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January 2024 transfer window thread.

Mile End Wanderer

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I’ve got no agenda, it just read that you were discussing Scottish football which is probably in its lowest ever ebb.

I don’t think desire has too much of an impact to be honest. The issue is the gap to the premier league has never been bigger. You regularly see players come up even from the championship who look fantastic in that league and absolutely way off in the premier league, asking players from lower in that pyramid to perform is almost monumental. I get it’s a low risk strategy but I’d probably say it’s not a worthwhile one either.

Using Vardy and Kightly as examples doesn’t work for me. One made his debut a decade ago and the other nearly two decades ago so the hit rate isn’t exactly high.
Because big clubs want fancy names from European clubs. If nobody takes risks on lower league players. Naturally there will be small examples like Vardy. Luton will be a miracle if they stay up but the business model they have. Set them up for years to come. Remarkable

Good luck to Jonny. Maybe next week we bring someone in
 

Loojay

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We do take punts on lower league players though. Our captain was signed from non league. We've just signed Holman. It literally is the strategy, as stated by Hobbs

Speaking of which we missed out on that Vale player going to Leicester, he is a find
 

SteveBullsKnee

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Because big clubs want fancy names from European clubs. If nobody takes risks on lower league players. Naturally there will be small examples like Vardy. Luton will be a miracle if they stay up but the business model they have. Set them up for years to come. Remarkable

Good luck to Jonny. Maybe next week we bring someone in
I think that first paragraph is short sighted to be honest. All clubs even Man City don’t want to spend unnecessary money. Clubs don’t sign lower league players because they know the level isn’t great. Championship to premier league is a jump too far for lots of players, but further down its even moreso. If you look at our recruitment of Joao Gomes, he came from a foreign league that isn’t much of a standard but it’s still way way above league one. The bottom two professional leagues it’s not even about players ability, it’s about how the clubs play (with off exceptions) most of them play a style not seen in 20 plus years in the premier, it’s all long ball hit and hope, those players can’t cope with how the premier league is played
 

WolfLing

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Because big clubs want fancy names from European clubs. If nobody takes risks on lower league players. Naturally there will be small examples like Vardy. Luton will be a miracle if they stay up but the business model they have. Set them up for years to come. Remarkable

It's not necessarily about fancy names from European clubs. Big clubs want professional, athletic, technically gifted players.

Very few English players with the right mix of technical and mental attributes slip through the net nowadays. A lot of the time, the reason players are playing in the lower leagues is because one or more aspects of their game wasn't deemed good enough to already be at the academy of a Premier League club.

Clubs like us tend to look up rather than down when recruiting talent. Players who didn't make the grade at a bigger club for a variety of reasons. Joe Hodge is a good example. Very highly rated as a youngster, with 2 years of back issues leading to his release by Man City.

Even if you look at a lot of players that do make the grade coming up from the Championship or lower, they have been through an elite academy at some stage of their youth career, before making their name playing regularly for a lower league side.

A big thing was made in the summer of Pelly Ruddock Mpanzu playing for Luton from Conference all the way through to the Premier League, but he'd been at West Ham for 3 years before signing permanently for Luton.
 

Skrilla

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I’ve got no agenda, it just read that you were discussing Scottish football which is probably in its lowest ever ebb.

I don’t think desire has too much of an impact to be honest. The issue is the gap to the premier league has never been bigger. You regularly see players come up even from the championship who look fantastic in that league and absolutely way off in the premier league, asking players from lower in that pyramid to perform is almost monumental. I get it’s a low risk strategy but I’d probably say it’s not a worthwhile one either.

Using Vardy and Kightly as examples doesn’t work for me. One made his debut a decade ago and the other nearly two decades ago so the hit rate isn’t exactly high.
The cream of the crop still tends to rise to the top. Even last year - Viktor Gyokeres, Joao Pedro, Alex Scott. The year before that Mitrovic and Solanke. When you look at a list of the top scorers in the PL - a good number of them had success in the Championship - Watkins, Wood, Mbuemo.

This year, you've got talent like Jack Clarke, Jon Rowe, Crysensio Summerville, Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall. I'd put good money on them stepping up with relative ease.

However, the price of a top Championship player versus what you'd pay for the equivalent abroad, isn't comparable. All of those players would never be sold for a fee less than £20m.
 

SteveBullsKnee

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The cream of the crop still tends to rise to the top. Even last year - Viktor Gyokeres, Joao Pedro, Alex Scott. The year before that Mitrovic and Solanke. When you look at a list of the top scorers in the PL - a good number of them had success in the Championship - Watkins, Wood, Mbuemo.

This year, you've got talent like Jack Clarke, Jon Rowe, Crysensio Summerville, Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall. I'd put good money on them stepping up with relative ease.

However, the price of a top Championship player versus what you'd pay for the equivalent abroad, isn't comparable. All of those players would never be sold for a fee less than £20m.
I agree but also I think MEW was more on about the levels below that. I don’t see a player going from League one or below to the premier league and competing.
 

WolfLing

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This year, you've got talent like Jack Clarke, Jon Rowe, Crysensio Summerville, Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall. I'd put good money on them stepping up with relative ease.

Of course they will step up with ease. Jack Clarke spent 3 years at Spurs, and Rowe, Summerville and Dewsbury-Hall have all played in the PL previously.

To say they are lower league players stepping up probably doesn't tell the full story. They are players who have been shown to have PL quality, who have dropped down a level due to relegation or personal choice to further their careers, getting more game time in the Champ as a result.
 

WISAW

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We do take punts on lower league players though. Our captain was signed from non league. We've just signed Holman. It literally is the strategy, as stated by Hobbs

Speaking of which we missed out on that Vale player going to Leicester, he is a find
Who's that then?
 

Skrilla

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Of course they will step up with ease. Jack Clarke spent 3 years at Spurs, and Rowe, Summerville and Dewsbury-Hall have all played in the PL previously.

To say they are lower league players stepping up probably doesn't tell the full story. They are players who have been shown to have PL quality, who have dropped down a level due to relegation or personal choice to further their careers, getting more game time in the Champ as a result.
Also hope we’re in for them in the summer!
 

Edinburgh Wolf

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Re Scotland, the talent level has most definitely not risen. Take the auld firm out and the rest are littered with players who wouldn’t get in a championship team down here.
Whilst I agree with you on the overall level up here, there are some really good young players who would be worth long term investment. Plenty of younger players have been picked up by bigger clubs over the last 3 or 4 years and are developing well - Hickey, Gilmour, Doak at Liverpool, Ferguson at Bologna, Doig at Sassualo, etc.

St Johnstone have a 16 year old kid playing this season called Fran Franczak. He's a serious talent, with the manager, Craig Levein, comparing him to Aaron Hickey at the same age. Lennon Miller at Motherwell is another real talent, playing regularly in centre midfield at 17.

If Wolves are serious about developing young talent and selling for profit, they'd be mad to not look at the Scottish market.
 

Plovdiv Wolf

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Whilst I agree with you on the overall level up here, there are some really good young players who would be worth long term investment. Plenty of younger players have been picked up by bigger clubs over the last 3 or 4 years and are developing well - Hickey, Gilmour, Doak at Liverpool, Ferguson at Bologna, Doig at Sassualo, etc.

St Johnstone have a 16 year old kid playing this season called Fran Franczak. He's a serious talent, with the manager, Craig Levein, comparing him to Aaron Hickey at the same age. Lennon Miller at Motherwell is another real talent, playing regularly in centre midfield at 17.

If Wolves are serious about developing young talent and selling for profit, they'd be mad to not look at the Scottish market.
We must have people watch them
 

Aurum Lupus

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It's coming down ...I think for 20/25m he might be worth the risk .....I think it safe to say we will be bringing funds in through the summer....he is still young as well....
Agree, but still only if its an option.

GON has shown he can improve players, so give him till the end of the season to see how he gets on. He's certainly got talent in him.
 

Black Country Wanderer

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I personally felt he was poor. Slow in movement and in thought, works hard but the fees being quoted are much too high for the risk IMO.
Yeah i was watching him out of interest
He looks like hes lost a yard of pace,perhaps hes feeling his way back after injury
That said he did a lot of pressing and made a few good runs dragging defenders away for others
He nowhere near his form of 2 seasons ago though so maybe give him a miss for now
 

Thank you Sir Jack

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What have the Scottish ever done for us?
Frank Munro
What? Okay Frank Munro
Willie Carr
Oh yes, Willie Carr
Alex Rae
Agreed
Colin Cameron
Alright, Colin Cameron
Kenny Miller
Jim McCalliog
Andy Gray
Christophe Berra
Kevin McDonald...
Some great players in that list. Cameron, Rae and Frank Munro were top class.
 

lets all have a disco

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Agree, but still only if its an option.

GON has shown he can improve players, so give him till the end of the season to see how he gets on. He's certainly got talent in him.
Yes...and obviously it may have to fall into the right FFP period ....but you pay a bit extra for strikers especially one who is considered home-grown.,....that will be the same in the summer...

Obviously we don't nw the accurate financial commitments but he is the type of forward who we should look at ...Ticks a few boxes ....
 

NothingButNeto

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Interesting snip for the Athletic:

“Another interesting one,” adds Chaudhuri, “is my colleague did some analysis that looked at strikers bought in January in the big five leagues since 2012, and found that 40 per cent of them didn’t even score a goal in the remainder of that season.”

 

Rabid Wolf

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Agree but the flip side of this could be that if Hwang played then so would have Mitoma.
Not so sure as Mitoma has been out with ankle injury since their game against Palace before Xmas. Japan called him up knowing that and hasn't played in Asia Cup yet.
 

lets all have a disco

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I think he goes to West Ham and we get Ings on a pure loan, since Ings was GONs main target.
Where the Ings is O'Neil main target come from???? I haven't read or heard that anywhere...would he say something like that.....Ive seen him referred to as an option by respected journalist....
 

TheRetroChief

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What have the Scottish ever done for us?
Frank Munro
What? Okay Frank Munro
Willie Carr
Oh yes, Willie Carr
Alex Rae
Agreed
Colin Cameron
Alright, Colin Cameron
Kenny Miller
Jim McCalliog
Andy Gray
Christophe Berra
Kevin McDonald...
Jackie McNamara?

Darren Fergus...never mind
 
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lets all have a disco

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Pretty sure it came from Percy, but I may have also heard it from others tbf.
He said was an option..(no more than Che Adams was)..I wouldn't think there wasn't such a thing as main target.... especially if it was relient on west ham bringing someone in....would be naive in the extreme to wait for that ....

I would say we probably have 2/3 main targets....I would think either Etikike or Broja on loan option would be the preferred choice of the club and possibly O'Neil....can we get one if the deal is right for the club....

I wouldn't think Ings on loan isn't the main target at all...a possiblity at best....
 

Hsvwolf

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Where the Ings is O'Neil main target come from???? I haven't read or heard that anywhere...would he say something like that.....Ive seen him referred to as an option by respected journalist....
Cant say I'm keen on Ings ......seems like he's one of those 'Hair today , gone tomorrow ' type
 
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