3-5-2?

[goldfish]

I wonder if Nuno might switch back to this against better teams? It might be seen as a defensive move, but I think it could help us exert more control. I thought Neves and Dendoncker both played quite well individually yesterday, but were too often isolated and Leicester ran through them with ease on occasion. This then nullified our having three attackers on the pitch. As such, I'd be keen to see us return to 3-5-2 in this sort of game, probably with Neto alongside Jimenez, and Moutinho added to the midfield. I'd probably stick with the 3-4-3 for easier opposition as it worked so well against Palace.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

No . Doesn’t work. Never enough of a ball forwards .

unless one of the 5 is otasowie or Neto / podence

 

[goldeneyed]

Looking at Maddison, even not totally match fit, you can see what we are missing. After that abject performance I would give Vitinha 45 minutes sooner rather than later. We need some creativity in the final third and supposedly he is the next Moutinho.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Looking at Maddison, even not totally match fit, you can see what we are missing. After that abject performance I would give Vitinha 45 minutes sooner rather than later. We need some creativity in the final third and supposedly he is the next Moutinho.

Maddison played in one of the front three positions yesterday. If he was in the side he'd be replacing one of neto or podence.
For what it is worth I didn't think Maddison really created much more than any of our lot tbh.

 

[tamwolf]

Its like groundhog day. 3-4-3 or 3-5-2. The only options we ever have after a disappointing performance. Never changes much.

 

[Minimalist]

Not quite sure we have the right partner for Jimenez in a 2 now.

 

[Bugsy911]

The lack of control we have is a concern and would think this is the answer to it if we dont plan on going to a back 4 anytime soon....

 

[reanswolf]

Maddison played in one of the front three positions yesterday. If he was in the side he'd be replacing one of neto or podence.
For what it is worth I didn't think Maddison really created much more than any of our lot tbh.

I thought he was a class above anything we had to be honest. I would never class him as a forward, he is an attacking midfielder.

But then again I have thought that since I saw him for Norwich down here in the 2-2 draw when they scored when John Ruddy conceded 95th minute.

He drives through the middle, evading tackles a bit like Jack Grealish. A top top quality player.

 

[goldeneyed]

Maddison played in one of the front three positions yesterday. If he was in the side he'd be replacing one of neto or podence.
For what it is worth I didn't think Maddison really created much more than any of our lot tbh.

He is still feeling his way back after injury and I would not judge him on one performance. Seen him play brilliantly on so many other occasions. But he was still very good I thought. Not so much up front but attacking and just behind Vardy. He would be a No.10 in a 352 ideally but is very adaptable.

 

[WolfLing]

Could work in a similar way to how England set up at the 2018 World Cup. As in, with a back 3/5 with wingbacks, 1 deeper midfield player and 2 more progressive midfield players either side.

Neves would be the deeper 'pivot' type player in most instances. Depending on the game, any 2 of Dendoncker, Moutinho, Otasowie, Vitinha, Neto or Podence could play either side.

The 'blend' would be dependent on the game or the situation. 2 box to box types either side in Otasowie and Dendoncker, or 2 very attacking players in Neto and Podence if we are chasing a game. Or a blend with Moutinho or Dendoncker, plus one of the others.

It's also a very similar midfield set up to how City lined up a few seasons ago with Fernandinho sitting, with David Silva and Kevin De Bruyne either side. They are like half midfield players, half wingers at times.

It's one of the only ways to get another central player into our attacking phases while still maintaining the back 3/5 with wingbacks. With Neto dropping a little deeper at times this season, we haven't been too far off playing that way anyway.

I'd like to see Silva given more minutes in a 2 with Raul and this helps get us there.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I thought he was a class above anything we had to be honest. I would never class him as a forward, he is an attacking midfielder.

But then again I have thought that since I saw him for Norwich down here in the 2-2 draw when they scored when John Ruddy conceded 95th minute.

He drives through the middle, evading tackles a bit like Jack Grealish. A top top quality player.

Again though, Leicester matched us up in terms of formation. Maddison was playing in one on the roles occupied in our team by neto and podence. If there was a lack of someone driving with the ball running at players it was because these guys weren't at it.
The reality is that they usually do that quite well.

 

[WolfLing]

Not quite sure we have the right partner for Jimenez in a 2 now.

It would be interesting to give Traore a free role off Raul.

Could do some damage.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Don't see how we can switch to a 3-5-2.

We aren't attacking enough now and this is losing an attacking option for a midfield player.

Also Silva would probably have to start and there's nothing to suggest he is up to it right now.

3-4-3 with Traore and Podence for Southampton for me. I can't imagine the stick Traore would have got on here if he played like Neto did yesterday. Ran the ball out of play on a few occasions, awful final balls. After a few nothing appearances, that was Traore's most promising sub display yesterday, looked a bit more focused and ready but Leicester did mark him well with all those defenders on.

 

[goldfish]

We aren't attacking enough now and this is losing an attacking option for a midfield player.

I agree it's ostensibly defensive, but there's little point having attacking players on the pitch if you can't get the ball to them.

 

[Royal wolf]

It would be interesting to give Traore a free role off Raul.

Could do some damage.

He would just push to the right to his natural position I think. We need someone specifically for that role

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

I don’t know why we don’t play podence as number 10. After all, he is number 10

 

[clivewolves]

We've tried 3-5-2 several times this season I didn't see it working as well as 3-4-3 does. If we continue with three at the back,which I've no doubt we will, I think 3-4-3 is our best formation.

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

It would be interesting to give Traore a free role off Raul.

Could do some damage.

If Traore had a free role he would still stand in one place on the field and wait for the ball to be played to his feet.

It would be interesting to see him play wide on the left in the same way we deployed right footed Jarvis under Mick.

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

I would of gone 352 at half time yesterday or at some point. We didnt have enough control of the game and were often outnumbered in central midfield despite our midfield 2 playing well.
To have 3 up front you need them to have an end product, as much as we like Podence and Neto theres not a strong case to suggest they will bring goals and assists, they for the majority are no where near Raul to offer enough link up play, for what the front 3 are offering its not worth losing a midfielder for.

 

[Bugsy911]

It would be interesting to give Traore a free role off Raul.

Could do some damage.

Traroe has been pretty awful when played up top for us , he is a quality and our most creative player however the system we use just doesnt suit him , i would much rather we sold him and kept Jota.

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

I would of gone 352 at half time yesterday or at some point. We didnt have enough control of the game and were often outnumbered in central midfield despite our midfield 2 playing well.
To have 3 up front you need them to have an end product, as much as we like Podence and Neto theres not a strong case to suggest they will bring goals and assists, they for the majority are no where near Raul to offer enough link up play, for what the front 3 are offering its not worth losing a midfielder for.

Matt Holland was Co commentator on Bein.

He said after around 30 mins, I'd like to see Dendonker just slot in alongside Neves for 10 minutes and kerb his runs to support. At least until Wolves get a foothold in midfield. Neves is being over run at the moment.

 

[92WWFC]

I do find the love of Maddison quite funny, the guy had a decent season two years ago and hasn't done much since. He certainly wasn't particularly amazing yesterday, yeah he's got a bit of skill but we have plenty of skilfull players.

I don't think a mythical CAM solves all our problems for me 343 is our best formation we just haven't clicked as a collective unit yet consistently this season.
Neto and Podence don't play as out and out wingers for us either only Traore would count.

 

[WolfLing]

Again though, Leicester matched us up in terms of formation. Maddison was playing in one on the roles occupied in our team by neto and podence. If there was a lack of someone driving with the ball running at players it was because these guys weren't at it.
The reality is that they usually do that quite well.

Spot on. Leicester have been setting up almost exactly the same as us recently.

We both don't concede many, take out the 4-0 and 3-0 West Ham defeats for both sides and it's just 5 and 6 goals conceded in the other 7 games.

The difference being, Leicester have scored 18 to our 8.

Leicester have started their last few games with Vardy up top and Barnes and Praet in behind, exactly how we are lining up with Raul, Neto and Podence. They are then bringing on Maddison and/or Perez on as impact subs.

Raul is our Vardy. Podence and Neto are our Praet and Barnes. Traore is our Perez and I suppose Vitinha is our Maddison. Iheanacho is their backup centre forward, so their Silva.

Direct league goal comparisons for the forward players by the positions they play are:

Raul 4 vs Vardy 8
Podence 1 vs Praet 1
Neto 1 vs Barnes 2
Traore 0 vs Perez 0
Iheanacho 0 vs Silva 0
Vitinha 0 vs Maddison 3

Tielemans has also got 3 from midfield. He is box to box for them, so would be compared to Dendoncker, who probably should have 3 too, but still has 0 for the season.

We knew to progress again this season, others would need to contribute goals. So far, that's not really happened. Despite getting half the goals of Vardy, Raul is still producing with 1 in 2. The only worrying thing is he's hardly had a chance in the last couple of games.

Leicester are probably our benchmark at the moment. They play the sort of football Nuno has said he wants to move to, and they score a decent amount of goals without compromising their defensive solidarity.

Player for player, I think we are better. They just have a lot more Premier League experience and started their transition to a more possession based footballing side years ago.

I think it will click for us too this season, but it might take some time.

 

[MasWolf]

3-5-2 but one of the 5 should be an attacking mid and support the two up top working just behind them. Perhaps Podence would work well behind Neto and Raul.

 

[Benny78]

How about a 3-4-1-2?

Rui
Boly-Coady-Kilman
Semedo-Neves-Donk-Ait Nouri
Podence
Raul-Neto

Surely Podence has enough craft to create opportunities.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Spot on. Leicester have been setting up almost exactly the same as us recently.

We both don't concede many, take out the 4-0 and 3-0 West Ham defeats for both sides and it's just 5 and 6 goals conceded in the other 7 games.

The difference being, Leicester have scored 18 to our 8.

Leicester have started their last few games with Vardy up top and Barnes and Praet in behind, exactly how we are lining up with Raul, Neto and Podence. They are then bringing on Maddison and/or Perez on as impact subs.

Raul is our Vardy. Podence and Neto are our Praet and Barnes. Traore is our Perez and I suppose Vitinha is our Maddison. Iheanacho is their backup centre forward, so their Silva.

Direct league goal comparisons for the forward players by the positions they play are:

Raul 4 vs Vardy 8
Podence 1 vs Praet 1
Neto 1 vs Barnes 2
Traore 0 vs Perez 0
Iheanacho 0 vs Silva 0
Vitinha 0 vs Maddison 3

Tielemans has also got 3 from midfield. He is box to box for them, so would be compared to Dendoncker, who probably should have 3 too, but still has 0 for the season.

We knew to progress again this season, others would need to contribute goals. So far, that's not really happened. Despite getting half the goals of Vardy, Raul is still producing with 1 in 2. The only worrying thing is he's hardly had a chance in the last couple of games.

Leicester are probably our benchmark at the moment. They play the sort of football Nuno has said he wants to move to and score a decent amount of goals without compromising their defensive solidarity.

Player for player, I think we are better. They just have a lot more Premier League experience and started their transition to a more possession based footballing side years ago.

I think it will click for us too this season, but it might take some time.

8 penalties would help us somewhat.

 

[WolfLing]

8 penalties would help us somewhat.

And there you go. 8 penalties and we'd probably be top of the league too.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

How about a 3-4-1-2?

Rui
Boly-Coady-Kilman
Semedo-Neves-Donk-Ait Nouri
Podence
Raul-Neto

Surely Podence has enough craft to create opportunities.

I don't see that as being different to the 3-4-3 to call it a different formation. Within games we have switched to be more like this set up at times.
I'd expect the 3 to keep changing shape throughout games.

 

[jrpb-3]

8 penalties would help us somewhat.

to win penalties you need players running in the box that defenders need to stop so no surprise we don't win many

 

[WolfLing]

I don't see that as being different to the 3-4-3 to call it a different formation. Within games we have switched to be more like this set up at times.
I'd expect the 3 to keep changing throughout games.

Against Palace, despite starting the game 3-4-2-1 (a variation of 3-4-3), our average positions actually show we were more like 3-4-1-2, with Raul dropping in as the '1'. Like you say, I'd expect the forwards to adapt to the situation in the game with regards to their positioning.

 

[WolfLing]

to win penalties you need players running in the box that defenders need to stop so no surprise we don't win many

Or, as we learnt at the weekend, crosses at waist height.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

to win penalties you need players running in the box that defenders need to stop so no surprise we don't win many

I think we will in time. Podence is technically very good. That free kick he won wasn't miles away from being a penalty. Good quick reactions from the defender to take him down when he did!

 

[WolfLing]

to win penalties you need players running in the box that defenders need to stop so no surprise we don't win many

It's actually a good point though. Man United and Leicester are way ahead last season and this season for penalties won.

Most of Leicester's penalties have come from clear fouls in the box (only a couple have been via VAR). Man United were similar last season too.

Both teams have players that drive into the box, drawing the foul.

As WolfinSheep'sClothing says, maybe Podence and Neto will adapt and start doing the same. Traore definitely could and should do it more.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Traore definitely could and should do it more.

The problem with that is he's too big. You can rip his arm off and it isn't even given a foul.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Looking at Maddison, even not totally match fit, you can see what we are missing. After that abject performance I would give Vitinha 45 minutes sooner rather than later. We need some creativity in the final third and supposedly he is the next Moutinho.

Thought the exact same

Tielemans is good but we have that sort of player in Neves

The midfielder who drives on and makes things happen is missing from our squad.

 

[WolfLing]

The problem with that is he's too big. You can rip his arm off and it isn't even given a foul.

Just tell him to run with it and not to stop until he hits the net then!

 

[Tring Wolf]

Against Palace, despite starting the game 3-4-2-1 (a variation of 3-4-3), our average positions actually show we were more like 3-4-1-2, with Raul dropping in as the '1'. Like you say, I'd expect the forwards to adapt to the situation in the game with regards to their positioning.

View attachment 18340

Find this sort of stuff fascinating. These are the stats and average positions from yesterday’s game. All looks very even (their wingback’s slightly higher and an extra man in midfield). Can see that we perhaps left Ait-Nouri a little exposed.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Find this sort of stuff fascinating. These are the stats and average positions from yesterday’s game. All looks very even (their wingback’s slightly higher and an extra man in midfield). Can see that we perhaps left Ait-Nouri a little exposed.

View attachment 18341View attachment 18342View attachment 18343View attachment 18344

Jimenez's average position being below Podence's is ridiculous.

We need him to stay up top.

 

[Alienwolf]

We need to adapt our formation, based upon the opposition. Against Palace, 3-4-3 was spot-on, as there was plenty of room for the wing backs to attack, but against Leicester, there was no room at all, so it appeared to be that we needed to move Podence into a central 10 position, with 2 up top. That, however, is a little too simplistic, as the midfield has to adapt as well.
Moving forward, 3-4-3 against Southampton should be ok.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Don't see how we can switch to a 3-5-2.

We aren't attacking enough now and this is losing an attacking option for a midfield player.

Also Silva would probably have to start and there's nothing to suggest he is up to it right now.

3-4-3 with Traore and Podence for Southampton for me. I can't imagine the stick Traore would have got on here if he played like Neto did yesterday. Ran the ball out of play on a few occasions, awful final balls. After a few nothing appearances, that was Traore's most promising sub display yesterday, looked a bit more focused and ready but Leicester did mark him well with all those defenders on.

The reality of a bad summer window is already coming home. No attacking cmf bought (Vitinha not ready?) and £35 mil on a CF who is also not ready? However you like to dress it up we've really ****ed up. Up for a CL place last season and now going backwards into some kind of transition? I just hope Nuno has a plan to get us going because right now I can't see what it is tbh.