Everton, surely a points deduction?

[CelebrityWolf]

So basically Everton and Forest are probably going to achieve their start of season target of staying in the league. I don’t see what they’ve lost by cheating?!

I sincerely hope they both stay up and I then hope they both sue the prem for the absolute bull**** they are spouting about rules when multiple clubs have 'cheated' to get where they are.

The whole thing makes me sick. The prem is a joke.

 

[Darvo]

Unless your a lifelong mega rich fan of a club or mega rich Uk football lover, I’m totally bemused and have been for a long time as to why you would invest in something that consistently runs up large losses, even when the club you own are successful on the pitch.
It’s far from perfect but I agree with the principle of a points deduction for clubs who significantly overspend more than the revenue received. Portsmouth are an example of a club who had a spell of success on phoney finance and are now finally on the brink of making it back to the Championship after years in League 1.

Prestige, exposure or a play thing?

 

[JohnB]

What would be really funny would be an appeal by Forest and Everton and an increased points deduction!

Possible?

 

[Watfordfc]

The whole thing is so complicated at the moment, but I read that the new rule changes due to be introduced will effectively let Man City off the hook, and probably Chelsea too. The whole thing seems utterly corrupt to me.

Not sure about Man C as their cases has started but yes potentially avoids new teams getting caught out which I agree wouldn’t be fair .

Mind you if this is the standard barer they might as well take the risk now .

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

We started the season with people saying the PL had finally grown some balls and was going to actually enforce their rules. People praised Shi for seeing this coming and keeping our house in order. Now it turns out that they whole thing is a farce. Whoever invented the idea that clubs are spending more than they're allowed to without 'gaining a sporting advantage' should be first against the wall.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Just reading The Athletic article on it. Just gets worse and worse.

3 reasons for mitigation....

Double jeopardy - which is ridiculous as I said before.

Losing the USM sponsorship - which really just proves that Usmanov was sponsoring them above the market rate against the rules as a PSR dodge.

Admitting the breach - but in fact they are still trying to dodge the size of the breach using the same argument about interest payments that was found to be wrong previously.

 

[wolfie_tc]

I honestly think that the PLs worst nightmare is a season (relegations, Europe spots etc) being dictated by points deductions, so they've looked at what the maximum amount they can both lose without getting relegated and just gone with that.

Then Luton don't have much of a leg to stand on as PL will just hold their hands up and say 'but we did punish them..'

I also think Forest can thank their lucky stars that one of the PLs golden children were getting punished the same year, as another year they could have been made an example of with a 10 point deduction no appeal, but having Everton get off so lightly they had to do similar for Forest.

The whole thing stinks and it's going to be an interesting summer to see who just goes 'what's the point' and blows their transfer records.

 

[Golden Oldie]

Do you reckon if Everton keep losing and drop into the bottom 3 the Premier league will say they made a mistake and give them their two pts back.

I think there would be a few people tearing their hair out if the 'mistake' couldn't be overcome by some fudging manoeuvre.

 

[Mardenboroughs Shoulder]

Now you know that if we'd transgressed we would have had 12 points minimum.

 

[Mardenboroughs Shoulder]

Surely if the new sustainability model is linked to turnover it makes building a 50k stadium all the more urgent?

 

[wwbug]

What a waste of time and energy. Break the FFP rules once and you get almost the same punishment as a late goal in extra time.
It's a joke .

 

[RosehillWolf]

777 have asked for extra time to buy the club. Being pushed back a month. Something not right there methinks…. Also requested delay in payment interest of £160m loan for the stadium. Eek

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

777 have asked for extra time to buy the club. Being pushed back a month. Something not right there methinks…. Also requested delay in payment interest of £160m loan for the stadium. Eek

Yet they have people ready to step in apparently….. Very very fishy

The PL clearly don’t want them relegated.

They go into admin after the season is finished it will roll to next season. Total farce.

Moshiri Isn’t walking away and they are deep in the mud. Time for the PL to act and sanction them properly.

777 Partners - New Poll Added 18/10/23

so they are tryna get the money to buy us? we’re the f as the money they give been coming from? god we really do need a miracle

www.grandoldteam.com

Good reading here lol

 

[WW1963]

777 have asked for extra time to buy the club. Being pushed back a month. Something not right there methinks…. Also requested delay in payment interest of £160m loan for the stadium. Eek

They're like a small time gambler in a Martin Scorsese film. The boss has given them chance after chance to pay up and they've made promise after promise but refuse to pay up until later.

I'm sure they think they are untouchable. Send the equivalent of Joe Pesci in and get the job done.

 

[Starsky]

No way will the PL want to be seen to have approved them as owners, given the chaos of this season so far.

Everton are the new Portsmouth.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

No way will the PL want to be seen to have approved them as owners, given the chaos of this season so far.

Everton are the new Portsmouth.

Fingers crossed

 

[derbyrameater]

Everton are to be awarded the PL title as compensation for they stress they have had to endure

 

[JohnB]

Everton are to be awarded the PL title as compensation for they stress they have had to endure

They’d still bloody moan it should be two titles and CL and think it is a conspiracy by the Tories, King and the Sun against them. Then that well known Mayor of Manchester Andy Burnham would get Sir Keir to grant them independence and we’d all be happy - Spexit.

 

[Wigan Wolf]

They’d still bloody moan it should be two titles and CL and think it is a conspiracy by the Tories, King and the Sun against them. Then that well known Mayor of Manchester Andy Burnham would get Sir Keir to grant them independence and we’d all be happy - Spexit.

Why the Sun?

 

[Ned]

Surely if the new sustainability model is linked to turnover it makes building a 50k stadium all the more urgent?

We wouldn’t fill it. West Ham tickets were on general sale the day before the game so there’s no chance we fill 50k week in week out unless season ticket prices were halved.

 

[wwbug]

We wouldn’t fill it. West Ham tickets were on general sale the day before the game so there’s no chance we fill 50k week in week out unless season ticket prices were halved.

Chicken or egg ?

 

[Dubwolf71]

Chicken or egg ?

Both.

 

[Pete]

So if we had not sold the players in the summer would we be in a better or worse position now?

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

So if we had not sold the players in the summer would we be in a better or worse position now?

Only one player people was concerned about leaving and that was Neves.

 

[Fenrir_]

Only one player people was concerned about leaving and that was Neves.

The manager also left, and what would we give for even a half fit Raúl now? Without the efforts to make sure we were the right side of the rules we'd be in a much better position on the pitch, and maybe an FA Cup semi final

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

The manager also left, and what would we give for even a half fit Raúl now? Without the efforts to make sure we were the right side of the rules we'd be in a much better position on the pitch, and maybe an FA Cup semi final

Not losing at Wembley again is probably a good thing. For this season anyway… Even if we beat Coventry, Utd would wipe the floor with this team. Unfortunately that’s the reality the hope and anger that we will never know won’t change anything

 

[WickedWolfie]

Why the Sun?

The Scum is universally loathed in Merseyside after it's Hillsborough reporting.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Not losing at Wembley again is probably a good thing. For this season anyway… Even if we beat Coventry, Utd would wipe the floor with this team. Unfortunately that’s the reality the hope and anger that we will never know won’t change anything

Will they? We’ve played them off the park twice. Yes we lost, but we wouldn’t be battered.

Cunha and hwang would be fit and up front together too

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Will they? We’ve played them off the park twice. Yes we lost, but we wouldn’t be battered.

Cunha and hwang would be fit and up front together too

It’s all in the past we have to move forward on the day we wasn’t good enough

 

[Fenrir_]

Not losing at Wembley again is probably a good thing. For this season anyway… Even if we beat Coventry, Utd would wipe the floor with this team. Unfortunately that’s the reality the hope and anger that we will never know won’t change anything

Why would they? And we wouldn't necessarily be against Man U

What cannot be argued with is we significantly reduced our capability on the pitch to stay inside the financial rules, and while those rules were the 10pt deduction Everton initially got it was prudent to do so, it has turned out that all we've done is handicap ourselves when the slap on the wrist that Everton and Forest have received would have been preferable

 

[Minimalist]

Why would they? And we wouldn't necessarily be against Man U

What cannot be argued with is we significantly reduced our capability on the pitch to stay inside the financial rules, and while those rules were the 10pt deduction Everton initially got it was prudent to do so, it has turned out that all we've done is handicap ourselves when the slap on the wrist that Everton and Forest have received would have been preferable

Regardless of the rules and punishments; how much do you think our owners should be prepared to lose each season? All our sales did was get us back on track to be LOSING £35,000,000 a season (on average). That isn’t sustainable for the majority of owners. Besides being prepared to lose even more than that does not guarantee success… just look at Everton and Forest, both lost more and have worse teams.
I broadly agree with ffp rules, I do think it needs to incur significant points deduction (10) for it to work. But even if ffp was just scrapped I think it’s fair for owners to want to limit losses or even aim to break even.

 

[Fenrir_]

Regardless of the rules and punishments; how much do you think our owners should be prepared to lose each season? All our sales did was get us back on track to be LOSING £35,000,000 a season (on average). That isn’t sustainable for the majority of owners. Besides being prepared to lose even more than that does not guarantee success… just look at Everton and Forest, both lost more and have worse teams.
I broadly agree with ffp rules, I do think it needs to incur significant points deduction (10) for it to work. But even if ffp was just scrapped I think it’s fair for owners to want to limit losses or even aim to break even.

I don't think they should be prepared to lose anything and I'm not in any way having a go at Fosun. I'm just stating that by trying to adhere to the rules, we handicapped ourselves more than other clubs that didn't and had we not tried to adhere to the rules we would probably have been better off. Which is a damning indictment of the PL and its governance

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Why would they? And we wouldn't necessarily be against Man U

What cannot be argued with is we significantly reduced our capability on the pitch to stay inside the financial rules, and while those rules were the 10pt deduction Everton initially got it was prudent to do so, it has turned out that all we've done is handicap ourselves when the slap on the wrist that Everton and Forest have received would have been preferable

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Also Fosun would never go down that route. Them looking bad here would have consequences in China and that’s not going to go down well.

What’s done is done. How we adapt and move forward is key. We can only learn from our mistakes and failures. Something that Fosun address in the summer has to be the larger squad and stadia upgrades.

If we stand still for too long 5 or so years now we will eventually get caught out and suffer relegation.

While our new self sustainability model is important. We shouldn’t sell everyone for the sake of money UNLESS they are very good offers. That way we can always build for the future.

Gary has to be backed first of all. Especially if we want to keep him here.

We can go on about the past and the cup game all we want. The fact is we lost in some ridiculous circumstances. Whoever we played would of been a very hard game. We can only accept the past and help that bad experience make us wiser next time around.

If we want to live in the past like the vile that’s all we will ever talk about the past

 

[WV10Wolf]

I sincerely hope they both stay up and I then hope they both sue the prem for the absolute bull**** they are spouting about rules when multiple clubs have 'cheated' to get where they are.

The whole thing makes me sick. The prem is a joke.

The ones that should be taking legal action against the PL is us and any club in that’s had to take an axe to their squad in order to comply with FFP.

The PL is a democracy, the clubs set the rules which all the 20 clubs play by. You might not like FFP, I don’t particularly care much for it, but the rules are the rules. We would all love to spend what we want (though I think FFP is convenient for Jeff).

Everton should not be getting such a lenient penalty when we have had to lose Neves, Collins, Moutinho, Nunes, Raul and Traore to balance the books. That’s 5 nailed on starters, and Traore and we didn’t really replace any of them for fear of a heavy points deductions.

Had we done what Everton had done, even with the points deductions we’d be further up the league table and we’d be going to Wembley.

Imagine if us and Everton were neck and neck going for a European spot and they’d pipped us to it despite cheating for the last two years. We’d be going ape****. Just because they’ve over spent on awful players, doesn’t mean what they did was right.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

The ones that should be taking legal action against the PL is us and any club in that’s had to take an axe to their squad in order to comply with FFP.

The PL is a democracy, the clubs set the rules which all the 20 clubs play by. You might not like FFP, I don’t particularly care much for it, but the rules are the rules. We would all love to spend what we want (though I think FFP is convenient for Jeff).

Everton should not be getting such a lenient penalty when we have had to lose Neves, Collins, Moutinho, Nunes, Raul and Traore to balance the books. That’s 5 nailed on starters, and Traore and we didn’t really replace any of them for fear of a heavy points deductions.

Had we done what Everton had done, even with the points deductions we’d be further up the league table and we’d be going to Wembley.

Imagine if us and Everton were neck and neck going for a European spot and they’d pipped us to it despite cheating for the last two years. We’d be going ape****. Just because they’ve over spent on awful players, doesn’t mean what they did was right.

Those player were all on their way out regardless. You honestly think we would have sold all of them two seasons earlier? Don't be daft. It is a complete myth we had to cull starters last summer, we sold nobody who we or they intended to be here the following season other than perhaps Collins.

 

[RosehillWolf]

Sheffield United will start on -2 in the EFL

 

[Skrilla]

New “squad cost ratio rules” in line with UEFA to replace FFP/PSR just got unanimously voted in. Allows you to spend a percentage of your turnover, UEFA’s number is 70% but I’ve seen 85% banded about for the Premier League. Apparently that will start in 2025-26, with next season being an “adjustment period”.

Not sure this actually helps anything to be honest. The gulf between the big six and the rest of the league just got bigger, and I assume they are still restricting clubs to “fair value” sponsorship deals, to prevent anyone trying to compete financially.

 

[Rabid Wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1778432852431921218

So not following UEFA then.

 

[WV10Wolf]

Those player were all on their way out regardless. You honestly think we would have sold all of them two seasons earlier? Don't be daft. It is a complete myth we had to cull starters last summer, we sold nobody who we or they intended to be here the following season other than perhaps Collins.

J Lo said the the goal posts had changed with regards to our ability to spend money. Literally everyone associated with the club (not just club employees) have said FFP as meant our hands are tied.

Fosun have broke our transfer record more seasons than they’ve not so the evidence is there to support the argument that’s they invest in the squad. It’s almost as if there is some kind of rule in place regulating how much clubs can and can’t spend that’s based on their finances.

So these players were always going to leave were they? Then who have we signed to replace them? We must have had an income of £100 million+ for Neves/Nunes/Collins.The owners would not purposely weaken then squad and put the value of their asset at risk. why didn’t we replace them?

 

[Superted]

I think the squad cost rules have some merit, but if we're truly looking for sustainability then why do we allow losses at all, never mind £35M per year on average?

I think the squad cost allowance should be "up to" 85% of turnover provided that the club doesn't make a loss. If it does, then the next season their squad cost allowance is reduced by whatever percentage of turnover they lost.

So if they spent 85% of turnover on their squad but made losses equivalent to 5% of turnover (without a reasonably justifiable excuse) then the next year they only have an allowance of 80%. This would maintain spending on infrastructure, women's football, academies etc. but you can't spend on the sqaud at the expense of the general day-to-day viability of the club.

There should be some mechanism for owners to provide funds within reason but this should be gifts (taxed appropriately although not very efficient) or equity investment, not loans. Loans would be allowed for infrastructure investment puposes, not just cash injections that sit on the balance sheet for years until they're either written off or the owner sells up and calls them in.