for it as if we will suddenly walk the league if it happened

If the right man can be found then fine but it seems everyone is in a rush for something that would not reap benefits for a significant period of time.

I have no idea what direction we would take should Solbakken not work out but then I didn't when McCarthy left and I've at least been pleased that we have a manager who appears to be strong with a clear vision of how we should play and isn't just muddling through with McCarthy's leftovers

Agree. This DoF issue has been done to death.

The whole point about the DoF role is that it requires a very knowledgeable person, someone who has much experience of different types of football having been involved in it directly, and also has many contacts in the wider football world. But more than anything it is about setting the football philosophy of the club, having the right ethos for the sake of stability and continuity. Not only does this man need to be able, he also needs to be loyal and in it for the long run. So who is that man???????

Ideally we needed this man in before SS was taken on because then he would have been involved in the choice.....it just didn't happen that way.

SS has IMO shown from his comments since his inception that he is clearly and totally on-the-ball about the direction the club and the aspects that need to be right to bring about progress – the man thinks and talks just as a good DoF should. All that remains to be seen is that his football works and we are laughing.

The point of a DoF is about having the 'right' person, not just having one for one's sake!

 

[luiandlui]

A DoF would take this football club absolutely nowhere in the short term and could potentially take us a long way backwards if the wrong person was appointed. I haven't seen a single decent argument for one on this thread.

 

[long ball man]

A DoF would take this football club absolutely nowhere in the short term and could potentially take us a long way backwards if the wrong person was appointed. I haven't seen a single decent argument for one on this thread.

Have you read it?

 

[Sussexbaggie]

A DoF would take this football club absolutely nowhere in the short term and could potentially take us a long way backwards if the wrong person was appointed. I haven't seen a single decent argument for one on this thread.

Agreed it wont be a short term fix, but if you dont get one in now you will still be having these conversations in 5 years time. A bad appointment of a DoF would take you backwards but so would a bad CEO,manager, £10m CF etc so I dont really see how that is relevant. A good appointment will set your club up long term. I have seen it said in this thread that its nothing more than a glorified job title, ask any Albion fan about the job Ashworth does and see if they think its glorified (I assume Hammond is the same at Reading) hence why despite Hodgson leaving being a blow it doesn't seem to have affected the club in any way (so far at least) and the fans would be far more concerned about Ashworth leaving for the FA.

Despite this (if it does happen) the new guy that Peace brings in will be somebody who shares the same vision that Ashworth will leave behind and operate the same way with the same constraints. In short with a DoF in place and operating how it should do we will/could lose our manager and DoF in the space of 3 months and on the surface nothing will have changed.

 

[long ball man]

Agreed it wont be a short term fix, but if you dont get one in now you will still be having these conversations in 5 years time. A bad appointment of a DoF would take you backwards but so would a bad CEO,manager, £10m CF etc so I dont really see how that is relevant. A good appointment will set your club up long term. I have seen it said in this thread that its nothing more than a glorified job title, ask any Albion fan about the job Ashworth does and see if they think its glorified (I assume Hammond is the same at Reading) hence why despite Hodgson leaving being a blow it doesn't seem to have affected the club in any way (so far at least) and the fans would be far more concerned about Ashworth leaving for the FA.

Despite this (if it does happen) the new guy that Peace brings in will be somebody who shares the same vision that Ashworth will leave behind and operate the same way with the same constraints. In short with a DoF in place and operating how it should do we will/could lose our manager and DoF in the space of 3 months and on the surface nothing will have changed.

Exactly.

Its a bitter pill to have to swallow from WBA. Effectively what they have is a succession and sustainability plan. Effectively what we have (and to be fair so do most clubs) is a reliance on a succession of managers with vastly differing ideas and approaches. Madness.

 

[kennyB]

I can see both sides of the discussion but I just wonder that if we had appointed a DoF prior to appointing Staale whether or not Staale would even have been in the picture to be the new manager. And if he hadn't been I wonder who and what players we would have bought/sold. If Staale turns out to be the right man eventually, whoever had the idea to approach and appoint him would deserve a lot of plaudits. Am not saying that is how it will turn out but it's possible, perhaps even likely.

 

[reanswolf]

Some very interesting points (and thansk to Sussex Baggie for your input too...ouch that hurt!)

So a DoF can/may be beneficial, but what we need more than anything is a CE or / and owner who stop making fundamentally floored errors of judgement. Moxey's philospohy simply means "money saving" at every angle, to transfers, to ticket pricing, customer products, to footballers contracts. Of course its good to value money and maximise income but this fixation over-rides any long term vision or sutainability or improvement that may occur long term. They are almost blinkered in my opinion, regards timing, customer relations, feelgood factors.

I am so pleased they intended to rebuil dteh ground, but why on earth are they doing this when they drive fans away through pricing, and more importantly I suppose, when the football is not going well.

 

[Sussexbaggie]

I can see both sides of the discussion but I just wonder that if we had appointed a DoF prior to appointing Staale whether or not Staale would even have been in the picture to be the new manager. And if he hadn't been I wonder who and what players we would have bought/sold. If Staale turns out to be the right man eventually, whoever had the idea to approach and appoint him would deserve a lot of plaudits. Am not saying that is how it will turn out but it's possible, perhaps even likely.

I see your point but the best case scenario is Stale takes you up and keeps you up in the first season before trying to establish you in season 2. As soon as that happens clubs like Everton, Fulham, Sunderland etc will be interested in him as well as teams abroad and at some point he will leave. When that happens do you think Moxey/Morgan already have a plan in mind on the kind of person they will want to replace him? I dont know who makes up your backroom staff but if SS has bought people in with him then they will all be off as well and he will almost definately take all his transfer targets with him leaving you having to start all over again, potentially with a new manager who doesnt like the style of play, players at his disposal, way training is conducted, the way transfers work at the club.

Worst case scenario is SS flops, the team is 18th at xmas and he gets sacked and a new man comes in, rips everything up and starts all over again. Either way its very likely that in 2/3 years you will be looking for a new manager and the right appointment as a DoF now will ensure that process is as smooth as possible (as well as numerous other benefits that have been discussed elsewhere)