Today’s Games 2023-2024

WeAreTheWolvesII said:
This is just pure anti-Man United agenda today.

I would say with plenty of confidence that if United had been correctly denied a winner and Coventry won on penalties, VAR would actually be getting praised by many football fans.

The best thing for VAR would be one month without it, and people would get a reminder of how bad things were.

Why do you think so many leagues around the world have it? Do they like spending loads of money?
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The semi-automated offside system that's been used elsewhere and will finally be implemented in the Premier League next season should help but your final question is the main issue. Other leagues and competitions are using it better as we see in the Champions League.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
This is just pure anti-Man United agenda today.

I would say with plenty of confidence that if United had been correctly denied a winner and Coventry won on penalties, VAR would actually be getting praised by many football fans.

The best thing for VAR would be one month without it, and people would get a reminder of how bad things were.

Why do you think so many leagues around the world have it? Do they like spending loads of money?
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Can you honestly say that you believe VAR enhances your enjoyment at a football match?
 
VAR whether you get a decision or on't is completely broken FACT. Too many variables and too much human intervention.

Linos got it right and got it wrong but VAR is way way worse than anything we have seen. They are making a mockery of 'evidence' and implementing their interpretation of fact. It's BS lol

No matter who we watch we sit here saying the same stuff every weekend.
 
I have just watched Monza v Atalanta. It was a decent game, Atalanta were two goals up, but Monza pulled one back a couple of minutes before the end and came very close to equalising, with the ball hitting a post before rolling across the line.

Tomorrow evening is the Milan derby. That should be fun.
 
Mancwolf56 said:
Can you honestly say that you believe VAR enhances your enjoyment at a football match?
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No, it doesn't.

But I don't place great value on that in comparison to fairness. And this does get more decisions right than previously.

Today is the prime example. If Wolves had missed out on an FA Cup final because the opposition scored an offside goal with the last kick, I would be devastated.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
No, it doesn't.

But I don't place great value on that in comparison to fairness. And this does get more decisions right than previously.

Today is the prime example. If Wolves had missed out on an FA Cup final because the opposition scored an offside goal with the last kick, I would be devastated.
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Fair enough but I would imagine you’re in the minority
 
Mancwolf56 said:
Fair enough but I would imagine you’re in the minority
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Yep I am.

That's why I would genuinely like to see no VAR for a month, people would be fuming very quickly. VAR was introduced because fans were not happy at officiating.

I think a lot of it's results based and people wanting it both ways. As I've repeated, if today was reversed I genuinely believe VAR would be getting praise. Ultimately, everyone hates United and this was going to be historic, so people are happy for an offside to be given onside!
 
Mancwolf56 said:
Can you honestly say that you believe VAR enhances your enjoyment at a football match?
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No VAR takes away enjoyment

Surely adding enjoyment would bring more entertainment = more goals. Not less goals

We want the old days of 4-3 and 5-5 results not the odd 1-2 and 2-2 here and there

Bring back indirect free kicks how exciting was they?!
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
Yep I am.

That's why I would genuinely like to see no VAR for a month, people would be fuming very quickly.
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Actually I would be the opposite. I've come to accept that id rather the officials get something close wrong in real time, than waste 5 minutes and still not necessarily get it right.
 
Southdownswolf said:
Actually I would be the opposite. I've come to accept that id rather the officials get something close wrong in real time, than waste 5 minutes and still not necessarily get it right.
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So you accepted the United/Sasa decision on the opening day? The Sheff Utd or Newcastle penalties against us?

VAR was effectively not in use then as they didn't get involved and they barely delayed the game as far as I can remember. Fair enough if so, but those are three of the big decisions our fans are (rightly) annoyed at, but there's a lot of misguided (IMO) anger towards VAR in these instances.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
So you accepted the United/Sasa decision on the opening day? The Sheff Utd or Newcastle penalties against us?

VAR was effectively not in use then as they didn't get involved and they barely delayed the game as far as I can remember. Fair enough if so, but those are three of the big decisions our fans are (rightly) annoyed at, but there's a lot of misguided (IMO) anger towards VAR in these instances.
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But that's the point, even with VAR they **** it up. I'd much rather see officials make a decision in real time, than have VAR and STILL get it wrong. I won't cheer a decision for us with VAR and I'll certainly carry on chanting **** VAR while waiting for a decision.
 
VAR could in theory be quite useful IMO, but it's become a nightmare; it's not just the absurd mind-numbing time spent on it but the fact they still then seem to frequently get stuff wrong anyway. The emotion of the game is compromised for no clear gain, I think. And the game is all about the emotion.

I'd be happy to see it binned myself. I think football's way better with a few honest errors along the way. You'd keep the speed, action, intensity etc. It's pants without that.
 
Southdownswolf said:
But that's the point, even with VAR they **** it up. I'd much rather see officials make a decision in real time, than have VAR and STILL get it wrong. I won't cheer a decision for us with VAR and I'll certainly carry on chanting **** VAR while waiting for a decision.
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But VAR didn't get involved.

Nothing changed in any of those situations. They played out as if VAR wasn't there, and they all went against us.
 
yateleywolf said:
Im not buying these toe nail off side calls I don't trust the tech enough and where the lines are placed by the operator.
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Not to mention the size of their feet (not even joking)
Size 11 vs size 8

So if you are a forward with above average size feet you are penalised. Complete bloody joke.
 
The Clock said:
Not to mention the size of their feet (not even joking)
Size 11 vs size 8

So if you are a forward with above average size feet you are penalised. Complete bloody joke.
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It's the same as it's always been.

I honestly don't get the anger towards an offside. It's like moaning about the ball crossing the line for a goal.

You're on or you're off.

Without VAR, you're on or you're off and the linesman would make a decision accordingly, including if he thought your big toe was offside.

There's also never been a 'benefit of the doubt for the attacker' even though it's a myth that's regularly claimed. It's also nothing to do with clear and obvious.

Offsides should be something that many are on board with as it's similar to goalline technology as it's giving us a factual decision, albeit not as quickly. However, hopefully that will be improved next season.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
But VAR didn't get involved.

Nothing changed in any of those situations. They played out as if VAR wasn't there, and they all went against us.
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VAR did get involved... it decided to not take action. They would have looked at it while action continued and then still got it wrong. Do you honestly think they didn't look at it? What is the point of it? You then have times where there is a break in play that is further lengthened due to them looking at a decision in intricate detail, slowing it down frame by frame...
 
Southdownswolf said:
VAR did get involved... it decided to not take action. They would have looked at it while action continued and then still got it wrong. Do you honestly think they didn't look at it? What is the point of it? You then have times where there is a break in play that is further lengthened due to them looking at a decision in intricate detail, slowing it down frame by frame...
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Of course they looked at it but I mean it didn't stop a game or take a ridiculous amount of time to get to the outcome.

The point is that three of the major clangers against us wouldn't have changed if you had your way and there was no VAR.

That's football how you want it, but it was absolutely terrible IMO, as we were on the end of awful decisions.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
The point is that three of the major clangers against us wouldn't have changed if you had your way and there was no Var
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Exactly!
So what is the point of VAR?
Give me a reason for having it. Every single week there is even more controversy over decisions than before it was introduced.
People were annoyed that the ref didn't give decisions, but even more annoyed that supposed technology is there but it was useless. It's still useless and needs binning.
 
Southdownswolf said:
Exactly!
So what is the point of VAR?
Give me a reason for having it. Every single week there is even more controversy over decisions than before it was introduced.
People were annoyed that the ref didn't give decisions, but even more annoyed that supposed technology is there but it was useless. It's still useless and needs binning.
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We were sold the premise that VAR would solve all the issues. All the bad decisions that we felt got missed in the past wouldn't have if VAR was there. But this 'clear and obvious' doctrine they've employed means that actually most of those old decisions they claimed VAR would solve would have just been waved away as not a 'clear and obvious error'.

No one wants it but the PL will never back track now.
 
Southdownswolf said:
Exactly!
So what is the point of VAR?
Give me a reason for having it. Every single week there is even more controversy over decisions than before it was introduced.
People were annoyed that the ref didn't give decisions, but even more annoyed that supposed technology is there but it was useless. It's still useless and needs binning.
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They should have intervened. Like they should have today.

They still make mistakes, but it does get more right than before. I accept some are not happy with that trade in terms of what it takes away, but I think it's okay.

The point is that there's so many bad decisions that are made, and as fans we don't have a culture that accepts these as genuine mistakes.
 
Frank Lincoln said:
I have just watched Monza v Atalanta. It was a decent game, Atalanta were two goals up, but Monza pulled one back a couple of minutes before the end and came very close to equalising, with the ball hitting a post before rolling across the line.

Tomorrow evening is the Milan derby. That should be fun.
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Will that be the last one in the San Siro?
 
Matt said:
It's not even the decision, I thought he was offside at the time - it is the correct decision. It's just the whole process, imagine coming from 0-3 down to get a winner in the 122nd minute and going absolutely mental only for it to be ruled out a couple of minutes later. It is just ****, it is ruining football and the emotions that come with it.
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Yep. Getting a slightly wrong decision right will never outweigh what VAR has taken out of the game and you could not get a bigger example of it than you did yesterday

As you say, football is emotion, and it's been ruined
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
I honestly don't get the anger towards an offside. It's like moaning about the ball crossing the line for a goal.

You're on or you're off
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You’re literally literally not, that’s the point ffs!

The technology for offsides is NOT THE SAME as goal line tech and is nowhere near accurate enough to make the kind of decisions it did today!
 
thommo1984 said:
You’re literally literally not, that’s the point ffs!

The technology for offsides is NOT THE SAME as goal line tech and is nowhere near accurate enough to make the kind of decisions it did today!
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Well you are either on or off.

There’s a margin for error with Hawkeye as well, admittedly smaller.

The point is that the same process is applied to everyone for offsides. They draw the lines and there’s also a margin for error there.
 
Monketron said:
We were sold the premise that VAR would solve all the issues. All the bad decisions that we felt got missed in the past wouldn't have if VAR was there. But this 'clear and obvious' doctrine they've employed means that actually most of those old decisions they claimed VAR would solve would have just been waved away as not a 'clear and obvious error'.

No one wants it but the PL will never back track now.
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True people thought there would be hardly any errors and all refs would be giving the same decision each week but obviously as it’s very subjective they don’t.

Not sure that was really considered which is why it should have only be used for factual things .
 
What happened to the thicker lines? A few mm offside à la Jonny wasn't supposed to happen this season, but apparently still does. Pre technology that isn't off, it's level, so it has changed (ruined) the game.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
Well you are either on or off.

There’s a margin for error with Hawkeye as well, admittedly smaller.

The point is that the same process is applied to everyone for offsides. They draw the lines and there’s also a margin for error there.
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Thing is if there's no VAR there's no outrage at that not being given offside. It is offside, but it's close. It's not a howler by the linesman to give that as onside and what we all wanted sorting out was the howlers

If there was ever a game that proved VAR was rubbish, yesterday was it. It takes far more than it gives, even when it gives a factually correct decision
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
Well you are either on or off.

There’s a margin for error with Hawkeye as well, admittedly smaller.

The point is that the same process is applied to everyone for offsides. They draw the lines and there’s also a margin for error there.
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One of the problems is when they stop the frame to check. How the hell do they know when it left the passing players foot to that accuracy, they can’t, and one frame out would make a difference to offside or not.
 
It needs to be looked into if refs are now less likely to rule on big decisions because they think that because VAR is operating in the background if they miss something really bad it'll get pulled back. Similar to how play continues after a close offside. However as we all know, VAR is not getting involved in the way it should due to the completely subjective 'clear and obvious' loophole they have.

Take the pen against us in the Sheffield game. When you see the replays it is very obviously not a penalty, however it seems like VAR are looking at that thinking 'is it fair for the referee to think that is a penalty, possibly because it happened so fast and he doesn't have the best angle of it. Therefore it's not a clear and obvious error by the ref.'
 
Hazza said:
One of the problems is when they stop the frame to check. How the hell do they know when it left the passing players foot to that accuracy, they can’t, and one frame out would make a difference to offside or not.
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I think I read somewhere that at full speed a top pro can expect to run about 30 cm in the time between frames. It’s absolute madness to believe that those lines they draw are accurate enough to be used for judging offside on a single frame of footage.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
It's the same as it's always been.

I honestly don't get the anger towards an offside. It's like moaning about the ball crossing the line for a goal.

You're on or you're off.

Without VAR, you're on or you're off and the linesman would make a decision accordingly, including if he thought your big toe was offside.

There's also never been a 'benefit of the doubt for the attacker' even though it's a myth that's regularly claimed. It's also nothing to do with clear and obvious.

Offsides should be something that many are on board with as it's similar to goalline technology as it's giving us a factual decision, albeit not as quickly. However, hopefully that will be improved next season.
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Mike Riley seems to think differently:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1424682740176330756
 
Fenrir_ said:
Thing is if there's no VAR there's no outrage at that not being given offside. It is offside, but it's close. It's not a howler by the linesman to give that as onside and what we all wanted sorting out was the howlers

If there was ever a game that proved VAR was rubbish, yesterday was it. It takes far more than it gives, even when it gives a factually correct decision
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I disagree.

If there was no VAR, and we then had a TV image to show that, whether marginal or not, a team had scored a goal to reach an FA Cup final that was actually offside (according to the images) then there would be outrage. There would be calls for a replay, there would be anger and it would be hard to argue with them.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
I disagree.

If there was no VAR, and we then had a TV image to show that, whether marginal or not, a team had scored a goal to reach an FA Cup final that was actually offside (according to the images) then there would be outrage. There would be calls for a replay, there would be anger and it would be hard to argue with them.
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But if you'd showed that image 10 years ago then everyone would have said he was level and the lino got it right. It's only the need for a forensic analysis for VAR that has made people say that if an attacker's big toe is 1mm closer to the goal line than a defender's shoulder it's offside.
 
SingYourHeartsOut said:
But if you'd showed that image 10 years ago then everyone would have said he was level and the lino got it right. It's only the need for a forensic analysis for VAR that has made people say that if an attacker's big toe is 1mm closer to the goal line than a defenders shoulder it's offside.
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Yes, perhaps, probably right. But that's irrelevant now really as we would have a TV company showing us and once we saw it was offside then there would be outrage.

I firmly believe this is anti-United. Generally, offsides have been more accepted (I feel anyway) in the football world when it comes to VAR but because it's denied a great story, it's now getting criticised.

I do get that stance by the way. I just can't imagine people would be so understanding had Arsenal beat us 1-0 on Saturday night with a goal that we could see within 60 seconds that was offside!
 
Think if the linesman had put his flag up for offside and the Torp effort was disallowed onfield and then VAR showed that in fact he was 1mm onside and the goal was given no-one would be.complaining about VAR.
 
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