7 consecutive seasons in PL

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Not sure if this is criticism of my post or a general comment on it, but I didn't suggest Europe and I accept your other points, but if mid-table mediocrity is the extent of our ambitions, then so be it, but I'm not excited by that. If we are not progressing, we are regressing as you can bet that our competitors are not standing still.
As I said in my post, progression can take many forms and I'll be happy if I see things moving forwards. I don't expect Champions' League football (just yet ) , but I also don't want the kind of football and results that we seen since Coventry. There is somewhere in between.

No, I wasn't criticising your post and apologise for any offence. I was just saying it as I see it. Would love us to progress but staying up given our constraints is a real achievement.

 

[Supadavewolf]

Incredible to people like me who have 50 plus years in as Wolves follower that this is actually the longest sustained period I have enjoyed in the top tier of English football !!!!

Prior to this current era it was 1977/78 until 1981/82

IIRC it's become our longest continuous period in the top division since 67 to 76 (?) when I was in my 20s

Given I won't see 76 again that to me is a truly remarkable achievement.

Well done to all who have helped achieve this

 

[Jefe]

I think it deserves pointing out that Hobbs and GON deserve credit, not Shi. He lost a manager on the eve of the season and then failed to back the new coach in January, which has failed to protect us from the injury crisis that has derailed our season. Not to mention his dangerous financial management over the last few years which has seen us waste huge sums on players that never wanted to come and result in us being closer than ever before to breaking FFP/PSR.

Our Chairman is undoubtedly incompetent, but thankfully, Hobbs' shrewd player recruitment and GON's ability to get the most out of the limited squad at his disposal has meant we will likely manage to finish around the same position as last season. However, we all know it could've been more in respect to both the FA Cup and the league.

This is basically where I am at. One of Jeff's primary responsibilities is management of the club finances. It's his job to know how close we are to breaching financial rules, and steer us away from the iceberg well ahead of time with a sensible, proactive financial plan. Not the feast and famine farce we have come to associate with his leadership. Sometimes that means telling a manager "no" if the player's fee represents a great risk to the club.

He has sanctioned incredible sums on the likes of Guedes, Fabio, Sasa (with his catalog of injury problems), Hoever etc, while allowing players to leave beyond peak saleability (or in the case of Adama, for nothing). And he's often lucky. Is it a coincidence that only when Hobbs took control did the more sensible and reasonable purchases of the likes of Dawson, Lemina and Gomes become the rule and not the exception? For all Jeff's talk about learning and growing - the man's been Wolves chairman for nearly 8 years. How embarrassing that a scout turned Sporting Director can offer the club better value for money than Jeff's enviable connection to the world's best player agent.

 

[SA Wolf]

No, I wasn't criticising your post and apologise for any offence. I was just saying it as I see it. Would love us to progress but staying up given our constraints is a real achievement.

No offence taken, mate.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

This is basically where I am at. One of Jeff's primary responsibilities is management of the club finances. It's his job to know how close we are to breaching financial rules, and steer us away from the iceberg well ahead of time with a sensible, proactive financial plan. Not the feast and famine farce we have come to associate with his leadership. Sometimes that means telling a manager "no" if the player's fee represents a great risk to the club.

He has sanctioned incredible sums on the likes of Guedes, Fabio, Sasa (with his catalog of injury problems), Hoever etc, while allowing players to leave beyond peak saleability (or in the case of Adama, for nothing). And he's often lucky. Is it a coincidence that only when Hobbs took control did the more sensible and reasonable purchases of the likes of Dawson, Lemina and Gomes become the rule and not the exception? For all Jeff's talk about learning and growing - the man's been Wolves chairman for nearly 8 years. How embarrassing that a scout turned Sporting Director can offer the club better value for money than Jeff's enviable connection to the world's best player agent.

I think that's a bit harsh. Which clubs have been in the PL over that time without making a bad signing or two? People were very excited about Guedes, Sasa was certainly a bit of a desperate gamble, but not a ridiculously expensive one, and Fabio - well yes. Adama's loan was a bit crazy, maybe we could have sold him at his peak (sure that would have gone down well), but who else do you have in mind? Certainly listening to Sellars was a mistake, Hobbs seems a much better judge and hopefully we keep him and let him make the football decisions with O'Neil.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Yes, it's amazing how for some posters on here everything that goes slightly wrong is entirely down to Jeff but anything that goes right is despite him.

Very true.

 

[VancouverWolf]

I think people forget that it took Man City 9 seasons to achieve success after their promotion

That was with many 100s of millions of pounds spent on players and building a new stadium all without the hindrance of FFP

It is so much more difficult for us, not to mention Covid and an inflation spurt
We have done wonderfully well to sustain a decent league position over the last few years

I know everyone wants more including myself but we have to understand where we are as a club with finances and FFP

Do we run the gauntlet of a points deduction and spend anyway?
Do Fosun have the will to push further?
Do we have the infrastructure to match getting higher in the league?

All questions that have different answers depending on your outlook
Personally i think we need a new stadium to push on,obviously some major investment in that and the team

Will Fosun be the ones to do that? I have my doubts,but equally i cant see anyone else coming in and spending possibly billions on doing those things either

So for now im happy to keep staying in the Prem and having a decent cup run now and then,and keep waiting for the messiah that every other club is waiting for lol

Excellent post.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

This is basically where I am at. One of Jeff's primary responsibilities is management of the club finances. It's his job to know how close we are to breaching financial rules, and steer us away from the iceberg well ahead of time with a sensible, proactive financial plan. Not the feast and famine farce we have come to associate with his leadership. Sometimes that means telling a manager "no" if the player's fee represents a great risk to the club.

He has sanctioned incredible sums on the likes of Guedes, Fabio, Sasa (with his catalog of injury problems), Hoever etc, while allowing players to leave beyond peak saleability (or in the case of Adama, for nothing). And he's often lucky. Is it a coincidence that only when Hobbs took control did the more sensible and reasonable purchases of the likes of Dawson, Lemina and Gomes become the rule and not the exception? For all Jeff's talk about learning and growing - the man's been Wolves chairman for nearly 8 years. How embarrassing that a scout turned Sporting Director can offer the club better value for money than Jeff's enviable connection to the world's best player agent.

Alwats make me chuckle when Jeff’s incompetence is pointed out but any “good” is always levelled at being lucky.

He’s done plenty wrong, so have Fosun, so did Nuno, so did JL, so does GON. You could say that about the structure at pretty much every club. However the overriding fact of which there is absolutely no dispute is that Fosun and Jeff have overseen the most successful run in the top flight in just under half a century. If we’d all been told on the day Fosun breezed in we’d have seen some of the players we’d had, played in an FA cup Semi final (minutes away from a final), played in Europe then we’d all have needed a good wipe down!

Is it perfect? No. Have mistakes been made? Yes. However that’s football. If it was a measurable science so many very sucessful and savvy people wouldn’t have failed at it

 

[Jefe]

I think that's a bit harsh. Which clubs have been in the PL over that time without making a bad signing or two? People were very excited about Guedes, Sasa was certainly a bit of a desperate gamble, but not a ridiculously expensive one, and Fabio - well yes. Adama's loan was a bit crazy, maybe we could have sold him at his peak (sure that would have gone down well), but who else do you have in mind? Certainly listening to Sellars was a mistake, Hobbs seems a much better judge and hopefully we keep him and let him make the football decisions with O'Neil.

Alwats make me chuckle when Jeff’s incompetence is pointed out but any “good” is always levelled at being lucky. He’s done plenty wrong, so have Fosun, so did Nuno, so did JL, so does GON. You could say that about the structure at pretty much every club. However the overriding fact of which there is absolutely no dispute is that Fosun and Jeff have overseen the most successful run in the top flight in just under half a century. If we’d all been told on the day Fosun breezed in we’d have seen some of the players we’d had, played in an FA cup Semi final (minutes away from a final), played in Europe then we’d all have needed a good wipe down! Is it perfect? No. Have mistakes been made? Yes. However that’s football. If it was a measurable science so many very sucessful and savvy people wouldn’t have failed at it

Sorry for a long-form response, but I think it goes beyond a bad signing or two and is worth examining.

Let's say there are three distinct eras at Wolves under Fosun: the Mendes golden age, where "uncle Jorge" pulled rabbit after rabbit out of the hat for us. Then, the no-man's land of the January 2020 - January 2022 period, in which that relationship cooled and the flak aimed at Jeff started to mount, where he saw fit to make Scott bloody Sellars his right-hand man. Then finally, the present-day Hobbs era, underpinned by shrewder recruitment as a result of the self-imposed financial straitjacket of the previous era. The transfer business in the middle three-year period was really poor on balance, and it's largely why we are in such a pickle now.

There are positives, but they are relatively few. RAN and Toti are undeniably excellent signings given the massive appreciation of their valuations. £42m for Gibbs-White was a very good sale as well, albeit he really has become a key player for Forest and could've gotten international recognition under a less blinkered and favouritist England coach. The fees for Costa, Cavaleiro and Vinagre likewise saw decent profits. Podence was decent for us in spells (but will leave for either nothing or a snip).

Now, the negatives. It's not a nice thing to say about a youngster, but Fabio Silva at £35m will go down as the worst signing in the club's history, and it's not close. I can see a £20m loss, easily. Jeff's boy. I am loathe to mention Semedo after his strong performances under Gary, but on balance over four seasons, he simply hasn't justified the fee. Clubs of Wolves' standing simply do not commit £30m on a full back; it was a bonkers signing in retrospect. We would have been better off keeping Doherty (who himself was shipped for a poor fee IMO) and provided him with a cheaper competitor while distributing the remainder to more pressing positions.

For reasons beyond me, Jeff saw fit to sanction £10m on Ki-Jana Hoever before add-ons - who hitherto had a grant total of 4 appearances for Liverpool (and is now enjoying a Chump relegation battle with Stoke). Probably got span a yarn by Klopp. He also paid Barca €6m for the grand sum of 1400 minutes and three goal contributions from Trincao, while in turn allowing them to waste six months of Adama's dwindling contract because Jeff failed to negotiate a loan fee, let alone an obligation to buy. Amateur hour.

The £41m fee for Jota (paid in £10 weekly increments), ostensibly was good on paper but ages increasingly poorly given some of the fees going around for less talented players. When he's fit, he is a difference maker at the top end of the table. Finally, the way he treated club stalwart Romain Saiss was nothing less than shambolic (who would rub it in his face with a star turn at the 2022 World Cup).

More recently, we could also point to Jeff lucking out big time that the madmen of al-Ittihad came in with gaga money for Neves at the last minute. In a less randomly bat**** crazy moment in Football, he'd have been staring down the ignominy of the avatar of the Fosun era walking on a Bosman, or a desperately accepted low-ball fee.

My point moreover is that, the drastic remedial action we had to take wasn't just 'one of those things' or bad luck. It was bad decisions that brought us to that point.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Sorry for a long-form response, but I think it goes beyond a bad signing or two and is worth examining.

Let's say there are three distinct eras at Wolves under Fosun: the Mendes golden age, where "uncle Jorge" pulled rabbit after rabbit out of the hat for us. Then, the no-man's land of the January 2020 - January 2022 period, in which that relationship cooled and the flak aimed at Jeff started to mount, where he saw fit to make Scott bloody Sellars his right-hand man. Then finally, the present-day Hobbs era, underpinned by shrewder recruitment as a result of the self-imposed financial straitjacket of the previous era. The transfer business in the middle three-year period was really poor on balance, and it's largely why we are in such a pickle now.

There are positives, but they are relatively few. RAN and Toti are undeniably excellent signings given the massive appreciation of their valuations. £42m for Gibbs-White was a very good sale as well, albeit he really has become a key player for Forest and could've gotten international recognition under a less blinkered and favouritist England coach. The fees for Costa, Cavaleiro and Vinagre likewise saw decent profits. Podence was decent for us in spells (but will leave for either nothing or a snip).

Now, the negatives. It's not a nice thing to say about a youngster, but Fabio Silva at £35m will go down as the worst signing in the club's history, and it's not close. I can see a £20m loss, easily. Jeff's boy. I am loathe to mention Semedo after his strong performances under Gary, but on balance over four seasons, he simply hasn't justified the fee. Clubs of Wolves' standing simply do not commit £30m on a full back; it was a bonkers signing in retrospect. We would have been better off keeping Doherty (who himself was shipped for a poor fee IMO) and provided him with a cheaper competitor while distributing the remainder to more pressing positions.

For reasons beyond me, Jeff saw fit to sanction £10m on Ki-Jana Hoever before add-ons - who hitherto had a grant total of 4 appearances for Liverpool (and is now enjoying a Chump relegation battle with Stoke). Probably got span a yarn by Klopp. He also paid Barca €6m for the grand sum of 1400 minutes and three goal contributions from Trincao, while in turn allowing them to waste six months of Adama's dwindling contract because Jeff failed to negotiate a loan fee, let alone an obligation to buy. Amateur hour.

The £41m fee for Jota (paid in £10 weekly increments), ostensibly was good on paper but ages increasingly poorly given some of the fees going around for less talented players. When he's fit, he is a difference maker at the top end of the table. Finally, the way he treated club stalwart Romain Saiss was nothing less than shambolic (who would rub it in his face with a star turn at the 2022 World Cup).

More recently, we could also point to Jeff lucking out big time that the madmen of al-Ittihad came in with gaga money for Neves at the last minute. In a less randomly bat**** crazy moment in Football, he'd have been staring down the ignominy of the avatar of the Fosun era walking on a Bosman, or a desperately accepted low-ball fee.

My point moreover is that, the drastic remedial action we had to take wasn't just 'one of those things' or bad luck. It was bad decisions that brought us to that point.

Well it's a pretty pointless argument, I think we all agree mistakes have been made, as @SteveBullsKnee says, everyone makes mistakes. However just to try to keep the books straight as it were!

Sellars - yes, turned out to be something of a charlatan, poor choice, that's a danger for any club with a CEO who might be dazzled by a slick performer IMO.

Some good sales on players who were decent but not good enough yes, especially conning Thelwell into buying Vinagre again!

Podence was never going to be sold for his book price, so we were stuck loaning him out. Not sure what else we could have done?

Fabio - yes, as I keep saying a very poor and very expensive gamble.

Semedo - took about half a season to settle, since then for me he's been pretty good, this season he's been outstanding. Well over 100 games for us now and has been a perfectly reasonable signing.

Doc - if you think he was undervalued at £15m with 12 months on his contract I'm amazed - he was like Coady, a player with some specialised skills made to look far better than he actually is by Nuno.

Hoever was a young gamble at a more sensible level than Fabio. Not come off, wasn't ridiculous.

The stuff about the structure of the Jota fee is a silly joke on here, it doesn't even matter than they delayed the initial payment to our accounts, he's still netted us £50m with add ons. Exactly what the Fosun model was.

My opinion on the 2022 Summer was that Lage wanted Saiss and Coady out of the way. That's all wrapped up in Lage being a poor man manager and therefore a poor appointment, which is wrapped up with Sellars too.

The sale of Neves well who knows, it's helped the books this year apparently, as has Pep deciding Nunes was worth £55m. You can't just write off the good bits as lucky though.

So yes, it's a mixed picture, but basically - excellent under Nuno, then it all went to ****, now it looks good again. Fingers crossed, not exactly the Bhattis though!

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

Alwats make me chuckle when Jeff’s incompetence is pointed out but any “good” is always levelled at being lucky.

He’s done plenty wrong, so have Fosun, so did Nuno, so did JL, so does GON. You could say that about the structure at pretty much every club. However the overriding fact of which there is absolutely no dispute is that Fosun and Jeff have overseen the most successful run in the top flight in just under half a century. If we’d all been told on the day Fosun breezed in we’d have seen some of the players we’d had, played in an FA cup Semi final (minutes away from a final), played in Europe then we’d all have needed a good wipe down!

Is it perfect? No. Have mistakes been made? Yes. However that’s football. If it was a measurable science so many very sucessful and savvy people wouldn’t have failed at it

Great post. Couldn't agree more. I still have to pinch myself that I've seen English, Spanish, Portuguese and even Brazilian internationals playing for my club in the last 7 seasons instead of the diet of Welsh, Scottish and Irish internationals we suffered in the 90's and 2000's

For most of my life supporting Wolves I've only dreamed of the run we are currently having. I had a taste in 2010-12 but I knew it was only a matter of time before we would be back in the Championship and it was only ever going to be a fight for 17th. I've had to suffer disappointment and false dawn over and over again mixed in with mid-table Championship mediocrity all the while watching other clubs catch us and then pass us by.

So I refuse to be anything other than grateful to FOSUN and Jeff for what they have done for my club. That doesn't mean I won't criticise them when I think they have made a stupid mistake but it means I will try to be considered in my opinion and try and thinks things through beforehand. They are not the worst owners in the League (Moshiri ffs!) they aren't trying to asset strip or scrape survival on the cheap to fill their coffers or any other ridiculous suggestion like that. They are trying to make us a sustainable Premier League club for the long term. Did they raise expectations of Champions League and fighting for titles in the beginning? Of course they did. But the world is a very different place post the pandemic and I'm not going to use something Jeff Shi said back in 2018 as a stick to beat him about the head with.

 

[Flump]

Sorry for a long-form response, but I think it goes beyond a bad signing or two and is worth examining.

Let's say there are three distinct eras at Wolves under Fosun: the Mendes golden age, where "uncle Jorge" pulled rabbit after rabbit out of the hat for us. Then, the no-man's land of the January 2020 - January 2022 period, in which that relationship cooled and the flak aimed at Jeff started to mount, where he saw fit to make Scott bloody Sellars his right-hand man. Then finally, the present-day Hobbs era, underpinned by shrewder recruitment as a result of the self-imposed financial straitjacket of the previous era. The transfer business in the middle three-year period was really poor on balance, and it's largely why we are in such a pickle now.

There are positives, but they are relatively few. RAN and Toti are undeniably excellent signings given the massive appreciation of their valuations. £42m for Gibbs-White was a very good sale as well, albeit he really has become a key player for Forest and could've gotten international recognition under a less blinkered and favouritist England coach. The fees for Costa, Cavaleiro and Vinagre likewise saw decent profits. Podence was decent for us in spells (but will leave for either nothing or a snip).

Now, the negatives. It's not a nice thing to say about a youngster, but Fabio Silva at £35m will go down as the worst signing in the club's history, and it's not close. I can see a £20m loss, easily. Jeff's boy. I am loathe to mention Semedo after his strong performances under Gary, but on balance over four seasons, he simply hasn't justified the fee. Clubs of Wolves' standing simply do not commit £30m on a full back; it was a bonkers signing in retrospect. We would have been better off keeping Doherty (who himself was shipped for a poor fee IMO) and provided him with a cheaper competitor while distributing the remainder to more pressing positions.

For reasons beyond me, Jeff saw fit to sanction £10m on Ki-Jana Hoever before add-ons - who hitherto had a grant total of 4 appearances for Liverpool (and is now enjoying a Chump relegation battle with Stoke). Probably got span a yarn by Klopp. He also paid Barca €6m for the grand sum of 1400 minutes and three goal contributions from Trincao, while in turn allowing them to waste six months of Adama's dwindling contract because Jeff failed to negotiate a loan fee, let alone an obligation to buy. Amateur hour.

The £41m fee for Jota (paid in £10 weekly increments), ostensibly was good on paper but ages increasingly poorly given some of the fees going around for less talented players. When he's fit, he is a difference maker at the top end of the table. Finally, the way he treated club stalwart Romain Saiss was nothing less than shambolic (who would rub it in his face with a star turn at the 2022 World Cup).

More recently, we could also point to Jeff lucking out big time that the madmen of al-Ittihad came in with gaga money for Neves at the last minute. In a less randomly bat**** crazy moment in Football, he'd have been staring down the ignominy of the avatar of the Fosun era walking on a Bosman, or a desperately accepted low-ball fee.

My point moreover is that, the drastic remedial action we had to take wasn't just 'one of those things' or bad luck. It was bad decisions that brought us to that point.

You seem to be under the impression that Jeff has been our Chief Scout!

 

[VancouverWolf]

Great post. Couldn't agree more. I still have to pinch myself that I've seen English, Spanish, Portuguese and even Brazilian internationals playing for my club in the last 7 seasons instead of the diet of Welsh, Scottish and Irish internationals we suffered in the 90's and 2000's

For most of my life supporting Wolves I've only dreamed of the run we are currently having. I had a taste in 2010-12 but I knew it was only a matter of time before we would be back in the Championship and it was only ever going to be a fight for 17th. I've had to suffer disappointment and false dawn over and over again mixed in with mid-table Championship mediocrity all the while watching other clubs catch us and then pass us by.

So I refuse to be anything other than grateful to FOSUN and Jeff for what they have done for my club. That doesn't mean I won't criticise them when I think they have made a stupid mistake but it means I will try to be considered in my opinion and try and thinks things through beforehand. They are not the worst owners in the League (Moshiri ffs!) they aren't trying to asset strip or scrape survival on the cheap to fill their coffers or any other ridiculous suggestion like that. They are trying to make us a sustainable Premier League club for the long term. Did they raise expectations of Champions League and fighting for titles in the beginning? Of course they did. But the world is a very different place post the pandemic and I'm not going to use something Jeff Shi said back in 2018 as a stick to beat him about the head with.

You mean just because the Wolves glass with Jeff in charge is 9/10 full, your’e not going to constantly complain ?

 

[Jefe]

Well it's a pretty pointless argument, I think we all agree mistakes have been made, as @SteveBullsKnee says, everyone makes mistakes. However just to try to keep the books straight as it were!

Sellars - yes, turned out to be something of a charlatan, poor choice, that's a danger for any club with a CEO who might be dazzled by a slick performer IMO. Some good sales on players who were decent but not good enough yes, especially conning Thelwell into buying Vinagre again!

Podence was never going to be sold for his book price, so we were stuck loaning him out. Not sure what else we could have done? Fabio - yes, as I keep saying a very poor and very expensive gamble. Semedo - took about half a season to settle, since then for me he's been pretty good, this season he's been outstanding. Well over 100 games for us now and has been a perfectly reasonable signing.

Doc - if you think he was undervalued at £15m with 12 months on his contract I'm amazed - he was like Coady, a player with some specialised skills made to look far better than he actually is by Nuno. Hoever was a young gamble at a more sensible level than Fabio. Not come off, wasn't ridiculous.

The stuff about the structure of the Jota fee is a silly joke on here, it doesn't even matter than they delayed the initial payment to our accounts, he's still netted us £50m with add ons. Exactly what the Fosun model was.

My opinion on the 2022 Summer was that Lage wanted Saiss and Coady out of the way. That's all wrapped up in Lage being a poor man manager and therefore a poor appointment, which is wrapped up with Sellars too.

The sale of Neves well who knows, it's helped the books this year apparently, as has Pep deciding Nunes was worth £55m. You can't just write off the good bits as lucky though.

So yes, it's a mixed picture, but basically - excellent under Nuno, then it all went to ****, now it looks good again. Fingers crossed, not exactly the Bhattis though!

I certainly wouldn't want to write off all the good bits as luck. Jeff's strength is in selling players. For instance, there is no luck in the sale of Nunes - Jeff leveraged Pep's misguided belief that Nunes was world-class to turn an unlikely profit on him. That's all credit to Jeff. Neves was jammy as Hell however, I won't have it any other way. Jeff did not predict the Saudi crown prince doing a running cannon ball into the swimming pool of world Football like he did. Fair enough, he took advantage, but I bet he couldn't believe his luck.

Doc left because he became aware the club wanted to sell him - had the club sat down with him over a new deal earnestly and with respect, I'm sure there was a good chance he'd have signed. Similarly, Saiss' side of the story is that the board took the **** out of him with their derisory offer, which is why he left.

 

[Jefe]

You seem to be under the impression that Jeff has been our Chief Scout!

He's been kit man, tea lady and emergency no 9, so why not!

 

[Skrilla]

I would like to see the core of this team kept together in the summer, and a couple of strikers added into the mix. I'm genuinely curious to see what this same group can achieve when you throw in a quality #9 that can get involved in all facets of play (like a Gyokeres), which we haven't had since Raul's injury four years ago.

Is that feasible? Who knows. I'd like to think so. I have a feeling we'll get some big money offers in the summer for Gomes, RAN, Cunha, Neto. It'll be interesting to see how strong our resolve is. For years we've seen other clubs used as a model for success operating under "sell-to-buy" conditions - Southampton, Leicester, Brighton. Yet at some point it catches up to you, and you can't replace the level of quality you're losing.

I feel like if we can keep this core together, and add in a quality striker, something special could happen. Not necessarily talking a Leicester situation, but perhaps a Newcastle of last year. The perfect storm. This group under GON shows a lot of fight. Keep our forwards healthy, add more depth up top, and who knows what could happen?

 

[VancouverWolf]

Sorry for a long-form response, but I think it goes beyond a bad signing or two and is worth examining.

Let's say there are three distinct eras at Wolves under Fosun: the Mendes golden age, where "uncle Jorge" pulled rabbit after rabbit out of the hat for us. Then, the no-man's land of the January 2020 - January 2022 period, in which that relationship cooled and the flak aimed at Jeff started to mount, where he saw fit to make Scott bloody Sellars his right-hand man. Then finally, the present-day Hobbs era, underpinned by shrewder recruitment as a result of the self-imposed financial straitjacket of the previous era. The transfer business in the middle three-year period was really poor on balance, and it's largely why we are in such a pickle now.

There are positives, but they are relatively few. RAN and Toti are undeniably excellent signings given the massive appreciation of their valuations. £42m for Gibbs-White was a very good sale as well, albeit he really has become a key player for Forest and could've gotten international recognition under a less blinkered and favouritist England coach. The fees for Costa, Cavaleiro and Vinagre likewise saw decent profits. Podence was decent for us in spells (but will leave for either nothing or a snip).

Now, the negatives. It's not a nice thing to say about a youngster, but Fabio Silva at £35m will go down as the worst signing in the club's history, and it's not close. I can see a £20m loss, easily. Jeff's boy. I am loathe to mention Semedo after his strong performances under Gary, but on balance over four seasons, he simply hasn't justified the fee. Clubs of Wolves' standing simply do not commit £30m on a full back; it was a bonkers signing in retrospect. We would have been better off keeping Doherty (who himself was shipped for a poor fee IMO) and provided him with a cheaper competitor while distributing the remainder to more pressing positions.

For reasons beyond me, Jeff saw fit to sanction £10m on Ki-Jana Hoever before add-ons - who hitherto had a grant total of 4 appearances for Liverpool (and is now enjoying a Chump relegation battle with Stoke). Probably got span a yarn by Klopp. He also paid Barca €6m for the grand sum of 1400 minutes and three goal contributions from Trincao, while in turn allowing them to waste six months of Adama's dwindling contract because Jeff failed to negotiate a loan fee, let alone an obligation to buy. Amateur hour.

The £41m fee for Jota (paid in £10 weekly increments), ostensibly was good on paper but ages increasingly poorly given some of the fees going around for less talented players. When he's fit, he is a difference maker at the top end of the table. Finally, the way he treated club stalwart Romain Saiss was nothing less than shambolic (who would rub it in his face with a star turn at the 2022 World Cup).

More recently, we could also point to Jeff lucking out big time that the madmen of al-Ittihad came in with gaga money for Neves at the last minute. In a less randomly bat**** crazy moment in Football, he'd have been staring down the ignominy of the avatar of the Fosun era walking on a Bosman, or a desperately accepted low-ball fee.

My point moreover is that, the drastic remedial action we had to take wasn't just 'one of those things' or bad luck. It was bad decisions that brought us to that point.

You say that the positives are relatively few. Really?……sorry, can’t agree.

You think our stability in the PL promotion since promotion could have been accomplished with relatively few positives?
I certainly don’t, ( mind you, I judge players by what they do on the pitch rather than how much they cost.).

We’ve had more positives than negatives.

Some transfers didn’t work out……so what? Happens to all clubs and will happen again.

 

[Jamwolf]

You say that the positives are relatively few. Really?……sorry, can’t agree.

You think our stability in the PL promotion since promotion could have been accomplished with relatively few positives?
I certainly don’t, ( mind you, I judge players by what they do on the pitch rather than how much they cost.).

We’ve had more positives than negatives.

Some transfers didn’t work out……so what? Happens to all clubs and will happen again.

Exactly.
7 comfortable years in the Prem is a great achievement. Even the great 70's side went down twice.
A good start and a few months of "dare to dream" are probably the best we can hope for in the next few years, but at least it will keep the Mix alive and well.

 

[Jefe]

You think our stability in the PL promotion since promotion could have been accomplished with relatively few positives? I certainly don’t, ( mind you, I judge players by what they do on the pitch rather than how much they cost.). We’ve had more positives than negatives. Some transfers didn’t work out……so what? Happens to all clubs and will happen again.

But I am not referring to the period since promotion. My post points specifically to the period between January 2020 and January 2022. To be honest, we can include the subsequent Summer and Autumn in that. On balance, this period featured a lot more negatives than positives in terms of leadership at the top and transfer business, and in my opinion is the main contributory factor to our FFP troubles in the last year or so. In this system, bad decisions take time to catch up with you.

 

[wwbug]

We are at best a mid table side. We cannot realistically expect to challenge for a European spot because:

(a) We don't have the resources to build a squad good enough and big enough;

(b) Fosun are not a sovereign state or egotistical billionaire willing to bankroll us to success;

(c) The combination of Sky/PGMOL/Big 6 have created a closed shop to exclude less attractive teams like Wolves.

The best we can hope for is to play some attractive football and upset the bigger teams every now and again.

Do West Ham , Villa and Newcastle understand C ?

 

[Tarcisio Mifsud]

For me staying in the premiership should only be our focus. With the current stadium capacity, I see it difficult for us to participate in Europe as well, when there are restrictions on the number of players our squad can have. Our target should be between the 08th and 12th place, and that is enough. There are a lot of football on tv, showing European Leagues matches and Cup matches for those who like European Football competitions.

 

[rincewind]

The Premier league is set up such that 14 clubs cannot compete in financial terms and the 6 with the money are determined to ensure it stays that way. The owners ability or willingness to fund a club is always hamstrung by FFP or similar. Ask the Saudis at Newcastle.
So for the other 14 not being relegated is always number 1 target and a possibility with 1 poor season. Those 14 clubs can hope to make European football on the back of 1 or 2 of the rich clubs being badly led and either excellent recruitment or some luck. We're one of the 14 and like the other 13 are staying there until relegation or a change to the financial rules.

 

[Timberwolf]

Think height of our ambition is staying up

It might be yours…

 

[Timberwolf]

Incredible to people like me who have 50 plus years in as Wolves follower that this is actually the longest sustained period I have enjoyed in the top tier of English football !!!!

Prior to this current era it was 1977/78 until 1981/82

…and to add, it’s incredible how many have moaned all the way through it.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

It might be yours…

It's the height of Jeff's ambition, which is the main thing.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

It's the height of Jeff's ambition, which is the main thing.

Why would it only be the peak of Jeff’s ambition? Ultimately he’s an employee of Fosun so does as he’s told. I’m sure if they went all “Real Madrid” and gave him £500 million he’d do whatever he could as any success reflects on him. It doesn’t benefit him as an employee where we are, who knows he might want to stay in football and go to an elite club, would being tight with money on purpose help that??

 

[Nige]

Maybe my maths are off. But don't we still need 2 points as things stand to make it official..

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Why would it only be the peak of Jeff’s ambition? Ultimately he’s an employee of Fosun so does as he’s told. I’m sure if they went all “Real Madrid” and gave him £500 million he’d do whatever he could as any success reflects on him. It doesn’t benefit him as an employee where we are, who knows he might want to stay in football and go to an elite club, would being tight with money on purpose help that??

Well Fosun then, very pedantic. I think he has much more influence than you think in terms of strategy/input but yes, he's not the ultimate money man.

Point was out ambitions have to be staying up at first because we can't financially compete with others in this league and until Fosun/Jeff change that then like the other 8/9/10 clubs we have to battle to survive first and foremost.

 

[Timberwolf]

Sorry for a long-form response, but I think it goes beyond a bad signing or two and is worth examining.

Let's say there are three distinct eras at Wolves under Fosun: the Mendes golden age, where "uncle Jorge" pulled rabbit after rabbit out of the hat for us. Then, the no-man's land of the January 2020 - January 2022 period, in which that relationship cooled and the flak aimed at Jeff started to mount, where he saw fit to make Scott bloody Sellars his right-hand man. Then finally, the present-day Hobbs era, underpinned by shrewder recruitment as a result of the self-imposed financial straitjacket of the previous era. The transfer business in the middle three-year period was really poor on balance, and it's largely why we are in such a pickle now.

There are positives, but they are relatively few. RAN and Toti are undeniably excellent signings given the massive appreciation of their valuations. £42m for Gibbs-White was a very good sale as well, albeit he really has become a key player for Forest and could've gotten international recognition under a less blinkered and favouritist England coach. The fees for Costa, Cavaleiro and Vinagre likewise saw decent profits. Podence was decent for us in spells (but will leave for either nothing or a snip).

Now, the negatives. It's not a nice thing to say about a youngster, but Fabio Silva at £35m will go down as the worst signing in the club's history, and it's not close. I can see a £20m loss, easily. Jeff's boy. I am loathe to mention Semedo after his strong performances under Gary, but on balance over four seasons, he simply hasn't justified the fee. Clubs of Wolves' standing simply do not commit £30m on a full back; it was a bonkers signing in retrospect. We would have been better off keeping Doherty (who himself was shipped for a poor fee IMO) and provided him with a cheaper competitor while distributing the remainder to more pressing positions.

For reasons beyond me, Jeff saw fit to sanction £10m on Ki-Jana Hoever before add-ons - who hitherto had a grant total of 4 appearances for Liverpool (and is now enjoying a Chump relegation battle with Stoke). Probably got span a yarn by Klopp. He also paid Barca €6m for the grand sum of 1400 minutes and three goal contributions from Trincao, while in turn allowing them to waste six months of Adama's dwindling contract because Jeff failed to negotiate a loan fee, let alone an obligation to buy. Amateur hour.

The £41m fee for Jota (paid in £10 weekly increments), ostensibly was good on paper but ages increasingly poorly given some of the fees going around for less talented players. When he's fit, he is a difference maker at the top end of the table. Finally, the way he treated club stalwart Romain Saiss was nothing less than shambolic (who would rub it in his face with a star turn at the 2022 World Cup).

More recently, we could also point to Jeff lucking out big time that the madmen of al-Ittihad came in with gaga money for Neves at the last minute. In a less randomly bat**** crazy moment in Football, he'd have been staring down the ignominy of the avatar of the Fosun era walking on a Bosman, or a desperately accepted low-ball fee.

My point moreover is that, the drastic remedial action we had to take wasn't just 'one of those things' or bad luck. It was bad decisions that brought us to that point.

It’s strange how you’re using a false equivalence to justify such a weak argument.
I’ve posted before that since Fosun and Jeff took over, they have made 40+ positive signings that were crucial to our success, that we’ve made money on or are still in our first team. How many have you listed that were positive?
How can you make a sound judgement on Jeff’s performance if you’re only ever going to use the signings that went tits-up, and also using subjectivity to diminish some of the good ones.
He’s far from perfect but success-wise, he’s been the best CEO/Chairman this club has had in 42 years.

 

[Timberwolf]

It's the height of Jeff's ambition, which is the main thing.

You know that isn’t true but if it keeps you warm at night, who am I to correct you.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

You know that isn’t true but if it keeps you warm at night, who am I to correct you.

How is it not?

There are always exceptions to the rule, but, generally, in every country across the planet, the teams that spend more, both on transfer fees and wages, will be higher in the table than the ones that don't.

It's really not rocket science. Right now, we have owners who don't want to spend, and our wage bill, I would guess, has rapidly dropped down the league.

No spending and low wage bill usually equals relegation in quick fashion from the Premier League.

We obviously have to hope we're an exception to the rule. Unfortunately, unlike a Brighton/Brentford, we don't have a track record that gives you much faith, especially as the one edge we arguably had, Jorge Mendes, has seemingly disappeared - and rightly so, after it no longer brought the results we wanted.

 

[Jefe]

It’s strange how you’re using a false equivalence to justify such a weak argument. I’ve posted before that since Fosun and Jeff took over, they have made 40+ positive signings that were crucial to our success, that we’ve made money on or are still in our first team. How many have you listed that were positive? How can you make a sound judgement on Jeff’s performance if you’re only ever going to use the signings that went tits-up, and also using subjectivity to diminish some of the good ones. He’s far from perfect but success-wise, he’s been the best CEO/Chairman this club has had in 42 years.

It'd help if you understood the argument I am making before mis-attributing logical fallacies. I am referring to a specific period of the club's time in the Premier League, not the low-resolution view of the ownership overall. Yes, what came before was nothing less than distilled magic, what came after has been impressive in its own, more modest way - the bit in between (the "****" in the **** sandwich, if I may) is where my focus lies in terms of the financial difficulties we are now facing. So please, regale the class with the scores of positive signings that were made in this period.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

It'd help if you understood the argument I am making before mis-attributing logical fallacies. I am referring to a specific period of the club's time in the Premier League, not the low-resolution view of the ownership overall. Yes, what came before was nothing less than distilled magic, what came after has been impressive in its own, more modest way - the bit in between (the "****" in the **** sandwich, if I may) is where my focus lies in terms of the financial difficulties we are now facing. So please, regale the class with the scores of positive signings that were made in this period.

Yes, we got in a mess basically from six months after Lage arrived until he left. Or if you really want from the day Raul got assaulted until the day Lage left (although there was a period of that when people talked about finishing 4th!). I think people are just confused as to why you feel the need to dwell on this mess after 18 months of sorting it out.

 

[VancouverWolf]

It’s strange how you’re using a false equivalence to justify such a weak argument.
I’ve posted before that since Fosun and Jeff took over, they have made 40+ positive signings that were crucial to our success, that we’ve made money on or are still in our first team. How many have you listed that were positive?
How can you make a sound judgement on Jeff’s performance if you’re only ever going to use the signings that went tits-up, and also using subjectivity to diminish some of the good ones.
He’s far from perfect but success-wise, he’s been the best CEO/Chairman this club has had in 42 years.

Bang on!

 

[chignalwolf]

With our place now guaranteed in the PL following Everton’s two points deduction (ignoring any appeals), can I congratulate the club on 7 consecutive seasons in the PL.

Well done to Gary, Matt and Jeff - a feat which in serious doubt at the start of the season.

This is our most successful run since the run from 1967/68 to 1975/76 when we achieved 9 consecutive seasons. Interestingly the 7th season in that run was the season we won the LC for the first time.

What is success for next season. Three suggestions - what are your top 3?

1. not being cheated out of points again,
2. finishing in top 7
3.beating the Vile, Liverpool and Spurs by double figures,

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

Yes, we got in a mess basically from six months after Lage arrived until he left. Or if you really want from the day Raul got assaulted until the day Lage left (although there was a period of that when people talked about finishing 4th!). I think people are just confused as to why you feel the need to dwell on this mess after 18 months of sorting it out.

I don’t think that Jeff’s failings (granted he has had successes) are limited to transfers though.

He appointed Zenga, Lambert and Lage, disenfranchised Nuno and has seemingly lied about the availability of resources to successive managers which has in turn led to poor PR for the club, underperformance on the pitch and compromising the value of our assets.

It’s not a balance sheet exercise as some would make it. It is the decision behind the transfer which is more indicative of strategic aptitude. Buying a player like Semedo may be fine in isolation but the club needed an athletic midfielder since Alfred N’Diaye and did not sign one until Mario Lemina. Even if Fabio was great, a reserve at that price is ridiculous and inadequate as back up to Raul, as we all found out.

Worst of all is the ‘oh no we are about to get effed by FFP’; is anticipating such regulatory intervention not management 1.01 for a CEO?

It is balanced by some great decisions particularly early on, but there have been a lot of alarming decisions which fall at Jeff’s door and most concerning as recently as last week as illustrated by GON.

 

[JohnB]

Maybe my maths are off. But don't we still need 2 points as things stand to make it official..

At first glance yes but once you allow for Forest, Luton, Everton and Brentford have to play each other which means at least one will drop points we are now mathematically safe as there is not a combination of results which could see all 4 overtake us. I’ve linked the analysis in the OP under the Teams that cannot catch us thread.

 

[Jefe]

Yes, we got in a mess basically from six months after Lage arrived until he left. Or if you really want from the day Raul got assaulted until the day Lage left (although there was a period of that when people talked about finishing 4th!). I think people are just confused as to why you feel the need to dwell on this mess after 18 months of sorting it out.

You mean to say, the people who keep referring me to a time in the 2010s as grounds for the wonderful job Fosun have done, are confused as to why I am dwelling on a time period much closer to the present day, which still affects our present and our potentially our future?

 

[Mancwolf56]

You mean to say, the people who keep referring me to a time in the 2010s as grounds for the wonderful job Fosun have done, are confused as to why I am dwelling on a time period much closer to the present day, which still affects our present and our potentially our future?

Overall would you say Fosun have been good, bad or simply indifferent as owners?

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

Overall would you say Fosun have been good, bad or simply indifferent as owners?

Given the entire tenure of their ownership i cannot see how anybody, anywhere would say they’ve been bad owners overall.