Corrupt, bent, bias ?

[WolfLing]

Interestingly a mate was at uni with Josh Smith and another official in the lower leagues, my mates an Arsenal fan so no real bias on the decision but wanted to call them out on the terrible decision Saturday.

Response yesterday -

"we've had clarification on the handball law today after Josh yesterday... He was right. If his hand was already in the unnatural position and making his body larger when the deflection happened, then handball is given"

Makes absolutely no sense to me, surely the natural position changes dependant on the action you are taking? Gomes lunged in with his foot to block the ball so arms are in a natural position for that action? His arms are nowhere near the ball or the goal without a wicked deflection that's impossible to get out of the way of.

Exactly.

If a ball is smashed at your face, a natural position is to put your hands up to protect your face. If lunging like Gomes does, your arm naturally goes up in the air to keep your balance.

If they're going to use this 'natural position' justification, they need to study different arm positions for each action, to see what's natural and what isn't!

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Ah yes, the PGMOL are out to get a small provincial club.

They're incompetent, that is it.

Ah yes, the “incompetent” argument. Funny how they are all incompetent and all their incompetence in our games goes against us. When was the last time an opposition team got an apology from Howard Webb after playing us?

 

[lobodelsur]

I personally think Shi ... has been infiltrated into our society masquerading as a football Chairman. I saw through him straight away, football Chairman my ****.

At last we can agree on something.

 

[Timberwolf]

I posted this a while back and I got the same responses you will get.

Monkey see, monkey do…

 

[Spitfire]

Just posted this on the other thread, but just to be clear, from The Athletic this is the crucial, and completely bizarre paragraph. One of the most disturbing things I've ever read (and I've read The Wasp Factory).

Guidance from PGMOL at the weekend said Gomes was penalised because Smith and VAR John Brooks deemed he had not “played” the ball with his leg but had “deflected” the cross from Issa Kabore onto his hand, thus rendering the change of trajectory irrelevant.

I've read this on both threads and I still don't understand it .

 

[Sussex Wolf]

For those who haven’t read it, the Athletic article on the Luton game, and our persistent “bad luck” with officials. Apparently Wolves have now given up getting justice after a stream of complaints and apologies with no sign of an improvement in the bias against us.

Wolves have reached the point of despair with referees' inexplicable decisions

Wolves may have been terrible against Luton but they ought to have left with victory, but for a(nother) controversial refereeing call

theathletic.com

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I've read this on both threads and I still don't understand it .

Me neither. I mean I could be being thick (certainly not unknown), but it seems like complete nonsense. The best Dermot Gallagher could do was say 'his hand was really high' as if they'd now categorised possible positions as 'natural', 'unnatural' and 'very unnatural'.

 

[Lobo de Ouro]

Yeah, OK, and how about the blatant penalty that Newcastle should have had? The only conclusion you can draw is that the officials don't know what they are doing. But there's no evidence of bias there, just evidence of sheer incompetence.

You can't pick out individual instances to support or disprove bias. It's an overall thing. It may not be intentional... and it may only be a 1% swing between different clubs - but it adds up.

All refs aren't bent, the same way all police aren't racists. But there is bias within refereeing the same as there is institutional racism within the police.

The very clearest of that bias is shown in how they treat managers being booked. I've seen Pep, Klopp, and Ten Hag going absolutely ****ing ballistic at the fourth officials or refs, and not being booked, while O Neil got booked for throwing his hands in the air. Also in players receiving bookings for stopping free kicks or throw ins... seen a lot get booked, but Maddison... Barnes, Trippier to name a few England squad players, have all got away with it.

It's inconsistency that cannot be explained away by incompetence. Only by (intentional or not) bias.

 

[arctic rime]

It's time we the fans turned up the heat on these charlatans

 

[Pagey]

I think in the modern game even though he's won the ball, the ref will have decided that he went into the tackle with excessive force. 1980 - great tackle, 2023 - foul

Yeah your probably right, God I feel old but I miss some parts of the 80s. Not all rules have improved the matchday experience for the fan.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Yeah your probably right, God I feel old but I miss some parts of the 80s. Not all rules have improved the matchday experience for the fan.

Yes, to be fair that's just how he used to tackle for us and I absolutely loved it!

 

[Big Saft Kid]

You can't pick out individual instances to support or disprove bias. It's an overall thing. It may not be intentional... and it may only be a 1% swing between different clubs - but it adds up.

All refs aren't bent, the same way all police aren't racists. But there is bias within refereeing the same as there is institutional racism within the police.

The very clearest of that bias is shown in how they treat managers being booked. I've seen Pep, Klopp, and Ten Hag going absolutely ****ing ballistic at the fourth officials or refs, and not being booked, while O Neil got booked for throwing his hands in the air. Also in players receiving bookings for stopping free kicks or throw ins... seen a lot get booked, but Maddison... Barnes, Trippier to name a few England squad players, have all got away with it.

It's inconsistency that cannot be explained away by incompetence. Only by (intentional or not) bias.

You are taking my comment totally out of context. In this instance I was commenting on how one particular game was incompetently reffed. If you read my comments on the other thread, I am in total agreement with what you say. I think there is a subliminal bias against Wolves in particular, on top of the general incompetence, and that's because of the cosy club mentality of PGMOL, whose members don't like the way we have criticised them.

 

[old wittonian]

Just posted this on the other thread, but just to be clear, from The Athletic this is the crucial, and completely bizarre paragraph. One of the most disturbing things I've ever read (and I've read The Wasp Factory).

Guidance from PGMOL at the weekend said Gomes was penalised because Smith and VAR John Brooks deemed he had not “played” the ball with his leg but had “deflected” the cross from Issa Kabore onto his hand, thus rendering the change of trajectory irrelevant.

They're just making up an excuse to avoid apologising again.
It signifies the ref must have a mind that can see, absorb and come to a decision in milli seconds. Absolute *******s.

 

[SmokeyGB]

I don't think it's corruption at PAGMOL - I just believe that they are **** at their jobs and don't or fully understand when or how to apply the rule set.
The fact Wolves are creating these chances or against us, i'm sure other clubs are the same but we dont watch it all the time.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I don't think it's corruption at PAGMOL - I just believe that they are **** at their jobs and don't or fully understand when or how to apply the rule set.
The fact Wolves are creating these chances or against us, i'm sure other clubs are the same but we dont watch it all the time.

I am sure Wolves are not the only club on the receiving end. But what can’t be explained away, is that while we have a long list of apologies and other incidents deserving apologies, I’m struggling to remember any apologies being given to clubs we’ve played. If it were just random incompetence, then after the number of apologies we’ve had, surely there would have been a few issued to clubs playing us too? A few weird decisions of note in our favour? The longer this imbalance goes on, the harder it gets to accept that it’s just incompetence rather than bias or worse.

 

[old wittonian]

I am sure Wolves are not the only club on the receiving end. But what can’t be explained away, is that while we have a long list of apologies and other incidents deserving apologies, I’m struggling to remember any apologies being given to clubs we’ve played. If it were just random incompetence, then after the number of apologies we’ve had, surely there would have been a few issued to clubs playing us too? A few weird decisions of note in our favour? The longer this imbalance goes on, the harder it gets to accept that it’s just incompetence rather than bias or worse.

And they continually pontificate that it will even itself out over the season.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I know we could go round this forever (and probably will) there are other ones where people will be aggrieved and it is only league (so doesn't include the bad decisions in both Cups), but this was one objective summary of the actual apologies issued last PL season.

https://www.squawka.com/en/premier-league-table-without-pgmol-errors/

 

[Contrarian]

The Mix is going completely bonkers now. Earlier someone suggested Fosun wanted out because HS2was not going to be built, now it's decisions are going against us because we have Chinese owners? I personally think Shi is a Chinese Government secret agent hell bent on overthrowing the West and he has been infiltrated into our society masquerading as a football Chairman. I saw through him straight away, football Chairman my ****.

And he'd have gotten away with it if it wasn't for us pesky kids!

I always said that Gary O'Neill is Bruno Lage in a mask. They've never been seen in the same room together. Just putting it out there....gotta keep an open mind.

 

[Jefe]

Guidance from PGMOL at the weekend said Gomes was penalised because Smith and VAR John Brooks deemed he had not “played” the ball with his leg but had “deflected” the cross from Issa Kabore onto his hand, thus rendering the change of trajectory irrelevant.

Ha ha - they're making this up as they go along. Anything to avoid the embarrasment of issuing yet another apology. By this 'logic' Gomes could willfully flick the ball up with his thigh onto his hand and it wouldn't be given? I think not. The law is an ass - or is applied by asses whenever Wolves are in town.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

Not wanting to downplay how poor the performances have mostly been this season (and the last one as well) but I have never, ever known such a run of poor refereeing decisions that materially affect the result of the match go so consistently against one team.

Off the top of my head I can think of

Last night v Ipswich. Marginal call at best but the Lino couldn't wait to get his flag up. Haven't seen many replays but all the pundits on Sky agreed that it was on-side and would have been given by VAR. Prevents an equaliser and a penalty shootout

Penalty v Luton - absolute shocker. If that is hand ball then I would be coaching my players to forget trying to pass to a team mate but hit the ball as hard as possible against the opponents arms every time they get in the box. Costs us at least a point and probably 2

Non penalty v Man Utd - not one but TWO of our players get cleaned out by Onana. VAR spends about 5 minutes looking for a plausible excuse for not giving it. Costs us a point

Non penalty v Newcastle - Pope cleans out Raul when it's a clear goal scoring opportunity. Red card and penalty every day of the week. Didn't even get a foul. The game was 1-0 to Newcastle so should have been 1-1 at half time with Newcastle down to 10. Cost us at least a point and probably 3

Disallowed goal v Liverpool - You really couldn't have made that one up. Cost us a 4th round cup tie and a potential cup run

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

I posted this a while back and I got the same responses you will get.

So the PGMOL are in the pocket of the government? Is that what you and Bod are implying?

 

[derbyrameater]

So the PGMOL are in the pocket of the government? Is that what you and Bod are implying?

In the pocket of the system imo.

 

[DasWolf]

Spanish police raiding their referees HQ. I'm sure some very interesting stuff would come out if refs here were investigated.

Brooks in particular has made so many 'mistakes' on VAR that I think you can genuinely say they are indistinguishable from match fixing.

Or put it another way, if I was going to fix matches, I'd probably try the approach on how PGMOL referee matches!

 

[Fenrir_]

Non penalty v Newcastle - Pope cleans out Raul when it's a clear goal scoring opportunity. Red card and penalty every day of the week. Didn't even get a foul. The game was 1-0 to Newcastle so should have been 1-1 at half time with Newcastle down to 10. Cost us at least a point and probably 3

The game was 0-0 at the time of the Pope challenge. Newcastle took the lead after a free kick had been given against Raúl... when he clearly won the ball and it wasn't a foul

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

The game was 0-0 at the time of the Pope challenge. Newcastle took the lead after a free kick had been given against Raúl... when he clearly won the ball and it wasn't a foul

You can count on one hand how many times VAR has worked in our favour

 

[Fenrir_]

You can count on one hand how many times VAR has worked in our favour

And the majority (if not all) were it actually making the right decision. Not sure how many absolute howlers we've had go our way, but the list of them against us is piling up

 

[MasWolf]

Not sure if we’ve had one contentious VAR decision go our way in 3 years?

Yeah, Sa completely took out a Leeds player on the first day of last season. I have no idea why that wasn't given as a pen.

 

[TheConcourse]

Yeah, Sa completely took out a Leeds player on the first day of last season. I have no idea why that wasn't given as a pen.

You’re right. Felt strange in the ground too, totally wiped him out. Similar to Onana!

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

You’re right. Felt strange in the ground too, totally wiped him out. Similar to Onana!

Must of been the same reason huh

 

[goldeneyed]

The Saudis are planning to nick the 'best' officials aren't they? So some new blood might help to refresh the refereeing community....or not.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

In the pocket of the system imo.

The same system, where the government gave Wolves a low interest £99m loan?

 

[derbyrameater]

The same system, where the government gave Wolves a low interest £99m loan?

What's that about, can I have one?

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

What's that about, can I have one?

You can't. But "the system" gave one to Wolves.

The man clearly hates us.

 

[MasWolf]

You’re right. Felt strange in the ground too, totally wiped him out. Similar to Onana!

From memory there have been a few other occasions where VAR has gone in our favour. I'm not suggesting that we haven't been shafted by VAR, because we definitely have; but I just don't agree with the idea that it's calculated against us specifically. Every PL fan feels their team gets a bad time with VAR.

 

[Stourport wolf]

70,000€ a month from their own accounts, given to the the person who chose the officials at Barca matches.The only problem is, it is probably wide spread here, just that Barca were careless in writing down about the payments and not destroying the evidence.

Police search football referee headquarters in Barcelona graft probe

Barca face investigation for suspected ‘active bribery’ as part of a probe into suspected refereeing corruption.

www-aljazeera-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Nige]

Yes the premier league is all 3 Corrupt Bent and bias.. Its a closed shop with its own Refs.
No different to the banking system and the Government. Any one who thinks Otherwise is just zombie mind controlled by media. That fact we have Chinese ownership is another problem for the PL they don't want any of that in their woke world.

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

Both with the many questionable decisions for us and a horlicks of an offside decision for Liverpool today, the answer is simply Corrupt.

 

[Parkfieldswolf]

Well the Liverpool offside today is either right or wrong I can’t see how that can be a matter of opinion from VAR and have got wrong? No lines really quick decision just what the heck is going on?

 

[old wittonian]

The Saudis are planning to nick the 'best' officials aren't they? So some new blood might help to refresh the refereeing community....or not.

They won't be nicking more than a couple then.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Well the Liverpool offside today is either right or wrong I can’t see how that can be a matter of opinion from VAR and have got wrong? No lines really quick decision just what the heck is going on?

Be interested to see later. The most sensible suggestion I've seen is that the lino flagged (wrongly in fact and in that he shouldn't have even if it was just close) and then the ref blew up (probably correctly once the lino has flagged) before the ball went in. So no point in checking the lines. Not seen it yet though (only comical stills!)