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Joao Palhinha & Mendes

jwolfie91

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I don’t get the fascination with it. He’s nowhere near good enough on the ball to sit in the midfield. There’s a difference between being able to hit cross field balls and being able to take a touch under pressure and see intricate passes through the middle. He’s not a ball winner either.

It’s just a crazy idea. Not good crazy.
Coady himself has said he struggled in the midfield at times. He'd been fodder in the Prem. Slow feet, not a good short range passer. Shudder at the thought
 

jwolfie91

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He is in the essence of the position he will take up on paper but in terms of their attributes that they offer they are very different. Palhihna is more like Matic, tall strong defensive midfielder who wins all his 1v1's with a not neves level but decent passing range and technique where as Neves is a a Jorginho type defensive midfielder, deep playmaker type with outstanding technique and range of pass whilst being okay defensively but normally performs better when next to a Matic type.

The club clearly wants to alter what our midfield options bring to the table based off players we are linked to like Palhihna, Nico, Nunes, Sanches, Decoure it sounds like we want a excellent defensive player who can drop back infront of the defence to protect them whilst alongside him is someone good defensively but can carry the ball forward and break the lines to create panic and space for us to run into, two roles we currently have nobody suited to doing.
Great assessment, why I raised Cheik in the other thread. Workrate monster with great feet who excels in splitting lines with his passing. Next to a proper snotter in Palhinha he'd been amazing. Sadly Palace and Arsenal sniffing around
 

StefanWolves

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Coady wasn’t good enough to play in centre mid in the championship.

He’s far too slow and lacks the ability to play further forward, at centre half in a 5 he gets the time and space to make his raking passes in centre midfield he’d have to earn those two things.
Either he moves position, is dropped, or is sold. Neither of those two latter options will happen. Therefore we are stuck with a back 5

I’m just trying to think of ways to fix the Coady problem of being stuck with this bloody back 5.
 

TheConcourse

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Either he moves position, is dropped, or is sold. Neither of those two latter options will happen. Therefore we are stuck with a back 5

I’m just trying to think of ways to fix the Coady problem of being stuck with this bloody back 5.
Less concerned with a back 5 and more concerned about the people in the structure.

For me Coady will always need to be the deepest in the side to mitigate against his lack of pace. There were signs as early as day one last season where Vardy ripped him apart as we started to be a little more open and expansive.

Leader or not, from a purely footballing perspective he would be nowhere near the top half of the PL in a more attacking side.

One of the biggest decisions of the summer IMO if Bruno ever wants to go to a back four. I don’t see him going. They’ll perceive that as too much of a risk with other senior pros departing.
 

Plastic Shrapnel

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I'm just trying to think of ways to fix the Coady problem of being stuck with this bloody back 5.
You play 3-4-3 like we did in the Championship, with the wing backs pushing forward and playing a high line more often.

The middle two of the 4 has one deep lying and anchoring the back 3 (what Saiss and N'Diaye did) and you have an expressive number 8 (Neves in the early days) who plays through a pacey and mobile front line, that are narrower, which gives the wingbacks the channels to run into.

One of the problems for me was the purchase of Traore, because our system changed, and the widemen of the three became wingers rather than being that Jota type wideman, being no further wide than the 18 yard box and finding the space between the fullback and centrehalf.
 

SoCal_Wolf

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It doesn't also have the element of risk attached.....think it would take big money at the back to change it myself....

Signing for instance, inacio the young centre back, probably wouldn't be enough to do that in my opinion and chucking a young lad into a back 4 situation could be very costly...

I think it's more realistic to find more a few more goals from wide forwards, more physicality and legs in midfield etc , than a wholesale system changed.....maybe look at it in certain situations, against lesser teams at home (maybe)......

If we signed the kid centre back Inacio , let him bed into the club n system first before wholesale change.

We would be cannon fodder to the better teams, over half of the league with a back 4 , without a system that was designed to frustrate teams..
I think that the plan would be to utilize both systems depending on the opposition or game situation. So, against teams where we feel that we can dominate possession, then we get an extra attacker on to help break down the defense; but against the top teams, we play more counter attacking football using that hybrid 5-3-2 (but having a better option than Donk on the right side).

We’ve also seen Bruno go to a back four when chasing games—we would go to this more readily I think anytime we need to push for a goal (to win, not just to draw). The five sub rule will help here, but we still need more pace at the back and in the midfield to be more committed in attack.

So, there is still space for Coady in the near future and the use of three center backs more often than not, IMO. Depending on how the younger center backs develop (Mosquera, Toti, Lonwijk, new CB, even Kilman), then we can maybe move on from a back five…
 

jwolfie91

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You play 3-4-3 like we did in the Championship, with the wing backs pushing forward and playing a high line more often.

The middle two of the 4 has one deep lying and anchoring the back 3 (what Saiss and N'Diaye did) and you have an expressive number 8 (Neves in the early days) who plays through a pacey and mobile front line, that are narrower, which gives the wingbacks the channels to run into.

One of the problems for me was the purchase of Traore, because our system changed, and the widemen of the three became wingers rather than being that Jota type wideman, being no further wide than the 18 yard box and finding the space between the fullback and centrehalf.
Then why are we so awful without him? We had a pretty deep line in the championship, don't need to protect your back 5 as much either in Champ.

Jota wasn't massively effective in the
3 4 3 we played before Adama got in much. We only switched to 3 5 2 later in first season.

Big revisionist history
 

Kebab Warrior

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You play 3-4-3 like we did in the Championship, with the wing backs pushing forward and playing a high line more often.

The middle two of the 4 has one deep lying and anchoring the back 3 (what Saiss and N'Diaye did) and you have an expressive number 8 (Neves in the early days) who plays through a pacey and mobile front line, that are narrower, which gives the wingbacks the channels to run into.

One of the problems for me was the purchase of Traore, because our system changed, and the widemen of the three became wingers rather than being that Jota type wideman, being no further wide than the 18 yard box and finding the space between the fullback and centrehalf.
Bang on
 

Oh Robbie Robie

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I'm puzzled why some football fans think we're only going to set up to play in one style in this day and age. Surely, we need different formations at different times to tackle what our opponents are doing? Our team needs to be flexible and be able to change several times in one game if necessary. We need a variety of players who are able to play different positions and roles.
 

Eastern Wolf

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I watched a rerun of this seasons champions league match yesterday :Sporting vs Ajax where Ajax won 1-5. Of course with rumours pointing to us and Joao Palhino, I was keeping a close eye on him. Thoughtout the game, he looked slow, didn't particularly ever show for the ball, weak in the tackle and didn't pass with any great vision. He spent the game patrolling the space infront of the defense and didn't venture forward ever. He never busted a gut to close anyone down nor try to join in the attack. It was also noticeable that his team mates hardly passed to him despite him being the obvious outlet. A far cry from the all action battling midfield general that he's been made out to be by some. Neves is far far superior in every aspect. I don't even see that he's better than Donk in anyway.
It was only one game, but cant say that I was impressed. I hope it was just a one-off poor performance from him. At 26, he is no longer "young" and other teams haven't taken the plunge. Maybe for good reason.
I trust that we have done our scouting and due diligence on him if we eventually do end up buying him.
But I am more than a little concerned. Can anyone (who has actually watched him recently) reassure me otherwise?
 
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Oh When the Wolves

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I watched a rerun of this seasons champions league match yesterday :Sporting vs Ajax where Ajax won 1-5. Of course with rumours pointing to us and Joao Palhino, I was keeping a close eye on him. Thoughtout the game, he looked slow, didn't particularly ever show for the ball, weak in the tackle and didn't pass with any great vision. He spent the game patrolling the space infront of the defense and didn't venture forward ever. He never busted a gut to close anyone down nor try to join in the attack. It was also noticeable that his team mates hardly passed to him despite him being the obvious outlet. A far cry from the all action battling midfield general that he's been made out to be by some. Neves is far far superior in every aspect. I don't even see that he's better than Donk in anyway.
It was only one game, but cant say that I was impressed. I hope it was just a one-off poor performance from him. At 26, he is no longer "young" and other teams haven't taken the plunge. Maybe for good reason.
I trust that we have done our scouting and due diligence on him if we eventually do end up buying him.
But I am more than a little concerned. Can anyone (who has actually watched him recently) reassure me otherwise?
Can’t remember which match in the euros but he was brilliant
 
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