Molineux redevelopment

[Air Wolf 90]

Presumably if the earlybird is to continue any decision would need to be made, provisionally at least so the offer of any seats that may be affected by the re-build are conditional, before they're put on sale.

Also, we'd need more than the current outline planning permission.

Worth remembering that this stand is the most "solid" of the stands being made from a concrete frame in common with many buildings of the time and also includes a relatively large 'office' structure which was previously used by the University. Demolition won't be very rapid, nor will construction as it is built into the natural incline on that side which will complicate matters somewhat.

While I'd like to be proved wrong, can't see this happening in 2018..

 

[RosehillWolf]

Yep, Milton and Auchenflower was where we went. It was terrible. I can still remember the smell of that mud.

Small world indeed

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

No offence guys but could you take the Aussie conversation onto another thread?

 

[Uncle Festa]

Also, we'd need more than the current outline planning permission.

Worth remembering that this stand is the most "solid" of the stands being made from a concrete frame in common with many buildings of the time and also includes a relatively large 'office' structure which was previously used by the University. Demolition won't be very rapid, nor will construction as it is built into the natural incline on that side which will complicate matters somewhat.

While I'd like to be proved wrong, can't see this happening in 2018..

Nor me. Not sure how the planning side of things worked for the original build. Was Phase 1 and 2 on different applications? Did Phase 2 have to be built within a certain time frame for the planning to still be valid? Lots of questions I don't know the anwser to, but the demolition isn't going to be easy. Seem to remember as well that no one is sure where the foundations are for the existing Steve Bull until its knocked down and uncovered. As such it could get very complicated trying to put new piles down to miss an existing footprint of piles. Basically the projected budget could get blown out the water which was another reason why Morgan pulled the plug.

 

[TeddyWolf]

Nor me. Not sure how the planning side of things worked for the original build. Was Phase 1 and 2 on different applications? Did Phase 2 have to be built within a certain time frame for the planning to still be valid? Lots of questions I don't know the anwser to, but the demolition isn't going to be easy. Seem to remember as well that no one is sure where the foundations are for the existing Steve Bull until its knocked down and uncovered. As such it could get very complicated trying to put new piles down to miss an existing footprint of piles. Basically the projected budget could get blown out the water which was another reason why Morgan pulled the plug.

I don't think there was ever a full planning application made for phase 2. But presumably they were told this would be a formality.

So in your opinion would it make sense to install a large temporary stand along the touchline? Others have suggested this would be impractical so close to a building site. Given the potential issues with the demolition and rebuilding you've outlined, it would be asking a lot to get even the lower tier open any time during the 2018-19 season.

 

[Air Wolf 90]

Nor me. Not sure how the planning side of things worked for the original build. Was Phase 1 and 2 on different applications? Did Phase 2 have to be built within a certain time frame for the planning to still be valid? Lots of questions I don't know the anwser to, but the demolition isn't going to be easy. Seem to remember as well that no one is sure where the foundations are for the existing Steve Bull until its knocked down and uncovered. As such it could get very complicated trying to put new piles down to miss an existing footprint of piles. Basically the projected budget could get blown out the water which was another reason why Morgan pulled the plug.

I think they were awarded outline planning permission for the new Steve Bull Stand only (i.e. an indication that the plans were likely to be approved if submitted; you wouldn't want to embark on what was a full stadium rebuild at the time without it). This will probably have expired anyway and, in any case, new plans are likely to be sufficiently different to require a full resubmission in any case.

I sometimes wonder if you'd attempt a south bank rebuild first; at that end of the stadium access is always going to be a problem but this would actually get worse following the construction of a new Steve Bull Stand which is closer to the pitch and presumably joins the North Bank. This would be a much quicker stand to build (the lower half would be built into the natural 'bank' (those of us around in the early 90s will remember just how quickly that stand was constructed)). There'd probably be no corporate facilities (these would be difficult to incorporate anyway given that bank restricts space behind the seats (unless it was significantly larger than the current structure), the lack of matchday carparking for your rich guests and the 'enthusiastic' support at that end) and a single tier (again as a result of fan's wishes (plus the logistics of incorportaing such facilities there anyway). Would give you a capacity boost prior to the Steve Bull redevlopment.

 

[wolvesjoe]

Also, I'm not arguing to knock down the stadium, i just feel it would be the best option imo.
t.

LOL. It is obviously what you are arguing. And fair enough is that is what you think.

But let's be clear that would mean groundsharing or moving Molineux. Either a disaster as far as I am
concerned. And I suspect Fosun too, given that they seem to have a very clear understanding
of the importance of legacy, tradition and the aura of the club.

 

[cannockwolf]

I have never been able to work out the 50000 figure either, although one can get quite close to it:

a. New Steve Bull leads to extra 5000.
b. Three completed corners leads to extra 4000.
c. Raised South Bank leads to extra 3000.

Extra twelve thousand on 31700 equals 43700, with all those figures based on
exptrapolations of % increase when the North Bank was replaced.

That would leave the possibility of an extra 5000 if the Billy Wright was replaced at
some point, so 48700.

So perhaps the rumor that they are putting an extra tear on the north bank has some weight, it would mean all the other stands would have to be taller to match it increasing the capacity to above 50k??

 

[Air Wolf 90]

So perhaps the rumor that they are putting an extra tear on the north bank has some weight, it would mean all the other stands would have to be taller to match it increasing the capacity to above 50k??

I think that capacity required a pretty enormous new Billy Wright Stand and was never a serious proposition outside of being a status signal by Morgan.

I can't see any logical reason for another tier on the NB at this stage.

 

[greco wolf]

I think that capacity required a pretty enormous new Billy Wright Stand and was never a serious proposition outside of being a status signal by Morgan.

I can't see any logical reason for another tier on the NB at this stage.

Yep. I’m sure another tier on the north bank would be a major piece of work. They’d have to build a new roof and supports to match

Much easier to build a bigger Steve Bull stand and link them.

 

[Lofty wolf]

I think they were awarded outline planning permission for the new Steve Bull Stand only (i.e. an indication that the plans were likely to be approved if submitted; you wouldn't want to embark on what was a full stadium rebuild at the time without it). This will probably have expired anyway and, in any case, new plans are likely to be sufficiently different to require a full resubmission in any case.

I sometimes wonder if you'd attempt a south bank rebuild first; at that end of the stadium access is always going to be a problem but this would actually get worse following the construction of a new Steve Bull Stand which is closer to the pitch and presumably joins the North Bank. This would be a much quicker stand to build (the lower half would be built into the natural 'bank' (those of us around in the early 90s will remember just how quickly that stand was constructed)). There'd probably be no corporate facilities (these would be difficult to incorporate anyway given that bank restricts space behind the seats (unless it was significantly larger than the current structure), the lack of matchday carparking for your rich guests and the 'enthusiastic' support at that end) and a single tier (again as a result of fan's wishes (plus the logistics of incorportaing such facilities there anyway). Would give you a capacity boost prior to the Steve Bull redevlopment.

I've said this before about doing South Bank first then Steve Bull.
Take the roof off this summer, extend back to Molineux Hotel
Therefore your keeping capacity , bar few hundred during expansion and hopefully incorporating safe standing areas.
Then develop Steve Bull stand only losing a small proportion of the overall capacity

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

Not a great deal I can add in addition to that which I have already posted.

What I always find a bit disappointing is the 'We need to build like X Y or Z 'have. Almost as if the mentality of so many now is that Molineux and WWFC have nothing of value. That Molinuex (and the playing side) isn't 'big' enough to modernise in its own image.

The club, or Molinuex, doesn't have to be the 'new' anything. It has to be, and has enough history and tradition with a few Architectural legacies still in place, (the best being Molineux House.) to add a bit of 'lest we forget' image.

There needs to be more 'We are the first Wolverhampton Wanderers' rather than the Man City of the Midlands, or the 'Barca of the Midlands' or any other second best labels.

The club has been first on many issues over the past hundred odd years and that needs to continue.

 

[Deleted member 4023]

So perhaps the rumor that they are putting an extra tear on the north bank has some weight, it would mean all the other stands would have to be taller to match it increasing the capacity to above 50k??

The ground would be even more lopsided than it currently is.

 

[TeddyWolf]

The ground would be even more lopsided than it currently is.

Would make more sense to extend the existing upper tier rather than add a third. And presumably this would be the last thing done and only if there was demand.

 

[Darvo]

I think the North Bank is a fine stand. Lets just continue the development Morgan planned with some consultation with the fans.

I think it’s one of the worst stands I’ve ever sat in (and I’m a long time North Banker). Primarily, this is based on the lack of atmosphere and angle of roof/protection from bad weather.

 

[Darvo]

April 28 is a relatively early last day for a home game. I wonder if the club requested to finish the season with an away
game with this in mind. That would be impressive and confident thinking.

It would also give a potential 16 months until the first game of the 2018/19 season's first home game. An awful lot of construction can take place in that time.

I might be being incredibly thick here , but if our last home game of the 2017/2018 season is April 28th 2018, then how does that give us 16 months before the first home game of the 2018/19 season which would kick off in early August 2018?

 

[Darvo]

LOL. It is obviously what you are arguing. And fair enough is that is what you think.

But let's be clear that would mean groundsharing or moving Molineux. Either a disaster as far as I am
concerned. And I suspect Fosun too, given that they seem to have a very clear understanding
of the importance of legacy, tradition and the aura of the club.

Not sure I understand your logic here. Why would a total re-build of Molineux mean groundsharing or moving Molineux? SJH rebuilt the whole stadium (bar one stand) and unless I’ve been seriously disoriented for the last 20 odd years , don’t think it moved far?

 

[wolvesjoe]

I might be being incredibly thick here , but if our last home game of the 2017/2018 season is April 28th 2018, then how does that give us 16 months before the first home game of the 2018/19 season which would kick off in early August 2018?

lol. Fosun have a time travel device they want to try.

 

[Pengwern]

Now here's the modern version of a traditional Football ground:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=f...eB7uvXAhXO2qQKHasnAG0QsAQIQA&biw=1599&bih=891

 

[Deleted member 3604]

Now here's the modern version of a traditional Football ground:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=f...eB7uvXAhXO2qQKHasnAG0QsAQIQA&biw=1599&bih=891

Which they don't fill.

 

[SanFranWolf]

Now here's the modern version of a traditional Football ground:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=f...eB7uvXAhXO2qQKHasnAG0QsAQIQA&biw=1599&bih=891

I like how the roof slopes forwards at the front - gives it a vintage feel.

I was thinking about your post Peng and whilst I'm not sure how it might be designed, a traditional version of an ultra modern stadium would really stand out as something different.

Whilst very nice and everything I can't think of a new stadium build in recent year that I've found jaw droppingly inspiring.

 

[SanFranWolf]

Thought this was an interesting old picture..

 

[SanFranWolf]

and this...

 

[Ginger Chimp]

Thought this was interesting old picture..

What’s not clear, for younger viewers, is that the construction site is the one side of the road (Molineux Street) and the original Molineux Street stand is over on the the other side of the street (out of shot) still in use (I think). That’s how far the new stand was built away from the pitch (although they did move the pitch a bit).

 

[turner845]

What’s not clear, for younger viewers, is that the construction site is the one side of the road (Molineux Street) and the original Molineux Street stand is over on the the other side of the street (out of shot) still in use (I think). That’s how far the new stand was built away from the pitch (although they did move the pitch a bit).

The photos also show how much of a concrete monstrosity the stand actually is and how much concrete actually was used to build it. This will also slow the demolition process down and is one of the major reasons as to why a new Steve Bull stand will take 2 years to complete.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

and this...

Brings back memories, used to go up there on Sunday's and climb in a play in the stand as kids.

 

[Real K ford Wolf]

I haven’t posted on here for ages but always read daily even hourly at times but this post is bang on the money. We have something special let’s not copy all the rest we are Wolverhampton Wanderers we have tradition we have street cred we have value. Let the development follow what we have started with thought given too weatherproofing
the current North Bank. The exterior of the Northbank is smart and understated the interior is first class the seating area offers good viewing with the exception of the quadrant upper. The atmosphere has more to do with the football on the pitch and the fact that the corners when filled in as planned will encase the sound.This season despite the age of the average North Banker being mature and with significant corporates present has been ten times better than recent seasons.
As long as the South Bank when refurbished is a single tear the rest of the stadium when corners joined will be an awesome wall of sound but only as long as the football on the pitch is as good as we are currently watching or better.Finally we need our corporate supporters as they pay significant sums of money for tickets sponsorships etc and quite a few are mad keen Wolves fans not just prawn ****tail eaters. How do I know this well because I am one of them but my season ticket cost £1050 pounds for the season in WV1 Bar and I like many others follow our team home and away

 

[SanFranWolf]

This one of the Billy Wright shows the difference in the building materials between it and the John Ireland stand quite well.

 

[SanFranWolf]

What’s not clear, for younger viewers, is that the construction site is the one side of the road (Molineux Street) and the original Molineux Street stand is over on the the other side of the street (out of shot) still in use (I think). That’s how far the new stand was built away from the pitch (although they did move the pitch a bit).

Here's a better angle that shows that aspect...

 

[SanFranWolf]

Here's a good one of the South Bank that shows how it's built into the hill.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

Here's one showing the gap between the new stand and the old Molineux Street Stand

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

Another showing the gap - and that touchline has already been moved over

 

[Deleted member 3604]

Here's one showing the gap between the new stand and the old Molineux Street Stand

Maybe I'm slightly mad but there is something quite beautiful about that old stand. It seems more personal than what was built behind it. The brickwork and those heavy wooden doors facing onto the street. Different era, less cars probably more of a community feel and inside you would see the great Wolverhampton Wanderers. Must have been wonderful in the fifties and sixties.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

Maybe I'm slightly mad but there is something quite beautiful about that old stand. It seems more personal than what was built behind it. The brickwork and those heavy wooden doors facing onto the street. Different era, less cars probably more of a community feel and inside you would see the great Wolverhampton Wanderers. Must have been wonderful in the fifties and sixties.

My guess is the roof was designed like that because of the slope.

 

[Deleted member 3604]

My guess is the roof was designed like that because of the slope.

Quite, but it was just the way these structures were made. They were community structures and not monoliths of consumerism. The supporter rather than the customer. Much like the High Street in the days before the malls. Different feel about them ..

 

[Jonzy54]

Here's one showing the gap between the new stand and the old Molineux Street Stand

That's a great pic

 

[Jonzy54]

Maybe I'm slightly mad but there is something quite beautiful about that old stand. It seems more personal than what was built behind it. The brickwork and those heavy wooden doors facing onto the street. Different era, less cars probably more of a community feel and inside you would see the great Wolverhampton Wanderers. Must have been wonderful in the fifties and sixties.

Charlton had a similar shaped stand at the Valley

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

What was the capacity of the Molineux Street stand - must have been pretty small I would have thought?

 

[Deleted member 3604]

Charlton had a similar shaped stand at the Valley

Roker Park, Ayresome Park, Baseball Ground there are so many ... even Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge .. Highbury

 

[Jonzy54]

What was the capacity of the Molineux Street stand - must have been pretty small I would have thought?

Weren't the rough figures ,based on 54,000 ish
South Bank 30,000 ish
North Bank 11,000 ish
Waterloo Rd 8,000 ish
Molineux St 5,000 ish