January 2024 transfer window thread.

[Minimalist]

How does amortisation work if a player like in the case of Johnny extends his contract and wolves sell him when he is past his original contract and into the extended part? Hypothetically Semedo is in the same boat as signed a 2 year extension.

Also, wolves sold Gibbs-white for 25 million but received a further 10 million as Forest stopped up and he played 50 games. Does the 10 million extra go on the accounts for this season or retrospectively?

I’ve also often wondered how it works when a player moves into his second contract/it’s extended.???

Regarding the add ons for the likes of MGW I’d imagine it goes into the accounts for the time of the moment it is triggered.
Likewise outgoing add ons.

 

[lobodelsur]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745841242611622301

Looks like Liam has been reading the newspapers...

 

[Skrilla]

Exactly this. Whilst it was through necessity rather than design it looks like we’ve got our house in order pro-actively and hopefully on that basis we will reap the rewards. Obviously only time will confirm that.

While other clubs are firefighting, we’re in a position where, in the summer, we can spend, within reason.

That puts us in a much stronger position than most of the bottom half clubs, which is a massive positive.

 

[Skrilla]

I’ve also often wondered how it works when a player moves into his second contract/it’s extended.???

Regarding the add ons for the likes of MGW I’d imagine it goes into the accounts for the time of the moment it is triggered.
Likewise outgoing add ons.

Spreads that cost out further, accounting for those extra years.

 

[brianm]

I'm getting the feeling Wolves selling so much this past summer during the Saudi craze and while Chelsea etc were still splashing crazy cash (also the Italian tax break was still in play) is going to look very smart when other clubs are desperate to sell next summer. Things are going to be much quieter I reckon.

That the team are getting by anyway this season is such a boon.

 

[Timberwolf]

It's possible with great recruitment and management, but in reality we no longer have any edge of 30 other teams apart from obviously our current revenue and team.

…and that’s what makes footy great.

 

[wolvesjoe]

Newcastle isn't a strategy. They got brought by a country. And a wealthy one at that.

Villa and West Ham showing what good managers cab do, but interested how ffp can catch up with Villa

FFP means that the relative wealth of the owners becomes less important.

Spending is restricted for all.

Eddie Howe has recently admitted that FFP makes it very difficult to refresh or improve his squad.

Martin Samuel at The Times has called for an end to restrictions on spending as it stops the very
best players coming to England, (aka the richest clubs can do whatever they want).

A club like Wolves, or Newcastle for that matter do not need a country, just owners able to invest
35m on average per season, if needed. And put the money up for an expanded and improved ground,
(which will pay for itself over time).

It will take skilful and imaginative planning, no doubt. Clubs may be forced to retrench at times.

But these margins of financial possibility will become more important over time, (indeed are already), and
Fosun need to step up.

Or find someone who will.

 

[Wisdomwolf]

Either way they are heavily leveraged currently and trying to service a mammoth debt so them spending £250 million on a stadium that will take 10 years minimum to pay for itself isn’t an attractive proposition

Debt to equity circa 50%.. 43% revenues sit outside China. All told not unusual for a Forbes Top 400 Global Company. However, I am with you on stadium redevelopment particularly because real estate has impacted the Chinese economy.

My HKSE friends tell me with an impressive pharma operation and other business segments also expected to do well Fosun are in a good position.

 

[Minimalist]

Spreads that cost out further, accounting for those extra years.

But that would then alter your past accounts?
If all of Everton’s players extend their contracts does that change the accounts under which they got sanctioned??

 

[Wisdomwolf]

I'm getting the feeling Wolves selling so much this past summer during the Saudi craze and while Chelsea etc were still splashing crazy cash (also the Italian tax break was still in play) is going to look very smart when other clubs are desperate to sell next summer. Things are going to be much quieter I reckon.

That the team are getting by anyway this season is such a boon.

Sales will become more difficult owing to liquidity issues and next year PSR will require squad costs are set at 80%. In our case assuming a turnover of £180m, this equates to operating within a £162m envelope (transfers and salaries)

 

[Skrilla]

But that would then alter your past accounts?
If all of Everton’s players extend their contracts does that change the accounts under which they got sanctioned??

Doesn’t change payments that have already been made, only what is still outstanding.

Say we still owed £5m for Jonny, and it was due to be paid this season, a two year extension would make that £1.6m for the next three seasons.

 

[MKWolf]

The remaining value of the unamortised fee gets spread over the length of the new contract. E.G. if there was 1 year left and £5m left to amortise, and the contract was extended by 5 years, the £5m would be split over the next 5 years.

Football Transfers and Creative Accounting: Protect me from what I want - The Price of Football

Following the money behind the beautiful game.

priceoffootball.com

 

[wolvesjoe]

Good article from the Guardian that explores some of the issues raised in this thread in Newcastle's context:

Newcastle may have to sell key player in summer after £73.4m loss

Newcastle accept they may have to sell one of their key players this summer as they strive to remain on the right side of the Premier League’s regulations

www.theguardian.com

 

[AndyY]

Sales will become more difficult owing to liquidity issues and next year PSR will require squad costs are set at 80%. In our case assuming a turnover of £180m, this equates to operating within a £162m envelope (transfers and salaries)

It also means that people moaning that £35M for Gomes or ££50M for Neto is not enough maybe missing the point. FFP/ PSR will restrict some clubs ability to spend willy nilly and that may suppress values of players we may wish to sell. It may also drive player salaries down a bit.

 

[Minimalist]

It also means that people moaning that £35M for Gomes or ££50M for Neto is not enough maybe missing the point. FFP/ PSR will restrict some clubs ability to spend willy nilly and that may suppress values of players we may wish to sell. It may also drive player salaries down a bit.

And lower prices of players we wish to buy.

 

[NothingButNeto]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745868629101445431

 

[Edinburgh Wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745868277614596475

Lembikisa to Hearts confirmed.

 

[MickHolmesFanClub]

I’ve also often wondered how it works when a player moves into his second contract/it’s extended.???

Regarding the add ons for the likes of MGW I’d imagine it goes into the accounts for the time of the moment it is triggered.
Likewise outgoing add ons.

The annual amortised cost is spread equally over the new contract length E.g; we buy a player for £10m on a 4 year contract we amortise £2.5m per year.
If after 3 years he extends for a further year then the £10m is spread over 5 years so instead of a £7.5m charge at that point you only get a £6m charge and £1.5m is written back to profit at that point with the remaining £4m spread over the 2 years left.
Semedo being extended would have given us a write-back to profit of an element of the amortisation charge already incurred and it's possibly why we were keen to do it before the end of May (FYE).

The add-ons for MGW would be accounted for when triggered and not when any cash flows.

 

[VancouverWolf]

He's hardly exciting but it does seem that GON has the ability to make players better and also get the best out of them. As a squad player I think he'd be fine tbh. I think as Wolves fans, unless we somehow squeeze into Europe, we have to accept where we are right now and that is a decent mid-table Prem team with no funds. Nuno led us to a high which we did not build on and we subsequently made some financially crippling purchases which has put us where we are. I think some of us still have unrealistic expectations; unfortunately we need to lower our sights, certainly regarding new players.

Your right but I don‘t like it.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Slight correction, they are not an investment company as we know it. They answer to the Chinese communist government and will be used as a pawn in whatever strategy they deem.

I don’t think Fosun answer to the Chinese government. They are small enough that they fly under their radar most times and the government want their companies to do well, domestically and overseas.
However, of course, if they deemed it important enough they would interfere…….but that is unlikely, afaik.

 

[Lobo de Ouro]

But that would then alter your past accounts?
If all of Everton’s players extend their contracts does that change the accounts under which they got sanctioned??

Businesses have to use cash based accounting or accrual based accounting - cash based meaning you include figures paid in or out in the tax year, regardless of when they were invoiced. Accrual based meaning you include things that have been invoiced in the year regardless of if they have been paid. Anything above about £50k income companies have no choice and have to use accrual basis.

So submitted returns would not be affected by anything like that.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

It also means that people moaning that £35M for Gomes or ££50M for Neto is not enough maybe missing the point. FFP/ PSR will restrict some clubs ability to spend willy nilly and that may suppress values of players we may wish to sell. It may also drive player salaries down a bit.

Yes this will affect many players but the in demand top players will still go for stupid dosh. The question is would we choose to seell the player or not. If we are more happy to keep the player then why should we not go for top money?

 

[Golden Arrow]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745868277614596475

Lembikisa to Hearts confirmed.

Think I might arrange a trip to Tynecastle as no doubt Wolves won't be playing at 3.00pm on a Saturday.

 

[Krispy Kreme]

I don’t think we need to sign anyone but hey what do I know.

Nathan Fraser & Fletcher Holman are adequate cover until Hwang is back.

Opportunities from the bench will help them improve.

Buy a striker in the summer when we have more resources to do so.

We are dangerously close to FFP, is it worth the risk?

I'm not against giving either of those players appearances if only to boost their value.

But we will suffer if they are regular starters I think, but happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I'm not against giving either of those players appearances if only to boost their value.

But we will suffer if they are regular starters I think, but happy to be proven wrong.

Option off the bench on the hour give them 30/40 mins to showcase their abilities both know how to score goals and hold up play. Yea they are young.

Look at brighton, they signed a kid from Ireland… Gave him a chance and is now rated by them at £100m so sometimes it’s risk and reward the MOLINEUX crowd will give any young player energy. We should not be apprehensive because fabio silva didn’t work out here.

Holman and Fraser are different mentality they are scorers already. They know where the net is. Give them an opportunity from the bench, you never know…… One opportunity, one shot (Eminem)

“Look Holman & Fraser, If you had, One shot, Or one opportunity.. To seize everything you ever wanted In one moment. Would you capture it, or just let it slip?”

 

[mcwolf]

looking at the ffp rules now been enforced good scouts will be worth their weight in gold unearthing gems

 

[NothingButNeto]

Some more prodding of journos:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745886437864550472

 

[lets all have a disco]

Option off the bench on the hour give them 30/40 mins to showcase their abilities both know how to score goals and hold up play. Yea they are young.

Look at brighton, they signed a kid from Ireland… Gave him a chance and is now rated by them at £100m so sometimes it’s risk and reward the MOLINEUX crowd will give any young player energy. We should not be apprehensive because fabio silva didn’t work out here.

Holman and Fraser are different mentality they are scorers already. They know where the net is. Give them an opportunity from the bench, you never know…… One opportunity, one shot (Eminem)

“Look Holman & Fraser, If you had, One shot, Or one opportunity.. To seize everything you ever wanted In one moment. Would you capture it, or just let it slip?”

You aye seriously saying Holman is an option are you?

 

[mcfc]

Thinks he is better than our current midfield more delusional

Not sure where you get that from:

"I am learning from all this experience. I cannot get into the Wolves team at the present time because there are so many good players in front of me. I have no complaints about that’’

Hodge just needs to play football to develop and that will be through a loan no doubt.

 

[Chris H]

How does amortisation work if a player like in the case of Johnny extends his contract and wolves sell him when he is past his original contract and into the extended part? Hypothetically Semedo is in the same boat as signed a 2 year extension.

Also, wolves sold Gibbs-white for 25 million but received a further 10 million as Forest stopped up and he played 50 games. Does the 10 million extra go on the accounts for this season or retrospectively?

That's a good question about the add ons. I'd assume it is when the accounting takes place, which is not necessarily when the cash moves.

I’ve also often wondered how it works when a player moves into his second contract/it’s extended.???

Regarding the add ons for the likes of MGW I’d imagine it goes into the accounts for the time of the moment it is triggered.
Likewise outgoing add ons.

I’ll try and cover all as simply as possible:

Amortisation- if a player is purchased for £10m over 5 years they’re amortised at £2m a year. If after 3 years they sign a contract extension of 2 years (extending to 4 left in total) the remaining £4m (£10m - (£2m x 3)) is then amortised over those 4 years at £1m a year.

Add-ons (selling) - the selling club would account for the base sale price at the point of sale and any profit / loss on disposal is accounted for at that point. If after 12 months an add-on is received this would be accounted for when it fell due, on whatever date the add-on conditions are met.

Add-ons (buying) - the buying club would account for the base purchase price at the point of purchase to be amortised over the length of the contract. If after 12 months an add-on becomes due I believe this would be added to the asset value to also be amortised but only over the remainder of the contract that is left at the point the add-on is achieved.

You don’t go back and amend previous submitted figures because at the time they were prepared the values were correct under the conditions at that point. Add-ons are only accounted for from the point they are achieved onwards.

Hopefully that explains everything without getting too in depth and dull!

 

[Surrey Wolf]

I don’t think Fosun answer to the Chinese government. They are small enough that they fly under their radar most times and the government want their companies to do well, domestically and overseas.
However, of course, if they deemed it important enough they would interfere…….but that is unlikely, afaik.

Fosun appointed a number of ccp members to roles within the business last summer from what I remember reading at the time. They may or may not answer to the govt, but the govt has people working in fosun.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Fosun appointed a number of ccp members to roles within the business last summer from what I remember reading at the time. They may or may not answer to the govt, but the govt has people working in fosun.

That’s true…….all big companies have to have a Party member on the board. However, in most cases it’s mostly a watchdog , type of thing.

I doubt that it impacts Wolves to any extent……..(at least I hope not.)

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

You aye seriously saying Holman is an option are you?

Off the bench who else we got? Him and Fraser. Time to unearth the next Evan Ferguson

 

[lets all have a disco]

Off the bench who else we got?

They aye kicked a ball in men's football and you think they can come on in the premier league.....

Come on , it's beyond daft ...

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

They aye kicked a ball in men's football and you think they can come on in the premier league.....

Come on , it's beyond daft ...

Evan Ferguson didn’t kick a ball in the prem league either the Irish league is the same standard as non league where Holman come from free scoring goals. Until we get a striker those are our options…. Don’t see what the issue is we are safe this season. Time to unearth the young guns. Off the bench is no harm. I don’t see the overreaction. Brighton now have 100m rated Evan Ferguson because they took a risk. Time we did the same if we want to follow their path…. The days of signing the likes of Guedes are over!!

 

[NothingButNeto]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745915513786486864

 

[JTWolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745915513786486864

Can’t see us paying 100k a week or there about….

60-70k maybe. With saving on Fabio.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Evan Ferguson didn’t kick a ball in the prem league either the Irish league is the same standard as non league where Holman come from free scoring goals. Until we get a striker those are our options…. Don’t see what the issue is we are safe this season. Time to unearth the young guns. Off the bench is no harm. I don’t see the overreaction. Brighton now have 100m rated Evan Ferguson because they took a risk. Time we did the same if we want to follow their path…. The days of signing the likes of Guedes are over!!

Is Moxey related to you.....

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Can’t see us paying 100k a week or there about….

60-70k maybe. With saving on Fabio.

70k max but that still one of our bigger earners, max new contract went up to 90k I think

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

70k max but that still one of our bigger earners, max new contract went up to 90k I think

If Jonny goes maybe…. Can’t see it happening to be honest. I trust Hobbs judgement whatever happens