Friday the 13th

[Frank Lincoln]

Apologies of this has been discussed before, but does anyone know why Friday 13th is considered unlucky. I ask because I was at hing a programme about the Knights Templars, and it was on Friday the 13th in 1307 when the French arrested the leaders of the Templars and siezed their assets leading to the order being disbanded.

It has been mentioned that is where the Friday the 13th myth came from. Is that correct?

 

[Jonzy54]

Apologies of this has been discussed before, but does anyone know why Friday 13th is considered unlucky. I ask because I was at hing a programme about the Knights Templars, and it was on Friday the 13th in 1307 when the French arrested the leaders of the Templars and siezed their assets leading to the order being disbanded.

It has been mentioned that is where the Friday the 13th myth came from. Is that correct?

I remember reading that some believe that 13 was deemed unlucky stemming from the 13th guest being Judas and he betrayed Jesus on a Friday .
Other than that I have no idea .

 

[Wall heath Wanderer]

Judas being the 13th person at the feast was blatantly stolen from norse mythology where Loki was the 13th, and uninvited, guest at a feast after he tricked one god into killing another.
Christian mythology is just stolen and *******ised from other beliefs.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

I remember reading that some believe that 13 was deemed unlucky stemming from the 13th guest being Judas and he betrayed Jesus on a Friday .
Other than that I have no idea .

I have heard that mentioned, but I think the Knights Templar arrests could be the most plausible explanation for the superstition.

 

[Deleted member 3573J]

Judas being the 13th person at the feast was blatantly stolen from norse mythology where Loki was the 13th, and uninvited, guest at a feast after he tricked one god into killing another.
Christian mythology is just stolen and *******ised from other beliefs.

Norse mythology came 900 years after Christianity though.

 

[Wall heath Wanderer]

Norse mythology came 900 years after Christianity though.

Hmmm, to a degree aye, i think it was around the 12th century, if i remember right, that the eddas and sagas were written down, but the religion and all that went with it would have been passed down through an oral tradition long before Christianity found a foothold in northern europe, so maybe i should have used the word religion, or beliefs, rather than mythology.

Either way, i still believe that Christianity took stories from regional beliefs and added them to their own to convert peoples to their religion over time.

 

[Scott in the Sand]

The Great Flood and the sparing of one good man by God can be traced all the way back to Sumerian texts from Mesopotamia in 2000 BC. Obviously making the story 4,000 years old. It was then copied by the Akkadians, Babylonians and Assyrians and presumably though to Christianity. The story is variously known as the Epic of Gilgamesh or the Epic of Altrahasis.

A passable English version is contained in “Myths from Medopotamia” in the Oxford World’s Classics book series.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

The Great Flood and the sparing of one good man by God can be traced all the way back to Sumerian texts from Mesopotamia in 2000 BC. Obviously making the story 4,000 years old. It was then copied by the Akkadians, Babylonians and Assyrians and presumably though to Christianity. The story is variously known as the Epic of Gilgamesh or the Epic of Altrahasis.

A passable English version is contained in “Myths from Medopotamia” in the Oxford World’s Classics book series.

Although to state the obvious, it's not a Christian myth it's from the Pentateuch which is the start of the Torah. Whether that pre- or post-dates Sumerian texts I don't know (probably not I imagine?). All would come from finding sea shells fossilised into mountains I presume and of course if you think the Earth is 6000 years old there wouldn't be much chance of believing they could get there another way.

To address the topic I think the Knights Templar stuff if a modern take (who would have mourned their destruction?). Mostly just two Christian bad things combined - 13 from the Last Supper and Good Friday.

 

[Deleted member 3573J]

Any flood story from those times will be similar, the natural reaction to extreme rain just as humanity was in its infancy would be to think you were going to die and then some will make up a tale about needing a boat to survive. Just because a few tales are similar doesn't mean they were copied from each other, there's plenty of historical events that are similar, is only the first one that happened the true one?

The similarities between Gilgamesh and genesis end at the very basics, the flood of the Gilgamesh tale lasted a fortnight and the rain was for 7 days, this is basically no more than a short period of bad weather. The rain in genesis lasted for 40 days and the flood over a year.

It's a bit like those who claim Jesus is a rip off of Horus, it's just atheists scared of the truth so they added things to it to make it fit Horus. A lot of the things about Horus have just been made up, people made videos or did a website comparing the two and atheists and non Christians lapped it up with glee. Scratch beneath the surface though and do your own research and they aren't very similar at all.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Any flood story from those times will be similar, the natural reaction to extreme rain just as humanity was in its infancy would be to think you were going to die and then some will make up a tale about needing a boat to survive. Just because a few tales are similar doesn't mean they were copied from each other, there's plenty of historical events that are similar, is only the first one that happened the true one?

The similarities between Gilgamesh and genesis end at the very basics, the flood of the Gilgamesh tale lasted a fortnight and the rain was for 7 days, this is basically no more than a short period of bad weather. The rain in genesis lasted for 40 days and the flood over a year.

It's a bit like those who claim Jesus is a rip off of Horus, it's just atheists scared of the truth so they added things to it to make it fit Horus. A lot of the things about Horus have just been made up, people made videos or did a website comparing the two and atheists and non Christians lapped it up with glee. Scratch beneath the surface though and do your own research and they aren't very similar at all.

Had a look mate as I hadn't ever heard of it.
Built an arc (different dimensions), took the 'seed' of the animals (seems a bit more plausible), sent birds out to check if the flood had receded (nobody ever told me where the water came from or went to).
Was only 7 days of rain, but then there were loads of Gods in those days so maybe they could make it rain harder?
Surely we should believe these people as the best source though as they are from the land between the two great rivers of Genesis aren't they?

 

[JadeWolf]

Apologies of this has been discussed before, but does anyone know why Friday 13th is considered unlucky. I ask because I was at hing a programme about the Knights Templars, and it was on Friday the 13th in 1307 when the French arrested the leaders of the Templars and siezed their assets leading to the order being disbanded.

It has been mentioned that is where the Friday the 13th myth came from. Is that correct?

I was always told that it was to do with Jesus being crucified on the Friday, and Judas being the 13th disciple.

 

[Scott in the Sand]

Had a look mate as I hadn't ever heard of it.
Built an arc (different dimensions), took the 'seed' of the animals (seems a bit more plausible), sent birds out to check if the flood had receded (nobody ever told me where the water came from or went to).
Was only 7 days of rain, but then there were loads of Gods in those days so maybe they could make it rain harder?
Surely we should believe these people as the best source though as they are from the land between the two great rivers of Genesis aren't they?

Yes the whole Garden of Eden thing is very interesting. It is described in Genesis as being a land of four rivers, one of which circumnavigates a land rich in gold.
In the Mesopotamia / Persian Gulf scenario, two of the rivers (as you correctly identified) are the Tigris and the Euphrates. The 3rd river (Gihon) is tentatively identified as either the Aras or Karun rivers in Iran.
River number four (Pishon) is the interesting one for me. It’s never been clearly identified but has been associated with a now-dry wadi system in Arabia along the line of the Wadi al-Batin and the Wadi al-Rumah. This very large river system joined the Tigris / Euphrates and the Gulf between Kuwait City and Basrah in Iraq. The Wadi al- Batin is huge and has all the geomorphology of a big lowland river system. The WAB runs westward past Hafr Al-Batin across the northern part of the Ad Dahna desert (where it is buried by sand) to the city of Buraidah. From there it is known as Wadi al-Rumah until, continuing westward it meets the Hijaz mountains near Medina. Close by is Mahd adh-Dhahab (Cradle of the Gold), Saudi Arabia’s main source of gold, sometimes identified as the gold mines of the Queen of Sheba.
I know the WAB, Ad-Dhana and the Hijaz well. I can see it being a fertile land thousands of years ago when the climate was different.

Ad-Dahna desert:


In the Hijaz Mountains by Medina:


‘Unusual’ rock from the Mahd Adh-Dhahab:

 

[quirky_birky]

Norse mythology came 900 years after Christianity though.

Based on what evidence?

In the 9th Century AD, Alfred the Great was battling pagan (Norse) Danes. Norse mythology did not spring up overnight. The last pagan Anglo Saxon king was Penda, in the 7th Century AD, at a time when the rest of the country (certainly the other ruling families) were Christian. Place names such as Wednesbury and Wednesfield, which you will be familiar with, are named after Woden, the Anglo Saxon equivalent to Odin. Without checking, I would imagine that these predate Christianity in what is now England by some way (Christianity was reintroduced into these areas at the end of the 6th Century AD). And lets not forget the days of the week, of which four are named after Tyr, Wodin, Thor and Frigga, which are clearly older than the 9th Century. The Angles & Saxons brought their version of Norse mythology over when they first settled from modern Denmark/Germany, some time around the 5th Century AD, so it certainly existed then.

Interestingly, Tacitus wrote about the Germanic religion in the first century AD, albeit he Romanised the Gods that they worshipped (possibly switching Mercury for Odin, Mars for Tyr etc.). I wouldn't like to suggest how old Norse/Germanic mythology is, but it most certainly ISN'T 900 years younger than Christianity. Sorry JB.

 

[quirky_birky]

Based on what evidence?

In the 9th Century AD, Alfred the Great was battling pagan (Norse) Danes. Norse mythology did not spring up overnight. The last pagan Anglo Saxon king was Penda, in the 7th Century AD, at a time when the rest of the country (certainly the other ruling families) were Christian. Place names such as Wednesbury and Wednesfield, which you will be familiar with, are named after Woden, the Anglo Saxon equivalent to Odin. Without checking, I would imagine that these predate Christianity in what is now England by some way (Christianity was reintroduced into these areas at the end of the 6th Century AD). And lets not forget the days of the week, of which four are named after Tyr, Wodin, Thor and Frigga, which are clearly older than the 9th Century. The Angles & Saxons brought their version of Norse mythology over when they first settled from modern Denmark/Germany, some time around the 5th Century AD, so it certainly existed then.

Interestingly, Tacitus wrote about the Germanic religion in the first century AD, albeit he Romanised the Gods that they worshipped (possibly switching Mercury for Odin, Mars for Tyr etc.). I wouldn't like to suggest how old Norse/Germanic mythology is, but it most certainly ISN'T 900 years younger than Christianity. Sorry JB.

For what it's worth, the vikings/Danes (and the pagan Anglo Saxons for that matter) didn't leave any written evidence themselves of their religion. Snorri Sturluson (an Icelandic Christian, writing in the thirteenth century) made a great effort to record what he could of the Norse mythology. He also wrote down some great sagas and the Heimskringla, which is a record of the history of the kings of Norway, which is a fascinating read, but I digress.

 

[topcat99]

I thought that Friday 13th was to do with Templars

One of the biblical flood stories probably stems from the volcanic explosions that destroyed Santorini. The explosion caused Tsunamis throughout the Mediterranean basin (and destroyed Akrotiri on Crete.

The saying “the whole 9 yards “ comes from the length of a Spitfire gun belt

“Got a 109 over Maidenhead “
“ Did you hit him”
“Did I? Got on his tail and gave him the whole 9 yards old bean “

 

[Deleted member 3573J]

Based on what evidence?

In the 9th Century AD, Alfred the Great was battling pagan (Norse) Danes. Norse mythology did not spring up overnight. The last pagan Anglo Saxon king was Penda, in the 7th Century AD, at a time when the rest of the country (certainly the other ruling families) were Christian. Place names such as Wednesbury and Wednesfield, which you will be familiar with, are named after Woden, the Anglo Saxon equivalent to Odin. Without checking, I would imagine that these predate Christianity in what is now England by some way (Christianity was reintroduced into these areas at the end of the 6th Century AD). And lets not forget the days of the week, of which four are named after Tyr, Wodin, Thor and Frigga, which are clearly older than the 9th Century. The Angles & Saxons brought their version of Norse mythology over when they first settled from modern Denmark/Germany, some time around the 5th Century AD, so it certainly existed then.

Interestingly, Tacitus wrote about the Germanic religion in the first century AD, albeit he Romanised the Gods that they worshipped (possibly switching Mercury for Odin, Mars for Tyr etc.). I wouldn't like to suggest how old Norse/Germanic mythology is, but it most certainly ISN'T 900 years younger than Christianity. Sorry JB.

I've next to no knowledge of Norse so I just googled it, the 9th century seemed to be the general answer. If there's evidence that it was as far back as the 5th century then fair enough, still 500 years after Christianity. Either way, Christianity was in the world long before Norse going by what you say. My original post was to dispute that Christianity was copied from Norse, which is impossible, we have the Dead Sea scrolls that date back to 150 BC and the oldest part of the new testament, the gospel of John, around 120 AD.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I thought that Friday 13th was to do with Templars

One of the biblical flood stories probably stems from the volcanic explosions that destroyed Santorini. The explosion caused Tsunamis throughout the Mediterranean basin (and destroyed Akrotiri on Crete.

The saying “the whole 9 yards “ comes from the length of a Spitfire gun belt

“Got a 109 over Maidenhead “
“ Did you hit him”
“Did I? Got on his tail and gave him the whole 9 yards old bean “

Much as I love your posts I think you're wrong 3 times here!

I think the Templars thing is a modern myth that came a long time after the original superstitions and is probably just coincidental.
The volcanic eruption that destroyed Santorini was probably the thing that finished off the Minoans which is about 1000 BC, so post-dates Biblical flood stories.
I looked up the whole 9 yards and it predates the Spitfire although I wouldn't doubt your knowledge of the length of the gun belt and the use of the phrase you gave.

 

[topcat99]

I don’t mind being corrected at all mate.

You do hear a fair few urban myths in the Military, but always thought the gun belt one was correct.

When was the Old Testament written down? I didn’t know it was as long ago as 1000 BC

 

[quirky_birky]

I've next to no knowledge of Norse so I just googled it, the 9th century seemed to be the general answer. If there's evidence that it was as far back as the 5th century then fair enough, still 500 years after Christianity. Either way, Christianity was in the world long before Norse going by what you say. My original post was to dispute that Christianity was copied from Norse, which is impossible, we have the Dead Sea scrolls that date back to 150 BC and the oldest part of the new testament, the gospel of John, around 120 AD.

Dead Sea scrolls dating from 150 BC? I hope you're using that for dating the Old Testament stuff.
As I mentioned, Tacitus was writing in the first century AD, so was contemporaneous with the writing of much of the New Testament, and he wrote about Germanic religion (which shares much with the Norse, whose origins are Germanic). I can't say how fully formed the myths were at this stage as the evidence is sketchy, but it's still not possible to categorically say that Christianity is older than Norse mythology. The 5th Century date you've taken from my post is the latest possible date IF you assume that the religion pretty much sprang up overnight AND you ignore the evidence from Tacitus' Germania.

Incidentally, I'm not advocating that Christianity pinched any ideas from the Norse.

 

[quirky_birky]

The volcanic eruption that destroyed Santorini was probably the thing that finished off the Minoans which is about 1000 BC, so post-dates Biblical flood stories.

I'm no expert, but a quick Google search suggests the written books of the Old Testament (especially Genesis, Exodus etc) are likely to be dated to around the 5th Century BC. No doubt the oral tradition goes back further but the Santorini eruption dates back further to c. 1500 BC.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I'm no expert, but a quick Google search suggests the written books of the Old Testament (especially Genesis, Exodus etc) are likely to be dated to around the 5th Century BC. No doubt the oral tradition goes back further but the Santorini eruption dates back further to c. 1500 BC.

Fair points. I think Judaism is much older than that though so I'm assuming the oral tradition had these stories, hence why it diverges (slightly) from the written Gilgamesh one,
I'm not sure that a tsunami would generate a flood myth based on rain though anyway.
There are mountains (not Ararat which is volcanic) in the region which are sedimentary rock full of marine fossils which seems like a more likely origin for the myth to me.

 

[Dr Wolfenstein]

It's a bit like those who claim Jesus is a rip off of Horus, it's just atheists scared of the truth so they added things to it to make it fit Horus. A lot of the things about Horus have just been made up, people made videos or did a website comparing the two and atheists and non Christians lapped it up with glee. Scratch beneath the surface though and do your own research and they aren't very similar at all.

Mithras (a god worshipped by Roman soldiers) also has certain parallels/similarities. Early Christians tended to annex some of these earlier myths & beliefs in order to appeal to a wider range of people (ie hoovering up existing customers). Just as certain pagan religious festivals were taken over & re-branded; and churches were often built on the site of previous pagan sites of worship (eg Wednesbury's Church Hill). St Patrick ridding Ireland of snakes is probably an allegory to describe the expulsion of the old religion which was associated with symbols of serpents/dragons (cf St George).

 

[quirky_birky]

Fair points. I think Judaism is much older than that though so I'm assuming the oral tradition had these stories, hence why it diverges (slightly) from the written Gilgamesh one,
I'm not sure that a tsunami would generate a flood myth based on rain though anyway.
There are mountains (not Ararat which is volcanic) in the region which are sedimentary rock full of marine fossils which seems like a more likely origin for the myth to me.

I've no doubt Judaism is way older, but is does show the danger of dating something purely on written evidence (such as the who Norse thing debated above).

Sat here in Whaley Bridge, I think I should be more clued up about flood myths, but I don't feel particularly qualified. There are certainly more flood myths than those in Gilgamesh and Genesis, but I believe that was touched on in the God thread, so I don't want to go back over that.

As for Friday 13th, I'm not convinced about the Templar connection. I've not read up on them for a long time, but it was a pretty nasty fall from grace from what I remember. Allegations of devil worship and all sorts. I keep meaning to watch that series (Knightfall?) but haven't gotten around to it yet.

My guess is it's partly down to the number itself. For whatever reason, we're comfortable with 12 (maybe because it divides by 2,3,4 and 6), and it gets used a lot for stuff, like months in a year (from 12 lunar cycles), 12 gods of Olympus, 12 tribes of Israel etc. We use a dozen, and a gross (12×12) whereas 13 is the next number up and is a prime number, so we seem to be uncomfortable with it (except for bakers and their baker's dozens, but you can't trust Baker's can you!!). Seems daft, but superstitions usually are.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I've no doubt Judaism is way older, but is does show the danger of dating something purely on written evidence (such as the who Norse thing debated above).

Sat here in Whaley Bridge, I think I should be more clued up about flood myths, but I don't feel particularly qualified. There are certainly more flood myths than those in Gilgamesh and Genesis, but I believe that was touched on in the God thread, so I don't want to go back over that.

As for Friday 13th, I'm not convinced about the Templar connection. I've not read up on them for a long time, but it was a pretty nasty fall from grace from what I remember. Allegations of devil worship and all sorts. I keep meaning to watch that series (Knightfall?) but haven't gotten around to it yet.

My guess is it's partly down to the number itself. For whatever reason, we're comfortable with 12 (maybe because it divides by 2,3,4 and 6), and it gets used a lot for stuff, like months in a year (from 12 lunar cycles), 12 gods of Olympus, 12 tribes of Israel etc. We use a dozen, and a gross (12×12) whereas 13 is the next number up and is a prime number, so we seem to be uncomfortable with it (except for bakers and their baker's dozens, but you can't trust Baker's can you!!). Seems daft, but superstitions usually are.

Yes, Templars absolute ****ing nutters from the little I know. Maybe some of the stuff is made up though as.they were a bit of an alternative power base to the Pope who had them done in?

You can trust a baker can't you, they give you 13 to make sure there's no doubt don't they?

 

[quirky_birky]

You can trust a baker can't you, they give you 13 to make sure there's no doubt don't they?

13 witches in a coven
13 in a baker's dozen

The clues are there! Gregg's are evil, EVIL I tell you!!!




I wonder if I asked for a dozen sausage rolls at Greggs, how many I'd get...

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

13 witches in a coven
13 in a baker's dozen

The clues are there! Gregg's are evil, EVIL I tell you!!!

I wonder if I asked for a dozen sausage rolls at Greggs, how many I'd get...

OMG so obvious now you've said it!

 

[Frank Lincoln]

I've no doubt Judaism is way older, but is does show the danger of dating something purely on written evidence (such as the who Norse thing debated above).

Sat here in Whaley Bridge, I think I should be more clued up about flood myths, but I don't feel particularly qualified. There are certainly more flood myths than those in Gilgamesh and Genesis, but I believe that was touched on in the God thread, so I don't want to go back over that.

As for Friday 13th, I'm not convinced about the Templar connection. I've not read up on them for a long time, but it was a pretty nasty fall from grace from what I remember. Allegations of devil worship and all sorts. I keep meaning to watch that series (Knightfall?) but haven't gotten around to it yet.

My guess is it's partly down to the number itself. For whatever reason, we're comfortable with 12 (maybe because it divides by 2,3,4 and 6), and it gets used a lot for stuff, like months in a year (from 12 lunar cycles), 12 gods of Olympus, 12 tribes of Israel etc. We use a dozen, and a gross (12×12) whereas 13 is the next number up and is a prime number, so we seem to be uncomfortable with it (except for bakers and their baker's dozens, but you can't trust Baker's can you!!). Seems daft, but superstitions usually are.

Why can't we trust bakers. I once knew a superb Masterbaker....

 

[Scott in the Sand]

I think Santorini is much more likely an origin of the 'lost Atlantis' myth than the flood myth.

 

[topcat99]

13 witches in a coven
13 in a baker's dozen

The clues are there! Gregg's are evil, EVIL I tell you!!!




I wonder if I asked for a dozen sausage rolls at Greggs, how many I'd get...

So AVOID Greggs in Coven ? Double trouble?

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

For what it's worth, the vikings/Danes (and the pagan Anglo Saxons for that matter) didn't leave any written evidence themselves of their religion. Snorri Sturluson (an Icelandic Christian, writing in the thirteenth century) made a great effort to record what he could of the Norse mythology. He also wrote down some great sagas and the Heimskringla, which is a record of the history of the kings of Norway, which is a fascinating read, but I digress.

That is correct and by then the Pagans had been christianised.

There are themes in Christianity and Norse mythology that are quite similar. Both Odin and Jesus being pierced by a spear etc etc There is Hell and Hel and on it goes.

Were Norse myths adopted into Christianity hence the similar themes? Or were Norse Myths written down by Christians who then added a christian flavour to the original myths....?

Or are these themes universal to all human religions?

Hmmm

 

[quirky_birky]

That is correct and by then the Pagans had been christianised.

There are themes in Christianity and Norse mythology that are quite similar. Both Odin and Jesus being pierced by a spear etc etc There is Hell and Hel and on it goes.

Were Norse myths adopted into Christianity hence the similar themes? Or were Norse Myths written down by Christians who then added a christian flavour to the original myths....?

Or are these themes universal to all human religions?

Hmmm

I don't think you can categorically say that Christianity borrowed off Norse mythology or vice versa. It may be that there were initially vaguely similar ideas in both that maybe became closer over time. Sometimes stories are incorrectly attributed. Going back to Snorri Sturluson, if I recall correctly, he attributes some tales to Harald Hardrada which were traditionally associated with Ragnar Lothbrock.

Sometimes there is deliberate merging of ideas - the Roman's often appropriated gods from other religions and identified them with their own (the British god Sulis became Sulis Minerva).

With Hel/Hell, it was probably just easier to keep the name for a concept vaguely similar in both religions. Similar with Easter, it was easier to retain the name from an existing festival. It amuses me that the English days of the week were probably borrowed from the Roman's and renamed with Anglo Saxon near equivalent deities (French days keep their Roman origin, but you can see the parallels - Mardi, Mars, Tuesday, Tyr - Mercredi, Mercury, Wednesday, Woden - Vendredi, Venus, Friday, Frigga - Jeudi, Jupiter, Thursday, Thor). Talk about plagiarism!!

Having said that, there do seem to be recurring themes across different religions or mythology, which may harken back to much farther back in time. We can trace Western language back in time to a proto Indo-European source, so it's not beyond possibility that some stories have followed the same route, and have just been attributed and reattributed to one figure or another.

 

[quirky_birky]

Back to the thread topic:
Friday the 13th: why do we fear it and how unlucky is it really?

The suggestion there is that both Friday and the number 13 are both unlucky in their own right, and so Friday 13th gives you the worst of both.

 

[George AlooGobi]

For what it's worth, the vikings/Danes (and the pagan Anglo Saxons for that matter) didn't leave any written evidence themselves of their religion. Snorri Sturluson (an Icelandic Christian, writing in the thirteenth century) made a great effort to record what he could of the Norse mythology. He also wrote down some great sagas and the Heimskringla, which is a record of the history of the kings of Norway, which is a fascinating read, but I digress.

After watching Vikings I'm keen to read up on Norse mythology - any books you recommend?

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

After watching Vikings I'm keen to read up on Norse mythology - any books you recommend?

The Poetic Edda

The Prose Edda

pretty darned good stuff

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

Back to the thread topic:
Friday the 13th: why do we fear it and how unlucky is it really?

The suggestion there is that both Friday and the number 13 are both unlucky in their own right, and so Friday 13th gives you the worst of both.

Didn't sailors think it was unlucky to set out on a journey on a Friday?

 

[derbyrameater]

The number 4 is unlucky in Japan.. I suspect every culture has its own unlucky number with varying reasons.

 

[quirky_birky]

After watching Vikings I'm keen to read up on Norse mythology - any books you recommend?

The Edda's, as Ricki said. Those two books are pretty much everything we have on the subject, written by Snorri Sturluson back in the 13th Century.

Snorri was a fascinating chap. He wrote lots of other interesting books, including Heimskringla, which is a history of the kings of Norway, with various folk lore tales about them. Also has an account of the Battle of Stamford Bridge from the Norwegian side. If you like the Vikings, you might be interested to know that it contains the stories of Halfdan the Black and Harald Finehair, two of the series' characters. Vikings is an enjoyable watch, but is a historical mess, with characters shown as contemporaries who actually lived 100 years apart. There are also plenty of other inaccuracies (Alfred made king ahead of Aethelred???), but I could be here all day. It's a fascinating era though, and I recommend people reading up on that part of history (Alfred the Great through to the Norman Conquest, via **** - all intertwined with vikings, and had a major impact on England and English culture).

The sagas are quite cool. Egil's Saga is a favourite of mine, partly because he ends up fighting for Aethelstan at the Battle of Brunanburh (a much overlooked part of our history) but there are plenty of other sagas which are worth a read.

 

[George AlooGobi]

Much obliged. Will check those books out

I used to find history so boring when I was at school. I can't get enough since I've got a little older, really fascinates me

 

[quirky_birky]

Much obliged. Will check those books out

I used to find history so boring when I was at school. I can't get enough since I've got a little older, really fascinates me

You can probably pick them up for next to nothing as e-books since Snorri's copyright has probably lapsed after several hundred years. Might be worth checking them out in that format before splashing out on a hard copy.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

You can probably pick them up for next to nothing as e-books since Snorri's copyright has probably lapsed after several hundred years. Might be worth checking them out in that format before splashing out on a hard copy.

I use these people quite a bit, very good

All categories

You can just read it here
The Poetic Edda: Voluspo

Almost tempted.