Ipad and late defeats....

[Hot Fuss]

It's an interesting point! The inability to react to events on the pitch is what Lage consistently demonstrated and, to be fair to the odious ****, Lopetegui did quite well at.

However, another way to consider it is to think about how players respond to events in a game. O Neill constantly talks about how he gets the side to set up against specific opponents and how he wants players to stay close to the game plan. And he's done very well with this, especially against sides that play on the front foot. However, we still seem to be lacking against sides set up to defend and counter attack. This is when players have to make decisions on the hoof, according to what is happening at the time.

Howe set up Newcastle against us, at their home, to play on the counter, and enabled a win, he out coached O Neill! That happens, and it's a learning process.

I'm not having a go at O Neill, by the way, I think he's done well, with always a lot of room for improvement as with us all. And to be fair he's shown himself mature and humble enough to probably accept that. But it's a fine line between organising and over coaching. Players have to react to the situation on the pitch at the actual time, and we don't seem to be able to do that with exceptions such as Dawson. This is what has cost us against Coventry and, previously, ManUtd.

We reacted well to a very difficult change of circumstances in play v Fulham just a week earlier.

It’s football.

 

[Hot Fuss]

I remember the good old days before iPads when no one ever scored a late winner.

Assume Liverpool fans will be glad Klopps leaving now after there game on Sunday.

 

[yateleywolf]

Maybe he needs more experience on the bench alongside him to help him at critical moments. Too many late goals going in.

 

[Timberwolf]

It's all technologies fault we lost! Not the fact we had over £100m in forwards injured and a 19 year old up front.

How on earth would the game have turned out differently without the ipad? They scored 2 goals in the last few minutes of extra time in the game. Nothing you can do from the sidelines is going to rectify that!

This embarrasingly is one of the best examples of Neo Luddism you're ever going to see!

I think that last few minutes was where GON had to switch the iPad off and switch it back on again. Mine also freezes when I watch porn….!

 

[VancouverWolf]

Ahhhh………IPADGATE 2……The Return.

Just when you thought it was safe to forget about it…………(cue Jaws soundtrack).

 

[wolvesjoe]

I think in the original discussion I made the point that over-reliance on the technology would rob the
coach of certain decision-making abilities.

This is how it plays out in real life.

 

[bigbluewolf]

I think we lost because we couldn't defend a lead for 10 minutes against a team who had played very well and caused us lots of problems. If it wasn't for Sa making some good saves and Coventry squandering chances, we would have lost the game by a bigger margin.

 

[bod101]

as someone who isn't so quick to call our manger the second coming of god what i am impressed by is the use of the ipad and other technology and hope to see more of it, for this i applaud GON.

 

[Banks's Mild]

I think in the original discussion I made the point that over-reliance on the technology would rob the
coach of certain decision-making abilities.

This is how it plays out in real life.

I have thought for a while that this is the case and watching from the stands/sidelines you can tell as much if not more about the game and players than studying technology for all the info. Wether that is why we lost on Saturday is another issue and I do tend to think if we had a proper captain and leader in the heart of our defence we would have seen the game out.
This topic reminds me of when I worked in motor racing for a few years and during 1 race the car came past the pits and an older mechanic said there is something wrong as it doesn't sound right to which all the computer geeks said no everything is fine according to all our screens. Needless to say 1/2 a lap and a knackered engine later they announce something is now wrong but far to late to save a massively expensive rebuild.

 

[wolvesjoe]

I think we lost because we couldn't defend a lead for 10 minutes against a team who had played very well and caused us lots of problems. If it wasn't for Sa making some good saves and Coventry squandering chances, we would have lost the game by a bigger margin.

I agree that Sa kept us in the game when we were taking huge risks in order to get us back into the game.

I was the paralysis that affected Oneil when we were ahead that I am addressing.

 

[lobodelsur]

Its a fairly straightforward argument to grasp.

In January 1967 we were trailing 2-0 in the 3rd round of the Cup away at Oldham Athletic but were able to come back with 2 goals in the last minute (Bailey, Thompson) because the Oldham manager was checking his ipad ....oh, wait...

 

[Thank you Sir Jack]

In January 1967 we were trailing 2-0 in the 3rd round of the Cup away at Oldham Athletic but were able to come back with 2 goals in the last minute (Bailey, Thompson) because the Oldham manager was checking his ipad ....oh, wait...

They used carrier pigeons back then.

 

[Wolowolf6]

Can the iPad play centre forward?

It can but does tend to switch off when tired.

 

[Golden Arrow]

We lost due to human error(s) and no amount of analogue or digital analogies will compensate for that. It’s football played by humans who are prone to mistakes just get over it pal. It will happen again so unless you want to remove the human element from the game and have the games played by computerised inputs you better get used to mistakes happening.

Yes, it most certainly will happen again that's for sure, but please lord let the balls up or two take place on 12 or 49 minutes next time so there is some time to address things.
Watford now Coventry is turning me into a quivering wreck and will have me reaching for the bottle next time should we find ourselves in similar circumstances.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Off topic, the title of this thread sounds like an indie rock album name.

 

[Mutchy]

They used carrier pigeons back then.

So does wolvesjoe. Makes an awful mess here at MM Towers when he gets on a roll.

 

[OLDGOLD]

You're in denial. Let's spell it out:

Team goes all-out attack to try and salvage game.

High risk strategy works, partly through Sam's stream of excellent saves.

To see out the game requires radical shift in tactics and substitutions.

Coach's decision-making processes are now delayed due to reliance n input from iPad and
Digital coach who has to interpret data .

Paralysis ensues and game is lost as Coventry coach quickly makes appropriate changes, disencumbered by digital paraphernalia.

Professional premier league players should not need input from the sidelines whether via manager, ipad, the spirit world or whichever deity you prefer to know what they should do to defend a lead for 5 minutes. It had nothing to do with a change in tactics and all to do with poor defending

 

[jrpb-3]

funny but when I was watching the game I didn't see any of the players with ipads,
(maybe that was the problem, GON was trying to send them messages from his ipad, but they were unable to receive them)

They were the ones who defended poorly and let in the 2 late goals
The in match change of tactics players/formation was what got us back into the game from 1 down to 2-1 up.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Clip Board Connor now IPad ONiel dont know what the worlds coming too
Can we not survive without Tech?
Sorry ive got to go my Ring Doorbell is going off and i need to charge my phone

 

[VancouverWolf]

Its a fairly straightforward argument to grasp.

Wolvesjoe,
If we are not grasping the argument then the fault is with you. You are not offering any solid data to help us consider your idea. You can’t expect us to take this seriously if all you say are uninformed guesses.

You are asserting something without any reasonable proof. You are not a silly man but, to some on here, your idea seems silly…..not you , just your idea.

You said in post #1 …”the inevitable outcome of an over-Thereliance on digital technology”…….you don’t know that.

Again from #1…..
“Oneil left stranded in the moment, unable to go through the laborious process of consulting the screen and his digital assitant.
He flounders, fails to act and the rest is history. “……..all guesswork., i.e. fiction.

From #7….”Coach's decision-making processes are now delayed……..” you don’t know that.

From #33….”But Oneil froze like the proverbial rabbit.”…….froze?…..again fiction.

also from #33…..”A classic response when not used to making quick decisions without digital input.”….any proof, even tenuous?……any at all?
from #46….”This is how it plays out in real life.”……really? Are you guessing again?

from #50…”I was the paralysis that affected Oneil …..”…..paralysis? ….don’t think so.

As Hitchens said……..” something that is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence”.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Maybe it is me who is stupid, but I can’t quite understand what this is about. Is it being said that Wolves lost because of technology (or the lack of it?).

I thought the reason we lost is because Coventry City scored more goals than Wolves!

 

[Pagey]

Oh for goodness sake. We didn't lose because of a ****ing ipad.

Depends, the signal inside Molineux is pretty crap to be honest.

 

[steve vena]

We saw on Saturday the inevitable outcome of an over-reliance on digital technology in real time in making rapid tactical decisions.

Old school Robins outsmarts new kid on the block, because he is tuned in to what is actually happening on the pitch.

Oneil left stranded in the moment, unable to go through the laborious process of consulting the screen and his digital assitant.
He flounders, fails to act and the rest is history.

A similar process just occurred in the ManU game, where again Oneil failed to respond quickly enough to a real time shift in tactical
requirements.

The old maxim holds good: a digital skill always involves the loss or weakening of the analogue skill.

It's the Twilight Zone that did it.

 

[Minimalist]

Maybe it is me who is stupid, but I can’t quite understand what this is about. Is it being said that Wolves lost because of technology (or the lack of it?).

I thought the reason we lost is because Coventry City scored more goals than Wolves!

I don’t agree with the opening post.

However people are largely misconstruing his point. Which I believe is that time is being wasted reviewing things on the iPad rather than just watching with his eyes and being quicker to make changes.

 

[jrpb-3]

I agree that Sa kept us in the game when we were taking huge risks in order to get us back into the game.

I was the paralysis that affected Oneil when we were ahead that I am addressing.

just rewatched the footage on ITV from about 85 mins just before we go 2-1 up to then end. The managers obviously aren't in view all the time, but both can be seen 9 or ten times when that part of the pitch is in view or the shot cuts to the dugout a few times, In each one robbins is stood motionless in his technical area, apart from when they make a final 2 substitutions. O'Neil can be seen in the technical area either stood watching, or waving and shouting instructions, or talking to his assistant, in none of them is he looking at an ipad (obviously he's not in shot all the time so has a fair bit of time he could have looked at one at some point, but I saw no evidence of paralysis or delay due to looking at an ipad, or from not,being able to use it and therefore not making a decision, in several of the shots he is animated on the touchline shouting instructions

What am I missing to have not seen this glaring paralysis that cost us the game ?

 

[SevernWolf]

just rewatched the footage on ITV from about 85 mins just before we go 2-1 up to then end. The managers obviously aren't in view all the time, but both can be seen 9 or ten times when that part of the pitch is in view or the shot cuts to the dugout a few times, In each one robbins is stood motionless in his technical area, apart from when they make a final 2 substitutions. O'Neil can be seen in the technical area either stood watching, or waving and shouting instructions, or talking to his assistant, in none of them is he looking at an ipad (obviously he's not in shot all the time so has a fair bit of time he could have looked at one at some point, but I saw no evidence of paralysis or delay due to looking at an ipad, or from not,being able to use it and therefore not making a decision, in several of the shots he is animated on the touchline shouting instructions

What am I missing to have not seen this glaring paralysis that cost us the game ?

Let's not let facts get in the way of the argument. For all you know, the iPad could have been giving Gary secret instructions through an earpiece.

 

[Contrarian]

just rewatched the footage on ITV from about 85 mins just before we go 2-1 up to then end. The managers obviously aren't in view all the time, but both can be seen 9 or ten times when that part of the pitch is in view or the shot cuts to the dugout a few times, In each one robbins is stood motionless in his technical area, apart from when they make a final 2 substitutions. O'Neil can be seen in the technical area either stood watching, or waving and shouting instructions, or talking to his assistant, in none of them is he looking at an ipad (obviously he's not in shot all the time so has a fair bit of time he could have looked at one at some point, but I saw no evidence of paralysis or delay due to looking at an ipad, or from not,being able to use it and therefore not making a decision, in several of the shots he is animated on the touchline shouting instructions

What am I missing to have not seen this glaring paralysis that cost us the game ?

Ah, that's the problem. Is wasn't lack of instructions, it was too many instructions. Players got confused. Didn't know whether to sit back, high press, low block, deep press because GON was shouting all of that. So they did them all at once and ended up in a sitting high press block, otherwise known as the headless chicken.

The confusion became total, with yet another formation note brought on by a sub and the numbers didn't add up to 10. Easily done. Just sad that it cost us a cup semi final.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

just rewatched the footage on ITV from about 85 mins just before we go 2-1 up to then end. The managers obviously aren't in view all the time, but both can be seen 9 or ten times when that part of the pitch is in view or the shot cuts to the dugout a few times, In each one robbins is stood motionless in his technical area, apart from when they make a final 2 substitutions. O'Neil can be seen in the technical area either stood watching, or waving and shouting instructions, or talking to his assistant, in none of them is he looking at an ipad (obviously he's not in shot all the time so has a fair bit of time he could have looked at one at some point, but I saw no evidence of paralysis or delay due to looking at an ipad, or from not,being able to use it and therefore not making a decision, in several of the shots he is animated on the touchline shouting instructions

What am I missing to have not seen this glaring paralysis that cost us the game ?

I did notice one point late on when Cutler was out on the technical area for a while and then Derry came out. O'Neil certainly spend a lot if time going fairly mental on the tough line too though - and actually on the pitch a couple of times!

I would be interested to know what anyone was looking at the iPad for in the last 10 minutes?

 

[The Wolf In The North]

Am I the only person who reads these angry iPad posts in Roy Keane's voice?

 

[Timberwolf]

I think in the original discussion I made the point that over-reliance on the technology would rob the
coach of certain decision-making abilities.

This is how it plays out in real life.

Erm, 10th in the Premier League and an FA Cup quarter final would tell you that the technology he’s using is helping him do something right.

 

[Thank you Sir Jack]

Am I the only person who reads these angry iPad posts in Roy Keane's voice?

I imagine Michael Palin with knotted hanky on head from Monty Python.

 

[Golden Arrow]

Professional premier league players should not need input from the sidelines whether via manager, ipad, the spirit world or whichever deity you prefer to know what they should do to defend a lead for 5 minutes. It had nothing to do with a change in tactics and all to do with poor defending

But maybe A.I. is taking over and the use of Smart technology is the first step in time which will culminate with "Shouty man" (bless him) announcing a robotic first XI.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

But maybe A.I. is taking over and the use of Smart technology is the first step in time which will culminate with "Shouty man" (bless him) announcing a robotic first XI.

Breaking: Skynet announced as new FA Chairman.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Depends, the signal inside Molineux is pretty crap to be honest.

Lol…..nearly spit out my lunch …….hahaha

 

[Andywolf74]

I think GON’s incredible work ethic and attention to detail can on occasion lead to him overthinking it and subsequently not convey what he wants them to do effectively.
He’s not a bad company with the above trait however, as I think Pep sometimes does the same.

 

[Pagey]

Lol…..nearly spit out my lunch …….hahaha

Hope you was on an ipad or phone, easier to wipe than a keyboard.

 

[wolvesjoe]

I don’t agree øwith the opening post.

However people are largely misconstruing his point. Which I believe is that time is being wasted reviewing things on the iPad rather than just watching with his eyes and being quicker to make changes.

Nicely put

 

[sedgwolf1980]

I do wonder about the last few minutes v Cov. In the 5th round v Brighton, we played out the last fifteen minutes superbly, kicking it against Brighton legs to get throw ins, passing it around to waste time, taking it into the corner, etc. A master class in time-wasting. But we seemed to have a collective brain fart against Cov once we got into the lead.

I have been non stop thinking about it since Saturday. It was the most mental 10 mins football since we collapsed late on versus the **** in the 1-5.

Some of our decisions were just mental. I’m actually still struggling to comprehend how it played out. That 2nd goal is one of the worst goals I have ever, ever seen a Wolves side concede. There are at least 6 individual errors even after Lemina gave it away, it’s incredible really.

 

[Supadavewolf]

Sorry, but after all this talk about iPads the GP's put me on.....

(wait for it, wait for it).....

tablets.

Here all week

 

[BlahBlah]

I think in the original discussion I made the point that over-reliance on the technology would rob the
coach of certain decision-making abilities.

This is how it plays out in real life.

Easily solved. They just need to program in machine learning and then the iPad will eventually make the decision itself, far more reliable than human decision-making which is invariably flawed, confused, and takes too long.
The Ipad will simply instruct "LAUNCH BALL - ROW Z"