O'Neil or Lopetegui? - Poll

[Zico]

Not voting either way as it's another opportunity for the insecure to lambast Lopetegui's character despite knowing a fraction of the full story, and continue to absolve the club of any blame over how things turned out when it's pretty obvious to anyone who can look at things a bit more objectively that it isn't quite as black and white as some on here attempt to portray it.

Lopetegui did a fantastic job of keeping us up. Yes, he was given substantial resources to do so, and a large part of our success was down to Dawson and Lemina, but we've seen many times, almost exclusively, that managers regardless of experience or stature have failed to rescue teams who have been down the bottom all season and are used to losing, with confidence drained and the doom cloud hovering ominously above their heads no matter what they try. The football was mostly uninspiring but he knew what was needed to save us and didn't just manage it, he delivered a load of clean sheets and we stayed up comfortably.

You could argue that O'Neil's feat with Bournemouth would have suggested he'd have done the same here, but I don't think he would have. Bournemouth were pretty much expected to go down - there was much less pressure on O'Neil. He still did a fantastic job there, no question, but I think he'd have found the dressing room a tougher place to get onside given the egos we had around the place at the time. By the same token, I'm not sure Lopetegui would have kept Bournemouth up - again, a case of the right man in the right place at the right time.

People harp on about Brighton and Arsenal away, but I was there - the players had downed tools in the same way Bournemouth did as soon as they were safe. It's not ideal - but understandable that players will naturally drop their performance level substantially when they know safety has been achieved, and I suspect many of them were already thinking about where they would be playing this season (not for us) with much of that damage done before Lopetegui arrived. Although you could definitely say he didn't help things with some of the players in this category, he had a single brief - keep us up - and there will always be casualties in those situations.

This season, we are a different prospect. A fresh voice with fresh ideas and a mentality more atuned to that of the mostly younger, less established names in our squad. Training and preparation are not about a very specific short term goal, O'Neil has the freedom to freestyle a little because he's delivered some early results that have bought him time and credibility with the fans and the players. We are behaving like a newly promoted club, and O'Neil has us punching a bit above our weight. The football is more enjoyable and we are competing again.

Fosun have got a lot of things wrong, but last season we had the right guy for the occasion, and it's fair to say it's the same this season too.

Didn't think I would ever say this, but part of me is glad things didn't work out with Lopetegui. I suspect we treated him shabbily, as even abrasive characters like him don't tend to behave in the way he did without justification, but it has worked out well for us. O'Neil is a breath of fresh air - the important thing is we stay behind him even if things don't go so well for him for a while, as we have been spoiled a little recently with an extraordinary run of form that we probably won't sustain.

My hope is that going forward we can accept Lopetegui did a good job, accept that Jeff probably made his position untenable and accept O'Neil is the right man for the here and now - no need to keep going back over old ground, look forward not back.

I agree with much of that, yes. I would slightly take issue with us behaving like a newly promoted club. That does seem to have been the mentality to start with, but O'Neil is learning so quickly that we are looking a lot more mature than that. Comparisons with Nuno's first two Premier League seasons are possibly premature but I think fair actually, and for a newly promoted club they were definitely outliers!

 

[groundhogwolf]

How many points would have been deducted after our massive failure to meet the FFP rules JL in charge, also did his payoff contribute to our final figure.

 

[Jawwfc]

I don’t think anyone from Fergie to Pep to JL or GON could get a back 4 with the centre backs we have currently. For various reasons (barring Santi who we haven’t seen enough of) none of them have the skill set individually or as a pair to do it. The hybrid 5/4 we play depending on if we have the ball is as close as we will get

It's also a case of if it's not broke don't fix it, a lot of fans wanted a back 4 under Nuno as they believed it was holding us back, when we implemented a 4 our decline began.

I much prefer how we play now with a 4/5 toti slotting in at LB and one of the full backs playing as a midfielder.

 

[Nivada]

What difference has GON really made though?
We are STILL playing three central defenders, like we were under as far back as Nuno.
Bournemouth split from him because they didn't want low possession counter-attacking football, which we have now.

Although I love GON and what he's done for us since he's took over, it's not comparable to what Lop did when he took over IMO.

I was one of the fans hoping we'd make the permanent step to two central defenders and I feel we've gone backwards now, as GON has permanently gone back to three central defenders, he's not even bothering to try it anymore.

Yet we're scoring way more goals. That step to two central defenders inevitably came to nothing.

 

[Plovdiv Wolf]

It's also a case of if it's not broke don't fix it, a lot of fans wanted a back 4 under Nuno as they believed it was holding us back, when we implemented a 4 our decline began.

I much prefer how we play now with a 4/5 toti slotting in at LB and one of the full backs playing as a midfielder.

Same for me. We play best with the new system Gary made

 

[WickedWolfie]

Maybe scarred by the Pole without a goal!

Zyro wasn't bad until he got crocked....

 

[Oldgoldilox]

Not voting either way as it's another opportunity for the insecure to lambast Lopetegui's character despite knowing a fraction of the full story, and continue to absolve the club of any blame over how things turned out when it's pretty obvious to anyone who can look at things a bit more objectively that it isn't quite as black and white as some on here attempt to portray it.

Lopetegui did a fantastic job of keeping us up. Yes, he was given substantial resources to do so, and a large part of our success was down to Dawson and Lemina, but we've seen many times, almost exclusively, that managers regardless of experience or stature have failed to rescue teams who have been down the bottom all season and are used to losing, with confidence drained and the doom cloud hovering ominously above their heads no matter what they try. The football was mostly uninspiring but he knew what was needed to save us and didn't just manage it, he delivered a load of clean sheets and we stayed up comfortably.

You could argue that O'Neil's feat with Bournemouth would have suggested he'd have done the same here, but I don't think he would have. Bournemouth were pretty much expected to go down - there was much less pressure on O'Neil. He still did a fantastic job there, no question, but I think he'd have found the dressing room a tougher place to get onside given the egos we had around the place at the time. By the same token, I'm not sure Lopetegui would have kept Bournemouth up - again, a case of the right man in the right place at the right time.

People harp on about Brighton and Arsenal away, but I was there - the players had downed tools in the same way Bournemouth did as soon as they were safe. It's not ideal - but understandable that players will naturally drop their performance level substantially when they know safety has been achieved, and I suspect many of them were already thinking about where they would be playing this season (not for us) with much of that damage done before Lopetegui arrived. Although you could definitely say he didn't help things with some of the players in this category, he had a single brief - keep us up - and there will always be casualties in those situations.

This season, we are a different prospect. A fresh voice with fresh ideas and a mentality more atuned to that of the mostly younger, less established names in our squad. Training and preparation are not about a very specific short term goal, O'Neil has the freedom to freestyle a little because he's delivered some early results that have bought him time and credibility with the fans and the players. We are behaving like a newly promoted club, and O'Neil has us punching a bit above our weight. The football is more enjoyable and we are competing again.

Fosun have got a lot of things wrong, but last season we had the right guy for the occasion, and it's fair to say it's the same this season too.

Didn't think I would ever say this, but part of me is glad things didn't work out with Lopetegui. I suspect we treated him shabbily, as even abrasive characters like him don't tend to behave in the way he did without justification, but it has worked out well for us. O'Neil is a breath of fresh air - the important thing is we stay behind him even if things don't go so well for him for a while, as we have been spoiled a little recently with an extraordinary run of form that we probably won't sustain.

My hope is that going forward we can accept Lopetegui did a good job, accept that Jeff probably made his position untenable and accept O'Neil is the right man for the here and now - no need to keep going back over old ground, look forward not back.

I've kinda split the responsibility on who treated who badly in this debate between the club and Lopetegui. How balanced that split is however cant be clear without full transparency on both sides which we're never going to get. Clearly Lopetegui thought that he was going to get further funds to build his team in the summer. The fine detail of exactly how he came to that conclusion I guess we'll never know but I suspect he was told by either Hobbs or Shi that was the plan at some point before the full implications of PSR were known by the club.

Whether it was a misunderstanding, (from interviews, J-Lo doesnt strike me as a great listener), things lost in translation, he was knowingly mis-led (personally not buying that) or baseless assumptions were made, the fact is there was a baffling break down in communication between coach and senior management. It could just be that the maths said one thing in November and something else at the end of January.

You would hope, but cannot assume, that there was ongoing dialogue between all parties. For example, "Ok Julen, if we spend £xm on yyyy today, that's £xm less you have to spend in the summer. Comprende?". Come May, clearly the club knew that they needed to act to avoid sanctions and could not fund Lopetegui's requirements. I can understand him feeling aggrieved at that but he had the choice to knuckle down and get on with the job.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

It’s a tricky poll to answer for me.

O’Neil has done remarkably well, and exceeded expectations and we’re often playing some of the best football since the Nuno days.

But on the other hand, part of me would love to have seen what Lopetegui could do with this team, that United game we looked fantastic (despite losing) and I suspect a lot of that was JL’s work. I also feel that he has a brilliant presence about him, and was a big name, ultimately too big for Wolves maybe.

So for me O’Neil edges it, and rightfully so, but part of me will always be curious to know what Lopetegui could have achieved.

 

[Tring Wolf]

Not voting either way as it's another opportunity for the insecure to lambast Lopetegui's character despite knowing a fraction of the full story, and continue to absolve the club of any blame over how things turned out when it's pretty obvious to anyone who can look at things a bit more objectively that it isn't quite as black and white as some on here attempt to portray it.

Lopetegui did a fantastic job of keeping us up. Yes, he was given substantial resources to do so, and a large part of our success was down to Dawson and Lemina, but we've seen many times, almost exclusively, that managers regardless of experience or stature have failed to rescue teams who have been down the bottom all season and are used to losing, with confidence drained and the doom cloud hovering ominously above their heads no matter what they try. The football was mostly uninspiring but he knew what was needed to save us and didn't just manage it, he delivered a load of clean sheets and we stayed up comfortably.

You could argue that O'Neil's feat with Bournemouth would have suggested he'd have done the same here, but I don't think he would have. Bournemouth were pretty much expected to go down - there was much less pressure on O'Neil. He still did a fantastic job there, no question, but I think he'd have found the dressing room a tougher place to get onside given the egos we had around the place at the time. By the same token, I'm not sure Lopetegui would have kept Bournemouth up - again, a case of the right man in the right place at the right time.

People harp on about Brighton and Arsenal away, but I was there - the players had downed tools in the same way Bournemouth did as soon as they were safe. It's not ideal - but understandable that players will naturally drop their performance level substantially when they know safety has been achieved, and I suspect many of them were already thinking about where they would be playing this season (not for us) with much of that damage done before Lopetegui arrived. Although you could definitely say he didn't help things with some of the players in this category, he had a single brief - keep us up - and there will always be casualties in those situations.

This season, we are a different prospect. A fresh voice with fresh ideas and a mentality more atuned to that of the mostly younger, less established names in our squad. Training and preparation are not about a very specific short term goal, O'Neil has the freedom to freestyle a little because he's delivered some early results that have bought him time and credibility with the fans and the players. We are behaving like a newly promoted club, and O'Neil has us punching a bit above our weight. The football is more enjoyable and we are competing again.

Fosun have got a lot of things wrong, but last season we had the right guy for the occasion, and it's fair to say it's the same this season too.

Didn't think I would ever say this, but part of me is glad things didn't work out with Lopetegui. I suspect we treated him shabbily, as even abrasive characters like him don't tend to behave in the way he did without justification, but it has worked out well for us. O'Neil is a breath of fresh air - the important thing is we stay behind him even if things don't go so well for him for a while, as we have been spoiled a little recently with an extraordinary run of form that we probably won't sustain.

My hope is that going forward we can accept Lopetegui did a good job, accept that Jeff probably made his position untenable and accept O'Neil is the right man for the here and now - no need to keep going back over old ground, look forward not back.

Fabulous post.

 

[Jefe]

Given the debate has been reopened for the umpteenth time it has to be poll time. A simple question, based on the last 13 months would you rather have GON or Lopetegui?

Given the debate has been reopened for the umpteenth time, allow me to irritate everyone even further by floating a pointless poll of which there can be no useful answer because the circumstances, challenges and what-ifs for the two managers renders a comparison meaningless...

 

[loppers86]

i voted O’Neil.

I think he’s a better bet for the future than JL would be at this point in time, even though we all know he’s on a journey to West Ham.

I think JL deserves a lot of credit for keeping us up last season, recruiting the core of this successful team and he deserves an apology for the way he was lied to.

 

[Golden Arrow]

Given the debate has been reopened for the umpteenth time, allow me to irritate everyone even further by floating a pointless poll of which there can be no useful answer because the circumstances, challenges and what-ifs for the two managers renders a comparison meaningless...

Well said that man !!!
In BCD week, all we can do is have another ****** fall out about the previous and present incumbent. Let go FFS !

 

[WolfLing]

It's also a case of if it's not broke don't fix it, a lot of fans wanted a back 4 under Nuno as they believed it was holding us back, when we implemented a 4 our decline began.

I much prefer how we play now with a 4/5 toti slotting in at LB and one of the full backs playing as a midfielder.

It's funny really how our recent successes tend to revolve around the introduction of Toti!

He wasn't in either of Lopetegui's or O'Neil's first few lineups. But both ended up playing him regularly, either as a left-back, or as a centre-back/left-back hybrid when attacking and defending.

Also, Toti didn't start either of the 6-0 Brighton, or 5-0 Arsenal games. A couple of times that Lopetegui tried to become more expansive, and it back-fired spectacularly.

Toti has become a key player now, with his adaptability key to how we set up.

Not one top team plays with 3 centre backs and wing-backs regularly. I think that's partly why moving to a back 4 is seen as a progression. But what those teams do is adapt during games, pushing central defenders up into midfield, switching from a 4 to a 3. We are better at that than we have been under any previous manager.

For where we are, for the players we have, it's perfect at the moment. Like you say, if it's not broke, don't try to fix it!

 

[Andywolf74]

I think it’s pretty clear that the club gambled massively last January with a significant outlay to preserve our Premier league status. The gamble paid off but meant to avoid a points deduction under FFP, we were hugely limited with available funds last summer.
Big credit to JL for keeping us up last year and also his influence to push us away from our failing one track recruitment strategy. Lemina and Gomes are prime examples of what we could get by casting our net a bit further.
Huge credit to GON for the many fantastic things he’s achieved this season. After the Ipswich league cup defeat he was under immense pressure but has since steared us away from the relegation places and has got us scoring goals in the process.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I think it’s pretty clear that the club gambled massively last January with a significant outlay to preserve our Premier league status. The gamble paid off but meant to avoid a points deduction under FFP, we were hugely limited with available funds last summer.
Big credit to JL for keeping us up last year and also his influence to push us away from our failing one track recruitment strategy. Lemina and Gomes are prime examples of what we could get by casting our net a bit further.
Huge credit to GON for the many fantastic things he’s achieved this season. After the Ipswich league cup defeat he was under immense pressure but has since steared us away from the relegation places and has got us scoring goals in the process.

While l rated JL and was annoyed at his going l'm not sure, given that he is a Mendes client himself, what, if any, part he played in recruitment strategy changes. I think that is mainly down to Hobbs.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

I haven't read this thread or seen the poll but I bet the poll is about 75%/25% in GON's favour? I shall now see if I'm anywhere near right......................!

 

[Supadavewolf]

Lopetegui did a great job Gaz is doing a great job there’s really no need for a poll.

Unless it's Lewandowski.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

I haven't read this thread or seen the poll but I bet the poll is about 75%/25% in GON's favour? I shall now see if I'm anywhere near right......................!

92% -7% - blimey, the margin has surprised me. In Aug when GON came in the poll would have been exactly reversed I expect?

 

[Ginger Chimp]

Wow another pole.

Or, more accurately, a stick to beat someone with.

(See what I did there?).

 

[Andywolf74]

While l rated JL and was annoyed at his going l'm not sure, given that he is a Mendes client himself, what, if any, part he played in recruitment strategy changes. I think that is mainly down to Hobbs.

Yep fair comment that which gives even more credit to the excellent job Matt Hobbs is doing.
Recruitment wise we underestimated how you constantly need to evolve to stay afloat in the Premiership. First season up we played a different way to most Premier league teams and took them by surprise. By the third season it was no longer new, our performances and results were going backwards and it was foolish to bring in Lage and continue with the same recruitment strategy.

 

[WolfLing]

I think it’s pretty clear that the club gambled massively last January with a significant outlay to preserve our Premier league status. The gamble paid off but meant to avoid a points deduction under FFP, we were hugely limited with available funds last summer.
Big credit to JL for keeping us up last year and also his influence to push us away from our failing one track recruitment strategy. Lemina and Gomes are prime examples of what we could get by casting our net a bit further.
Huge credit to GON for the many fantastic things he’s achieved this season. After the Ipswich league cup defeat he was under immense pressure but has since steared us away from the relegation places and has got us scoring goals in the process.

Whether it was through design, or through luck, it all worked out OK in the end.

Had we appointed someone like O'Neil last season, would we have stayed up? Maybe.

But we probably wouldn't have attracted names like Cunha, Lemina or Sarabia, and maybe even Joao Gomes would have chosen to go to Lyon. They all signed under Lopetegui, but have gone on to thrive under GON.

 

[The House of Wolves]

92% -7% - blimey, the margin has surprised me. In Aug when GON came in the poll would have been exactly reversed I expect?

Indeed it was.

So maybe fans might now recognise they know **** all about football manager recruitment and should leave it to the experts?

 

[Greeno]

Wow another pole.

...without a goal?

 

[tonto]

Indeed it was.

So maybe fans might now recognise they know **** all about football manager recruitment and should leave it to the experts?

Where’s the fun in that, I don’t mind making a fool of myself, unlike some

 

[Timberwolf]

What difference has GON really made though?
We are STILL playing three central defenders, like we were under as far back as Nuno.
Bournemouth split from him because they didn't want low possession counter-attacking football, which we have now.

Although I love GON and what he's done for us since he's took over, it's not comparable to what Lop did when he took over IMO.

I was one of the fans hoping we'd make the permanent step to two central defenders and I feel we've gone backwards now, as GON has permanently gone back to three central defenders, he's not even bothering to try it anymore.

Yeah, what have the Romans ever done for us, ay?

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

...without a goal?

Eugh just the thought of the “missing part of the jigsaw” Frankowski, has brought me out in a cold sweat.

 

[steve vena]

Or, more accurately, a stick to beat someone with.

(See what I did there?).

Poll sorry lol.

 

[Monk]

Wolves feels like a club I actively love again rather than suffering it out of loyalty and habit, and that is all down to one man. We're a genuinely exciting team to watch for the first time in years

I have definitely been one of GONs biggest critics - I still have reservations but I'm starting to think he has something about him. At the moment the above two sentences sum it up aptly (particularly the highlighted part) for me as well.

Caveat attached if it goes pear shaped Sunday remove the poll!!!

 

[Sedgers]

Indeed it was.

So maybe fans might now recognise they know **** all about football manager recruitment and should leave it to the experts?

I voted to keep him. And I was at Chorley. Honest

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Indeed it was.

So maybe fans might now recognise they know **** all about football manager recruitment and should leave it to the experts?

Yes indeed! Last year B'mouth hired GON to keep them in the Prem and he did this with 4 games to spare. We were bookies favourites to go down in Aug so in hindsight GON was the ideal candidate to keep us up, which he is doing in style!

 

[Andywolf74]

Indeed it was.

So maybe fans might now recognise they know **** all about football manager recruitment and should leave it to the experts?

Hobbs said at the time that GON’s presentation and vision for the football team was fantastic. Twenty nine points at this stage of the season, suggests it was a good call.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Lopetegui kept Wolves in the Premier League, which was a good effort considering the position the club were in when he took over.

O‘Neil has the Wolves sitting pretty in midtable, also a good effort considering he took over only a couple of day before the season started.

So both have done well in differing circumstances. Maybe the ideal manager would be Gary O‘Lopetegui.

 

[Plovdiv Wolf]

Lopetegui kept Wolves in the Premier League, which was a good effort considering the position the club were in when he took over.

O‘Neil has the Wolves sitting pretty in midtable, also a good effort considering he took over only a couple of day before the season started.

So both have done well in differing circumstances. Maybe the ideal manager would be Gary O‘Lopetegui.

Is he still live in Wolverhampton?

Friendly game be fun at training ground, if manage one team Lopetegui other O'Neil get the cameras out. The media would love it. Current vs old manager.

 

[Jefe]

92% -7% - blimey, the margin has surprised me. In Aug when GON came in the poll would have been exactly reversed I expect?

Nothing like an MM poll to highlight "Current Thing" mentality. O'Neil having single-digit support in September was absurd; Lopetegui now having the same is equally so.

 

[lets all have a disco]

I

Yes indeed! Last year B'mouth hired GON to keep them in the Prem and he did this with 4 games to spare. We were bookies favourites to go down in Aug so in hindsight GON was the ideal candidate to keep us up, which he is doing in style!

We wasn't bookies favourites....maybe favourite outside of the promoted clubs .

 

[hollo]

It's a results business and he has got results, got players scoring, and got them fit.
I was proven wrong on everything.

 

[jrpb-3]

Back in July, given a choice between Lopetegui & O'Neil, J-Lo wins every time.

I genuinely thought he was very harshly treated by Bournemouth and expected GON to turn up at a Championship club and would continue to build his reputation. As it stands Im pleased that he actually turned up at Wolves and eight months on the choice is equally easy to make and its Gaz every time. That's football for you.

Well Lop clearly didn’t think he could do it with these players, and the limited funds to change that was the big reason he left. Lop has proven himself a good manager over several clubs, and was able to turn results round fairly quickly last season. Only half a season for GON so far but starting to play some great stuff, and maybe now starting as well as scoring more the defence is starting to look a bit more solid. Overall Lop might be the better manager, but I’d rather watch the football were playing this season.

 

[BillyBoots]

It's a results business and he has got results, got players scoring, and got them fit.
I was proven wrong on everything.

So did most of us buddy

 

[jrpb-3]

When will we get the GON or Nuno poll?

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Much as Julen is a spineless coward he is still a better manager as well but i am happy with where GON is heading with us so far.