Everton, surely a points deduction?

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Do you know how much a top KC charges? I seriously doubt that the PL would want to pay the £750+/hour necessary to have one solely devoted to their panel..... I also suspect that the independence of such a KC would be questioned.

That's my point though. If you want to have the same panel to judge all the cases then you'd probably find the KC you'd got for the first one couldn't squeeze a second one, third one, who knows into their schedule? As it is I can't help but feel that waiting for them to fit is in might be part of the reason for the ridiculous amount of time decisions take.

 

[Hot Fuss]

If 6 points is the benchmark should they get 6 plus another 6 plus another 2 or 3 for persistent offending.

In any other walk of life if you repeat offend the punishment becomes stronger.

Listened to a podcast last week, a bloke on there sounded pretty clued up. Reckons Everton will get another 4 points deducted making 10 in total and Forest will get 2-3 points deducted.

 

[topcat99]

Thought that the minimum was 6 points?

 

[topcat99]

Also: if Villa lost 119.6 last year. And profit of 300k the year before (as per the article). They need a profit of 14.3 million this year to stay onside

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Thought that the minimum was 6 points?

That was the PL request. Panel just decided to do what it wanted. The PL failed to actually write any penalties into the rules

 

[WolfLing]

Also: if Villa lost 119.6 last year. And profit of 300k the year before (as per the article). They need a profit of 14.3 million this year to stay onside

Correct.

They will shed some players naturally, so will reduce the wage bill.

But their wages, plus amortisation costs are significant.

I don't see how they go from a -£119.6m loss, to a £14.3m profit in one season without a couple of significant sales?

There wages plus amortisation costs are also way ahead of the 80% of revenue for the squad cost rules going into next season too.

Champions League qualification will increase their turnover, reducing the losses and giving them more headroom for the squad costs rules. But I don't think that alone will be enough to get them to where they need to be.

Fail to qualify for the Champions League and it could mean having to sell a lot of players.

 

[topcat99]

Correct.

They will shed some players naturally, so will reduce the wage bill.

But their wages, plus amortisation costs are significant.

I don't see how they go from a -£119.6m loss, to a £14.3m profit in one season without a couple of significant sales?

There wages plus amortisation costs are also way ahead of the 80% of revenue for the squad cost rules going into next season too.

Champions League qualification will increase their turnover, reducing the losses and giving them more headroom for the squad costs rules. But I don't think that alone will be enough to get them to where they need to be.

Fail to qualify for the Champions League and it could mean having to sell a lot of players.

That’s how I read it.

However, the 300k profit was only there because they sold Grealish, so without that it’s another huge loss.
I know that is whataboutery, but I would have expected a bigger profit in that year.

Interesting

 

[Dingle Chris]

That’s how I read it.

However, the 300k profit was only there because they sold Grealish, so without that it’s another huge loss.
I know that is whataboutery, but I would have expected a bigger profit in that year.

Interesting

I think we have to remember these are the losses on their accounts on companies house. There are various deductions allowable for FFP.

 

[topcat99]

I think we have to remember these are the losses on their accounts on companies house. There are various deductions allowable for FFP.

Yep. Opaque

 

[WolfLing]

That’s how I read it.

However, the 300k profit was only there because they sold Grealish, so without that it’s another huge loss.
I know that is whataboutery, but I would have expected a bigger profit in that year.

Interesting

The interesting thing is I've seen a lot of comments from multiple Villa fans along the lines of "I trust our owners!".

If I were a Villa fan, I would trust the owners too. They've been on a roll over the last few seasons, where everything they've done has gone their way and really helped them achieve all their goals.

Won the playoffs, where a defeat would have potentially meant financial meltdown.
Sold Grealish for top dollar when they needed to, to keep the coffers full and satisfy FFP requirements.
New signings and manager have performed exceptionally well, to help achieve their stated goals.
If they get Champions League this season, they will have done it one season after their stated aim.

It's OK trusting the owners when it's all going to plan. But what about trusting them if they need to start selling players? How many Wolves fans trusted Fosun last summer?

If they make Champions League, what then happens? They spend more? What then happens when they don't make the Champions League and their revenues plummet?

It'll all go pear-shaped at some stage. Clubs not already in the elite can't consistently compete with the elite by spending.

 

[glorybox]

The interesting thing is I've seen a lot of comments from multiple Villa fans along the lines of "I trust our owners!".

If I were a Villa fan, I would trust the owners too. They've been on a roll over the last few seasons, where everything they've done has gone their way and really helped them achieve all their goals.

Won the playoffs, where a defeat would have potentially meant financial meltdown.
Sold Grealish for top dollar when they needed to, to keep the coffers full and satisfy FFP requirements.
New signings and manager have performed exceptionally well, to help achieve their stated goals.
If they get Champions League this season, they will have done it one season after their stated aim.

It's OK trusting the owners when it's all going to plan. But what about trusting them if they need to start selling players? How many Wolves fans trusted Fosun last summer?

If they make Champions League, what then happens? They spend more? What then happens when they don't make the Champions League and their revenues plummet?

It'll all go pear-shaped at some stage. Clubs not already in the elite can't consistently compete with the elite by spending.

I feel Villa have done a similar thing to when we got promoted, ie invested heavily in quality to accelerate their progress, aided by a top quality manager. However, that isn’t sustainable and somewhere down the line there will be payback, champions league qualification several years on the row the only potential saviour.

 

[WickedWolfie]

The interesting thing is I've seen a lot of comments from multiple Villa fans along the lines of "I trust our owners!".

If I were a Villa fan, I would trust the owners too. They've been on a roll over the last few seasons, where everything they've done has gone their way and really helped them achieve all their goals.

Won the playoffs, where a defeat would have potentially meant financial meltdown.
Sold Grealish for top dollar when they needed to, to keep the coffers full and satisfy FFP requirements.
New signings and manager have performed exceptionally well, to help achieve their stated goals.
If they get Champions League this season, they will have done it one season after their stated aim.

It's OK trusting the owners when it's all going to plan. But what about trusting them if they need to start selling players? How many Wolves fans trusted Fosun last summer?

If they make Champions League, what then happens? They spend more? What then happens when they don't make the Champions League and their revenues plummet?

It'll all go pear-shaped at some stage. Clubs not already in the elite can't consistently compete with the elite by spending.

Re your last para unless someone comes up with a cunning wheeze to circumvent the current paradigm, designed to preserve the status quo in perpetuity, l agree.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

The interesting thing is I've seen a lot of comments from multiple Villa fans along the lines of "I trust our owners!".

If I were a Villa fan, I would trust the owners too. They've been on a roll over the last few seasons, where everything they've done has gone their way and really helped them achieve all their goals.

Won the playoffs, where a defeat would have potentially meant financial meltdown.
Sold Grealish for top dollar when they needed to, to keep the coffers full and satisfy FFP requirements.
New signings and manager have performed exceptionally well, to help achieve their stated goals.
If they get Champions League this season, they will have done it one season after their stated aim.

It's OK trusting the owners when it's all going to plan. But what about trusting them if they need to start selling players? How many Wolves fans trusted Fosun last summer?

If they make Champions League, what then happens? They spend more? What then happens when they don't make the Champions League and their revenues plummet?

It'll all go pear-shaped at some stage. Clubs not already in the elite can't consistently compete with the elite by spending.

They can’t keep getting this lucky. It’s about to run out

 

[RosehillWolf]

Re your last para unless someone comes up with a cunning wheeze to circumvent the current paradigm, designed to preserve the status quo in perpetuity, l agree.

That’s easy for you to say

 

[Skrilla]

The interesting thing is I've seen a lot of comments from multiple Villa fans along the lines of "I trust our owners!".

If I were a Villa fan, I would trust the owners too. They've been on a roll over the last few seasons, where everything they've done has gone their way and really helped them achieve all their goals.

Won the playoffs, where a defeat would have potentially meant financial meltdown.
Sold Grealish for top dollar when they needed to, to keep the coffers full and satisfy FFP requirements.
New signings and manager have performed exceptionally well, to help achieve their stated goals.
If they get Champions League this season, they will have done it one season after their stated aim.

It's OK trusting the owners when it's all going to plan. But what about trusting them if they need to start selling players? How many Wolves fans trusted Fosun last summer?

If they make Champions League, what then happens? They spend more? What then happens when they don't make the Champions League and their revenues plummet?

It'll all go pear-shaped at some stage. Clubs not already in the elite can't consistently compete with the elite by spending.

Very easy to pretend it's all rosey when things are going well on the pitch. Those losses are absolutely frightening and they've done absolutely nothing to stem the tide in terms of wages and amortisation costs, they even kept spending in January. Good luck dealing with the even more stringent UEFA FFP rules as well.

Jacob Ramsey is quality and will certainly help them press the reset button somewhat as a homegrown player that will generate pure profit, but I don't think they get near Grealish money for him, especially when other clubs know they have to sell.

 

[WW1963]

Very easy to pretend it's all rosey when things are going well on the pitch. Those losses are absolutely frightening and they've done absolutely nothing to stem the tide in terms of wages and amortisation costs, they even kept spending in January. Good luck dealing with the even more stringent UEFA FFP rules as well.

Jacob Ramsey is quality and will certainly help them press the reset button somewhat as a homegrown player that will generate pure profit, but I don't think they get near Grealish money for him, especially when other clubs know they have to sell.

Notwithstanding that nobody is going to be spending as in seasons past. As with Neto, top dollar will only come from the likes of PSG.

I doubt that either will go to a PL club for much more than £30m plus a player thrown in as a makeweight. I reckon there will be a fair few transfers of that type in the summer.

 

[waggys left foot]

Papers full of stories that Leicester on collision course with EFL ffp regulations

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Papers full of stories that Leicester on collision course with EFL ffp regulations

Leeds could also be in trouble.

 

[Scallywolf]

The interesting thing is I've seen a lot of comments from multiple Villa fans along the lines of "I trust our owners!".

If I were a Villa fan, I would trust the owners too. They've been on a roll over the last few seasons, where everything they've done has gone their way and really helped them achieve all their goals.

Won the playoffs, where a defeat would have potentially meant financial meltdown.
Sold Grealish for top dollar when they needed to, to keep the coffers full and satisfy FFP requirements.
New signings and manager have performed exceptionally well, to help achieve their stated goals.
If they get Champions League this season, they will have done it one season after their stated aim.

It's OK trusting the owners when it's all going to plan. But what about trusting them if they need to start selling players? How many Wolves fans trusted Fosun last summer?

If they make Champions League, what then happens? They spend more? What then happens when they don't make the Champions League and their revenues plummet?

It'll all go pear-shaped at some stage. Clubs not already in the elite can't consistently compete with the elite by spending.

Villa have also been pretty lucky as well.

They could and should have been relegated when they played Sheffield United and the goal line technology didn’t work during the lockdown season. Ball was definitely over the line, after a mare by their keeper but technology didn’t work. Result was 0-0 but they should have lost.

Where would they be now without that luck?

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Villa have also been pretty lucky as well.

They could and should have been relegated when they played Sheffield United and the goal line technology didn’t work during the lockdown season. Ball was definitely over the line, after a mare by their keeper but technology didn’t work. Result was 0-0 but they should have lost.

Where would they be now without that luck?

Scripted. The arsenal game they won was influenced also

 

[Scallywolf]

Very easy to pretend it's all rosey when things are going well on the pitch. Those losses are absolutely frightening and they've done absolutely nothing to stem the tide in terms of wages and amortisation costs, they even kept spending in January. Good luck dealing with the even more stringent UEFA FFP rules as well.

Jacob Ramsey is quality and will certainly help them press the reset button somewhat as a homegrown player that will generate pure profit, but I don't think they get near Grealish money for him, especially when other clubs know they have to sell.

Spot on about Ramsey. Unfortunately he is picking up a few injuries lately, which are affecting his performances. If they sell him, he is worth £50million imo. Excellent player.

They do have Boubacar Kamara who plays in Ramsey position and cost them nothing at the start of the season after his contract expired at Marseilles. He looks a very good player as well, so Ramsey could get Villa off the hook a bit with FFP/PSR if they sold him.

I just think with FFP/PSR (or whatever bloody else it’s called) clubs should cut their cloth according to the material. They know the rules and the consequences that will eventually follow, yet most seem to ignore them.

Fosun have proved they will spend big money on players, but I don’t think that will continue for us and many other Premier League teams.

 

[WW1963]

Papers full of stories that Leicester on collision course with EFL ffp regulations

The same club that's whining about Everton costing them £100m?

 

[StaffordWolf]

The same club that's whining about Everton costing them £100m?

Very messy situation since with the points deduction Everton should have been down last season not Leicester.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

Villa have also been pretty lucky as well.

They could and should have been relegated when they played Sheffield United and the goal line technology didn’t work during the lockdown season. Ball was definitely over the line, after a mare by their keeper but technology didn’t work. Result was 0-0 but they should have lost.

Where would they be now without that luck?

Villa have always been a jammy club. Something will happen to get them out of it, just like it did when Dr. Evil bankrupted them, or when they sold their training ground because of HS2 to stave off administration

 

[WickedWolfie]

The same club that's whining about Everton costing them £100m?

If there is any truth in this.....

Leicester exploit huge loophole in football's spending rules

EXCLUSIVE BY MATT HUGHES: Leicester have complied with neither the Premier League's fast-track system or the EFL's demands to produce a spending plan.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[wolfgar]

If there is any truth in this.....

Leicester exploit huge loophole in football's spending rules

EXCLUSIVE BY MATT HUGHES: Leicester have complied with neither the Premier League's fast-track system or the EFL's demands to produce a spending plan.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Incredible really? I kinda just miss football without all this, and all the VAR nonsense.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

If there is any truth in this.....

Leicester exploit huge loophole in football's spending rules

EXCLUSIVE BY MATT HUGHES: Leicester have complied with neither the Premier League's fast-track system or the EFL's demands to produce a spending plan.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Yet another reason to dislike Leicester. They are a spiv club

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

Spot on about Ramsey. Unfortunately he is picking up a few injuries lately, which are affecting his performances. If they sell him, he is worth £50million imo. Excellent player.

They do have Boubacar Kamara who plays in Ramsey position and cost them nothing at the start of the season after his contract expired at Marseilles. He looks a very good player as well, so Ramsey could get Villa off the hook a bit with FFP/PSR if they sold him.

I just think with FFP/PSR (or whatever bloody else it’s called) clubs should cut their cloth according to the material. They know the rules and the consequences that will eventually follow, yet most seem to ignore them.

Fosun have proved they will spend big money on players, but I don’t think that will continue for us and many other Premier League teams.

Villa's losses last year included about £50m of player sales, although Ings' £12m would have been pretty much nil on the books with amortisation to pay, it did include a few players who'd been there quite a while and a significant fee for Chukwuemeka.

They've added another £100m+ worth's of amortisation (at least £20m a year) , some hefty wages and probably a big fee to Tielemans and his agent not to mention bonus' and contract improvements for those already there after a successful season.

I'd imagine the conference hasn't added significant money to the coffers and their player sales to date have really just matched those from last year's accounts.

 

[glorybox]

If there is any truth in this.....

Leicester exploit huge loophole in football's spending rules

EXCLUSIVE BY MATT HUGHES: Leicester have complied with neither the Premier League's fast-track system or the EFL's demands to produce a spending plan.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The last paragraph says it all. Shambles.

 

[hollo]

Won't they sell Boubacar kamara as they picked him up on a free?

 

[Norman Bell]

My Uncle lived on the outskirts of Leicester but was no fan of the football club. He used to attend Grace Road ( @Frank Lincoln cricketing mecca !!! ) to watch Leicestershire play. When Leicester City won the league, Clive said there were people at the cricket who were full of it and making comments to my Uncle. He said that when he mentioned they can now pay the full amount out of their winnings to the food suppliers, the bakers, greengrocers, program printers, coach firm and everyone else who they had paid up at a penny pound when they took the bankruptcy route the silence was deafening !!!!

 

[lobodelsur]

We always hear about clubs getting wound up, how many times has it actually happened?

Not sure how you would define 'wound up' but there's a long list of clubs that have gone into administration or CVA.

Administration (British football) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wolves also faced several 'winding-up orders' under our old friends the Bhatti brothers. Slightly different, but still a nerve-wracking time.

 

[Dingle Chris]

Won't they sell Boubacar kamara as they picked him up on a free?

The problem with selling players you've picked up on a free is they are probably on over inflated wages due to being free in the first place.

 

[JamesWolves]

The problem with selling players you've picked up on a free is they are probably on over inflated wages due to being free in the first place.

He's on over 100k a week aswell

 

[WickedWolfie]

The last paragraph says it all. Shambles.

It would be hilarious if Everton ended up suing Leicester.....

 

[WolfLing]

Won't they sell Boubacar kamara as they picked him up on a free?

Potentially.

He will be one of a few assets they have that are very valuable in terms of profit.

Jacob Ramsey will attract pure profit as an academy player.

Kamara the same, as you point out as he was a free transfer.

Then there's players like Emi Martinez and Douglas Luiz, who were relatively low fees with little amortised cost remaining, but whose value has increased significantly.

 

[Ned]

Potentially.

He will be one of a few assets they have that are very valuable in terms of profit.

Jacob Ramsey will attract pure profit as an academy player.

Kamara the same, as you point out as he was a free transfer.

Then there's players like Emi Martinez and Douglas Luiz, who were relatively low fees with little amortised cost remaining, but whose value has increased significantly.

Looks to me that they won't have to sell too many players at once to get out of their hole but I guess that if most other PL clubs are watching their pennies then the fees won't be exactly what they need so may need to sell more than they originally thought.

 

[WolfLing]

Looks to me that they won't have to sell too many players at once to get out of their hole but I guess that if most other PL clubs are watching their pennies then the fees won't be exactly what they need so may need to sell more than they originally thought.

Yes, partly why I’m glad we went earlier than everyone else to avoid the big sell-off this summer.

Oversupply of available players undoubtedly leads to a reduction in price!!

 

[Ned]

Yes, partly why I’m glad we went earlier than everyone else to avoid the big sell-off this summer.

Oversupply of available players undoubtedly leads to a reduction in price!!

It’s why I’ve got a feeling we could have a frustrated Neto on our hands in the summer.

 

[WolfLing]

It’s why I’ve got a feeling we could have a frustrated Neto on our hands in the summer.

Potentially.

But forward players will always demand some sort of premium in my opinion.

Someone is more likely to spend £50m+ on a Neto, than they are a defensive midfield player, or a goalkeeper for example, especially when money is tight.

It's why someone like Jacob Ramsey is probably one of Villa's most saleable assets, as he is a forward minded central midfield player and has a good goal return.