Wolves v West Ham United comms thread.

[Timberwolf]

I'm not sure that l personally would call a genuine Wolves fan (she was a London Wolves member) odious.

I know plenty of odious people who are Wolves fans…Oatley in comparison, is virtually a Disney princess.

 

[Contrarian]

I don't think anyone expects to go back to halcyon days of refs getting every decision right - because those days didn't exist. We just despise VAR as it has made everything about the game worse.

Exactly. And that offside today - we will see virtually identical goals given, even with VAR.

What's become clear with the use of VAR, is that it can't deliver the promise of correctness and objectivity. So we may as well go with the subjective and occasionally incorrect decisions made by just a ref, than subjective and occasionally incorrect decisions made with the frustration of VAR time delays. Let alone the cost of implementing it. Somebody's making profits from all the VAR tech.

 

[Perton Wolf]

Exactly. And that offside today - we will see virtually identical goals given, even with VAR.

What's become clear with the use of VAR, is that it can't deliver the promise of correctness and objectivity. So we may as well go with the subjective and occasionally incorrect decisions made by just a ref, than subjective and occasionally incorrect decisions made with the frustration of VAR time delays. Let alone the cost of implementing it. Somebody's making profits from all the VAR tech.

Agreed, it's not really solving the controversy or massively improving things, so might as well go back to how it was.

 

[wolfslair]

I know plenty of odious people who are Wolves fans…Oatley in comparison, is virtually a Disney princess.

Her short lived podcast with Tim spiers was great!!!

Her love for the club was there for all to see.

The queen of codsall is a great fan and champion of our club in the media

 

[dizzydonut]

VAR didn’t cost us anything today.

He was offside and directly infront of the keeper and his eye line.

Harsh as he wasn’t getting there, but it wasn’t the wrong decision in the eyes of the law…..

If that had been the other way, I bet you would have wanted that disallowed?

Also how soft was the “foul” that disallowed their header?

On this one, sorry, VAR while harsh wasn’t wrong

Rubbish

 

[Adrian_Monk]

I'm not sure that l personally would call a genuine Wolves fan (she was a London Wolves member) odious.

She's another cozy club member, a clueless club shill who stuck up for her mate Sellars who was feeding her bits and bobs to use in her commentary to make her look relevant and also strengthen the propaganda. Another one who blamed everything on big bad uncle Jorge.

Her short lived podcast with Tim spiers was great!!!

Her love for the club was there for all to see.

The queen of codsall is a great fan and champion of our club in the media

Champion of our club? Ever heard her on comms with Don Goodman? They pretty much echo the comms thread from here without the odd happy clapper comment from the yanks.

She's a fan, as is Charles Ross, but I wouldn't **** on either of them if they were on fire

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Whether he's getting near it or not is totally irrelevant.

Agreed. The offside rule has been misinterpreted here though. The goal should have stood.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

She's another cozy club member, a clueless club shill who stuck up for her mate Sellars who was feeding her bits and bobs to use in her commentary to make her look relevant and also strengthen the propaganda. Another one who blamed everything on big bad uncle Jorge.


Champion of our club? Ever heard her on comms with Don Goodman? They pretty much echo the comms thread from here without the odd happy clapper comment from the yanks.

She's a fan, as is Charles Ross, but I wouldn't **** on either of them if they were on fire

Wow. I don't know Jacqui O but I know some who do. They only have good things to say about her...

And she was definitely in attendance when we were **** too.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

VAR didn’t cost us anything today.

He was offside and directly infront of the keeper and his eye line.

Harsh as he wasn’t getting there, but it wasn’t the wrong decision in the eyes of the law…..

If that had been the other way, I bet you would have wanted that disallowed?

Also how soft was the “foul” that disallowed their header?

On this one, sorry, VAR while harsh wasn’t wrong

Factually incorrect. Read the relevant law, which penalises a player in an offside position preventing an opposition player from playing the ball. Fabianski didn't even attempt to play the ball because he was so far from it.

 

[Don Corleone]

Didn’t the city goal stand as well, now that player was definitely in an off side position and affecting play.
And there’s the real kicker for me, the inconsistency of the decisions being made.
It’s not a level playing field in any way with both VAR and PSR skewed so much in favour of the well established cosy club.

 

[wolfslair]

Gary needs to be careful with these sharing of behind the dressing room door conversations he is having with people.

Many managers say things in the dressing room or quick moment that is what they are thinking but not what they want out there publicly.

Moyes won’t be too happy that his name was included in GON’s comments and the extent of calling it “scandalous” as he won’t want the referees to think he is publicly going after them too.

GON needs to pump the brakes on what he shares or people will stop talking candidly with him.

I know why he did it, I understand it as a fan of wolves as we want to see his emotion and caring for us getting what we should have.

But professionally he needs to realise sometimes conversations are on the quiet and a “circle of trust” thing and not for public consumption.

 

[Mutchy]

Moyes won’t be too happy that his name was included in GON’s comments and the extent of calling it “scandalous” as he won’t want the referees to think he is publicly going after them too.

Maybe he shouldn't be so utterly two faced then.

 

[wolfslair]

Maybe he shouldn't be so utterly two faced then.

But how do we know he was utterly two faced?

We don’t know what he said……

He may have just said “that is a rough call, I thought it was a goal”

The likelyhood of Moyes and fabianski calling it such an emotive word as “scandalous” when it was in their favour isn’t likely.

Also, Moyes has to do what is best for him and his players. Slagging off the refs when he benefited publicly isn’t putting his team first.

Should you say publicly what you share behind closed doors on these things….. YES

But is it common practice for “off the record chats” to take place yes…. Moyes may well have thought it was an off the record chat

 

[Mutchy]

But how do we know he was utterly two faced?

We don’t know what he said……

He may have just said “that is a rough call, I thought it was a goal”

The likelyhood of Moyes and fabianski calling it such an emotive word as “scandalous” when it was in their favour isn’t likely.

Also, Moyes has to do what is best for him and his players. Slagging off the refs when he benefited publicly isn’t putting his team first.

Should you say publicly what you share behind closed doors on these things….. YES

But is it common practice for “off the record chats” to take place yes…. Moyes may well have thought it was an off the record chat

You weren't there, but you know better than GON what was said to him. Okay.

 

[Ned]

Whatever Moyes said to GON I don’t think it’s particularly good form to repeat it in the media unless he’s been given permission. Same for any chat between managers after a game, I can’t imagine Moyes was particularly happy with that. I’d imagine there’s a code between managers on this because you rarely hear about these chats in post match interviews.

 

[wolfslair]

You weren't there, but you know better than GON what was said to him. Okay.

Where did i say what was said as fact. I offered a line of what may have been said. As how many times has a manager said that a decision in their favour was “scandalous”?

And what I said could have happened still says that Moyes said it was a bad call….. never said that Moyes wouldn’t or didn’t agree with GON. Infact in an earlier post, I have said Moyes is an honest guy and will have said if it was wrong……. So I haven’t doubted the actual context of the conversation have I?

but GON is highly charged and highly emotional in that moment and may have recalled the conversation and the tone differently to how it was said. As “scandalous” isn’t a word used by Moyes yet……

So I only question, has GON used too harsh a word to paraphrase there conversation when speaking to the press. As I bet it was longer than the short moment he described it as……

You also called Moyes two faced……. Bit harsh isn’t it? Aren’t people allowed to have a private and confidential conversation without the risk of it going public?

I don’t know better, but also neither do you! You are accepting point blank only one half of the conversation as so far in his interviews Moyes hasn’t referred to the decision as scandalous…….

 

[Mutchy]

Where did i say what was said as fact. I offered a line of what may have been said. As how many times has a manager said that a decision in their favour was “scandalous”?

And what I said could have happened still says that Moyes said it was a bad call….. never said that Moyes wouldn’t or didn’t agree with GON. Infact in an earlier post, I have said Moyes is an honest guy and will have said if it was wrong……. So I haven’t doubted the actual context of the conversation have I?

but GON is highly charged and highly emotional in that moment and may have recalled the conversation and the tone differently to how it was said. As “scandalous” isn’t a word used by Moyes yet……

So I only question, has GON used too harsh a word to paraphrase there conversation when speaking to the press. As I bet it was longer than the short moment he described it as……

You also called Moyes two faced……. Bit harsh isn’t it? Aren’t people allowed to have a private and confidential conversation without the risk of it going public?

I don’t know better, but also neither do you! You are accepting point blank only one half of the conversation as so far in his interviews Moyes hasn’t referred to the decision as scandalous…….

GON has said one thing, but you offered a different line, so...
Now assuming GON wasn't lying completely it seems that Moyes has at the very least contradicted himself on camera. Why do that? Why not just be non committal? Thats two faced.

 

[wolfslair]

GON has said one thing, but you offered a different line, so...
Now assuming GON wasn't lying completely it seems that Moyes has at the very least contradicted himself on camera. Why do that? Why not just be non committal? Thats two faced.

Did I say GON lied? He has paraphrased into a short clip what was probably a longer conversation and he is highly emotional. I don’t think he is lying!!!!! I have said I think that conversation took place and Moyes said it was a bad decision…… it is the use of the word “scandalous” by Moyes and Fabianski is something i think is his own word to paraphrase an emotionally charged conversation at a time he was raging! And rightfully so.

But isn’t GON betraying the trust of Moyes who had a private conversation? Managers have behind closed doors conversations all the time, where they are more honest with each other than infront of the camera. The expectation is that the conversation stays between them.

Moyes isn’t going to upset the referees and hamper his own team is he? He says the decision is “scandalous” like GON said he did, then he also puts the spotlight and a probable FA disciplinary charge on himself and affect his own team….. why should he do that?

The referees have shown they stand by each other and he won’t want to get on their bad side. What does David Moyes the manager of West Ham owe us? He has to do what is best for his players and club.

It isn’t perfect, but sorry, I dont think Moyes is disrespectful or two faced. He is doing his job which is making sure he maintains a positive relationship with the referees who seem incompetent and at times like they harbour grudges to make sure his team don’t end up on the constant end of the **** stick like we always seem to.

 

[Mutchy]

Did I say GON lied? He has paraphrased into a short clip what was probably a longer conversation and he is highly emotional. I don’t think he is lying!!!!! I have said I think that conversation took place and Moyes said it was a bad decision…… it is the use of the word “scandalous” by Moyes and Fabianski is something i think is his own word to paraphrase an emotionally charged conversation at a time he was raging! And rightfully so.

But isn’t GON betraying the trust of Moyes who had a private conversation? Managers have behind closed doors conversations all the time, where they are more honest with each other than infront of the camera. The expectation is that the conversation stays between them.

Moyes isn’t going to upset the referees and hamper his own team is he? He says the decision is “scandalous” like GON said he did, then he also puts the spotlight and a probable FA disciplinary charge on himself and affect his own team….. why should he do that?

The referees have shown they stand by each other and he won’t want to get on their bad side. What does David Moyes the manager of West Ham owe us? He has to do what is best for his players and club.

It isn’t perfect, but sorry, I dont think Moyes is disrespectful or two faced. He is doing his job which is making sure he maintains a positive relationship with the referees who seem incompetent and at times like they harbour grudges to make sure his team don’t end up on the constant end of the **** stick like we always seem to.

A non committal comment on camera wouldn't have done any of that.

 

[wolfslair]

A non committal comment on camera wouldn't have done any of that.

That is fair.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Gary needs to be careful with these sharing of behind the dressing room door conversations he is having with people.

Many managers say things in the dressing room or quick moment that is what they are thinking but not what they want out there publicly.

Moyes won’t be too happy that his name was included in GON’s comments and the extent of calling it “scandalous” as he won’t want the referees to think he is publicly going after them too.

GON needs to pump the brakes on what he shares or people will stop talking candidly with him.

I know why he did it, I understand it as a fan of wolves as we want to see his emotion and caring for us getting what we should have.

But professionally he needs to realise sometimes conversations are on the quiet and a “circle of trust” thing and not for public consumption.

Let's not forget that Gary is the great deflector. He does this all the time, he'll concentrate on a moment of the game that catches everyone's attention...

This week it's the scandalous decision to disallow our equaliser, and he's right to complain...

We're all talking about it, the press 24 hours later are still talking about it and mentioning how unhappy Gary is...

Meanwhile nobody is talking about our abject second half performance that he...um...er...masterminded.

I'd like to see him on MNF talking about that second half performance, dissecting exactly where it went wrong...

Much like how he loves talking about his tactics when he gets it right. But instead we're all spitting bullets about the loss of a point that won't impact us at the end of the season in quite the same way as the loss of three points Inevitably will.

 

[Mutchy]

Let's not forget that Gary is the great deflector. He does this all the time, he'll concentrate on a moment of the game that catches everyone's attention...

This week it's the scandalous decision to disallow our equaliser, and he's right to complain...

We're all talking about it, the press 24 hours later are still talking about it and mentioning how unhappy Gary is...

Meanwhile nobody is talking about our abject second half performance that he...um...er...masterminded.

I'd like to see him on MNF talking about that second half performance, dissecting exactly where it went wrong...

Much like how he loves talking about his tactics when he gets it right. But instead we're all spitting bullets about the loss of a point that won't impact us at the end of the season in quite the same way as the loss of three points Inevitably will.

He didn't ignore the second half performance though, he admitted that was poor. Its something he can go away and work on behind closed doors too - something he can have an impact on within the confines of the players he has at his disposal.
Refereeing and VAR mistakes and inconsistencies though, thats a different matter. Thats a situation where the wider football world does need to come together and be talking about it to put pressure on those who can make a difference to how these decisions come about. It does need to be under, and remain under, the spotlight.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

He didn't ignore the second half performance though, he admitted that was poor. Its something he can go away and work on behind closed doors too - something he can have an impact on within the confines of the players he has at his disposal.
Refereeing and VAR mistakes and inconsistencies though, thats a different matter. Thats a situation where the wider football world does need to come together and be talking about it to put pressure on those who can make a difference to how these decisions come about. It does need to be under, and remain under, the spotlight.

The deflection works, there are no one is debating our second half tactics.

Plenty of outrage about the disallowed goal though.

 

[Mutchy]

The deflection works, there are no one is debating our second half tactics.

Plenty of outrage about the disallowed goal though.

You're missing the point completely.
One he can influence personally/privately. One he can't.

 

[Gold Umbro]

She's another cozy club member, a clueless club shill who stuck up for her mate Sellars who was feeding her bits and bobs to use in her commentary to make her look relevant and also strengthen the propaganda. Another one who blamed everything on big bad uncle Jorge.


Champion of our club? Ever heard her on comms with Don Goodman? They pretty much echo the comms thread from here without the odd happy clapper comment from the yanks.

She's a fan, as is Charles Ross, but I wouldn't **** on either of them if they were on fire

Blimey. Need a Snickers?
Plenty more stuff out there to get this angry about.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

You're missing the point completely.
One he can influence personally/privately. One he can't.

And you're missing my point...

It's actually very clever of GON. They're taking calls on that VAR decision on talksport as I type this...

Meanwhile the media continues to ignore his tactical ineptitude on Saturday afternoon...

Make no mistake, it's entirely deliberate on GON's part. He's had slopey shoulders since day 1.

Our questionable form at the start of the season was invariably answered by him drawing attention to "the mess" he inherited days before the season started.

I've not been very critical of GON at all, I think he's done a decent job and far exceeded my expectations...

I won't ignore what I consider to be a negative trait of his though. The media were gonna talk about VAR regardless, he used it as an opportunity to gloss over his own shortcomings, knowing full well the media were gonna jump on his VAR comments and not prove him in what was a shocking second half performance.

It seems to never be his fault, and that's a characteristic of his that I don't like.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

Blimey. Need a Snickers?

Not going to say no!