Question on our future and nuno

[Mrs E]

You may be right, just seems strange in his last year nothing has been said.

his contract runs till summer 2021, I can't see him even discussing it until the end of this season, he's too focussed on the games to come. If he hasn't signed by the start of 20/21 season maybe time to worry!

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

The notion that any employee of the club will outgrow them is something which sells the club short. Little wonder that many see things this way given the forty years of mismanagement which culminated in a club that had been at the top and even competed in the early European Cup (which we virtually invented in the UK) being seen as a club that could never make it to the very top. It can even in today's game.

What few fans anywhere in the country ever wants to address is the issue of ownership. What happens when the owners such as Fosun (who so far have been good for the club but will that be the case long term?) sell up? What is the long term plan involving the best coaching set up for decades? Who knows because we don't altogether know why they bought the club, (well we have a few pointers) and how long they will be here. Add in the Chinese political issue and it will always be one for the 'unsure' box to be ticked.

Nuno won't outgrow the club. He might outgrow the owners which isn't the same thing. A major factor in today's game is what happens when a club is sold but who gets it depends on issues not as important as the main one. Will any new owners have the right 'feel' for the club? Without the 'F' word (Fan ownership) that ownership issue will always be open to abuse.

What we really need by the summer is some statement of long term intent from Fosun. I reckon we need a ten year contract for Nuno and a pledge from Fosun that they intend to be here in ten years or more. Once Nuno's time is up, whether after that period, later or sooner if circumstances dictate then a policy is in place for a smooth transition to a new coach based on the 'Wolves way' to coin a phrase of doing things since Fosun took over. Too often in the past, both here and elsewhere, changes have been kneejerk 'make it up as we go along' types of policy.

No matter how good Fosun are they are not from Wolverhampton or have any long term history of the club and game in the UK. This means that by definition they will always see things differently. Now some of that might be a good thing but the good has to be put alongside the good already here and fits in with what the club means and is about.

 

[ShropshireLad]

his contract runs till summer 2021, I can't see him even discussing it until the end of this season, he's too focussed on the games to come. If he hasn't signed by the start of 20/21 season maybe time to worry!

Perhaps even through half way through next season might be the time for Fosun to have come to a conclusion about how much to reward him.

It made me laugh how The MUNters offered OGS a big contract so soon after they’d offered him a short term one - that was crass management.

 

[Wednesbury Wolf]

What we really need by the summer is some statement of long term intent from Fosun. I reckon we need a ten year contract for Nuno and a pledge from Fosun that they intend to be here in ten years or more.

I would like a long term contract for Nuno but not 10 years far too long, Fosun won't commit to anything why would they.

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

I would like a long term contract for Nuno but not 10 years far too long, Fosun won't commit to anything why would they.

Well I suppose the glib answer is why wouldn't they? The bit you replied to from that post needs taking in context to the rest of it. There is some precedent to long term dynasties being the way to go. We did with Buckley/Cullis and recently both Arsenal and Man Utd have done the same thing to good effect. A long time ago but it was the link between Cullis and Buckley and the relatively smooth transition post war when Cullis was AM to Vizard who he replaced in 1948. Neither Arsenal nor United have done as well since trying to replace Wenger or Ferguson.

If taken in context with the rest of my post the ten year contract fits with that argument.

I don't suggest Fosun will do that and we may see the five year short termism again, or at least mid term. Which raises the age old question on ownership as per some of that previously posted.

 

[Vicious Sid]

nuno had no problem playing attractive league winning football in the championship - there the club could go out and buy the best players.
Nowhere as easy to do that in the prem where we have imo 6 top players - rui , willy, ruben. joao, raul and adama when you probably need 12 in your squad be a title challenger.

 

[Sammy Chungs Tracksuit]

The notion that any employee of the club will outgrow them is something which sells the club short. Little wonder that many see things this way given the forty years of mismanagement which culminated in a club that had been at the top and even competed in the early European Cup (which we virtually invented in the UK) being seen as a club that could never make it to the very top. It can even in today's game.

What few fans anywhere in the country ever wants to address is the issue of ownership. What happens when the owners such as Fosun (who so far have been good for the club but will that be the case long term?) sell up? What is the long term plan involving the best coaching set up for decades? Who knows because we don't altogether know why they bought the club, (well we have a few pointers) and how long they will be here. Add in the Chinese political issue and it will always be one for the 'unsure' box to be ticked.

Nuno won't outgrow the club. He might outgrow the owners which isn't the same thing. A major factor in today's game is what happens when a club is sold but who gets it depends on issues not as important as the main one. Will any new owners have the right 'feel' for the club? Without the 'F' word (Fan ownership) that ownership issue will always be open to abuse.

What we really need by the summer is some statement of long term intent from Fosun. I reckon we need a ten year contract for Nuno and a pledge from Fosun that they intend to be here in ten years or more. Once Nuno's time is up, whether after that period, later or sooner if circumstances dictate then a policy is in place for a smooth transition to a new coach based on the 'Wolves way' to coin a phrase of doing things since Fosun took over. Too often in the past, both here and elsewhere, changes have been kneejerk 'make it up as we go along' types of policy.

No matter how good Fosun are they are not from Wolverhampton or have any long term history of the club and game in the UK. This means that by definition they will always see things differently. Now some of that might be a good thing but the good has to be put alongside the good already here and fits in with what the club means and is about.

I take your points about the need for a "long term plan" but when it comes to Wolves or football in general I always take such things with a very large pinch of salt. How many long term plans have been unveiled at Wolves over the years only to them to evaporate away to nothing as soon as the club hits a bumpy patch either on or off the pitch?

In the Moxey/Morgan years a "Long Term Plan" was usually euphamism for saying "investment will be limited so please remain patient and be prepared to put up with mediocrity in the short and medium term". The big hope was the academy but really it hasnt produced the goods that the pre-academy youth set up produced for us. How many players of the quality of say Matt Murray / Robbie Keane / Joleon Lescott have come through the ranks since the "long term plan" of the academy was unveiled?

For me well thought out medium and short term plans will result in better long term outcomes. Yes by all means develop the Compton facilities which pay off forever (and we should be thankful for Graham Taylor's vision for that far more than Morgan/Moxey). IMO the club need to focus properly on then next 1 to 3 years ahead and then the 5, 10 and 15 years ahead will take care of themselves.

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

I take your points about the need for a "long term plan" but when it comes to Wolves or football in general I always take such things with a very large pinch of salt. How many long term plans have been unveiled at Wolves over the years only to them to evaporate away to nothing as soon as the club hits a bumpy patch either on or off the pitch?

In the Moxey/Morgan years a "Long Term Plan" was usually euphamism for saying "investment will be limited so please remain patient and be prepared to put up with mediocrity in the short and medium term". The big hope was the academy but really it hasnt produced the goods that the pre-academy youth set up produced for us. How many players of the quality of say Matt Murray / Robbie Keane / Joleon Lescott have come through the ranks since the "long term plan" of the academy was unveiled?

For me well thought out medium and short term plans will result in better long term outcomes. Yes by all means develop the Compton facilities which pay off forever (and we should be thankful for Graham Taylor's vision for that far more than Morgan/Moxey). IMO the club need to focus properly on then next 1 to 3 years ahead and then the 5, 10 and 15 years ahead will take care of themselves.

Well yes but in the case of long term plans at Wolves for decades it's been a case of those making the plans were just not up to it. Today I think we have the best chance for many years to keep a coach and set up which would be exceptional. It's an opportunity that has presented itself inside three years in May since Nuno arrived. Since he came his percentage win rate of 53% beats every manager we have ever had including Cullis (47%) although Cullis did spend considerably more years here for that figure so it remains to be seen if Nuno is good enough to maintain that over a longer period.Also Cullis did it all in the top flight whilst Nuno had a second tier spell. No other manager since the PL was formed has come close to what Nuno has done here. Of course he has had more financial backing than most but chucking money at it doesn't always work and the right players have been bought in for the most part.

The longest serving manager since Turner was sacked in 1994 was Mick who spent six years here. His win % was just 38%. All others have spent less than three years in charge. I agree that Taylor was important in the youth set up and it's ironic you mention him. He was given just over a year here before being kicked out for the next Ferguson in the shape of McGee, who was here for three years. Considering these two and all the others they have all been short term fixes to get the club back in the PL. Once we got there (eventually) twice saw an embarrassment of attempts to compete. No real planning with credible back up. SJH spent much of his personal fortune but most of it was wasted by those spending it. He left it in his CEO ( mister short termism personified) hands largely from 2001 and by the time he had seen enough and sold it we got something which almost took the club back to the eighties.

There is no point having an expensive youth set up if we neither give them a chance or make sure that those being given a chance are worth the expense of that set up. Nuno has shown he is prepared to give them a chance the jury still out whether the youth set up will be good enough. So I agree there.

So for nearly twenty five years those short term people who were employed to take the club into the top flight failed abysmally because the only goal seemed to be getting into the PL without any real credibility about how we might stay there let alone win stuff. What we have now (subject to my earlier posts about ownership more generally) has not been seen here since 1980ish and that ended badly. We all know what happened but again it was a time when the board tried to build a team for the eighties with a new Molineux. None of it was joined up inside the club really and Barnwell left in acrimony and Marshall went after the financial meltdown.

I very much doubt that Fosun won't be up to finally furnishing a new Molineux whilst continuing improving the playing side. With them it's a matter of what they are here for, and what is it they want Molineux to be which might 'destroy' the club another 'global' way. Who knows?

Either way there is more evidence from both our most successful period to date and the recent Arsenal /Man Utd longevity management that a real plan, long term, will bring more success and for longer than short term 'let's get this season out of the way and see what happens' mentality. Ferguson was under pressure about two years into his time there for a sacking. They stuck with him.

If Nuno goes sooner rather than later, I reckon the chance of another real Wolves dynasty will have been lost for another generation or two. Such opportunities like the present for something really special only present once in a blue moon. It depends now on Jeff Shi and Fosun. Wiil they be up to being 'proper' football club owners who have learned of the traditions of the club coupled with the 21st C managerial and 'business' sense to see it through long term?

This is the year, going into the early part of next season we will really start to get the picture on all of this.

 

[lostwolf]

Jeez

Haha, no blubbing on the island. Except if they build that bridge?

 

[lostwolf]

Well yes but in the case of long term plans at Wolves for decades it's been a case of those making the plans were just not up to it. Today I think we have the best chance for many years to keep a coach and set up which would be exceptional. It's an opportunity that has presented itself inside three years in May since Nuno arrived. Since he came his percentage win rate of 53% beats every manager we have ever had including Cullis (47%) although Cullis did spend considerably more years here for that figure so it remains to be seen if Nuno is good enough to maintain that over a longer period.Also Cullis did it all in the top flight whilst Nuno had a second tier spell. No other manager since the PL was formed has come close to what Nuno has done here. Of course he has had more financial backing than most but chucking money at it doesn't always work and the right players have been bought in for the most part.

The longest serving manager since Turner was sacked in 1994 was Mick who spent six years here. His win % was just 38%. All others have spent less than three years in charge. I agree that Taylor was important in the youth set up and it's ironic you mention him. He was given just over a year here before being kicked out for the next Ferguson in the shape of McGee, who was here for three years. Considering these two and all the others they have all been short term fixes to get the club back in the PL. Once we got there (eventually) twice saw an embarrassment of attempts to compete. No real planning with credible back up. SJH spent much of his personal fortune but most of it was wasted by those spending it. He left it in his CEO ( mister short termism personified) hands largely from 2001 and by the time he had seen enough and sold it we got something which almost took the club back to the eighties.

There is no point having an expensive youth set up if we neither give them a chance or make sure that those being given a chance are worth the expense of that set up. Nuno has shown he is prepared to give them a chance the jury still out whether the youth set up will be good enough. So I agree there.

So for nearly twenty five years those short term people who were employed to take the club into the top flight failed abysmally because the only goal seemed to be getting into the PL without any real credibility about how we might stay there let alone win stuff. What we have now (subject to my earlier posts about ownership more generally) has not been seen here since 1980ish and that ended badly. We all know what happened but again it was a time when the board tried to build a team for the eighties with a new Molineux. None of it was joined up inside the club really and Barnwell left in acrimony and Marshall went after the financial meltdown.

I very much doubt that Fosun won't be up to finally furnishing a new Molineux whilst continuing improving the playing side. With them it's a matter of what they are here for, and what is it they want Molineux to be which might 'destroy' the club another 'global' way. Who knows?

Either way there is more evidence from both our most successful period to date and the recent Arsenal /Man Utd longevity management that a real plan, long term, will bring more success and for longer than short term 'let's get this season out of the way and see what happens' mentality. Ferguson was under pressure about two years into his time there for a sacking. They stuck with him.

If Nuno goes sooner rather than later, I reckon the chance of another real Wolves dynasty will have been lost for another generation or two. Such opportunities like the present for something really special only present once in a blue moon. It depends now on Jeff Shi and Fosun. Wiil they be up to being 'proper' football club owners who have learned of the traditions of the club coupled with the 21st C managerial and 'business' sense to see it through long term?

This is the year, going into the early part of next season we will really start to get the picture on all of this.

But can you expand on that a bit please?

 

[merseawolf]

Haha, no blubbing on the island. Except if they build that bridge?

Keep the tourists out!
Hope you are well mate

 

[WinchWolf]

his contract runs till summer 2021, I can't see him even discussing it until the end of this season, he's too focussed on the games to come. If he hasn't signed by the start of 20/21 season maybe time to worry!

True was confirmed in July 2018 Nuno Signs Until 2021

 

[Fifty Niner]

When Wolves crashed down the leagues, with Moxey once stating after we'd being relegated to the Championship that we had a 5 year plan, the only thing Thelwell, Moxey and Morgan got right it seemed was appointing Jackett (did brilliantly to get us out of League One given all the pressure of expectation on him).

Now Thelwell's on his way perhaps he wasn't so bad after all! Funny old game, football. Funny old game.

 

[oldgoldheart]

Well yes but in the case of long term plans at Wolves for decades it's been a case of those making the plans were just not up to it. Today I think we have the best chance for many years to keep a coach and set up which would be exceptional. It's an opportunity that has presented itself inside three years in May since Nuno arrived. Since he came his percentage win rate of 53% beats every manager we have ever had including Cullis (47%) although Cullis did spend considerably more years here for that figure so it remains to be seen if Nuno is good enough to maintain that over a longer period.Also Cullis did it all in the top flight whilst Nuno had a second tier spell. No other manager since the PL was formed has come close to what Nuno has done here. Of course he has had more financial backing than most but chucking money at it doesn't always work and the right players have been bought in for the most part.

The longest serving manager since Turner was sacked in 1994 was Mick who spent six years here. His win % was just 38%. All others have spent less than three years in charge. I agree that Taylor was important in the youth set up and it's ironic you mention him. He was given just over a year here before being kicked out for the next Ferguson in the shape of McGee, who was here for three years. Considering these two and all the others they have all been short term fixes to get the club back in the PL. Once we got there (eventually) twice saw an embarrassment of attempts to compete. No real planning with credible back up. SJH spent much of his personal fortune but most of it was wasted by those spending it. He left it in his CEO ( mister short termism personified) hands largely from 2001 and by the time he had seen enough and sold it we got something which almost took the club back to the eighties.

There is no point having an expensive youth set up if we neither give them a chance or make sure that those being given a chance are worth the expense of that set up. Nuno has shown he is prepared to give them a chance the jury still out whether the youth set up will be good enough. So I agree there.

So for nearly twenty five years those short term people who were employed to take the club into the top flight failed abysmally because the only goal seemed to be getting into the PL without any real credibility about how we might stay there let alone win stuff. What we have now (subject to my earlier posts about ownership more generally) has not been seen here since 1980ish and that ended badly. We all know what happened but again it was a time when the board tried to build a team for the eighties with a new Molineux. None of it was joined up inside the club really and Barnwell left in acrimony and Marshall went after the financial meltdown.

I very much doubt that Fosun won't be up to finally furnishing a new Molineux whilst continuing improving the playing side. With them it's a matter of what they are here for, and what is it they want Molineux to be which might 'destroy' the club another 'global' way. Who knows?

Either way there is more evidence from both our most successful period to date and the recent Arsenal /Man Utd longevity management that a real plan, long term, will bring more success and for longer than short term 'let's get this season out of the way and see what happens' mentality. Ferguson was under pressure about two years into his time there for a sacking. They stuck with him.

If Nuno goes sooner rather than later, I reckon the chance of another real Wolves dynasty will have been lost for another generation or two. Such opportunities like the present for something really special only present once in a blue moon. It depends now on Jeff Shi and Fosun. Wiil they be up to being 'proper' football club owners who have learned of the traditions of the club coupled with the 21st C managerial and 'business' sense to see it through long term?

This is the year, going into the early part of next season we will really start to get the picture on all of this.

I agree with your view. I hope it works out. I am worried about jeff shi running everything. We need a proper leadership structure. I fear nuno might leave and if he does so in the next two years i am not confident we would build on his legacy.

 

[goldeneyed]

I would like a long term contract for Nuno but not 10 years far too long, Fosun won't commit to anything why would they.

Too long? We will be very lucky if we can keep hold of Nuno for a significant period. I am hoping he will agree to a three year extension when the current contract ends at the end of next season.

 

[ombyman]

We are Nuno's project, simple as. All football in the club is currently played according to his idea of football. All the players signed fit his idea both in skills and in application.

He's not the first one to give something like this a go in a football club. But - and it is a very big "but" in Nuno's favour - the leader must have followers in such schema. Nuno does have them - in players and his staff first and foremost, then also in the board and in us. You can see even in the players' interview for the press how much his way of thinking is now theirs.

This is really precious, precious and rare and Nuno knows it - hence I don't believe he will walk off from this job. Of course there may be an offer even he can't refuse but the clubs he's been linked so far (Arsenal, Everton) are not appealing enough to lure him out. The situation is precious not only for Nuno. Having that kind of synergy in the group of people lets them overachieve and being greater as a whole than the sum of the parts.

So, I for one am hoping he's here for a very long haul.

Agree, but what if we lose 5 in a row and the atmosphere turns sour and the Twitter fans are calling for his head. Football can turn nasty very quickly!

 

[Sammy Chungs Tracksuit]

If Nuno goes sooner rather than later, I reckon the chance of another real Wolves dynasty will have been lost for another generation or two. Such opportunities like the present for something really special only present once in a blue moon. It depends now on Jeff Shi and Fosun. Wiil they be up to being 'proper' football club owners who have learned of the traditions of the club coupled with the 21st C managerial and 'business' sense to see it through long term?

I kind of agree about the importance of keeping Nuno but it really depends on how Nuno sees his future so Fosun have to plan for the succession just in case. The other thing is that when managers stay at clubs a long time then quite often croney-ism and an inner circle mindset starts to creep in to the detriment of the club as a whole. IMO that happened big time under McCarthy. There are very few managers who can keep a club successful for an extended period. Fergusson being the obvious example. Wenger may have been at Arsenal for a long time but for the last 10 years or so were not really that competitive.