3-4-3 or 3-5-2

[Taffywolf]

We have gone between these 2 formations under nuno reign. What's people's favoured formation for us when everyone is fit?
I think the 3-5-2 suits us better, it let's us get more control of the game in midfield and with 2 strikers we have more bodies in the area when we get crosses in.
I really don't think playing with 2 wide strikers and 2 wingback gets us enough bodies into the box. It just seems a bit overloaded out wide and not in the area.
At the moment we are lacking numbers in our squad so a another quality midfielder and forward would be helpful....

 

[Royal wolf]

We switched to 3-4-3 this season because we were playing poorly and creating nothing for weeks. Jota and Jimenez weren’t clicking like last season. Add that to Adama’s form this season with him being our main threat out wide. He’s too valuable to drop. Can he be tried again in a front 2? It’s failed before but his confidence is high currently.
Were we at our best last season playing 3-5-2 with jota and Jimenez up top performing exceptionally or this season playing 3-4-3 with Adama in the form he’s in?

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Buy in a good CB, and play them with Boly in a 2. We then get to keep the 3 man midfield and the 3 forwards. No top team plays 3 at the back, and you can see why in our games, we are too deep most of the time and struggle against defensive teams because our formation causes us to not get forward in enough numbers.

 

[Hot Fuss]

Buy in a good CB, and play them with Boly in a 2. We then get to keep the 3 man midfield and the 3 forwards. No top team plays 3 at the back, and you can see why in our games, we are too deep most of the time and struggle against defensive teams because our formation causes us to not get forward in enough numbers.

Completely agree. For us to really push the elite we need to go 4 at the back in the next 18 months.

currently dont have the centre backs to do it.

 

[Metal Wolf89]

We rely on our WB's to create the width and get themselves in the box, albeit this is mostly Doherty and Vinagre that do this. In the first half against man united the front three were getting no support from midfield by Saiss or Neves, crosses were going in and only Benny was in the box!

 

[FJRWolf]

Which ever system works for the teams we play against, think I'll let Nuno make those decisions, seems to be working ok so far

 

[Flea]

Depends on the players at one´s disposal.
Generally speaking 3-5-2 is the better alternative.
Most football matches is won or lost at midfield.

 

[Deleted member 5910]

Buy in a good CB, and play them with Boly in a 2. We then get to keep the 3 man midfield and the 3 forwards. No top team plays 3 at the back, and you can see why in our games, we are too deep most of the time and struggle against defensive teams because our formation causes us to not get forward in enough numbers.

Do you mean we should abandon the wingback system, and lose Coady?

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Do you mean we should abandon the wingback system, and lose Coady?

Coady, yes, the wing backs, no. The top teams play with very attacking FBs/WBs.

 

[Deleted member 5910]

Coady, yes, the wing backs, no. The top teams play with very attacking FBs/WBs.

So realistically, that's at least three first team signings- not counting squad depth. A CB, and two marauding fullbacks. Doherty isn't a good full back defensively at all as we've seen in the pre-Fosun years (and depends on the RCB defensively) , and Jonny doesn't get forward much at WB, let alone FB. Lose our sweeper-captain too, and that's massive destabilisation to our defensive unit in the short term. Not saying it's something we can't aspire to, but not something in the next couple of transfer windows for me.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

So realistically, that's at least three first team signings- not counting squad depth. A CB, and two marauding fullbacks. Doherty isn't a good full back defensively at all as we've seen in the pre-Fosun years (and depends on the RCB defensively) , and Jonny doesn't get forward much at WB, let alone FB. Lose our sweeper-captain too, and that's massive destabilisation to our defensive unit in the short term. Not saying it's something we can't aspire to, but not something in the next couple of transfer windows for me.

Its something we should be aiming towards if we want to be a real top team. Our current setup is too defensive to keep progressing as more and more teams will sit back against our current formation, making Coady's position redundant and we could use the extra body further up.

 

[Deleted member 5910]

Its something we should be aiming towards if we want to be a real top team. Our current setup is too defensive to keep progressing as more and more teams will sit back against our current formation, making Coady's position redundant and we could use the extra body further up.

I agree, as (if) we become a top 4 side consistently, that a wingback system can be rather easily defended, even by mediocre sides (as we've seen). Up to Nuno to gradually implement a less defensive system that lets us play further up the pitch and dominate games- may come about with more quality additions generally.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Is this a serious thread

have you watched us this season

 

[Narfolk Wolf]

Is this a serious thread

have you watched us this season

Worth discussing surely.
I thought the 352 worked well against Liverpool.

 

[ShropshireLad]

We have gone between these 2 formations under nuno reign. What's people's favoured formation for us when everyone is fit?
I think the 3-5-2 suits us better, it let's us get more control of the game in midfield and with 2 strikers we have more bodies in the area when we get crosses in.
I really don't think playing with 2 wide strikers and 2 wingback gets us enough bodies into the box. It just seems a bit overloaded out wide and not in the area.
At the moment we are lacking numbers in our squad so a another quality midfielder and forward would be helpful....

I reckon it depends upon who we’re playing and how they’re set up, Taff.

 

[oldgoldheart]

Worth discussing surely.
I thought the 352 worked well against Liverpool.

It didnt. They overran us. We reverted to 343 secind half and dominated them

 

[Taffywolf]

I reckon it depends upon who we’re playing and how they’re set up, Taff.

Good point and agree.
A few of the right signings will give us the flexibility to swap when needed during games as well. I personally prefer the 3-5-2 myself but think were missing a class midfielder of the right kind to utilise it properly,

 

[ShropshireLad]

Good point and agree.
A few of the right signings will give us the flexibility to swap when needed during games as well. I personally prefer the 3-5-2 myself but think were missing a class midfielder of the right kind to utilise it properly,

Aren’t Neves and Moutinho good enough? Our system isn’t one to accommodate a box to box player if that’s what you were thinking.

 

[Taffywolf]

Aren’t Neves and Moutinho good enough? Our system isn’t one to accommodate a box to box player if that’s what you were thinking.

Of course they're good enough but in my opinion we need a different kind of player to play with them in a 3, Neves, Moutinho and a Maddison/Grealish type link player would change the dinamics of the team, we'd be a threat down the sides and through the middle. Neves natural position is deeper, moutinho is a genius and dictates play and a different type of player would make us better again imo.

 

[ShropshireLad]

Of course they're good enough but in my opinion we need a different kind of player to play with them in a 3, Neves, Moutinho and a Maddison/Grealish type link player would change the dinamics of the team, we'd be a threat down the sides and through the middle. Neves natural position is deeper, moutinho is a genius and dictates play and a different type of player would make us better again imo.

Fair comment; so you mean a box to box player?

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

3-4-3 all the way for me.
Since we switched back to it we've looked like world beaters.
Our midfield looks better for having just the 2 of them. I'm surprised anybody wants to go back to 3-5-2 given the way we started the season and our response since switching.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Aren’t Neves and Moutinho good enough? Our system isn’t one to accommodate a box to box player if that’s what you were thinking.

Ideally we'd have a 3-4-1-3 but I don't think that would be allowed.

 

[ShropshireLad]

Ideally we'd have a 3-4-1-3 but I don't think that would be allowed.

That one in the middle pops up from time to time against us and is the ref.

 

[Glass ankles]

3-4-3

 

[Narfolk Wolf]

We need the flexibility to change during games. Norwich first half we looked far from world beaters and seem to be to rigid with formations when it's not working. Don't know if that's on field leadership or they have to stick to the plan until Nuno makes changes.

 

[WalsallWolf]

3-4-3

If you watch us closely compared to last season when we used this, we have adapted and evolved. Dendoncker and Saiss push far further forward than what Boly/Bennett would have. Whether that is down to them being more comfortable on the ball is another debate, but with those two pushing forward, means the rest of the side do. Moutinho and Neves are far more forward and involved than they were in previous 3-4-3 where they predominantly sat.

In performances alone, we have been brilliant since the Palace game when we switched to this formation. Only the harshest of critic would point to a bad performance.

 

[Taffywolf]

3-4-3

If you watch us closely compared to last season when we used this, we have adapted and evolved. Dendoncker and Saiss push far further forward than what Boly/Bennett would have. Whether that is down to them being more comfortable on the ball is another debate, but with those two pushing forward, means the rest of the side do. Moutinho and Neves are far more forward and involved than they were in previous 3-4-3 where they predominantly sat.

In performances alone, we have been brilliant since the Palace game when we switched to this formation. Only the harshest of critic would point to a bad performance.

Good points mate and I agree with donks and Saiss we are comfortable in possession and either can ping a pass, i also think though when we give the ball to adama and he hits the byline we only have Raul in the box attacking the cross on many occasions.
Someone mentioned how we were fairing playing 3-5-2 but we don't imo have that one attacking midfielder to play in the 3, people we're talking about trying jota or even Raul there which I don't see working. We switched because we were getting bossed in midfield last season at times but I do think nuno has been working hard on different aspects of the formation and it deffo works better now

 

[Phitsanulok (Poole) Wolf]

Yes

 

[RobB]

Good points mate and I agree with donks and Saiss we are comfortable in possession and either can ping a pass, i also think though when we give the ball to adama and he hits the byline we only have Raul in the box attacking the cross on many occasions.
Someone mentioned how we were fairing playing 3-5-2 but we don't imo have that one attacking midfielder to play in the 3, people we're talking about trying jota or even Raul there which I don't see working. We switched because we were getting bossed in midfield last season at times but I do think nuno has been working hard on different aspects of the formation and it deffo works better now

I don't think the 343 as we are playing it is working as well as it could, so many times Traore gets the ball wide only to see the ball sail in to no man's land, it is very dull and rarely works. We do require a rethink as we aren't as lethal going forward as last season, we aren't as tight defensively either, although I think that is more Boly missing. Either way we need to be better in both boxes. I wouldn't say 352 is the way as we relied very much on JotaJimenez parrnership and interplay to conjure up something from nothing, but I feel with Neves and Moutinho providing the platform we should be looking a lot better going forward.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I don't see why we should switch to 4 at the back.
We ain't going to get anywhere by aping the big teams. We have our own style of playing; it works. It involves spreading the play rather than staying compact and trying to play through teams.
Before man united we'd scored in every game we played 3-4-3. If anything it's our defence that need to cut out the silly mistakes for us to kick on to the next level, and the likes of Jota to be more consistent.

 

[JayStringer]

For most of Nuno's tenure we've played 343 and been an exciting, attacking, team with devastating overlap play. That formation took us out of the champion ship in style and helped us run to fifth this season. For six months or so of his time we played 352 and played very defensive counter attack football that helped us consolidate in the league, take on some of the big teams, and go on a cup run.

343 has to be seen as our best formation. 352 is a good alternative when fitness or fixture congestion demands a little pragmatism.

 

[JayStringer]

If anything it's our defence that need to cut out the silly mistakes for us to kick on to the next level, and the likes of Jota to be more consistent.

Agreed. The transfer focus seems to have shifted back to attackers, and I'm very hesitant to criticise Saiss and Dendoncker because they've been doing very well all things considered, but to my mind Dendoncker isn't a top level centre back. He makes too many mistakes per game and loses players too often. With Boly coming back I'm not too worried about two of the back three spots, but I really think the team would improve in leaps and bounds if we finally signed a top quality right centre back.

 

[Taffywolf]

We are not getting enough bodies into the box when we attack, our 2 midfielders play very deep, Adama hugs the right touchline and Neto the left. Our 2 wingbacks get forward so we get more players wide in attacking positions than we do in the box.
Bruce done a job on us yesterday, stopped the ball getting to Adama and took away our main attacking threat, imo we need a quality attacking midfielder and another striker, the way it's going Raul will get injured getting slogged

 

[Deleted member 4456]

It might make a difference if we were to move the ball at more than a snail's pace from time to time.

 

[Taffywolf]

It might make a difference if we were to move the ball at more than a snail's pace from time to time.

Agree, was frustrating, numerous times Adama had space but by the time we shifted the ball to doc via Saiss, coady and donks he had 3 guys marking him.

 

[Hot Fuss]

Currently having the same problems with the 343 as we did last season. Raul isolated and the ball being moved slowly sideways in front of the opposition.

 

[R1ch]

Agree with most of the comments here especially regarding 4 at the back. Yesterday would be the type of game a back 4 might be better suited to. Seems a waste having 5 defenders and 2 deep midfielders against a team like Newcastle who are hardly going to attack in droves. Could have easily moved to a back 4 yesterday stuck one of the defenders in midfield and push Neves closer to Jimenez.

The current system works well vs top sides when we can sit back get men behind the ball and hit them on the break with the pace of jota and Traore but vs teams like Newcastle we don't get enough players from midfield into the box. Neves and Moutinho certainly havnt got the freedom that a Maddison has to get forward and create or score.

Liverpool are a great team no doubt about it and pretty much in a league of their own so you can't really compare but. Trent and Robertson pretty much act as offensively as our wing backs but they have an extra man in midfield whilst Firmino drops deep to link up. It's a different system to how we play and obviously they have the players to do it.

A back 4 has a lot more flexibility than the 5 and its difficult to change in game when things arnt working out. Nuno has played with the 4 at Valencia so I wouldnt totally rule it out but I'd be shocked if he changed.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Thing for me is in games like yesterday in possession we are playing 433. 3CHs (all midfielders) joined by another midfielder and then wing backs and the other midfielder behind a front 3. Hence we never come through the middle because there's nobody there.

 

[Deleted member 4436]

They’re both pretty similar in our situation if the third MF is an attacking one - like MGW but PL level.

Jimenez drops quite deep at times, so you could argue that we’re not that far off when on the ball. The emphasis would then be on the wider of the three to populate the box when attacking (or WBs).

My only worry is that Neves would become ineffective again.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

They’re both pretty similar in our situation if the third MF is an attacking one - like MGW but PL level.

Jimenez drops quite deep at times, so you could argue that we’re not that far off when on the ball. The emphasis would then be on the wider of the three to populate the box when attacking (or WBs).

My only worry is that Neves would become ineffective again.

For that we would need a new right forward, or move Traore to the left.

Its something I find strange about our current formation, in a 3-4-3 the two wide forwards are usually inverted so they cut inside, with the wingbacks being the ones to stay wide. With us, we have an inverted wingback in Jonny, and an inverted forward in Jota, and on the other side, we have a natural winger and a wing back, meaning on both sides we have players trying to operate in the same space, rather than taking advantage of space they should be making for each other.

Add to that it makes our formation a bit lopsided and unbalanced towards the right side.