Everton, surely a points deduction?

[North West Wanderer]

yep, Forest were always a “proper” club, born out of Sunday 3pm games in the 80s pre Sky.
Horrible club now.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

yep, Forest were always a “proper” club, born out of Sunday 3pm games in the 80s pre Sky.
Horrible club now.

The old grey matter may not be as good as it was, but weren’t Nottingham Forest the first team to feature in a live game on a Sunday afternoon? I think it was at Tottenham.

 

[North West Wanderer]

The old grey matter may not be as good as it was, but weren’t Nottingham Forest the first team to feature in a live game on a Sunday afternoon? I think it was at Tottenham.

you might have a few years on me Frank!
To me they were a Sheff Wed, Villa, Leeds, Everton, tradition and being proper mattered. the game i fell in love with as a kid doesn’t exist now, and that saddens me.

 

[Saltyjim]

The old grey matter may not be as good as it was, but weren’t Nottingham Forest the first team to feature in a live game on a Sunday afternoon? I think it was at Tottenham.

Think you are correct. We were the second, at home against Villa.

 

[arctic rime]

Reports saying ( The Times ) that Everton & Forest will be charged on Monday. #justsayin

 

[sedgwolf1980]

Looking forward to this week. Just bit gutting the ****s hitting the fan in this free pass of a season and not prior.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Looking forward to this week. Just bit gutting the ****s hitting the fan in this free pass of a season and not prior.

Everton and forest could have 9 points taken off them

 

[arctic rime]

Everton and forest could have 9 points taken off them

That would liven up the relegation battle

 

[Saltyjim]

Article in the I yesterday said Forest and Everton are likely to be charged. Forest are using the defence they held out for a higher fee for Johnson as evidence they are serious about PSR. Which sort of ignores the accounting deadlines. It also says our sale of 140 million worth of players in the summer doesn’t count and quotes sports finance expert Dr Rob Wilson as saying “our calculations expect Wolves to be close”

 

[Willywolf]

Imagine Burnley and Luton’s delight at being so poor, but staying in the premier league because others cheated in previous seasons. Surely Saints, Leeds, Leicester, Burnley will have something to say about it as they were relegated and EFC/NFFC took valuable points from them and others to escape?

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Everton and forest could have 9 points taken off them

That sounds like a £15m breach. To be honest given that Everton obviously thought they'd be able to disappear the breach of £24(?)m previously you can see how on a rolling basis they'd easily try that.

Would really put them back (even more) in trouble. How many people at the start of this season would have predicted them to avoid relegation by 19 points?

 

[StaffordWolf]

That sounds like a £15m breach. To be honest given that Everton obviously thought they'd be able to disappear the breach of £24(?)m previously you can see how on a rolling basis they'd easily try that.

Would really put them back (even more) in trouble. How many people at the start of this season would have predicted them to avoid relegation by 19 points?

Everton also have administration to worry about if the sale doesn't go through.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Who's fault will it be this time , if Everton get done again...

 

[StaffordWolf]

Who's fault will it be this time , if Everton get done again...

Apparently (from someone on their forum) if they get done again it's because they got the first lot of points back so quickly and the premier league is corrupt and want them to go down. Something to that effect anyway.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Apparently (from someone on their forum) if they get done again it's because they got the first lot of points back so quickly and the premier league is corrupt and want them to go down. Something to that effect anyway.

It like being a serial killer...we will let you off with other murders cause we've just found another body. .

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Who's fault will it be this time , if Everton get done again...

Not sympathising with them, but the problem with the whole system is the delay in the sanction. So this offence occured before the first sanction was imposed and cover the same rolling period. It's therefore pretty much inevitable that if they thought they were OK, they would break the limit again.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Not sympathising with them, but the problem with the whole system is the delay in the sanction. So this offence occured before the first sanction was imposed and cover the same rolling period. It's therefore pretty much inevitable that if they thought they were OK, they would break the limit again.

They thought like a lot did ..It's Everton they won't do us ....

 

[Matt]

This is all making the PL look a bit of a shambles imo.

 

[sedgwolf1980]

Who's fault will it be this time , if Everton get done again...

Either the government or perhaps the royal family. Take your pick.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Article in the I yesterday said Forest and Everton are likely to be charged. Forest are using the defence they held out for a higher fee for Johnson as evidence they are serious about PSR. Which sort of ignores the accounting deadlines. It also says our sale of 140 million worth of players in the summer doesn’t count and quotes sports finance expert Dr Rob Wilson as saying “our calculations expect Wolves to be close”

Well that summary as it relates to Wolves isn’t entirely right. A large part of our summer sales was Neves, who was sold for just under £50m, and before the reporting deadline. The rest of the summer sales came after the deadline, so will be reported in the current reporting period when it’s assessed. In saying that, given our January spend, and the spend late summer ‘22, then I wouldn’t be surprised if we are close, but on the right side side of the limit.

Forest can bugger off with their Johnson whine. He was sold after the deadline, and it was by their own admission, their choice, so if we fail to meet the cap, then they should be punished.

Everton, well they were ignoring the limit for years, so if they’ve breached it in multiple periods, then they should get punished for each period.

 

[Minimalist]

Are Everton being charged (potentially) because they have now failed the next cycle of 3 seasons accounting? If so seems slightly odd that the two punishments would apply in one season when the breaches happened at different points?

Also why is it being suggested they and forest get 9 point deduction rather than the 10 Everton got for their first offence?

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

This is all making the PL look a bit of a shambles imo.

Why?

Least they are finally doing something about clubs ignoring ffp

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Are Everton being charged (potentially) because they have now failed the next cycle of 3 seasons accounting? If so seems slightly odd that the two punishments would apply in one season when the breaches happened at different points?

Also why is it being suggested they and forest get 9 point deduction rather than the 10 Everton got for their first offence?

The problem was not imposing the sanction for 21/22 last season though, which was really due to their appeal process. It was suggested it might be imposed, but the panel said they couldn't do it in time. Can't see a way round that.

On the scale of the deduction, it depends on the scale of the breach. The PL standard now seems to be 6 points plus an extra point for every £5m. That should have been established long ago, but again you can't rewind time (sadly!)

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Are Everton being charged (potentially) because they have now failed the next cycle of 3 seasons accounting? If so seems slightly odd that the two punishments would apply in one season when the breaches happened at different points?

Also why is it being suggested they and forest get 9 point deduction rather than the 10 Everton got for their first offence?

Last year the PL agreed to new rules around PSR requiring accounts to be supplied by Dec 31 each year, and any punishments for breach, levied during the season. That wasn’t the case before. Everton are unfortunate that they may get two deductions this season, but they are lucky they didn’t get one last season, when it would have relegated them.

 

[Matt]

Why?

Least they are finally doing something about clubs ignoring ffp

I don’t think it’s a good look for the league dishing out a load of points deductions, personally.

Also the way it’s handled everything, the Everton case spilling into this season when it should have been applied last etc. Just think it makes the “greatest league in the world” look a bit… ****.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Well that summary as it relates to Wolves isn’t entirely right. A large part of our summer sales was Neves, who was sold for just under £50m, and before the reporting deadline. The rest of the summer sales came after the deadline, so will be reported in the current reporting period when it’s assessed. In saying that, given our January spend, and the spend late summer ‘22, then I wouldn’t be surprised if we are close, but on the right side side of the limit.

Forest can bugger off with their Johnson whine. He was sold after the deadline, and it was by their own admission, their choice, so if we fail to meet the cap, then they should be punished.

Everton, well they were ignoring the limit for years, so if they’ve breached it in multiple periods, then they should get punished for each period.

Have you got a definite source for the accounting period? It seems a bit crazy that we can be OK for the season 22/23 on the basis of selling someone after it finished!

 

[Plastic Shrapnel]

When are City getting their sanctions?

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

When are City getting their sanctions?

Next season

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

I don’t think it’s a good look for the league dishing out a load of points deductions, personally.

Also the way it’s handled everything, the Everton case spilling into this season when it should have been applied last etc. Just think it makes the “greatest league in the world” look a bit… ****.

So what’s the solution?

Granted it’s not perfect but it’s better than nothing.

 

[Saltyjim]

Well that summary as it relates to Wolves isn’t entirely right. A large part of our summer sales was Neves, who was sold for just under £50m, and before the reporting deadline. The rest of the summer sales came after the deadline, so will be reported in the current reporting period when it’s assessed. In saying that, given our January spend, and the spend late summer ‘22, then I wouldn’t be surprised if we are close, but on the right side side of the limit.

Forest can bugger off with their Johnson whine. He was sold after the deadline, and it was by their own admission, their choice, so if we fail to meet the cap, then they should be punished.

Everton, well they were ignoring the limit for years, so if they’ve breached it in multiple periods, then they should get punished for each period.

That was my understanding re the Neves sale as well.

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

When are City getting their sanctions?

Much more complex so will take much longer.

 

[lets all have a disco]

When are City getting their sanctions?

They don't not fail the accounts rules though do they. There might be stuff in them , like sponsorship that appears dodgy but thats a whole new level of investigation and trying to prove the matter ....Everton has all been black n white , despite Everton attempts to hide it ..

 

[Ercall Wolves]

Everton and forest could have 9 points taken off them

Really hope so

 

[rincewind]

You can look at Evertons situation two ways. They will be unlucky to get two deductions in one season because the procedure has tightened up. But at least they still have a chance of staying up. On the other hand, if the current deduction had taken place last season they'd already be playing the likes of Rotherham, Huddersfield and the ****.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Next season

City will have there court appearance and trial next year

 

[Wolf316]

City will have there court appearance and trial next year

Their ultra expensive legal team will tie it up for years.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

City will have there court appearance and trial next year

City could face… 40 points taken off them, 100m fine, transfer embargo, (thrown out the league) won’t happen (stripped of titles and cups) won’t happen. Won’t be as bad as made out. Their legal team has nice way of doing things as seen previously

 

[Matt]

So what’s the solution?

Granted it’s not perfect but it’s better than nothing.

I don’t have a solution, I just don’t think it’s a good look that’s all.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Have you got a definite source for the accounting period? It seems a bit crazy that we can be OK for the season 22/23 on the basis of selling someone after it finished!

To quote the Mirror:-

“June 30 is an important date for football clubs. The football financial year runs from July 1 to June 30, with player contracts also expiring when June turns to July. But there is another reason why June 30 is an important date”

Premier League clubs scrambling to complete transfers before deadline this week

The summer transfer window runs from June 14 to September 1, but many clubs are rushing to get business done this week due to important external financial factors

www.mirror.co.uk

Financial reporting periods are fixed, whereas seasons may start and finish at different times, year to year, and club to club.

What is a little complicated, is that the filing dates for clubs financial years vary, with some clubs closing their accounts May 31, and others June 30. Wolves report theirs June-May for instance, whereas Man City report July-June. For the purposes of FFP/PSR compliance, it makes sense that a common reporting period is used, and most accounting firms analysis (eg PwC) assume June 30 when assessing leagues and clubs.

 

[NottsWolves]

I don’t have a solution, I just don’t think it’s a good look that’s all.

I agree it’s not a good look. But neither was them just sitting by allowing clubs to do what they like.

Don’t underestimate the talk of having an independent regulator involved in the future. This is the premier leagues way of showing everyone they can act and regulate themselves.