Everton, surely a points deduction?

[SteveBullsKnee]

Spurs with 86 million loses for the year

Anyone wanna bet they never ever get a deduction at some stage in the future.

Interesting that Levy has just paid himself a £3 million bonus this year and a 15% wage rise!

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

You're dreaming if you think they'll have the power to make any real change

This sort of stuff wouldn't go on with the PL I'm sure. Regulators are definitely not there just to give a veneer of respectability to companies who have a legal obligation to maximise profits.

Ofwat accused of cover-up over dinners with water companies

Calls for inquiry after regulator failed to declare hospitality with those it holds to account over sewage spills

www.theguardian.com

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

So as soon as the regulations actually show their teeth and actually do something the clubs are trying to squirm out of them. Shows that they are actually working lol.
A financial penalty for clubs where finances are of no consequence seems fair

Well if the financial punishment is punitive enough they will work
By punitive i mean in the millions not a few hundred thousand
Something along the lines of whatever the amount over is the fine delivered

 

[Oliwolf44]

Well if the financial punishment is punitive enough they will work
By punitive i mean in the millions not a few hundred thousand
Something along the lines of whatever the amount over is the fine delivered

are you joking lol. would have to be significant to even register for Newcastle who are owned by PIF who deal in billions let alone millions.
a couple of mil is peanuts.
they will just factor the fines into their spending.
What is the cost of rising to be one of the elite clubs on the planet like man city have done. make them fines back in a year

 

[Sussex Wolf]

You're dreaming if you think they'll have the power to make any real change

I’m not dreaming, nor am I naive. If the regulator is given the tools and scope, then it can make real change. If it’s a regulator without teeth, and in name only, then it will do sweet fa. That was my earlier point about regulators in general. Some are really effective, some are really crap, but regulations and regulators per se is not the a bad thing.

 

[brianm]

are you joking lol. would have to be significant to even register for Newcastle who are owned by PIF who deal in billions let alone millions.
a couple of mil is peanuts.
they will just factor the fines into their spending.
What is the cost of rising to be one of the elite clubs on the planet like man city have done. make them fines back in a year

Especially when the whole point is to normalize ME ownership in England and the part of the world that loves the premiership.

There is no number that would matter in the slightest in that context. Might as well make it a billion quid a year and pump the money into levelling up, imo. Make it ten billion. When would they flinch? Money isn't real there.

 

[theweave]

I’m not dreaming, nor am I naive. If the regulator is given the tools and scope, then it can make real change. If it’s a regulator without teeth, and in name only, then it will do sweet fa. That was my earlier point about regulators in general. Some are really effective, some are really crap, but regulations and regulators per se is not the a bad thing.

The more money involved, the weaker the regulators are and the premier league makes far too much money to let regulators make any real change

 

[JadeWolf]

The only issue with an independent regulator is that I worry how long they’ll be able to be properly independent.

 

[Oldskooldayz]

If the fine is 100% of overspend then it's difficult to argue against really, anything less then it's just pandering

 

[moseleyite]

Interesting that Levy has just paid himself a £3 million bonus this year and a 15% wage rise!

But not altogether surprising

 

[Skrilla]

Of course the PL can remove FSP in England but then English clubs qualifying for Europe will get absolutely hammered by UEFA who have been busy strengthening their own FSP.

Spending £1Bn then being barred from the CL and the associated £££s looks rather less appealing.....

Very true, hadn't thought about the UEFA rules, unless they're also changing!

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

But not altogether surprising

Banked himself £6 million this year at the same time he’s announced they’re scrapping OAP season ticket discounts. He’s got some brass balls!!

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Of course the PL can remove FSP in England but then English clubs qualifying for Europe will get absolutely hammered by UEFA who have been busy strengthening their own FSP.

Spending £1Bn then being barred from the CL and the associated £££s looks rather less appealing.....

Yea, but I think the UEFA rules are still just going to involve fines. If Newcastle spend 150% of their income for a season, they might get fined another 50% of their income. They'll still be fine, the PIF will just pay it out of petty cash, and once they've got to the top table they can be like City and post big profits.

 

[wolfslair]

Banked himself £6 million this year at the same time he’s announced they’re scrapping OAP season ticket discounts. He’s got some brass balls!!

Also a crazy micro manager!

The amount of transfer deals he has ballsed up by getting involved last minute!!!

They have lost some top quality players at the 11th hour to rivals because of it, when the deal was in the bag before he stepped in and went against the agreed terms they had with the selling club and in a few cases the salary for the player before his involvement.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Also a crazy micro manager!

The amount of transfer deals he has ballsed up by getting involved last minute!!!

They have lost some top quality players at the 11th hour to rivals because of it, when the deal was in the bag before he stepped in and went against the agreed terms they had with the selling club and in a few cases the salary for the player before his involvement.

Oh that is one impressive list we’ve missed out on

 

[Rabid Wolf]

Also a crazy micro manager!

The amount of transfer deals he has ballsed up by getting involved last minute!!!

They have lost some top quality players at the 11th hour to rivals because of it, when the deal was in the bag before he stepped in and went against the agreed terms they had with the selling club and in a few cases the salary for the player before his involvement.

On the plus side he gave us £15m for Doc.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

The more money involved, the weaker the regulators are and the premier league makes far too much money to let regulators make any real change

It’s not down to the amount of money involved, it’s down to the strength of the regulator’s powers and the regulations they are there to enforce. If the government gives them few powers and weakly defined regulations, then they will do little of value. Unfortunately lots of people distrust the government and regulation in general, and if that’s reflected in the football regulators powers, then they will achieve nothing.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

are you joking lol. would have to be significant to even register for Newcastle who are owned by PIF who deal in billions let alone millions.
a couple of mil is peanuts.
they will just factor the fines into their spending.
What is the cost of rising to be one of the elite clubs on the planet like man city have done. make them fines back in a year

A lot of clubs are breaking the limit by £50 mil plus if you think a fine in that region wont hurt most clubs then your crazy
I agree the top clubs could deal with monetary fines but not on a consistent basis
Especially if the fines have to be paid in full at point of delivery

 

[Sussex Wolf]

A lot of clubs are breaking the limit by £50 mil plus if you think a fine in that region wont hurt most clubs then your crazy
I agree the top clubs could deal with monetary fines but not on a consistent basis
Especially if the fines have to be paid in full at point of delivery

For teams owned by sovereign wealth funds, that level of fine is not even peanuts. It’s like buying another squad player, so of course they will pay it and carry on.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

It’s not down to the amount of money involved, it’s down to the strength of the regulator’s powers and the regulations they are there to enforce. If the government gives them few powers and weakly defined regulations, then they will do little of value. Unfortunately lots of people distrust the government and regulation in general, and if that’s reflected in the football regulators powers, then they will achieve nothing.

Yes, but given that the government seems incapable of (or unwilling to) providing effective regulation in services we all rely on, where it created monopolies, it hardly seems likely they'll suddenly decide to impose a highly effective regulator to deal with what is (in some ways at least) a competitive industry.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Interesting that Levy has just paid himself a £3 million bonus this year and a 15% wage rise!

This one confuses me (yes I know that’s easily done), but how can he award himself a bonus and a pay rise. Isn’t he accountable to shareholders or a board of directors?

 

[Boss Hogg]

Soft cap - that was my exact idea to redistribute taxes to the clubs that don’t breach a taxline, hopefully I’ll be due a cheque in the mail if it passes…

Still not sure it will work though. Removing FFP removes the safety blanket, what happens when the Oil Barons are bored of Newcastle after spending billions with zero restrictions leaving them with crippling debts?

It allows those who want to spend to spend, while the clubs who play fair receive a significant tax from each of the clubs that breach it.

Newcastle spend £1 billion with a 50% tax rate on anything over £100 million, £450 million split between the teams that don’t go above the tax line (let’s say 10 clubs), that would mean £45m each.

Might seem like a drop in the ocean, but when you factor in the “big six” doing similar, it would soon add up. Even so, if it gave clubs that played fair an extra £200m to spend it’s still nothing compared to what the top clubs will be spending.

Realistically though what does releasing the shackles actually do for the league. The big six will continue spending, and maybe a flurry of clubs will also spend exorbitant amounts to try to compete - namely Newcastle.

Does it actually benefit us in the long run? If anything it creates a less competitive league as the “big six” becomes however many other clubs want to spend billions to try to compete until their owners get bored and cut the cord.

Keep FFP but make it less restrictive, allow clubs to spend 100% of what they earn rather than 70%. It doesn’t solve the problem of the “big six” still having significantly more room to spend, but I’m not convinced a free-for-all would be any better to be honest.

I like the idea @Skrilla. As @WickedWolfie said there would need to be an alignment with UEFA rules, and one other restriction I would impose is that spending over the cap is not only ‘taxed’ but must be funded by equity, not debt. Then, if things go pop, which they will at some point, only the owner gets burnt and not the local tradesmen/suppliers who always lose out in football administrations at the expense of football creditors.

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

This one confuses me (yes I know that’s easily done), but how can he award himself a bonus and a pay rise. Isn’t he accountable to shareholders or a board of directors?

Depends what the losses are for. They are probably still paying off their new stadium so these losses are probably budgeted for in a long term plan.

Levi is also responsible for increasing revenue on a match day from £1m to £6m per game since moving into the new stadium so the bonus and pay rise he has given himself could of been pre agreed on the basis he achieved this goal

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

This one confuses me (yes I know that’s easily done), but how can he award himself a bonus and a pay rise. Isn’t he accountable to shareholders or a board of directors?

Well you’d think so yeah! Though he is a shareholder albeit not a majority one.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Well you’d think so yeah! Though he is a shareholder albeit not a majority one.

Mostly owned by him and his mate Joe Lewis though isn't it, so basically they aren't accountable to anyone but each other?

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Mostly owned by him and his mate Joe Lewis though isn't it, so basically they aren't accountable to anyone but each other?

So he gives himself a bonus and a pay rise out of his own money….! It doesn’t make much sense to me.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

So he gives himself a bonus and a pay rise out of his own money….! It doesn’t make much sense to me.

It's actual money in his pocket rather than tied up in as asset though I guess? I mean theoretically he owns something like 30% of a £3b club, but that doesn't help when it's his round at the bar.

Just to correct my earlier post as he just randomly appeared on the news being sentenced for insider trading(!) apparently Joe Lewis's ownership is now in an independent trust.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Everton, Leicester and Forest had the highest wages to turnover ratio

The accounts of Premier League clubs for the 2022-23 season have been published and they do well to explain the current situation that Leicester, Nottingham Forest and Everton find themselves in.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Apologies for the source but really self-explanatory about how those three clubs ended up in the mire....

 

[Snorbans Wolf]

Everton, Leicester and Forest had the highest wages to turnover ratio

The accounts of Premier League clubs for the 2022-23 season have been published and they do well to explain the current situation that Leicester, Nottingham Forest and Everton find themselves in.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Apologies for the source but really self-explanatory about how those three clubs ended up in the mire....

It may be in the timeframes that my confusion arises, but I’ve seen similar tables that say we are in the bottom five or so for wages, so is this telling us that our turnover is really really low compared to other teams?

 

[The Wolf In The North]

It's actual money in his pocket rather than tied up in as asset though I guess? I mean theoretically he owns something like 30% of a £3b club, but that doesn't help when it's his round at the bar.

You know full well that Levy is the bloke who quietly nips outside for a smoke when it's his round at the bar.

 

[SuperGran]

You know full well that Levy is the bloke who quietly nips outside for a smoke when it's his round at the bar.

Keeps a pack with just one in so as not to share

 

[Southdownswolf]

UEFA will have to toe the line with the clubs, or else we will be back to looking at a European Super League which they have no control over.

 

[JohnB]

Doesn’t matter how much is spent only one side wins the league each season. Whether unlimited funds or FFP/son of FFP - the approach will still massively favour the richer/higher income clubs.

It is what it is.

We have to be lucky (like Leicester were for a couple of seasons and Brighton now) and pick some talent who excel with us or we can sell on.

Still would like to see a Cup win again after 1980 in my remaining lifetime. Have no expectation of winning league (or unless a fluke getting into CL).

Enjoyed Nuno and would be happy to get close to repeating that.

 

[Rubberball]

It may be in the timeframes that my confusion arises, but I’ve seen similar tables that say we are in the bottom five or so for wages, so is this telling us that our turnover is really really low compared to other teams?

It looks about right.

The total wage bill at the club for 22/23 was up to £123.8m from £104.5m

We had 42 pros on the books (Fraser, Moulden and other first year pros included). If we generously say the non-playing staff cost the club £24m per year in wages and on-costs that means the average wage at the club for a player would be £45.5k per week which would put us in the bottom 5 according to a variety of articles on the web.

Now that's a crude way of working it out but would explain a fair bit.

I wouldn't be surprised if we were in the bottom 3 this season for wage bill.

 

[WickedWolfie]

It may be in the timeframes that my confusion arises, but I’ve seen similar tables that say we are in the bottom five or so for wages, so is this telling us that our turnover is really really low compared to other teams?

That is exactly what it is telling us. Other articles showing that have been published on here before.

 

[WickedWolfie]

UEFA will have to toe the line with the clubs, or else we will be back to looking at a European Super League which they have no control over.

Except football is a worldwide business.

The Courts in Europe have no legal sway outside that continent. I'm sure that organised consumer boycotts worldwide for any commercial partners, other fan backlash, not to mention international bans for Brazilians, Argentinians etc etc would have many players questioning whether they want any part of that....

If FIFA really wanted to ram that message home it could chose to move its headquarters out of Europe....

Oh, given that HMG has explicitly stated that the English football regulator will have explicit powers to block English clubs joining, l wish any such clubs good luck in challenging UK primary legislation in the UK (technically England and Wales) Courts.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

UEFA will have to toe the line with the clubs, or else we will be back to looking at a European Super League which they have no control over.

True, but the Super League clubs didn't just want the Super league. They wanted it as a supplementary income on top of the Premier League and Champions League. If UEFA tell them that any participant in the Super League will be immediately expelled from UEFA and the Premier League follow suit then the clubs will have nowhere to go. Yes, the Premier League relies on the 'big 6' to retain it's attractiveness and so does the Champions League. But that works both ways. How long will the clubs remain the elite with only what is essentially a series of exhibition games to sell?

 

[GoldenHorseshoe]

You know full well that Levy is the bloke who quietly nips outside for a smoke when it's his round at the bar.

Holds the door open so everyone goes past him to the bar. You know the type.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Holds the door open so everyone goes past him to the bar. You know the type.

Shucks, rumbled lol....

 

[lets all have a disco]

Villa fans at work reckon they will ignore any problems with FFP looming with there accounts for this season....not sell anybody by the end of June and just take the points deduction next year....why put yourself at a disadvantage when all the rules seem to be changing.....just take the 4-6 points......

To be fair with the current situation it is one way of looking at it....