Brentford Verdict

[Fenrir_]

Let me ask you, and everybody else btw……..and this may not be easy to answer. I myself have no idea .

Apart from our GA stats, are Wolves any more porous than any other team between, eg, 8th and 15th?

Other mid level clubs generally seem to be more disciplined…….opinions anyone.

GA stats are kind of important! We were conceding 1.7 goals per game before Chelsea, and that ends up getting you relegated, maybe not the first season you do it but you carry on and it'll bite you. We're  just safe according to the statistical metrics, we're outperforming our xG, xGA and xPTS. Plenty for O'Neil to improve on, and I'd imagine conceding less is the first and best place to start

 

[VancouverWolf]

I think we're more of a team, but not a better one. Neves would improve this team, make no mistake. What we'd got to though is everyone in the team would take the easy pass to Neves and let him dictate, so people wouldn't take responsibility. Now, no Neves, no safe go-to, so take some responsibility yourself and some players have come out of their shells and are looking better for it. But Neves would still improve this team

Neves played too far back but was priceless for promotion and also to help establish the club in the PL.
However, he lacked enough attacking ‘drive’.

 

[Stingray II]

In hindsight, wondering if our players had been prepared for the Collins mistake?

I just back watched back the second goal. The second Collins begins to turn towards his keeper, Hwang immediately starts sprinting toward the goal anticipating that the back-pass will happen.

 

[MotorWoden]

Personally I think Dawson has been mostly a car crash this season, a couple of good performances aside he's shown a significant drop off from the player we signed nearly a year ago - in my opinion

We do commit more players forward though, which to be fair we needed to. It's up to O'Neil to find the balance to make us as effective as possible

I wouldn't say he has been a car crash exactly but I said on another thread he has been far more erratic than you want your experienced mainstay centre half to be. He is overrated in my opinion.

 

[SA Wolf]

Four goals away from home, a win in the capital, vindication that selling Collins and keeping Kilman were the right calls, Hwang getting to double figures for the season and a Neto return. What's not to like!

 

[brianm]

Interesting point about Dawson’s performance……imo , still seems to turn in a stellar performance.



Let me ask you, and everybody else btw……..and this may not be easy to answer. I myself have no idea .

Apart from our GA stats, are Wolves any more porous than any other team between, eg, 8th and 15th?

Other mid level clubs generally seem to be more disciplined…….opinions anyone.

8. Newcastle - that's a better squad than Wolves. They are better defensively, and it's largely through a combination of a very energetic press and tighter positional play. And ****housery. So much ****housery.
9. Brighton - Same GA as Wolves. They have some similar ideas in terms of structure, but I think it's safe to say RDZ is further along than GON in his installation. You can see how their squad being depleted somewhat has hurt them this year along with injuries as they have fallen off from a gangbusters start. I'm not sure if they are more disciplined, but they understand their structure better.
10. Chelsea - A very expensive squad that does a whole lot of dumb stuff. I think Poch is more defensive generally in terms of tactics. Keeps his midfielders on a tighter leash. I don't think their press is too good.
11. Wolves - It's obvious some structural stuff is still being installed properly, and that the tactics are very reliant on that structure or those structures. When it's off, it can be pretty off. When it's on, the team look very competitive with anyone.
12. Bournemouth - Tifo did a great video on Iraola's tactics, but the short answer is they have a very ambitious, risky press that gives teams loads of problems when it works and looks awful when it gets broken through. They have been in great form lately...I suspect things will turn in February once opposing managers have had more time to craft ideas to hurt them for their risky setup.
13. Fulham - Silva is an attacking manager. Leno is sooooo important for them, because they are pretty porous. Very reliant on a great player in Palhinha for me.
14. Brentford - Normally much more solid than what we just saw defensively. I think they are typically pretty good at playing a game on their terms with awkward diagonals and tremendous set pieces. More rigid structurally, I think?
15. Palace - Definitely more conservative than Wolves, for all the good it's doing them.
16. Forest - It's Nuno. They are awful defensively right now, but who knows what they will look like once he has bedded in a bit.
17. Everton - Dyche sets his team up very solidly, and I think Pickford is a good keeper. Definitely less porous than Wolves (and without their point deduction they are much higher up this list).

 

[VancouverWolf]

8. Newcastle - that's a better squad than Wolves. They are better defensively, and it's largely through a combination of a very energetic press and tighter positional play. And ****housery. So much ****housery.
9. Brighton - Same GA as Wolves. They have some similar ideas in terms of structure, but I think it's safe to say RDZ is further along than GON in his installation. You can see how their squad being depleted somewhat has hurt them this year along with injuries as they have fallen off from a gangbusters start. I'm not sure if they are more disciplined, but they understand their structure better.
10. Chelsea - A very expensive squad that does a whole lot of dumb stuff. I think Poch is more defensive generally in terms of tactics. Keeps his midfielders on a tighter leash. I don't think their press is too good.
11. Wolves - It's obvious some structural stuff is still being installed properly, and that the tactics are very reliant on that structure or those structures. When it's off, it can be pretty off. When it's on, the team look very competitive with anyone.
12. Bournemouth - Tifo did a great video on Iraola's tactics, but the short answer is they have a very ambitious, risky press that gives teams loads of problems when it works and looks awful when it gets broken through. They have been in great form lately...I suspect things will turn in February once opposing managers have had more time to craft ideas to hurt them for their risky setup.
13. Fulham - Silva is an attacking manager. Leno is sooooo important for them, because they are pretty porous. Very reliant on a great player in Palhinha for me.
14. Brentford - Normally much more solid than what we just saw defensively. I think they are typically pretty good at playing a game on their terms with awkward diagonals and tremendous set pieces. More rigid structurally, I think?
15. Palace - Definitely more conservative than Wolves, for all the good it's doing them.
16. Forest - It's Nuno. They are awful defensively right now, but who knows what they will look like once he has bedded in a bit.
17. Everton - Dyche sets his team up very solidly, and I think Pickford is a good keeper. Definitely less porous than Wolves (and without their point deduction they are much higher up this list).

Thx……food for thought.

 

[Mark Rankines Lovechild]

I wouldn't say he has been a car crash exactly but I said on another thread he has been far more erratic than you want your experienced mainstay centre half to be. He is overrated in my opinion.

Couldn't agree less

 

[sc91]

Nice enjoyable watch that was!

Makes you wonder if a few VAR decisions had gone the correct way we would be sat between up amongst Europe.

Getting weirdly back to the point where other teams are both complimentary and fearing playing Wolves. Credit to GON!

 

[Dingle Chris]

Great performance, Gomez MOM for me he was everywhere and played a couple of lovely though balls.

 

[SA Wolf]

Great performance, Gomez MOM for me he was everywhere and played a couple of lovely though balls.

Was she in the Addams Family?

As for Joao Gomes, he had a great game, but maybe ran out of steam (understandably so), towards the end of the match.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Think you’ll find we scored 4 away at Swansea under the clipboard!

(Drew 4-4 after being 4-1 down and already relegated)

I am sure you are correct. I blanked out that season after we lost 1-5 to the ****e.

 

[Slothmonkey]

First half could see our game plan. I said to the wife, I have never seen us play so many balls over the top. It was a tactic that seemed to work well. Losing Hwang just before half time put pay to that. Like Lemina I was also very annoyed about the 2nd half and more so the ball retention. We seem to be our own worst enemy at times by not looking after the ball.

Nouri was very good at the back post 2nd half and covered there crosses well. Scared me when Doc came on as I thoughy Semedo did well again against Potter.

As a team to come out of the last 2 games with 6 points, after a lot suffered from the virus, is very good.

Bueno for me looked good after he settled. Defended well, looked aggressive in the tackle.

Lemina and Gomes again very good. Nouri is just class. Name me another left back who does what he does?

Hwang Clinical. Cunha selfless last night, looked shattered, still ran for the team.

To come away with a 4-1 win is very positive. Let's hope its not an anomaly away from home and we can start to put better performances in. Another tough game Saturday against Everton. Then maybe some of them will get a rest before Brighton on the 22nd.

 

[waveney wolf]

Not seen us press like that for a while , and Gary knew with only 2 days rest it wouldn't last , so backed off , secured the win ...

 

[Lisas Husband]

i assume not the tom cruise version

You assume correctly.
He called me a bad word that begins with C. I wasn't toasted anywhere near enough to make it an issue.

 

[clivewolves]

I didn't think there was much between the two teams other than us being clinical with our chances, which is the most important bit. Collins having the same brain farts that he used to have for us was a massive help. I'm happy for the away fans. They've had some miserable trips in recent times so it was a happy night for them. They sounded loud on the telly. Overall just nice to watch a good 10 or so minutes of the end of a Wolves match without any worries.

The Man of the Match for me was Joao Gomes. His usual competitive performance but with some terrific forward passes that opened up the Brentford defence on occasions.

 

[wolfgar]

Out in Brazil at the moment, so was unable to see the game and ended up following on here. Fantastic result and so happy to be so completely wrong about GON and Hwang and right about Collins being something of a donkey.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

An excellent victory. Took our chances and defended resolutely. To score 4 goals away from home in this league takes some doing, even for the likes of Manchester City, so it was a night to savour. It was also nice to hear Thomas Frank being complimentary about Wolves.

 

[greco wolf]

Bizarre game but chuffed for the fans that made the trip and who were absolutely immense throughout!

Still not top half though ffs!

Onwards and upwards…

Atmosphere was unbelievable at the game. I’m serious in that I don’t think Brentford even sang one song. Never heard a ground so quiet

 

[JadeWolf]

Agree with the comments on the away end, as good as it’s been in ages. Helped that we were playing attacking football and scoring goals, but that period second half when Brentford were throwing pressure at the lads, the fans carried them through.

 

[BillyBoots]

And to think if we hadn't been robbed of 7 points we'd be 6th above Man u

 

[WinchWolf]

Was an enjoyable watch. Great to see more through balls behind the defence for Hwang to run onto.

I think we are more porous at the back because with my eyes it looks like when we are in possession that toti plays more as a left back with ait-nouri playing further forward in midfield.

It was also good to see Sa resort to kicking long to avoid the Brentford press.

Finishes by Hwang were excellent.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Was an enjoyable watch. Great to see more through balls behind the defence for Hwang to run onto.

I think we are more porous at the back because with my eyes it looks like when we are in possession that toti plays more as a left back with ait-nouri playing further forward in midfield.

It was also good to see Sa resort to kicking long to avoid the Brentford press.

Finishes by Hwang were excellent.

We are 4-4-2 have been for months....I keep saying it but people disagree ...yes rayan gets back and helps at times but he is very much a left midfielder.....when O'Neil said he didn't change the formation at west ham , he was right ...he just used bellegarde instead of Rayan or Bueno ..

If people still don't get it....watch the warm up Shaun Derry does with the defence....it's a 4 .....Rayan is nowhere to be seen.....Toti is very much a left back.....the problem against west ham was he didn't sit , just kept bombing forward....

 

[Kebab Warrior]

I am not miserable, but I am realistic. You can see when you read through this thread the ones that see the game for what it is and the ones that see the result for what it is. For me the result and the performance are two separate things and one does not always follow from the other. I am happy to win, happy to celebrate some goals but as others have said we have played better and lost... We are not going to get handed two goals in most games. The penalty area ping pong isn't going to end up in Sa's hands every week. And top flight players don't keep missing one on ones like they did for Chelsea.

We need to defend much better than we are at the moment and be more composed at the back, we want a striker and a winger yet we are scoring regularly. We never keep a clean sheet though, even though we have two excellent defensive midfielders. Sort that out and we are in the top six.

We have two excellent destroyers in CM but we can’t keep the ball. We tackle and try and hit a counter immediately. But very often we lose it again straight away following the counter press and give the opposition a free run at the defence.
It turns into a game of basketball. Someone last night said it was like watching kids football and they were right. Great fun, lots of goals, but no control.
Sometimes somebody has to put a foot on it.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Agree with the comments on the away end, as good as it’s been in ages. Helped that we were playing attacking football and scoring goals, but that period second half when Brentford were throwing pressure at the lads, the fans carried them through.

3-1 up….

Need to do that at 1-0 down

 

[North West Wanderer]

We are 4-4-2 have been for months....I keep saying it but people disagree ...yes rayan gets back and helps at times but he is very much a left midfielder.....when O'Neil said he didn't change the formation at west ham , he was right ...he just used bellegarde instead of Rayan or Bueno ..

If people still don't get it....watch the warm up Shaun Derry does with the defence....it's a 4 .....Rayan is nowhere to be seen.....Toti is very much a left back.....the problem against west ham was he didn't sit , just kept bombing forward....

i think it’s primarily a back 4, but out of possession it’s clearly a 5 at times too.
important to be able to be flexible.

 

[Wolf in Kenilworth]

We are 4-4-2 have been for months....I keep saying it but people disagree ...yes rayan gets back and helps at times but he is very much a left midfielder.....when O'Neil said he didn't change the formation at west ham , he was right ...he just used bellegarde instead of Rayan or Bueno ..

If people still don't get it....watch the warm up Shaun Derry does with the defence....it's a 4 .....Rayan is nowhere to be seen.....Toti is very much a left back.....the problem against west ham was he didn't sit , just kept bombing forward....

Agree with this. We’re fluid in the formation though so it does change depending on the state of play.

Vs West Ham and Forest it showed just how important RAN is to us. Toti was lost without him and it coincided with 2 poor performances.

 

[lets all have a disco]

i think it’s primarily a back 4, but out of possession it’s clearly a 5 at times too.
important to be able to be flexible.

Rayan helps out, that's what left midfielders do ...

If ya don't believe me watch the warm....the 4 are drilled as a 4......Rayan or whoever plays there is nowhere to be seen....they are with the attacking players....

 

[MotorWoden]

Couldn't agree less

Well that is fair enough. We do seem to be conceding goals every game though.

 

[MickHolmesFanClub]

The ideal away performance.

A few hairy moments at the back but we largely soaked up what Brentford threw at us and were so clinical on the break.

I was worried pre-game about us feeling the effects of Sunday's efforts but fair play to the boys for the energy they showed. Young Gomes in midfield was, once more, everywhere and probably shaded MOTM for me (ahead of Kilman and Lemina) but Sarabia showed touches of real quality on the ball and Hwang and Cunha caused them lots of problems up top.

Yes, they made a couple of howlers for two of the goals but we were able to take advantage and it's not often you can say that in recent seasons.

At least we now know what the "add-ons" included in the Collins sale were! And to think some of our fans wanted us to sell Kilman instead of him!

 

[thommo1984]

We were definitely a bit lucky to only concede the one goal in the first half but thought we were much more solid second half.

Santi looks a bit erratic on the ball but thought he grew into the game and we didn’t give up much at all. Was a really decent defensive performance, all things considered.

 

[sc91]

3-1 up….

Need to do that at 1-0 down

You seem like a good bloke but you don't half go out your way to find something to moan about.

 

[lets all have a disco]

We were definitely a bit lucky to only concede the one goal in the first half but thought we were much more solid second half.

Santi looks a bit erratic on the ball but thought he grew into the game and we didn’t give up much at all. Was a really decent defensive performance, all things considered.

3-5 was probably a fair score ....

 

[North West Wanderer]

Rayan helps out, that's what left midfielders do ...

If ya don't believe me watch the warm....the 4 are drilled as a 4......Rayan or whoever plays there is nowhere to be seen....they are with the attacking players....

I haven't said I don't believe you, and I agree with you.

I also believe we change shape as required, and having RAN there helps with that.

 

[Wolves in Limerick]

As I don't see the matches but monitor X (Liam Keen and Nathan Judah); BBC website and Molineux Mix to keep in touch with the games, I would like to ask two questions.

1) Reviews of Bueno's performance were mixed, some suggesting he was poor, others saying he grew into the game and had an excellent second half. Should he play against Everton and if so who should be dropped?

2) Though Doc's introduction was greeted at the time with expressions of concern by fans and he appears to have made an early error, few comments appeared in the post match comments about his overall performance. Tring, who I believe to be a fair and accurate assessor of players performance gave Doc a 6 and was surprised at his introduction. Some one else commented he appeared to be more match fit, suggesting perhaps a better performance than expected. A friend of mine who attends Irish games has suggested that he is finished as an international player, yet GON persists in using him as a sub and has expressed his unhappiness at not being able to give him more game time. My thoughts at the time at Docs introduction, was less about his defensive capabilities and more that he was a goal threat. Anyone care to comment?

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

As I don't see the matches but monitor X (Liam Keen and Nathan Judah); BBC website and Molineux Mix to keep in touch with the games, I would like to ask two questions.

1) Reviews of Bueno's performance were mixed, some suggesting he was poor, others saying he grew into the game and had an excellent second half. Should he play against Everton and if so who should be dropped?

2) Though Doc's introduction was greeted at the time with expressions of concern by fans and he appears to have made an early error, few comments appeared in the post match comments about his overall performance. Tring, who I believe to be a fair and accurate assessor of players performance gave Doc a 6 and was surprised at his introduction. Some one else commented he appeared to be more match fit, suggesting perhaps a better performance than expected. A friend of mine who attends Irish games has suggested that he is finished as an international player, yet GON persists in using him as a sub and has expressed his unhappiness at not being able to give him more game time. My thoughts at the time at Docs introduction, was less about his defensive capabilities and more that he was a goal threat. Anyone care to comment?

Doc actually didn’t do that bad. He shored things up like you would expect an experienced pro to do so. Okay 1/2 times he got beat but was never in danger of conceding goal. Some people don’t like him and I really don’t get it. He helps us see games out these days offers us that calm head like against Chelsea. It’s important to keep Semedo out of the red zone

 

[thommo1984]

1) Reviews of Bueno's performance were mixed, some suggesting he was poor, others saying he grew into the game and had an excellent second half. Should he play against Everton and if so who should be dropped?

Definitely had a dodgy opening 10 minutes and him and Kilman looked very shaky as a pair but won a lot of ball second half. Wouldn’t describe it was excellent but he was definitely “fine”.

 

[Mark Rankines Lovechild]

Well that is fair enough. We do seem to be conceding goals every game though.

I don't disagree with that but I cant put many down to Dawson and certainly not glaring individual mistakes. Chelsea, Kilman stood and watched them score, then we have Semedo who switches off / seemingly has an issue jumping at the back post post to defend headers. Toti, and Bueno have also made mistakes, not to mention notable blunders from both of our keepers.

Personally I see it more as a collective failure and, in my view Dawson is less (or certainly no more) culpable than any of his colleagues.

 

[thommo1984]

Doc actually didn’t do that bad. He shored things up like you would expect an experienced pro to do so. Okay 1/2 times he got beat but was never in danger of conceding goal. Some people don’t like him and I really don’t get it. He helps us see games out these days offers us that calm head like against Chelsea. It’s important to keep Semedo out of the red zone

…and on the fitness thing, he still looks a bit unfit/overweight to me but looked like he was getting rinsed by the fitness team after the match during Max’s interview.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

…and on the fitness thing, he still looks a bit unfit/overweight to me but looked like he was getting rinsed by the fitness team after the match during Max’s interview.

He’s never been one for running anywhere fast though has he?? Wouldn’t say he’s unfit or overweight otherwise he wouldn’t make the bench. Probably isn’t fit enough to start and finish a game. However we must realise he’s not 25 anymore. His game has never been about pace. He offers us some experience and that’s about it. Brentford tested him what 1/2 times nothing really of note. Made one balls up early doors came to nothing. To me Kilman makes a balls up most games nobody seems to give him much stick for it. Kilman probably runs at the same speed as doc also. Like wading through treacle which is fine if you have other players to balance it.