Accounts due today

[WickedWolfie]

A rough calculation says you could make one out of the finest silk for £300,000. But that doesn't include goal posts. Or the white lines.

When I'm a millionaire I'm gonna make a massive subbuteo pitch out of silk and cocaine.

EDIT: - According to my rough calculations, to line a pitch with cocaine it would cost 13.2 million pounds. Maybe I won't after after all.

Keep it away from Robbie Fowler..

 

[mcwolf]

http://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=70464

Fulham fan wants the Premier League to relegate Wolves (Big Cheat) and Cardiff (Little Cheat).

Funny how its always teams that are in the **** that do all the cussing and finger pointing.

 

[JR’s Boots]

If I understand what Wolves have done is spend £30M in FFP terms last season, whilst still remaining under the rolling 3 year limit.

In return the club went from 15th in the champ to 7th in the prem (and QF in the FA Cup) and increased turnover from circa £25M to £125M.

Meanwhile the squad is worth 2 or 3 times what was paid.

Seems pretty smart to me. Please carry on the good work

 

[wolvesaywe]

If I understand what Wolves have done is spend £30M in FFP terms last season, whilst still remaining under the rolling 3 year limit.

In return the club went from 15th in the champ to 7th in the prem (and QF in the FA Cup) and increased turnover from circa £25M to £125M.

Meanwhile the squad is worth 2 or 3 times what was paid.

Seems pretty smart to me. Please carry on the good work

Yeah but we turned a profit under Morgan & Jez

 

[maws]

What were the losses profits the 2 years before? Sorry I bet it’s been mentioned but it’s a long read

 

[Deleted member 3751]

What were the losses profits the 2 years before? Sorry I bet it’s been mentioned but it’s a long read

15/16: +£5.8m
16/17: -£23.2m

(May not be totally accurate but these are the figures I've just pulled off the net)

Overall we're at around a £70m loss for the three year rolling period. That's operating losses though and when you take away FFP exemptions (like the £20m ish payable in bonuses and other payments on promotion as well as youth investment etc) we're probably under the £39m FFP threshold for losses

 

[JadeWolf]

If I understand what Wolves have done is spend £30M in FFP terms last season, whilst still remaining under the rolling 3 year limit.

In return the club went from 15th in the champ to 7th in the prem (and QF in the FA Cup) and increased turnover from circa £25M to £125M.

Meanwhile the squad is worth 2 or 3 times what was paid.

Seems pretty smart to me. Please carry on the good work

Think that’s what people on the outside don’t get. We’ve not really spent money as much as invested it. Pretty much every player we’ve signed we could get outs money back or make a profit if we sold them, and we’ve invested in better pitch, training facilities, academy, etc. £50m loss sounds a lot but we’ve got bloody good value for the money. Other clubs have spent and are in a worse position.

 

[Deleted member 6754 (removed at own request)]

Sensible, non-deluded Twitter thread on FFP from a Vile fan.

Thread by @yorkshireAVFC: "2018/2019 Accounts forecast & FFP analysis WARNING: A LONG THREAD Over the next however many tweets, I will break down my projection of […]"

 

[wolvesjoe]

15/16: +£5.8m
16/17: -£23.2m

(May not be totally accurate but these are the figures I've just pulled off the net)

Overall we're at around a £70m loss for the three year rolling period. That's operating losses though and when you take away FFP exemptions (like the £20m ish payable in bonuses and other payments on promotion as well as youth investment etc) we're probably under the £39m FFP threshold for losses

It would be really interesting to see a full breakdown of the expenditure which is exempt from the FFP criteria. As I understand it, the following are all exempt:

Stadium upgrades
Training ground upgrade
Academy expenditure as a whole, both operational and upgrades
Community outreach
Women's football

And then probably the single biggest offset: promotion bonusses for players and staff.

Of course, when looked at from this perspective, and managed in this way, the FFP regulations dont seem
quite so daunting, and give well-managed clubs quite a lot of sway in building a club up for a promotion attempt.

Also interesting to know how well the whole thing is audited, and how much scope for creative accounting is waved through.

 

[Knocker Lite]

Looks like Wolves have played FFP perfectly, its difficult to see a wrong move by Fosun on and off the pitch this past two seasons.

 

[arctic rime]

If I understand what Wolves have done is spend £30M in FFP terms last season, whilst still remaining under the rolling 3 year limit.

In return the club went from 15th in the champ to 7th in the prem (and QF in the FA Cup) and increased turnover from circa £25M to £125M.

Meanwhile the squad is worth 2 or 3 times what was paid.

Seems pretty smart to me. Please carry on the good work

And the original £30m investment has increased by a multiple of at least 8.

 

[ombyman]

This is very blatant, but
Technically could you sign a player as a coach to your womens team and then internally transfer or formally loan or sell for a very low fee to your mens team?
To get round ffp.
I realise it's wrong and almost certainly not allowed.

 

[Deleted member 3751]

It would be really interesting to see a full breakdown of the expenditure which is exempt from the FFP criteria. As I understand it, the following are all exempt:

Stadium upgrades
Training ground upgrade
Academy expenditure as a whole, both operational and upgrades
Community outreach
Women's football

And then probably the single biggest offset: promotion bonusses for players and staff.

Of course, when looked at from this perspective, and managed in this way, the FFP regulations dont seem
quite so daunting, and give well-managed clubs quite a lot of sway in building a club up for a promotion attempt.

Also interesting to know how well the whole thing is audited, and how much scope for creative accounting is waved through.

You can also ask for things to be exempt, I would imagine we asked for the pay off to the Money Shop to be exempted (and due to the timing would have had no reason for it to be refused).

Details in here

EFL Official Website - Appendix 5 - Financial Fair Play Regulations

FFP isn't daunting - unless you have a massive, unsustainable wage bill

Over to you, Villa

 

[wolvesjoe]

You can also ask for things to be exempt, I would imagine we asked for the pay off to the Money Shop to be exempted (and due to the timing would have had no reason for it to be refused).

Details in here

EFL Official Website - Appendix 5 - Financial Fair Play Regulations

FFP isn't daunting - unless you have a massive, unsustainable wage bill

Over to you, Villa

I also wonder if payoffs to sacked managers may be treated as exceptional items.

 

[Deleted member 3751]

I also wonder if payoffs to sacked managers may also be treated as exceptional items.

Nah, that's in the appendix of things that they won't consider for exemption

Which does make you think, we paid off three managers in 16/17!

 

[Pagey]

And the original £30m investment has increased by a multiple of at least 8.

This is the only thing regarding Fosun that worry me-
They say they're in with their 10 year plan, but what if the value of Wolves increases to such a point, that Fosun say OK we're now at a level of return that we can now sell?

 

[Golden Oldie]

This is the only thing regarding Fosun that worry me-
They say they're in with their 10 year plan, but what if the value of Wolves increases to such a point, that Fosun say OK we're now at a level of return that we can now sell?

I'm tempted to say that at that time we would have made it, in fact they, Fosun, and us have made it! Any buyer who could afford such an investment would not wish to waste it's money so it would continue running it on the same lines which would mean we would stay a successful business. What about a few shares I wonder?
But, my guess is Fosun will reap the rewards for as long as they can, why not?

 

[ShropshireLad]

Keep it away from Robbie Fowler..

It was once reported that he was the richest man in football...as footballers go. This is because he put all of his surplus cash into property.

 

[Pagey]

I'm tempted to say that at that time we would have made it, in fact they, Fosun, and us have made it! Any buyer who could afford such an investment would not wish to waste it's money so it would continue running it on the same lines which would mean we would stay a successful business. What about a few shares I wonder?
But, my guess is Fosun will reap the rewards for as long as they can, why not?

I agree with everything you have said, suppose its witnessing the ups and downs over the years, that means i will always have a nagging doubt.
Anyways, gonna enjoy the ride and live every moment.

 

[WolfLing]

This is the only thing regarding Fosun that worry me-
They say they're in with their 10 year plan, but what if the value of Wolves increases to such a point, that Fosun say OK we're now at a level of return that we can now sell?

Better to have a chicken that lays gold eggs than sell the chicken.

The amount Fosun will continue to invest to make us competitive will mean they would only break even anyway.

They probably want to try and build something similar to what Man City have, albeit not as large. A global business/brand, with a huge turnover, that opens doors to large sponsorship, marketing and partnership deals. They may even leverage debt against us (like the Glazers have done at Man Utd) to provide an ongoing dividend for investors.

 

[Leominster_Wolf]

Those Fulham fans made me laugh. I don't think they have the first clue how ffp works. Less so than the rest of us.
It's clear from the accounts submitted by every team, that there must be some other breakdown that has to be submitted to the EFL or PL?
Given the amount of supposition by everyone, no one actual knows 100% the true picture and certainly not from the company accounts, which are after all for the good people of the HMRC and not the EFL - would be good to see the actual FFP figures so it can be clear to everyone.

 

[BristolInPeace]

Hi again.

My personal take is that you didn't break it, but you were close- within say a few £million over the 3 year period. Talking of FFP breachers, I wonder about Fulham...if their transfer profit fell last season then it could have been a tight squeeze.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Hi again.

My personal take is that you didn't break it, but you were close- within say a few £million over the 3 year period. Talking of FFP breachers, I wonder about Fulham...if their transfer profit fell last season then it could have been a tight squeeze.

Good luck with the remainder of the season and just finish above the ****.

 

[BristolInPeace]

Good luck with the remainder of the season and just finish above the ****.

And to yourselves- still my tip for best of the rest and maybe, you never know the Cup!

Finish above...that's one option. Beat them in the playoff final- that'd be even sweeter, no?

 

[Deleted member 3751]

Hi again.

My personal take is that you didn't break it, but you were close- within say a few £million over the 3 year period. Talking of FFP breachers, I wonder about Fulham...if their transfer profit fell last season then it could have been a tight squeeze.

Nothing wrong with being close . I think we all accept we were getting towards the limits and knew that no promotion would have meant a couple of star player sales last summer for us to continue this season.

Speaking of Fulham, they will get relegated with a crippling wage bill and will have some issues with FFP themselves, but with a bit of luck on your part you won't have to worry about them at all

All the best for the rest of the season

 

[Deleted member 3751]

Those Fulham fans made me laugh. I don't think they have the first clue how ffp works. Less so than the rest of us.
It's clear from the accounts submitted by every team, that there must be some other breakdown that has to be submitted to the EFL or PL?
Given the amount of supposition by everyone, no one actual knows 100% the true picture and certainly not from the company accounts, which are after all for the good people of the HMRC and not the EFL - would be good to see the actual FFP figures so it can be clear to everyone.

I think clubs just pass on their full financial results and the EFL then go through them. It's better than clubs submitting FFP projections as they could get er, creative with where they spent their money.

You're right about those Fulham fans though, clueless

 

[BristolInPeace]

Nothing wrong with being close . I think we all accept we were getting towards the limits and knew that no promotion would have meant a couple of star player sales last summer for us to continue this season.

Speaking of Fulham, they will get relegated with a crippling wage bill and will have some issues with FFP themselves, but with a bit of luck on your part you won't have to worry about them at all

All the best for the rest of the season

Yeah, plenty of clubs in the same boat no doubt- we were close to our limit hence the sale of Reid, Bryan, Flint etc. Done remarkably well considering the turnover IMO!

In reality, I think they probably did pass it but less likely than yourselves. Big trouble when they come down surely, though if the expensive signings go then it'd steady their ship a bit but likely to have issues. On paper, a blueprint of how not to do things- a year ago in no way did I think their side looked like a 2nd bottom PL one, yet they spent all that money and partly through lack of cohesion and a ridiculous churn seemed to get worse! Fingers crossed we'll be seeing you in the PL next year...

Yeah, same to you- hope you finish 7th and win the Cup.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

And to yourselves- still my tip for best of the rest and maybe, you never know the Cup!

Finish above...that's one option. Beat them in the playoff final- that'd be even sweeter, no?

That'd be wonderful,l then an away game in August at your place and a day on the beer in the sun.

 

[Ponty]

It was once reported that he was the richest man in football...as footballers go. This is because he put all of his surplus cash into property.

He invested a huge amount in property. City fans used to sing "We all live in a Robbie Fowler house!"

 

[ShropshireLad]

It was once reported that he was the richest man in football...as footballers go. This is because he put all of his surplus cash into property.

He invested a huge amount in property. City fans used to sing "We all live in a Robbie Fowler house!"

That's what I said!

 

[JadeWolf]

The club always said last year they were comfortable with where they were in terms of FFP. Fosun’s owners are very skilled and very successful business people so you’ve gotta trust them.

 

[Ponty]

That's what I said!

You didn’t reference that City fans sang about it!

 

[WickedWolfie]

And to yourselves- still my tip for best of the rest and maybe, you never know the Cup!

Finish above...that's one option. Beat them in the playoff final- that'd be even sweeter, no?

Nah, want them nowhere near. ... they have a horrible habit of fluking results when it matters... Sandwell and Handsworth are not a good day out lol

 

[WickedWolfie]

That'd be wonderful,l then an away game in August at your place and a day on the beer in the sun.

Sadly more likely Oct at Molineux and a wet Tue night fixture in Feb in Brizzle..

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Sadly more likely Oct at Molineux and a wet Tue night fixture in Feb in Brizzle..

True

 

[greco wolf]

He invested a huge amount in property. City fans used to sing "We all live in a Robbie Fowler house!"

Thought it was Liverpool fans who sang that

 

[ShropshireLad]

You didn’t reference that City fans sang about it!

OK. Fair point.

 

[Ponty]

Thought it was Liverpool fans who sang that

Quite possibly but I have high standards and don’t associate with them. My mate who is a City fan told me about it.

 

[WolfLing]

Swiss Ramble has crunched the numbers following our latest accounts (available on Twitter - link below). For those of you unfamiliar with his work, he is top class when it comes to commentary on footballing finances.

Swiss Ramble on Twitter

Some pretty high figures in there showing the extent of Fosun's ambitions.

No real cause for concern, other than this bit.....



Still nothing to worry about though, as EFL Regulations read as follows:

EFL FFP Reg 5.4: Any amounts claimed to be included within Contributions from Equity Participants and / or Related Party(ies) must have been invested during the relevant Reporting Period or by 1st December immediately following the end of that relevant Reporting Period.

Which basically means, although the equity doesn't show up in this set of accounts, as long as Fosun have put equity in up to 1st December 2018, we will be fine. If it was done this season, I don't think that will show until next year's accounts.

I'm almost certain we will be working against the £39m figure.

 

[Poztin]

To summarise, we likely passed FFP last year by £2m. As you were...