Premier League, Newcastle and free speech

[Wolf316]

Does this country want to be anymore woke than it already is. Pathetic from Newcastle

Used to be a country of the brave and strong, now it's a nation of can't say this and this offends me bla bla. Grow up ffs.

Over moderation of our lives (The club not this forum lol)

Oh for the glory days when you could be as racist, sexist and homophobic as you liked.

 

[Mutchy]

Football related...

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Football related...

Football should be doing more to stop this, uniting people not dividing them?

 

[Leemack]

Oh for the glory days when you could be as racist, sexist and homophobic as you liked.

Ok chill ya bones mush !

 

[WickedWolfie]

I didn't know he was there until a saw a post on here earlier as i don't follow him on social media so i take it he wasn't demonstrating against something or recruiting for an organization that could of stopped entry. As a side note wonder how he got a ticket, is he a member of LFC if so they don't seem to have a problem with it but i doubt it somehow and he got it of a mate but with his high profile that was taking a risk wasn't it.

The posts on the Mix said that he was in the Wolves section. That's what caused most comment.

 

[Perton Wolf]

Her views are horrid. No sympathy for her, some of the things she's posted on socials is disgusting.

I won't go into detail about them but a football club is like any other business and as long as it's not discriminating based on a protected characteristic, it is entitled to choose who it serves and doesn't.

 

[SuperGran]

The posts on the Mix said that he was in the Wolves section. That's what caused most comment.

He was in with the away fans steve bull lower

 

[Jefe]

Find the comments saying ‘the police found she did nothing wrong so that should be it’ quite a strange reaction. If you act like a prat you’ll be barred from your local, if you shout racist comments at the cinema you’ll be chucked out. That’s how society works. Her comments weren’t “gender critical” they were horrific and dangerous, whatever your view on the subject might be. I’d hope we would also ban fans for happily spouting such xenophobic views into the public realm. Wolves is supposedly an open club for all, people like that can take their custom elsewhere.

You can be barred from your local pub or cinema, but there are other pubs to enjoy a drink and other cinemas to go and watch Dune 2. There is no other Molineux, or St James' Park to support your beloved football club. That's why clubs need to consider decisions like this a lot more carefully than Newcastle's owners have. In a time where Football wasn't such an unassailable financial monolith, and a legacy fan couldn't be swapped out for a tourist with such ease, I have my doubts a Premier League club would dare pull a stunt like this.

...I hope Ms Smith takes Newcastle and the Premier League to the cleaners.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Her views are horrid. No sympathy for her, some of the things she's posted on socials is disgusting.

I won't go into detail about them but a football club is like any other business and as long as it's not discriminating based on a protected characteristic, it is entitled to choose who it serves and doesn't.

I have neither seen her views nor wish to, particularly if they are as you describe. However l'm not sure that clubs should be into social engineering, particularly in an area of active controversy where Courts have recently made a series of rulings against overreach, though. Even more so when they/the PL may well have breached data protection laws (and depending on what investigations they did may just find themselves at issue with the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 too) to do so. Finally if she had a ST and they voided it in season they are likely guilty of breach of contract.

 

[WickedWolfie]

He was in with the away fans steve bull lowerView attachment 42347

That is not as bad as l feared, TY.

 

[Wolf316]

He was in with the away fans steve bull lowerView attachment 42347

Imagine going to a football match and that **** is stood next to you.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Imagine going to a football match and that **** is stood next to you.

Probably surrounded by his acolytes....

 

[Sussex Wolf]

If you act like like a prat "in your local" or shout racist comments "at the cinema" you could be banned from them, but that doesn't normally extend to a ban from your local football club as well. I haven't seen the full story here, but unless she made those comments on a football forum, or had some official representative role in the club, I can't see what it has to do with Newcastle United, or the Premier League, irrespective of what she said and what the legal action taken might be.

I think that’s the crux of it for me. Had she shouted abuse or threatened people at SJP or posted abuse on an official Newcastle forum, then NUFC would be within their rights to ban her like any other private company refusing service. But to ban a fan for expressing legal, even if unpleasant, views on social media unlinked to the club is overreach. Unfortunately it appears that other fans reported her and effectively sought to cancel her, because they don’t agree with her views.

 

[Perton Wolf]

I think that’s the crux of it for me. Had she shouted abuse or threatened people at SJP or posted abuse on an official Newcastle forum, then NUFC would be within their rights to ban her like any other private company refusing service. But to ban a fan for expressing legal, even if unpleasant, views on social media unlinked to the club is overreach. Unfortunately it appears that other fans reported her and effectively sought to cancel her, because they don’t agree with her views.

Words have consequences, people seem to think that freedom of speech is unlimited and without bounds but it's really not.

Especially when posting on socials, anyone can see and share it! As has happened here by the sounds of it.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Imagine going to a football match and that **** is stood next to you.

I get that he’s not liked.

However if his stadium ban is up and prison sentence is over. That’s not our business.

I don’t like him but you can’t cancel someone if they have served their time. That’s what is wrong with today’s culture…

People on the left and people on the right will always cause division.

To be honest who cares who goes to a game as long as they are watching and adhering to the rules within the stadium??

Bit of an overreaction on here???

 

[The Wolf In The North]

Can of worms the size of a truck.

For context - for those who believe context applies - the individual named in this case wasn't just expressing an opinion in a random tweet, she was strongly and consistently vociferous on social media with an anti-transgender bent. She did this on the same platform where she was an open and enthusiastic Newcastle United supporter. Any associations, regardless of intention or lack of it, were created by her. No one forced her to use social media as a platform to spread her poison, and for all the arguments about liberty and privacy, no one forced her to post any of her 'personal information' on social media either, it was her choice. People are daft if they believe Twitter is some kind of safe space with no consequence.

The reason why she wasn't prosecuted is because the current laws aren't as stringent for anti-transgender rhetoric as they are for race, religion and more recently sexuality.

However, all that said, it's hypocritical to the extreme for Newcastle of all the bloody clubs to take any kind of moral stance considering their ownership, and all concerns about the overreaching of private enterprise is entirely justified. I have no sympathy whatsoever for this woman, I despise her views, but I don't want to live in a society where companies and organisations decide what's acceptable for the masses; at some point I'm going to think or say something that someone with more authority than me disagrees with, and if that difference of view becomes a weapon to use against me, that's terrifying. A lot of people might argue that we're already there.

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

Words have consequences, people seem to think that freedom of speech is unlimited and without bounds but it's really not.

Especially when posting on socials, anyone can see and share it! As has happened here by the sounds of it.

No, freedom of speech is not unlimited. It is subject to the law, but it should not be subject merely to moral outrage, or counter-opinion, no matter how well intentioned or widely held those morals, or opinions, may be.

 

[Jefe]

Can of worms the size of a truck. For context - for those who believe context applies - the individual named in this case wasn't just expressing an opinion in a random tweet, she was strongly and consistently vociferous on social media with an anti-transgender bent that went so far as her stating that the Nazis had the correct idea in exterminating transgender people. She did this on the same platform where she was an open and enthusiastic Newcastle United supporter. Any associations, regardless of intention or lack of it, were created by her. No one forced her to use social media as a platform to spread her poison, and for all the arguments about liberty and privacy, no one forced her to post any of her 'personal information' on social media either, it was her choice. People are daft if they believe Twitter is some kind of safe space with no consequence.

The reason why she wasn't prosecuted is because the current laws aren't as stringent for anti-transgender rhetoric as they are for race, religion and more recently sexuality; exchange the term transgender in the above Nazi statement for black or Jewish, for example, and it's not nearly so easy to accept as a form of freedom of speech. Would you want such a person as part of the Wolves pack?

However, all that said, it's hypocritical to the extreme for Newcastle of all the bloody clubs to take any kind of moral stance considering their ownership, and all concerns about the overreaching of private enterprise is entirely justified. I have no sympathy whatsoever for this woman, I despise her views, but I don't want to live in a society where companies and organisations decide what's acceptable for the masses; at some point I'm going to think or say something that someone with more authority than me disagrees with, and if that difference of view becomes a weapon to use against me, that's terrifying. A lot of people might argue that we're already there.

I agree with much of your post, but for the sake of accurate portrayal of a potential court case, libel etc, the bold should be corrected. The relevant tweet that was investigated was her saying that trans ideology stemmed from a Nazi doctor called Josef Mengele (who would perform sex change operations on concentration camp inmates). I personally believe this is a strange comment on her part and ultimately irrelevant to the trans community, even if she was called a Nazi which prompted that response, but it would be a misrepresentation to say she advocates for trans people to be exterminated or that the Nazis were correct in any of their experiments.

 

[The Wolf In The North]

I agree with much of your post, but for the sake of accurate portrayal of a potential court case, libel etc, the bold should be corrected. The relevant tweet that was investigated was her saying that trans ideology stemmed from a Nazi doctor called Josef Mengele (who would perform sex change operations on concentration camp inmates). I personally believe this is a strange comment on her part and ultimately irrelevant to the trans community, even if she was called a Nazi which prompted that response, but it would be a misrepresentation to say she advocates for trans people to be exterminated or that the Nazis were correct in any of their experiments.

That is fair if correct; thank you. I've edited out, for the sake of argument (and Mutchy's gin consumption).

 

[Mutchy]

I give up...