Fitness

[derbyrameater]

How many weeks would it take for the Players to get fit enough to last 90 mins at pace and mental alertness?


I ask the because I believe lack of fitness is a major contributor to our problems.

 

[Fenrir_]

I agree they look like they're unfit, think our drop off after the hour mark yesterday was as much to do with fitness as anything

Personally don't think we'll be able to do a great deal before the World Cup, especially with so many other things going on. So muddle through, give them two weeks off when we hit the break then get them back in for the mid pre-season and have them firing when we restart against Everton

 

[Beastier]

Said exactly the same to my mates after Saturday's game - whoever comes in should use the world cup break as an opportunity for a mini-preseason to improve the fitness of those not involved at the tournament.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

I agree
We do seem to tire a lot after 70 minutes or so,and that was one of our strengths a few seasons ago
We always outlasted teams and finished strongly but now we always hanging on unless the opposition eases up
Maybe we dont have the subs to bring on that others do but that doesnt explain the drop off

 

[SA Wolf]

I also agree and guess that it's because training doesn't motivate the players, so they are not putting everything into training/fitness/conditioning. Jonny intimated as much.
Stan Cullis would have them running up the South Bank all day!
Just hope that whoever comes in sees as much and gets them working harder away from the pitch.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

When you watch the way other teams press and work to win back the ball it puts our players to shame. We don't press at all and wait for a bad pass to get the ball back. For me this comes down to Lage's tactics and the physical training where the players just seem to tire too easily. Both of these defects can and hopefully will be remedied by the appointment of a new manager.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I think it's intensity as opposed to fitness.

Also, the major issue with all of this is the midfield. Neves has the fitness but not really the speed but the real problem is Moutinho. Can you press fully with him in the midfield? I don't think so.

On Saturday Nunes was effectively a striker out of possession, making it a 4-4-2 but whenever he and Costa got close, the midfield didn't follow.

Collins and Kilman should give us the base to push up and decent recovery speed.

Traore comes in for Moutinho and I think we instantly become significantly better off the ball.

 

[Ned]

It’s been like this for a while. I’ve noticed it under Bruno more but I think that’s because he tried getting us to press high and aggressively from time to time. Nuno’s last season didn’t we have the least ground covered per match or something like that?

It’s obviously fixable but not instantly. Maybe increasing training intensity little by little would help but the World Cup will put pay to anything sustained.

 

[Skrilla]

Under Nuno it felt like they'd run through walls for 90 minutes, under Bruno it felt like they struggled to do it for an hour. We've heard about the lack of intensity in training by comparison, wouldn't surprise me if it was just down to better conditioning.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Normally 2/3 weeks of hard fitness work for a player can become good fitness levels

 

[GoldenHorseshoe]

How many weeks would it take for the Players to get fit enough to last 90 mins at pace and mental alertness?


I ask the because I believe lack of fitness is a major contributor to our problems.

I've no idea how long a professional player would take to reach optimal fitness, it took me 10 weeks to train for riding the Cabot Trail. then again I am 70+

On a serious note lack of fitness is known to contribute to injuries, which we've experienced recently.

 

[Flump]

Nuno’s last season didn’t we have the least ground covered per match or something like that?

Yes, but this is almost entirely because we had a very rigid formation and didn't press all over the pitch.

 

[Ned]

Yes, but this is almost entirely because we had a very rigid formation and didn't press all over the pitch.

Agreed, we had no interest in pushing up and winning the ball back high. It wasn't negative it was just the tactic we used to mostly good effect. I'm just wondering whether, even a few seasons on, the individual player fitness level is still lower than it should be because of this. Dropping deep, staying in shape and zonal marking/marking space gives far more recovery time between sprints.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Under Nuno it felt like they'd run through walls for 90 minutes, under Bruno it felt like they struggled to do it for an hour. We've heard about the lack of intensity in training by comparison, wouldn't surprise me if it was just down to better conditioning.

Apart from in the first half.......but yes we was always strong at the end of a game....but we definitely reserved energy in the he first half.....it was a tactic......we wasn't full pelt for 90 mins...

 

[Skrilla]

Apart from in the first half.......but yes we was always strong at the end of a game....but we definitely reserved energy in the he first half.....it was a tactic......we wasn't full pelt for 90 mins...

That's true, half press counter attacking style meant more left in the tank. We pressed quite well on Saturday but you could tell in the last 15-20 minutes the legs were tiring as we let them back into it, that's where squad depth comes into play.

 

[lets all have a disco]

That's true, half press counter attacking style meant more left in the tank. We pressed quite well on Saturday but you could tell in the last 15-20 minutes the legs were tiring as we let them back into it, that's where squad depth comes into play.

Yes ....the fitness is definitely down on Nuno team......maybe it's conditioning as apposed to training.....

But some of the players, thinking Rayan and maybe semedo struggled for 90mins fitness under Nuno as well.....

Jonny isn't going to be as fit as he was under Nuno cause of the injuries....mouts is older......maybe it's running round like headless chickens under Lage as apposed to the training schedule.....

Neves look fitter to me under Lage......so maybe it's not just the training and there are other factors....tactics, injury catching up....maybe ..

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Yes ....the fitness is definitely down on Nuno team......maybe it's conditioning as apposed to training.....

But some of the players, thinking Rayan and maybe semedo struggled for 90mins fitness under Nuno as well.....

Jonny isn't going to be as fit as he was under Nuno cause of the injuries....mouts is older......maybe it's running round like headless chickens under Lage as apposed to the training schedule.....

Neves look fitter to me under Lage......so maybe it's not just the training and there are other factors....tactics, injury catching up....maybe ..

Our players looked the fittest when we was in the Europa League.. So playing more probably does help

 

[lets all have a disco]

Our players looked the fittest when we was in the Europa League.. So playing more probably does help

We used game management then though to get the small squad through the extra games..... remember at the time when everyone on here was moaning about first halfs etc ...we couldn't go full pelt every game ......that's why Nuno was conservative.....it was to reserve energy levels.

It was either full pelt last 15 mins under Nuno or full pelt from the off, get in front and sit back......that's how he managed the small squad..

Lage had em running round like headless chickens......

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

I'm no technician but we do/can keep the ball quite well and if this being so could we not push the CBs higher up and get our team further up the pitch? This would put more players in potential goal scoring/making positions? I suppose that means we would be vulnerable to break aways but with Collins, Semedo and RAN with their pace and Kilman with his game awareness that would surely minimise the risk. We need to play quicker and find space better and so the point about Moutinho slowing everything down is valid. There is no doubt we need to be fitter, faster and more dynamic but after 2 seasons of stagnation that is a massive job for a new manager.

 

[the 15th Wanderer]

I think under Nuno we tended to sit deep and conserve energy hence the strong finishes. Lage has been the opposite trying to press higher from the start and running out of steam. Not a hard and fast rule obviously may well be the case that the fitness regime has also altered. I can't recall seeing the organised warm up this season for example.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Maybe it’s not fitness that’s the problem.

Could it be moral? Let’s face it, when you’re frequently losing and practically never score a goal and start the season in the bottom 3 , that’s got to sap any enthusiasm.
They must have little or no belief in themselves at this point……they’re only human. Plus, it’s very possible that there’s some resentment within the squad which only compounds the problem.
The lads come out every game, full of ra-ra and energy but then they know or feel that once again nothings working and subconsciously they lose heart and fade a bit.

However, a little ray of sunshine…….our young players are getting some playing time and they will be hung-ho to show their stuff. They might be a catalyst for the other players.

As much as I love Nuno…….I don’t think he has what it’s going to take to get us moving. We need a big strong, no nonsense personality who can instil a team spirit again.

 

[Abbobrom]

When they built the Pyramids, they started with a wide base. This is the same with fitness training. You have to first start with a solid endurance base, this gives you the platform to build your fitness on. I call it "Training to train,"

In close season the players supposedly are given training plans so that they come back with a degree of fitness. that should be the start of the training base. The better the training base the longer players can maintain their sharpness during matches.

This season is unusual in that we are soon about to have a break. Now would be a great time to go back and top up the fitness base. Watching the training videos, a lot of the work seems half hearted with little or no intensity. You should train harder than you play, which gives you that comfortable speed which great players have.

 

[Norway Wolves]

Many of us have noticed that we don't seem fit enough and it's very unlikely that so many of us are wrong.

Moutinho being in the fulcrum of the midfield is I believe a major factor in this, he slows the game down because he has to, and this in turn reduces any intensity we have. In addition I feel that we are constantly 2nd to 2nd balls in midfield.

We significantly tired the last 20 mins versus Forest and only just got over the line.

This hopefully will change when a new manager comes in, I think it wil be the first thing he notices.

 

[Contrarian]

That's true, half press counter attacking style meant more left in the tank. We pressed quite well on Saturday but you could tell in the last 15-20 minutes the legs were tiring as we let them back into it, that's where squad depth comes into play.

On Saturday, we left the substitutions really late, too. Though we'd got over that when Bruno left. It was in that time when Forest had brought a couple of subs on and we hadn't, that they won their penalty. With 5 subs allowed, I'm still baffled as to why our managers aren't using it effectively. All the others we play seem to be. They need to sort this out, as against a better team than Forest, 2 or 3 fresh players against our tiring ones, even just for 5 minutes, may be enough for opponents to snatch something. If I was Palace or Leicester manager, I'd have noticed that and be already planning to get a couple of fast attackers on at around 60-65 mins, as they could well get 10 minutes to freely run rings round Moutinho and the others in our side who are usually on their knees at that point.

 

[Hawkguy]

I can't answer for athletes of this caliber. But I was training for Pro Wrestling before the pandemic. Right before we shut down for 2 1/2 years, I could run the ropes and blow-up drills for about 5 minutes before I had to tap out for a break. I've been training again since September, and I can do about 2 minutes before I need to tap out for a break and some water. That's after 6 weeks of training again.. so it's not quick.

 

[Ned]

On Saturday, we left the substitutions really late, too. Though we'd got over that when Bruno left. It was in that time when Forest had brought a couple of subs on and we hadn't, that they won their penalty. With 5 subs allowed, I'm still baffled as to why our managers aren't using it effectively. All the others we play seem to be. They need to sort this out, as against a better team than Forest, 2 or 3 fresh players against our tiring ones, even just for 5 minutes, may be enough for opponents to snatch something. If I was Palace or Leicester manager, I'd have noticed that and be already planning to get a couple of fast attackers on at around 60-65 mins, as they could well get 10 minutes to freely run rings round Moutinho and the others in our side who are usually on their knees at that point.

Agree with this. We need to be able to make proactive changes to stop the momentum shifting before it has even started to, we had enough options on the bench on Saturday to keep on top of things after we scored. It's a squad game now more than ever so there isn't any real excuse (when the bench has options) for us to lose goals due to tired legs in key areas.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I keep hearing this complaint but is it really any wonder?
It's injuries that have been the cause of our lack of general fitness.
Whether that's Raul, Hwang, Neto, Guedes, Traore, Semedo or whoever...half the squad has been carrying injuries.
Then you have the likes of moutinho who looks to be puffing after 55-60 minutes, and Diego Costa. I don't know what people are really expecting?

 

[Ned]

Might as well bump this thread up again. Another game where we struggled to match the opponents’ work rate and physicality.

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

Might as well bump this thread up again. Another game where we struggled to match the opponents’ work rate and physicality.

Think it would be very wise actually, to see everyone who could go to Qatar not to be called up and give them ample time to get as sharp as possible.

They need to be in this state!

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Might as well bump this thread up again. Another game where we struggled to match the opponents’ work rate and physicality.

Once we took off Nunes, Traore and Traore for three midgets.

It's physicality and strength more than fitness.

Imagine playing Palace away with Bueno, Hodge, Podence, Guedes, Moutinho. All little farts who are not physically strong and you can question the heart with one or two.

Don't get me wrong, they're good players in their own right but having half your outfield team as dwarfs is not acceptable in any fixture but especially this one.

We were competitive against them because we matched them up until the subs.

 

[JOSWolf]

Fitness levels look an absolute shambles compared to other clubs. Adama apparently playing with a knock tonight, players looking tired, B Traore apparently fatigued tonight. Players picking up knock after knock such as Toti, Hwang and Adama. What is going on? I thought we were a Premier League Club and not National Conference South!

 

[Leigh72]

We do look very unfit

 

[JOSWolf]

We do look very unfit

See Davis comments about B. Traore tonight. Fatigued after 50 mins. An absolute joke.

 

[RMNottm]

Fitness levels look an absolute shambles compared to other clubs. Adama apparently playing with a knock tonight, players looking tired, B Traore apparently fatigued tonight. Players picking up knock after knock such as Toti, Hwang and Adama. What is going on? I thought we were a Premier League Club and not National Conference South!

Certain characters feel knocks when things do not go their way. Also fatigue accumulates. Man management and good care needed.

 

[JOSWolf]

Certain characters feel knocks when things do not go their way. Also fatigue accumulates. Man management and good care needed.

Fitness levels of this squad look very poor in my opinion.

 

[Fenrir_]

Looking more and more evident that our fitness levels are nowhere near where they need to be. Badly need to get to the mid season break so we can get this lot sorted out

 

[L78]

Said exactly the same to my mates after Saturday's game - whoever comes in should use the world cup break as an opportunity for a mini-preseason to improve the fitness of those not involved at the tournament.

Should only be neves going to world Cup the rest don't look good enough

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

Without looking I’d be amazed if we aren’t bottom (and by some distance) for sprints per games, yards covered, pressures ect. All the metrics which entitle you to play your game.

Not to scapegoat as I think he did well at times today but Semedo’s reaction for the second says it all about this team’s problems.

I’d be having them all run around the west park first thing tomorrow, Leicester have two less days recovery before Sunday so that’s no excuse not to.

 

[JOSWolf]

Without looking I’d be amazed if we aren’t bottom (and by some distance) for sprints per games, yards covered, pressures ect. All the metrics which entitle you to play your game.

Not to scapegoat as I think he did well at times today but Semedo’s reaction for the second says it all about this team’s problems.

I’d be having them all run around the west park first thing tomorrow, Leicester have two less days recovery before Sunday so that’s no excuse not to.

Yet what's the betting Leicester will look fitter and play with more intensity than us on Sunday?