January 2024 transfer window thread.

[Teddy Ruxpin]

The success of our youth set up depends on what you expect it to be.

If you believe it should be producing a steady stream of first team players then yes it is of course a failure, but by that yardstick then most Premier League teams academies are also failures.

If you believe it should concentrate on developing players who can play first class football and be self sufficient from those players with the odd MGW thrown in every couple of years then yes we are a success and selling Cundle for £2m is very much part of that success.

The simple truth is, it is very hard to make it as a pro-footballer, let alone a regular Premier League starter. How many English players are in the leagues starting line up every week? How many players come through academies each year?

To expect every youth prospect who gets as close as the senior squad to be a viable first team option is just not going to happen. It's just not how it works

Yes there are premier League academies who do produce more first team players than we are, but they are also bigger clubs who are getting the pick of the crop too.

You have to look at what our academy is there to do and I have to say it's reasonably successful in that it more than pays for itself whilst giving a route to first team football for it's graduates, be that with Wolves or elsewhere

 

[Severnup]

The success of our youth set up depends on what you expect it to be.

If you believe it should be producing a steady stream of first team players then yes it is of course a failure, but by that yardstick then most Premier League teams academies are also failures.

If you believe it should concentrate on developing players who can play first class football and be self sufficient from those players with the odd MGW thrown in every couple of years then yes we are a success and selling Cundle for £2m is very much part of that success.

The simple truth is, it is very hard to make it as a pro-footballer, let alone a regular Premier League starter. How many English players are in the leagues starting line up every week? How many players come through academies each year?

To expect every youth prospect who gets as close as the senior squad to be a viable first team option is just not going to happen. It's just not how it works

Yes there are premier League academies who do produce more first team players than we are, but they are also bigger clubs who are getting the pick of the crop too.

You have to look at what our academy is there to do and I have to say it's reasonably successful in that it more than pays for itself whilst giving a route to first team football for it's graduates, be that with Wolves or elsewhere

Excellent post.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Where’s cundle off to?

How much,

 

[Minimalist]

Where’s cundle off to?

How much,

Rumours Bristol city and Stoke are interested. £2M.

 

[SuperGran]

We've got MGW at Forest, Giles at Luton, and with respect Bueno (if we are going to go with players making their debuts through our system), all playing for Premier League teams and all young to have been produced within the last decade (arguably the last five years). Whilst we have a handful of players out on loan that could be prospects (Nathan Fraser, Dexter Lembisika etc etc), plus the generation behind them is seen as promising.

You are literally talking waffle.

On the recruitment, I'm not sure what you might know but academies are far bigger than the 90s and the networks are far more extensive that we aren't just picking from young players within the borders of the UK and Ireland but actually searching global to bring younger players in and raise the standards.

The academy is successfully doing it's job by producing a consistent path to professional football for it's graduates and at the same time giving Wolves a financial return on the effort they've put in, the sales of the likes of a Giles, or MGW, are extremely valueable under FFP for a club like ourselves, so no, I hugely disagree with your statement that it's failing.

Its mad that people still can’t understand the role of the academy at clubs.

 

[Supadavewolf]

Louie Moulden will be next sold for peanuts he will play for England mark me words

... Alongside Moulden will definitely play for England.

Not sure about playing for his country but I for one would pick him ahead of Dan "Oooh, is that a cross coming over? I'd better duck out of the way" Bailey.

Oops, edit: Dan Bentley. Good in the dressing room by all accounts, but never a PL keeper IMV

 

[WolvesAndCows]

Where’s cundle off to?

How much,

Considering he's the next Paul Scholes, hopefully he's off to somewhere for about £30m

 

[Stafford]

I think we do develop young players like Kilman and Hause, and its an area we have to use because we arent going to produce enough local talent, we do have to supplement it, but i dont agree with you there have been loads of players we have sold for decent money. Giles, Sanderson, Batth and MGW are about it ( correct me if i have missed anyone ). Plenty of players we have invested money in or signed from other clubs ( Matherson, Ronan, Marques and Estrada sping to mind ) have left for next to nothing or actually nothing.


Why are you focusing though on huge talents when i have clearly said just squad players would be fine? There have been plenty of midland based players we could easily have either missed out on or not looked at. Off the top of my head Maddison, Archer ( a self confessed Wolves fan ), Wilson, Ramsey James, Henry, Gray ( both of them ) Deeney, Hart. I'm sure there would be plenty more if i took the time to look into it. I dont disagree about there being a fair bit of competition in the area, but at the same time, we cant have things both ways.

We as a club, and some fans on here are quick to point out how good our academy is, so if its a high standard we should be producing a bit better than what we have. You cant have it both ways. If its a quality academy, you either have to produce plenty of Sandersons, Giles, Batth's who you get good money for every couple of years, a couple of decent squad players, or every so often a Keane, Murray, Lescott or to a lesser extent MGW. We currently for me arent doing any of those 3 things on a regular enough basis to say our academy is producing. Like i said earlier, i probably said the same thing 5 or 6 years ago and got the same sort of replies and nothing has really changed in that time.

97% of players who come through top academies never play a minute of top-flight football​

70% are not even handed a professional contract at a Premier League or English Football League club​

For Wolves to be producing a Premier league squad player every couple of years isn't realistic.
Someone like a MGW is a once a generation thing and we managed to F that one up.
even that list of players the West Midlands has generated over the past 15 years population 6 million? isn't that impressive.

 

[JamesWolves]

97% of players who come through top academies never play a minute of top-flight football​

70% are not even handed a professional contract at a Premier League or English Football League club​

For Wolves to be producing a Premier league squad player every couple of years isn't realistic.
Someone like a MGW is a once a generation thing and we managed to F that one up.
even that list of players the West Midlands has generated over the past 15 years population 6 million? isn't that impressive.

The Midlands produced a generational talent (Bellingham) so it worked itself out.

 

[Premier Quality]

I think we need to bear in mind we’ve only been a premier league club for five years, so Villa and West Brom had an advantage over us prior to that when it came to persuading the best youngsters from the local areas to join.

Those six to eight year olds we started getting are now eleven to thirteen, so I wouldn’t expect the potential new golden generation to start coming through for a few years yet - personally I think we’re doing well with some of the talent at the younger age groups, and demonstrating we can give kids careers even if it’s not with us at the older age groups.

 

[giantwolf]

Its mad that people still can’t understand the role of the academy at clubs.

I’ve stayed out of this one and I’m not going to write a lengthy well articulated reply but there are some idealistic views on an academy on this thread so I’ll say a few things.

*Have we produced enough talent over the past 15-20 years…. absolutely not
*is the academy under Fosun a million times better than previous regimes…. 100% yes
*We have way more academy players going off to play pro football than we’ve ever had (to be a premier league player is a 0.5% chance if not lower) - even looking back over the last 10 years you’d be surprised on the size of the list.
*Do we have more kids getting international recognition than before? Yes
*People hark back to Murray, Lescott etc… the academy world was different back then, you could only recruit from an hour or so’s drive away, now cat 1 clubs can recruit nationwide and like it or not, we haven’t been & aren’t currently top of the pile for most attractive destinations for impressionable kids and their parents… but that is improving
*you want top quality local lads… in the last 12 months we’ve had 16 year old Shahar and 14 year old Harvey Owen poached by big spenders… we can’t compete with that and in our situation, neither should we.
*like any line of business… those bigger fish who want your talent will often offer more than you might get by staying put. We lose some (Shahar/Owen), we win some (Ballard-Matthews/Benjamin) etc

Things are getting better and every player who is sold or simply goes onto play regularly at pro level helps improve the academy further.

Anyway… whilst this started due to Luke Cundle’s impending sale… we’re massively off topic now (sorry mods)

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

Agreed. Him and Toti could be formidable.

Agreed, that was always my "one for the future" dream pairings, but there's a long way to go before it has a chance of coming true. I hope we don't start putting the same pressure / expectations on Yerson as we have on the likes of Toti and Beuno, where one minute they are seen as potential world beaters and the next they are given no allowance for their age and the stage of development they are at. We have some exciting young prospects in and around the first team at the moment and it would be fantastic if they had the opportunity to develop together as a squad.

 

[Rowzed]

We seem to recruit man city cast offs whilst villa plunder albion and coventry's best youth.

That’s a legacy from having Scott Sellars as head of academy and then DoF. he had close connections to a lot of City players he had recruited there who then didn’t make it at City. Moulden, Hodge, Hesketh and a few others came that way. They are all similar generation and moved when they knew they were being overtaken at that Academy ( some through injury ). City could place them elsewhere because they were that good.

the ones that did make it at City ( and a few who moved elsewhere ) are currently populating every England age group squad. Cole Palmer, James Trafford, Tommy Doyle, James McAtee, Rico Lewis, Taylor Harwood Bellis, Phil Foden, Josh Wilson-Esbrand, and I’m sure there are more, but those have all played U21 recently. Three have made first team appearances already. Two others have trained with the first team. The rest of the England squads tend to come in numbers from Liverpool, Chelsea, Villa and a few from some of the other top academies. At 19 these players should be knocking on the door of Championship clubs and by 21 they should be starting in the Champ and Prem, or abroad in a top league

Wolves best Academy players are lucky to be getting Championship appearances at 22, 23, and to get them to that stage requires years of hard work. The top academies are hoovering up top English talent with big contracts.You know when an English born player has worked out their ceiling, they opt for Scotland,, Wales, Ireland, NI or Jamaica at senior level aged 19 or 20. They know by then they aren’t going to make the England first team.

MGW is the only homegrown player we’ve had any where near this level since Lescott. The club knew that, which is why he made his first team debut at 16, England knew it, he was part of the World Cup winners at 17, Forest knew it, which is why they paid handsomely, Nuno knew it which is why he was so hard on him and why he is now club captain at Forest, and most importantly of all, Morgan knew it. He always expects more of himself (unlike multiple other talented kids) so he comes across a bit ‘up himself’.

Morgan knows that Wolves gave him that opportunity, but he moved for the market price when it was right for him.
Cundle will do the same, but is unlikely to attract the same offers ( even though he is a very tidy and very professional player ). Hopefully we will have a sell-on. The Academy does an excellent job with necessarily limited resources. It cannot compete with Manchester City on facilities and with the very top ‘global’ talents, but a career in the championship is a major draw for many good young players and not to be sniffed at.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Not sure about playing for his country but I for one would pick him ahead of Dan "Oooh, is that a cross coming over? I'd better duck out of the way" Bailey.

Who's this Dan "Dracula" Bailey? Dan Bentley ain't great though (and King is way worse).

 

[Woburn Wolf]

Who's this Dan "Dracula" Bailey? Dan Bentley ain't great though (and King is way worse).

Indeed. We need a proper number 2 goalkeeper.

 

[WKFWolf]

I’ve stayed out of this one and I’m not going to write a lengthy well articulated reply but there are some idealistic views on an academy on this thread so I’ll say a few things.

*Have we produced enough talent over the past 15-20 years…. absolutely not
*is the academy under Fosun a million times better than previous regimes…. 100% yes
*We have way more academy players going off to play pro football than we’ve ever had (to be a premier league player is a 0.5% chance if not lower) - even looking back over the last 10 years you’d be surprised on the size of the list.
*Do we have more kids getting international recognition than before? Yes
*People hark back to Murray, Lescott etc… the academy world was different back then, you could only recruit from an hour or so’s drive away, now cat 1 clubs can recruit nationwide and like it or not, we haven’t been & aren’t currently top of the pile for most attractive destinations for impressionable kids and their parents… but that is improving
*you want top quality local lads… in the last 12 months we’ve had 16 year old Shahar and 14 year old Harvey Owen poached by big spenders… we can’t compete with that and in our situation, neither should we.
*like any line of business… those bigger fish who want your talent will often offer more than you might get by staying out. We lose some (Shahar/Owen), we win some (Ballard-Matthews/Benjamin) etc

Things are getting better and every player who is sold or simply goes onto play regularly at pro level helps improve the academy further.

Anyway… whilst this started due to Luke Cundle’s impending sale… we’re massively off topic now (sorry mods)

a great response and i think required in the current conversation, thanks for adding this. im nowhere near as informed but even on the high level view, we have (or will) make 10m from Giles, Sanderson and Cundle. three players who arguably wont make the level we are at right now. (plus good fees for Owen and Shahar at their age group - regardless of what level they have got to theres even less guarantees at 14 and 16 that they will 'make it'
then we have had one major sale in MGW for 25m plus.
for me this is exactly right now what our academy should be doing, in helping us to be self sustainable and also give us some wiggle room for FFP. coupled with a better recruiting strategy at senior level it can only be beneficial.
plus Bueno who is now in the first team squad you could argue would be at least a 10m sale if needed.

then hopefully we get to a point when the better ones arent picked earlier, or the intake becomes better overall and they supplement the first team a little more.

 

[hollo]

That’s a legacy from having Scott Sellars as head of academy and then DoF. he had close connections to a lot of City players he had recruited there who then didn’t make it at City. Moulden, Hodge, Hesketh and a few others came that way. They are all similar generation and moved when they knew they were being overtaken at that Academy ( some through injury ). City could place them elsewhere because they were that good.

the ones that did make it at City ( and a few who moved elsewhere ) are currently populating every England age group squad. Cole Palmer, James Trafford, Tommy Doyle, James McAtee, Rico Lewis, Taylor Harwood Bellis, Phil Foden, Josh Wilson-Esbrand, and I’m sure there are more, but those have all played U21 recently. Three have made first team appearances already. Two others have trained with the first team. The rest of the England squads tend to come in numbers from Liverpool, Chelsea, Villa and a few from some of the other top academies. At 19 these players should be knocking on the door of Championship clubs and by 21 they should be starting in the Champ and Prem, or abroad in a top league

Wolves best Academy players are lucky to be getting Championship appearances at 22, 23, and to get them to that stage requires years of hard work. The top academies are hoovering up top English talent with big contracts.You know when an English born player has worked out their ceiling, they opt for Scotland,, Wales, Ireland, NI or Jamaica at senior level aged 19 or 20. They know by then they aren’t going to make the England first team.

MGW is the only homegrown player we’ve had any where near this level since Lescott. The club knew that, which is why he made his first team debut at 16, England knew it, he was part of the World Cup winners at 17, Forest knew it, which is why they paid handsomely, Nuno knew it which is why he was so hard on him and why he is now club captain at Forest, and most importantly of all, Morgan knew it. He always expects more of himself (unlike multiple other talented kids) so he comes across a bit ‘up himself’.

Morgan knows that Wolves gave him that opportunity, but he moved for the market price when it was right for him.
Cundle will do the same, but is unlikely to attract the same offers ( even though he is a very tidy and very professional player ). Hopefully we will have a sell-on. The Academy does an excellent job with necessarily limited resources. It cannot compete with Manchester City on facilities and with the very top ‘global’ talents, but a career in the championship is a major draw for many good young players and not to be sniffed at.

Great post mate.

 

[Plovdiv Wolf]

Nice if we had our young player, need to be good enough to help us

 

[loppers86]

Great post mate.

agreed

 

[Loojay]

I actually love the mix when everyone is in a good mood. Actual constructive discussion and insightful posts. Long may it continue

Cue Mutchy saying "back to transfers please!"

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Not sure about playing for his country but I for one would pick him ahead of Dan "Oooh, is that a cross coming over? I'd better duck out of the way" Bailey.

Dan Bentley?

There’s an awful lot of backing for Moulden who at 22 (yes young for a keeper) has yet to play a single game in the football league. Bentley is what he is, a reserve goalkeeper but he is one with 400 professional games under his belt.

Mile End talking about Moulden playing for England is just ludicrous, there’s probably at least 10 goalkeepers younger than him in front of him and at least another 20 in the 20-25 age group above him.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Dan Bentley?

There’s an awful lot of backing for Moulden who at 22 (yes young for a keeper) has yet to play a single game in the football league. Bentley is what he is, a reserve goalkeeper but he is one with 400 professional games under his belt.

Mile End talking about Moulden playing for England is just ludicrous, there’s probably at least 10 goalkeepers younger than him in front of him and at least another 20 in the 20-25 age group above him.

Especially given ramsdale is only 25, you then have pope, and the lad at burnley

 

[wolfslair]

Awesome post.
This is the attitude that will attract more prospects to our club.

Exactly, players want to see a pathway to professional football. not known many an Academy players be upset they have a career as a professional adult that wasn’t at the academy club. They are always just thankful they got a chance to be in the shop window to make a dream real.

So the more prospects we get playing pro from the academy, then the higher the league they go to if not with us, the better proposition we are to kids and their parents.

Means yeah we make money and that helps FFP, but we also get more talent and better talent to potentially make it at the club if they are good enough.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

Indeed. We need a proper number 2 goalkeeper.

Look at how Ruddy got slated by so many on here . Lets face it we just cant win.

 

[wolfslair]

Especially given ramsdale is only 25, you then have pope, and the lad at burnley

Agree up to the lad from Burnley.

Trafford isn’t good enough to be a prem number one right now, especially for the fee and crazy terms of his transfer. He has potential, but he isn’t ready yet

 

[fleck1]

Young English players from all over the country are mopped up by the big boys, doesn't matter how hard we scout our own area. Like the transfer market we are almost trying to spot the gems that have been missed, the recourses the Utd's, cities and Chelsea's can throw at it all over the world let alone the UK are massive. Especially with English players being a premium and the homegrown rules later on. Cundle has found himself on the bench at Plymouth, he's a neat and tidy footballer and the same with Hodge but realistically they are around the same age as Gomes, Doyle and Traore but well behind them three. I think they will go on to have solid football league careers, with Doyle having come in for less than £5m I think a couple of mill and a sell on is about right for Cundle. We have a tendancy to over rate our own when they come through, some wanted Lembikisa to stay and challenge Semedo this season, while Rotherham fans want us to come take him back.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

Really??

Wolves boss gives West Ham huge encouragement over Kilman deal

Hammers being heavily linked and Gary O'Neil has made a big admission...

www.hammers.news

 

[Northampton_wolf]

https://x.com/bulinewsdotcom/status/1743210863216009484?s=20

 

[wolvesaywe]

Really??

Wolves boss gives West Ham huge encouragement over Kilman deal

Hammers being heavily linked and Gary O'Neil has made a big admission...

www.hammers.news

Talk about crafting a story out of absolutely nothing

Said it many times but unless a link is posted from either Percy or Romano I don't bother clicking on it as it's 99.9% absolute *******s

 

[Bill McCai]

Berater bestätigt: Sasa Kalajdzic kurz vor Wechsel zu Eintracht Frankfurt

Eintracht Frankfurt steht kurz vor der Verpflichtung von Mittelstürmer Sasa Kalajdzic. Der Österreicher ist am Abend noch im Einsatz, dann ist er als Soforthilfe eingeplant. Er soll nicht die einzige Verstärkung bleiben.

www.hessenschau.de

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

By why sell nw.....what's the point for 2m.....

The £2m this year might allow us to sign the number 9 we're looking in this window rather than the summer.

£2m of profit would fund the amortisation cost a £20m signing for 5-6 months left of this financial year.

 

[Superted]

97% of players who come through top academies never play a minute of top-flight football​

70% are not even handed a professional contract at a Premier League or English Football League club​

For Wolves to be producing a Premier league squad player every couple of years isn't realistic.
Someone like a MGW is a once a generation thing and we managed to F that one up.
even that list of players the West Midlands has generated over the past 15 years population 6 million? isn't that impressive.

It's the same as suggesting that every university graduate in the UK should end up running a FTSE 100 company. Most university graduates don't even get a job, never mind get having the talent, attitude and opportunity to become a global CEO or similar. I can't believe it's any different with football academies.

 

[SquaddieWolf]

https://x.com/bulinewsdotcom/status/1743210863216009484?s=20

Does that mean we are close to signing a replacement then?

 

[JOSWolf]

Striker must be close to joining us if sasa is being allowed to go.

 

[lets all have a disco]

The £2m this year might allow us to sign the number 9 we're looking in this window rather than the summer.

£2m of profit would fund the amortisation cost a £20m signing for 5-6 months left of this financial year.

Yes I get all that ....said it was about FFP.......if that's happens I understand it ...sort off...

But still think Cundle has more potential than 2m.....that's all .

 

[Golden_Wolf]

Striker must be close to joining us if sasa is being allowed to go.

You'd certainly hope so.

 

[Bill McCai]

I wonder if it will be Rafiu Durosinmi

 

[NothingButNeto]

Berater bestätigt: Sasa Kalajdzic kurz vor Wechsel zu Eintracht Frankfurt

Eintracht Frankfurt steht kurz vor der Verpflichtung von Mittelstürmer Sasa Kalajdzic. Der Österreicher ist am Abend noch im Einsatz, dann ist er als Soforthilfe eingeplant. Er soll nicht die einzige Verstärkung bleiben.

www.hessenschau.de

This article seems pretty confident that Sasa will be heading to Frankfurt before their next game against Leipzig - that is 8 days away.

Hopefully that means Wolves have their striker lined up too.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Striker must be close to joining us if sasa is being allowed to go.

I think it maybe Hugo Ekitike...loan option I reckon....think they are just getting the FFP, finance in order to sort the deal.....be surprised with Mendes association with PSG if we are not near the front of the que...

Saza , Fabio , Cundle etc are all part of the process with finances..

 

[StaffordWolf]

I think it maybe Hugo Ekitike...loan option I reckon....think they are just getting the FFP, finance in order to sort the deal.....be surprised with Mendes association with PSG if we are not near the front of the que...

Saza , Fabio , Cundle etc are all part of the process with finances..

I think he'd be excellent with our current forwards, still young too.