Lopetegui

[Jefe]

You are again saying I said something I haven't said. It is completely possible to recognise that Lopetegui is a fraud and not be happy with Jeff. The problem is, as I see it, Lopetegui has had so many controversies in club and international management, that it amazes me that a few of his supporters on here, refuse to blame him once, for any of the problems he has had, during his career.

It was the players fault at Madrid.
He can't be blamed for ****ting on his nation, days before a major tournament.
It was Monchis fault and Lopetegui didn't throw his toys out of the pram.
It was Wolves that broke promises and Lopetegui has done nothing wrong.

This for me is irrational.

"His friend tweeting that he wasn't happy and Wolves have broken promises and he could leave, to me stinks of what he did in his last year at Sevilla. To me it looks like he is putting the club in an almost impossible situation, break FFP, give in to veiled threat, or sack him, of course with a full pay check."

I mean, you did say exactly what I said you said. I can't speak to an "irrational" defence of Lopetegui (I did say on this thread that I would put him at 25% blame), but similarly I cannot imagine the points you made about his other roles tell the whole story either.

 

[The Clock]

"His friend tweeting that he wasn't happy and Wolves have broken promises and he could leave, to me stinks of what he did in his last year at Sevilla. To me it looks like he is putting the club in an almost impossible situation, break FFP, give in to veiled threat, or sack him, of course with a full pay check."

I mean, you did say exactly what I said you said. I can't speak to an "irrational" defence of Lopetegui (I did say on this thread that I would put him at 25% blame), but similarly I cannot imagine the points you made about his other roles tell the whole story either.

What we need is a sin bin

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

"His friend tweeting that he wasn't happy and Wolves have broken promises and he could leave, to me stinks of what he did in his last year at Sevilla. To me it looks like he is putting the club in an almost impossible situation, break FFP, give in to veiled threat, or sack him, of course with a full pay check."

I mean, you did say exactly what I said you said. I can't speak to an "irrational" defence of Lopetegui (I did say on this thread that I would put him at 25% blame), but similarly I cannot imagine the points you made about his other roles tell the whole story either.

Also btw
'****ting on his nation' involved deciding to leave the national job for Real Madrid AFTER the World Cup (not at all unusual for managers to announce they'll leave after a tournament) and then the President of the Spanish Football Federation was a man of such high principle that he decided he needed to be more involved in the process and throwing his toys out like some sort of control freak. Can't quite think of that guy's name just at the moment....

 

[Jefe]

Also btw
'****ting on his nation' involved deciding to leave the national job for Real Madrid AFTER the World Cup (not at all unusual for managers to announce they'll leave after a tournament) and then the President of the Spanish Football Federation was a man of such high principle that he decided he needed to be more involved in the process and throwing his toys out like some sort of control freak. Can't quite think of that guy's name just at the moment....

I best not mention it, lest I lose speaking privileges in this thread as well... but yes, I thought about that point RE: Madrid. Don't know if I am imagining it, but was the info leaked ahead of time? Or Madrid were the ones who broke the news? Either way, Lop probably would've preferred that remained private.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Well, TBF, Wolves were less **** than 7 other clubs. If you extrapolate Lopetegui's PPG, Wolves would have been less **** than 9 other clubs. Not bad I'd say for a coach who struggled to communicate in English in his first season in English football, and had to inherit the soulless, rudderless mess that Lage left him. No doubt we'd have gone from strength to strength had the club done enough transfer wise to keep him on board.

There is significant doubt that we'd have gone from strength to strength if he'd have been backed. Too many weird line-ups and batterings.

 

[Jefe]

There is significant doubt that we'd have gone from strength to strength if he'd have been backed. Too many weird line-ups and batterings.

Not impossible, but I think the 5-0 and 6-0 games were more like a plea / protest. Lop went super high with the full backs and played a high line, which was covered very well in this post. The only thing he did consistently that had me tearing my hair out was playing four central midfielders at the same time, which he stopped eventually.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Not impossible, but I think the 5-0 and 6-0 games were more like a plea / protest. Lop went super high with the full backs and played a high line, which was covered very well in this post. The only thing he did consistently that had me tearing my hair out was playing four central midfielders at the same time, which he stopped eventually.

A manager picking a knowingly poor team for me is as bad as a player refusing to train.
But I don't think he did pick a knowingly poor team; I think he just ****ed it. Even the best managers overcomplicate things sometimes, but for him it seemed to be a weekly thing.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I best not mention it, lest I lose speaking privileges in this thread as well... but yes, I thought about that point RE: Madrid. Don't know if I am imagining it, but was the info leaked ahead of time? Or Madrid were the ones who broke the news? Either way, Lop probably would've preferred that remained private.

As I understand it Real approached Lopetegui, he left Mendes to sort it. Mendes agreed the deal for after the WC and then Real phoned Rubiales (oops) 5 minutes before they announced it publicly. Rubiales could have just said fair enough, go and win the WC and off you go, but decided his ego had been bruised and sacked Lopetegui on the spot. Macho culture

 

[WickedWolfie]

To be fair if he's shopping in Primark he should have been perfect for us.

Given our apparent budget now the Salvation Army charity shop is more our style.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

I think it's quite laughable the loyalty shown by some Wolves fans for Lopetegui just because it suits their stand against the owners. Shame the loyalty and fight for the club wasn't reciprocated. Wolves is who I support not some fly by night with half ***** commitment that wants to put the boot in to further his own career a couple of weeks before the start of the season.

I find it laughable how some fans think JL should have been happy to honour his contract after the owners seemingly lied to him.

JL's problem was with the owners, not the club or the fans.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I find it laughable how some fans think JL should have been happy to honour his contract after the owners seemingly lied to him.

JL's problem was with the owners, not the club or the fans.

My problem is that he got compensated for going when he walked and that he waited to walk rather than just doing it in June.

 

[groundhogwolf]

He must have had a suspicion that we were a basket case when he joined, it will probably take years for this club to trade at a sensible and realistic level.
Sick to death of the boom and bust management approach, almost similar to Sir Jacks style but with larger amounts.

 

[Bill McCai]

He presumably wanted to see if there would be any funds available for transfers as he was led to believe in June (by Hobbs who made the following statement - Sporting director Hobbs provides summer update ).

 

[WickedWolfie]

My problem is that he got compensated for going when he walked and that he waited to walk rather than just doing it in June.

He got the squad really fit and playing decent football during that time.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

He got the squad really fit and playing decent football during that time.

I'm not objecting to him paid for the summer when he was working, but there was seemingly a settlement to cut the 3 year contract he and his whole staff had. I don't see why he should get that if he wants to go.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I'm not objecting to him paid for the summer when he was working, but there was seemingly a settlement to cut the 3 year contract he and his whole staff had. I don't see why he should get that if he wants to go.

Depends on what exactly his/their contract said. If the club had breached it....

 

[The Clock]

Depends on what exactly his/their contract said. If the club had breached it....

......or he did.

(for the puposes of balance - given that nobody on here has a clue)

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

My problem is that he got compensated for going when he walked and that he waited to walk rather than just doing it in June.

In June he was assured he'd be backed in the transfer market. Roll on August and he hadn't...

Does he still point to the promises made in June and think everything's okay?

If you went to McDonald's and ordered a large Big Mac meal at 2pm and by 2:15 it still hadn't arrived but the manager assured you it was on it's way, but at 2:30 they'd still not made it, how long would you wait?

How long until you demand your money back? They've reneged on an agreement to serve you food in a timely manner...

Do you wait until 2:45, 3pm even?

Or are you suggesting JL should sit and wait in the restaurant, thirsty and hungry, not saying a word until McDonald's closed and then leave without recompense?

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I'm not objecting to him paid for the summer when he was working, but there was seemingly a settlement to cut the 3 year contract he and his whole staff had. I don't see why he should get that if he wants to go.

As I said earlier, knowing the actual terms of his severance would make this a more informed and therefore useful discussion, but I doubt we'll ever know (maybe from the accounts in 2 years, if the thread is still going!). Given his (admittedly substantial) team left with him, there would obviously be a negotiation, but none of us really know much on what the settlement was.

 

[The Clock]

At the match tonight?
Keep your eyes open for Lop in disguise.
Particularly South Bank.
He really is a Wolf.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

I find it laughable how some fans think JL should have been happy to honour his contract after the owners seemingly lied to him.

JL's problem was with the owners, not the club or the fans.

Mad isn't it. I just don't understand how some fans cannot separate their own feelings for the concept of Wolverhampton Wanderers from the feelings of those who, quite understandably, have no emotional attachment to their employers (who just so happen to be Wolverhampton Wanderers)

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

In June he was assured he'd be backed in the transfer market. Roll on August and he hadn't...

Does he still point to the promises made in June and think everything's okay?

If you went to McDonald's and ordered a large Big Mac meal at 2pm and by 2:15 it still hadn't arrived but the manager assured you it was on it's way, but at 2:30 they'd still not made it, how long would you wait?

How long until you demand your money back? They've reneged on an agreement to serve you food in a timely manner...

Do you wait until 2:45, 3pm even?

Or are you suggesting JL should sit and wait in the restaurant, thirsty and hungry, not saying a word until McDonald's closed and then leave without recompense?

He hasn't paid us for anything though! We paid him to do a job. We don't even know what the promises were. He mentioned a list of a-targets b-targets and c-targets, and that we'd got none by a certain point; we don't know how realistic any of them are and for what reason they failed. The press reported cash flow issues but surely if that were truly the case we wouldn't have Kilman now and we would have accepted the first bid for Nunes. If Antonio and Cresswell were targets then I can see why west ham would want to get replacements before they went. If elvedi is truly available now for 4.5 million and they were asking for 12 million earlier in the month should we still do the deal?
If Bristol City wanted 25 million off us for a technically gifted but slightly built 19 year old yet to be capped at an under-21 level, should we just pay that if he is worth half that, just to keep the manager happy?
There was a lot of discontent about the signing of Guedes in particular last season, yet he was someone the manager at the time wanted. Do you give someone unconditional backing, for the sake of getting players early?

 

[Stourport wolf]

Also btw
'****ting on his nation' involved deciding to leave the national job for Real Madrid AFTER the World Cup (not at all unusual for managers to announce they'll leave after a tournament) and then the President of the Spanish Football Federation was a man of such high principle that he decided he needed to be more involved in the process and throwing his toys out like some sort of control freak. Can't quite think of that guy's name just at the moment....

So yet another post blaming everyone but Lopetegui. You make him the victim again.
Here is a chance for you to put things right,
Was Lopetegui to blame for using the media, to critisize the club's transfer policy?

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

So yet another post blaming everyone but Lopetegui. You make him the victim again.
Here is a chance for you to put things right,
Was Lopetegui to blame for using the media, to critisize the club's transfer policy?

Yet another post where I discredit your lies about Lopetegui and you just move on.

I think at the time it looked a bit crass for Lopetegui to do the interview with Belague. However at the time we also believed 'make £50m profit this window and spend the rest'. Looking back assuming he knew what was coming, maybe it was just a desperate last gambit. Not like he's alone in criticising our current transfer policy!

 

[waveney wolf]

With hindsight you can see why he wanted out. Our squad is being decimated. .

He wanted out cos the only thing he cares about is money ..he wanted another BIG pay off,,like he got at seville

 

[WickedWolfie]

......or he did.

(for the puposes of balance - given that nobody on here has a clue)

True, l only cited one option due to the content of the post l was replying to.

 

[WickedWolfie]

So yet another post blaming everyone but Lopetegui. You make him the victim again.
Here is a chance for you to put things right,
Was Lopetegui to blame for using the media, to critisize the club's transfer policy?

If my employer had out and out lied to me then l would absolutely reserve the right to publicly call them out.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

He hasn't paid us for anything though! We paid him to do a job.

The pedantry is strong in this one. It was an analogy ffs.

We don't even know what the promises were. He mentioned a list of a-targets b-targets and c-targets, and that we'd got none by a certain point; we don't know how realistic any of them are and for what reason they failed.

Close the forum. Opinion based on conjecture and hearsay are no longer permitted.

The press reported cash flow issues but surely if that were truly the case we wouldn't have Kilman now and we would have accepted the first bid for Nunes.

So you can use conjecture but I can't?

If Antonio and Cresswell were targets then I can see why west ham would want to get replacements before they went.

Perhaps JL didn't want them, I dunno.

If elvedi is truly available now for 4.5 million and they were asking for 12 million earlier in the month should we still do the deal?

Yes we should, we should buy him twice and still have £3m in the bank.

If Bristol City wanted 25 million off us for a technically gifted but slightly built 19 year old yet to be capped at an under-21 level, should we just pay that if he is worth half that, just to keep the manager happy?

I was never enamored by his signing, but if JL was promised backing he should have been backed.

There was a lot of discontent about the signing of Guedes in particular last season, yet he was someone the manager at the time wanted. Do you give someone unconditional backing, for the sake of getting players early?

It depends under what pretents JL signed a contract. Which is what the issue appears to have been.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

The pedantry is strong in this one. It was an analogy ffs.

Close the forum. Opinion based on conjecture and hearsay are no longer permitted.

So you can use conjecture but I can't?

Perhaps JL didn't want them, I dunno.

Yes we should, we should buy him twice and still have £3m in the bank.

I was never enamored by his signing, but if JL was promised backing he should have been backed.

It depends under what pretents JL signed a contract. Which is what the issue appears to have been.

1. It wasn't a very good analogy as it made out Julen to be a customer of Wolverhampton Wanderers rather than an employee who got paid to do a job.
2. You know as well as i do I didn't dictate any rules of debate either way. Where Usually when people say this sort of thing it is an attempt to shut another's opinion down for disagreeing with an opinion.
3. I didn't say you what you can and can't use conjecture. It is funny that you start of calling me a pedant dictating the rules of debate and try and do the same in exactly the same post. It's all a bit odd.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

1. It wasn't a very good analogy as it made out Julen to be a customer of Wolverhampton Wanderers rather than an employee who got paid to do a job.

Again, pedantic.

2. You know as well as i do I didn't dictate any rules of debate either way. Where Usually when people say this sort of thing it is an attempt to shut another's opinion down for disagreeing with an opinion.

This is literally what you said... "We don't even know what the promises were. He mentioned a list of a-targets b-targets and c-targets, and that we'd got none by a certain point; we don't know how realistic any of them are and for what reason they failed".

3. I didn't say you what you can and can't use conjecture. It is funny that you start of calling me a pedant dictating the rules of debate and try and do the same in exactly the same post. It's all a bit odd.

You called me out for using conjecture, then used it yourself. I merely pointed to the fact...

Now your pointing to the fact that I pointed out the fact, for some reason.

You're right, it is a bit odd.

 

[Wolf 82]

Mad isn't it. I just don't understand how some fans cannot separate their own feelings for the concept of Wolverhampton Wanderers from the feelings of those who, quite understandably, have no emotional attachment to their employers (who just so happen to be Wolverhampton Wanderers)

Subjectively.. I don’t think JL did much wrong. If it was a different club he walked out on, I would fully comprehend the reasoning and wouldn’t bat an eyelid at what he did. If I remove myself from the fact it’s my club, his leaving is bemusing, but not worth commentary.

However, I am a Wolves fan and therefore I don’t really like to see us fanboying a guy who walked out on us.. because he did.. probably with good reason.. it doesn’t happen often in football, and it definitely takes 2 quite strongly opposing views to take place.

It goes both ways though.. if you remove yourself from being a Wolves fan and look subjectively at Fosun and their era as Wolves stewards, I think you would be more likely to think “how have Wolves had those players on their books and had such a good run of it”.. rather than “this Fosun lot are throwing away an opportunity with a massive club”.

I think we all ultimately choose to lay blame where we want, but if you take a step back, it’s been a good era for Wolves and Fosun have played a much larger part in that than Lopetegui. Whose name has really just bookended the period, with little notable input. I do think we’re wasting a lot of airtime on a guy who really didn’t leave much of a mark at all.

 

[wwbug]

So yet another post blaming everyone but Lopetegui. You make him the victim again.
Here is a chance for you to put things right,
Was Lopetegui to blame for using the media, to critisize the club's transfer policy?

If your boss goes AWOL to China , they be no other way to communicate the importance of your decision.

 

[Hanbury_Wolf]

So it's looking likely we'll be making a couple of additions to the first team.

Does this call Lopetegui's whole version of events into question? The one where we couldn't even sign free transfers.

 

[SuperGran]

So it's looking likely we'll be making a couple of additions to the first team.

Does this call Lopetegui's whole version of events into question? The one where we couldn't even sign free transfers.

We did say at the end of the window

 

[QB Wolf]

All this stuff about the club lying, it’s pretty common in business for the financial situation to change, for the plug to be pulled on funding and projects, a good employee will respond not react, and figure out how to achieve what is needed in a different way, which any manager worth their salt would. I liked JL a lot, but he bottled it when things got tough in my eyes.

 

[Uncle Festa]

Sevilles whole squad up for sale to pay off massive debts. Sound familiar? Should do. Lopetegui worked his magic there as well ****ing the club up in the long term...

 

[Stourport wolf]

[/QUOTE]

Just to give @Jefe a break I'll do this one. He didn't 'orchestrate his dismissal' at Wolves. We begged him to stay, he said he wanted to leave as he wasn't getting the backing. None of us know the terms of his departure.

By going on social media and going public, it was only going to end in one way, he wouldn't be here by the start of the new season. He took the initiative and so I stick with my opinion, he orchestrated his own departure.
Your opinion might be different to mine, but by saying you discredited my lie, is in itself a lie. I gave an opinion based on the what he has done before and what he was doing in the interviews in social media and am happy to stick with my opinion, he orchestrated his own removal. You are never going to get what you want by blackmailing a football club, unless you are Seville of course, who didn't give in untill the season had started and their club could see, it was better to let a manager go, who didn't want to be there.
Monch said, he should have let him go before the start of the season. That speaks volumes to me.

 

[Stourport wolf]

Sevilles whole squad up for sale to pay off massive debts. Sound familiar? Should do. Lopetegui worked his magic there as well ****ing the club up in the long term...

I think Monchi is more to blame here. He gave Lopetegui the expensive players, hoping that Seville would kick on in the Champions League, something that Lopetegui never did, hence why I always have said, Lopetegui with the new expensive players, never took Seville to the next level.
He also took on a manager who had been a failure a club management, when many in Spain, were saying Lopetegui was a busted flush
Monchi said at the time, he was taking a huge gamble with Lopetegui.

 

[Fenrir_]

So it's looking likely we'll be making a couple of additions to the first team.

Does this call Lopetegui's whole version of events into question? The one where we couldn't even sign free transfers.

Of course it does. Two players having medicals according to Sky, costing actual money, and no sales since Lopetegui left as far as I can see (as yet)

Always wary that his side of the story was leaked so quickly by Guillem (load of) Balagues and these moves make it look like a load of ****, getting his excuses in early

 

[Stourport wolf]

If your boss goes AWOL to China , they be no other way to communicate the importance of your decision.

If he wasn't happy, he could have left. He forced his departure. He was never going to blackmail Wolves like he did at Seville. It went to the wire, but Wolves had no option to come to an agreement with him. No point in having a manager, who didn't want to be here.