Stadium Plans

[DJMolineux]

The problem is that it’s the Steve Bull that really needs rebuilding, but in doing so you’d make the seats less cramped and take out the curvature, bringing stand closer to the pitch. This would mean a bigger stand but very few, if any , extra seats. So revenue from it wont increase much. Sadly it doesn’t make business sense.

A larger upper tier could unquestionably increase capacity and with more use made commercially of boxes and rented out space would certainly make it a good investment

 

[wolvesjoe]

Fosun's biggest mistake by far. Nothing else comes close.

A chance to raise the average attendance to 40,000, increase the fanbase, pull in
fans from the wider West Midlands and Shropshire areas. A real legacy to bequeave
the fans and the city.

A chance to built something grand and beautiful, which would also lift Wolverhampton as a whole.

In investment terms, it would just add value, and would pay for itself over a 10--20 year period.

But that's not the main point. The last seven years has been a lost opportunity to raise the club's
profile hugely and, by making cheaper tickets possible, widen the supporter base as well.

Fosun appear to have just ignored the example of West Ham, who have taken the gifted opportunity of
the Olympic stadium and made huge gains as a football club, pained as I am to admit that.

Really, really hard to fully understand. One can only presume that there have been factors at play that
we do not know about.

 

[Bostin]

They got permission to put another temp stand between the South Bank and Steve Bull.

The consent can't be far off lapsing, but if they want to add more seats without a huge outlay it seems like a sensible option.

 

[Minimalist]

A larger upper tier could unquestionably increase capacity and with more use made commercially of boxes and rented out space would certainly make it a good investment

Even IF it was done in such a way that you got a few extra thousand seats it really isn’t going to start making you a profit for so long that it’s just not business viable.

It would probably take 10+ years to make back the lost income incurred from not having a stand at all for 2 seasons (while construction was in progress)

I’d love to see it done, and there are some good reasons to do it (growing fan base, image of club/brand, giving fans better facilities, and maybe some additional revenue streams like a bar similar to the north bank one or a space useable by the university) but from a purely financial point of view the investment would take so long to pay for itself that I’d be surprised to see Fosun do it.

 

[Olivergoldblack]

Fosun's biggest mistake by far. Nothing else comes close.

A chance to raise the average attendance to 40,000, increase the fanbase, pull in
fans from the wider West Midlands and Shropshire areas. A real legacy to bequeave
the fans and the city.

A chance to built something grand and beautiful, which would also lift Wolverhampton as a whole.

In investment terms, it would just add value, and would pay for itself over a 10--20 year period.

But that's not the main point. The last seven years has been a lost opportunity to raise the club's
profile hugely and, by making cheaper tickets possible, widen the supporter base as well.

Fosun appear to have just ignored the example of West Ham, who have taken the gifted opportunity of
the Olympic stadium and made huge gains as a football club, pained as I am to admit that.

Really, really hard to fully understand. One can only presume that there have been factors at play that
we do not know about.

Totally agree

 

[Wolf316]

They got permission to put another temp stand between the South Bank and Steve Bull.

The consent can't be far off lapsing, but if they want to add more seats without a huge outlay it seems like a sensible option.

Got a feeling it runs out next summmer.

 

[Beeches wolf]

Unfortunately I think we missed a golden opportunity in the Steve Morgan era, when building costs were much lower and with his builders contacts.
I.M.O the S.B stand should have been replaced first.

 

[DJMolineux]

Even IF it was done in such a way that you got a few extra thousand seats it really isn’t going to start making you a profit for so long that it’s just not business viable.

It would probably take 10+ years to make back the lost income incurred from not having a stand at all for 2 seasons (while construction was in progress)

I’d love to see it done, and there are some good reasons to do it (growing fan base, image of club/brand, giving fans better facilities, and maybe some additional revenue streams like a bar similar to the north bank one or a space useable by the university) but from a purely financial point of view the investment would take so long to pay for itself that I’d be surprised to see Fosun do it.

If your point held water then there would never be a new stand built at any stadium in the country. We have seen with the North Bank increased capacity, much improved concourse, additional facilities, commercial spaces, new boxes etc. I’m sure that investment has proven to be worthwhile. The reason we are not progressing with other stands is nothing to do with viability. It’s that Fosun are not at the moment putting additional funds into the club. And this in turn is why the club is looking for private investors

 

[Minimalist]

If your point held water then there would never be a new stand built at any stadium in the country. We have seen with the North Bank increased capacity, much improved concourse, additional facilities, commercial spaces, new boxes etc. I’m sure that investment has proven to be worthwhile. The reason we are not progressing with other stands is nothing to do with viability. It’s that Fosun are not at the moment putting additional funds into the club. And this in turn is why the club is looking for private investors

It’s worth building a new stand when the replacement is vastly financially superior to the one it replaces; Fulham and Liverpools new stands are good examples.
So was our new north bank, as it had 50% bigger capacity and crucially added new corporate are. That will have paid for itself. Much cheaper to build and relatively much greater improvement on its predecessor.

Also, if your point “held water” fosun would have done it….

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Covid killed all the plans tbf
Costs more than doubled,the team started on a downward curve,so Prem football was no longer seen as a given,and several managers came and went with costs incurred not to mention transfer business
Im sure Fosun would love to do the Hotel complex version of stadium improvements,but imo the only viable redevelopment strategy would be a new stadium in another area of town
I realise there would be an initial backlash but in time everyone would go along with it as it just makes sense

 

[Bostin]

Got a feeling it runs out next summmer.

Just checked - decision was granted 21st May 2020 so it will have expired.

Wouldn't be a problem to reapply, but if they did it would give us the signal of intent that they were going to do it.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Just checked - decision was granted 21st May 2020 so it will have expired.

Wouldn't be a problem to reapply, but if they did it would give us the signal of intent that they were going to do it.

I think the current (although certainly not imminent) plan to remodel the Steve Bull lower meant that the corner plans no longer made sense. I find it incredible that clubs build stands for an FA Cup game, but it isn't worth putting a corner that would probably sell out every game, but I guess there are complications.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Why can't Jeff Shi just rebuild the rest of Molineux, then have a statue of himself outside. I think that's a fair deal. Sir Jack did a lot of work on the ground, yet Fosun think about their wallets.

What was SJH doing when he tightened the purse strings?

Jack thought throwing millions at Wolves would guarantee PL football. He was very wrong and eventually "lost interest" which meant more years in the wilderness.

Oh and he didn't "save" the club either. He could have but chose a more opportune time to take control of Wolves, long after we were saved.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

If your point held water then there would never be a new stand built at any stadium in the country. We have seen with the North Bank increased capacity, much improved concourse, additional facilities, commercial spaces, new boxes etc. I’m sure that investment has proven to be worthwhile. The reason we are not progressing with other stands is nothing to do with viability. It’s that Fosun are not at the moment putting additional funds into the club. And this in turn is why the club is looking for private investors

Owners have very different drivers for owning and investing in football clubs.

Sir Jack was a lifelong Wolves fan, and Molineux was decrepit so he built three (for the time) expensive replacement stands. He didn’t get nor seek a financial return from it. Morgan was a property developer who invested in the training ground and North Bank, and bought up land around Molineux because that’s his business.

Man City struggle to fill the Etihad yet are moving ahead with very expensive plans to expand it. Why might that be? Their owners aren’t looking for an immediate financial return on investing in Man City, but they do want prestige. For that they need the ability to invest in the team, and FFP now means they are somewhat constrained. So expand the stadium, sell another 10k season tickets (best not ask who are buying them) and other matchday revenue, and hey presto, they can spend another xx million a year on players. No surprise that Newcastle are dusting off plans to expand St James Park for similar reasons. Ratcliffe is a boyhood Man Utd fan, and a shrewd businessman, so I suspect he will see both value and personal interest in rebuilding Old Trafford.

Fosun bought Wolves as a financial investment. If they can’t make an investment in expanding the stadium pay a better return than spending the same amount of money elsewhere in their portfolio, then they won’t invest it in Molineux. If they had to invest in Molineux to sustain Wolves in the PL, which itself is valuable, then likely they would, but so far that hasn’t proven to be the case.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Picked up a snippet from the daily E&S history of our fall from grace and near death in the early 80’s. I’d heard about the Bhattis plans for Molineux when they took over, but being young at the time, and living away from the area, hadn’t seen any details. This part of the story provided an interesting insight. A 35k stadium with filled in corners, a supermarket, offices and science park. A very ambitious timeline for development…. Ultimately rejected by the council under pressure from the city centre retail groups. Whether it would have been fully delivered had approval been given, is an unanswered alternative history question.

How Wolves plunged to the lower leagues and nearly ceased to exist - Part 7: Grand plans for Molineux unravel

In more detail than ever before, the Express & Star tells the full Bhatti brothers story - a troubled era which saw Wolves plunge to depths of the lower leagues and face financial oblivion. In Part 7, cracks grow deeper for Wolves on the pitch and grand plans for Molineux start to unravel.

www.expressandstar.com

 

[Monketron]

Every new owner has 'stadium plans' and every new owner conveniently forgets them once the fanfare has died down.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Every new owner has 'stadium plans' and every new owner conveniently forgets them once the fanfare has died down.

To be fair to Sir Jack, he followed through, and actually finished his. Morgan also started his, even if he gave up after the first phase, much like Marshall did before the Bhattis.

 

[Wignall 3-0]

I like to watch the EFL highlights programme. You get to see panoramic views of the live TV featured grounds. Watched a Stoke game the other week (why why why?) and you got a great view of the large main stand not connected to the bowl. They have two banks of corporate/private boxes, one middle one at the top iirc. Our North Bank is a big stand, continue it round, to fill the corner of the South Bank if possible. Double row of boxes in whatever configuration and more seats for the fans. The Steve Bull has been up for 40 years? Get 40 years out of a new one.

 

[WickedWolfie]

To be fair to Sir Jack, he followed through, and actually finished his. Morgan also started his, even if he gave up after the first phase, much like Marshall did before the Bhattis.

Marshall didn't have a whole lot of choice given that the club went bust.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Marshall didn't have a whole lot of choice given that the club went bust.

Yeah, I know. Circumstance more than choice stopped him.

It might also be argued that the Bhattis didn’t have much choice either, since the council blocked their plans to redevelop Molineux and build a supermarket and other facilities to help finance it, along with a healthy dose of public sector grants. Of course whether they could or would actually have delivered on those plans had they been given planning, is a moot point.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Yeah, I know. Circumstance more than choice stopped him.

It might also be argued that the Bhattis didn’t have much choice either, since the council blocked their plans to redevelop Molineux and build a supermarket and other facilities to help finance it, along with a healthy dose of public sector grants. Of course whether they could or would actually have delivered on those plans had they been given planning, is a moot point.

Given that they didn't seem to have even two bent washers to their name....

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Given that they didn't seem to have even two bent washers to their name....

In hindsight, it looks like their plans relied on securing public funding, planning permission, and then with this, borrow the rest of the money needed to finish the project using the (enhanced) club assets as collateral. It can be done, but it’s very risky.

 

[Clifton Wolf]

If we could just follow the North Bank round to replace the Steve Bull and then connect it to the South Bank that would do for me and take us to 37ish k which I feel would be plenty and replace an awfully dated stand with no room for movement.

 

[Stourport wolf]

Seville have announced that they are building a new 55,000 ground, which will take 2 years to finish. It will look similar inside, but will have one single tier stand that will hold 15,000 spectators and a huge new roof, which will be useful for shade.

 

[steve vena]

I think we'd fill 40, 000 easy, I just don't think they are bothered though.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Seville have announced that they are building a new 55,000 ground, which will take 2 years to finish. It will look similar inside, but will have one single tier stand that will hold 15,000 spectators and a huge new roof, which will be useful for shade.

I want one!
You offering a helpful ground share while they build this beautiful thing?

 

[WasStefan]

I think we'd fill 40, 000 easy, I just don't think they are bothered though.

If we put prices 25% cheaper than they are now then yes

But by dropping prices you negate the need for expansion

Fosun had the chance 2 or 3 years ago before raising tickets to instead invest in infrastructure, incrementally increase season tickets by small amounts (inflation?) but have maybe 6 or 7,000 more in attendance.

They missed that opportunity. We have shown at the current pricing level that 31,500 is more than enough.

 

[old wittonian]

Seville have announced that they are building a new 55,000 ground, which will take 2 years to finish. It will look similar inside, but will have one single tier stand that will hold 15,000 spectators and a huge new roof, which will be useful for shade.

Is it being named the Julen Lopetegui stadium?

 

[Wolf316]

Is it being named the Julen Lopetegui stadium?

Or the ***** ********* stadium if you’re @Stourport wolf

 

[AndyY]

I think we'd fill 40, 000 easy, I just don't think they are bothered though.

Oh, I am sure they would do it…..if the business case stacked up. But as has been pointed out several times by several people, the cost of doing so is high, and the time period to achieve a suitable return in investment is long.
Plus there is the loss of revenue during the rebuild period due to the lower capacity whilst construction is taking place

 

[hollo]

It was 16 million to extend the steve bull stand and 64 million to extend the south bank.
How are we going to raise that kind of money?

 

[A3wolf]

Seville have announced that they are building a new 55,000 ground, which will take 2 years to finish. It will look similar inside, but will have one single tier stand that will hold 15,000 spectators and a huge new roof, which will be useful for shade.

Nice ground with the single tier stand behind the goal and interesting how they are digging below ground to create extra capacity. Don’t know what it is but has a vibe to me that it will lose the close intimate feel probably due to the big concourses and what looks like deck chair areas outside and always prefer a roof that is solidly connected to the wall of the back row than having an air gap there.

 

[Stourport wolf]

I want one!
You offering a helpful ground share while they build this beautiful thing?

No, thank God. I would have thought they would be using La Cartuja Stadium , which is a vacant stadium in Seville. It was built for athletic events originally, but gets used for finals in Europe and nationally.

Estadio de La Cartuja - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Stourport wolf]

Nice ground with the single tier stand behind the goal and interesting how they are digging below ground to create extra capacity. Don’t know what it is but has a vibe to me that it will lose the close intimate feel probably due to the big concourses and what looks like deck chair areas outside and always prefer a roof that is solidly connected to the wall of the back row than having an air gap there.

Yes, El Nervion, is basically part of a shopping centre called Nervion too. Anyone who has been there would know there is train station about 400 metres away and a tram station over the road.

 

[Stourport wolf]

Or the ***** ********* stadium if you’re @Stourport wolf

He has gone and the only reason I talked about him, was because someone posted about how Lopetegui would have more points if he was still here. I hadn't posted about him for 9 weeks till that post.
He has gone and that is the end of it for me. I supported him when he was manager and would have supported him if he was still here, but he isn’t.
I always support who is managing our famous club and always will.

 

[WickedWolfie]

He has gone and the only reason I talked about him, was because someone posted about how Lopetegui would have more points if he was still here. I hadn't posted about him for 9 weeks till that post.
He has gone and that is the end of it for me. I supported him when he was manager and would have supported him if he was still here, but he isn’t.
I always support who is managing our famous club and always will.

To be fair to @Stourport wolf he is trying to get out of this sterile done-to-death debate and people keep trying to drag him back in.

 

[Wolf316]

He has gone and the only reason I talked about him, was because someone posted about how Lopetegui would have more points if he was still here. I hadn't posted about him for 9 weeks till that post.
He has gone and that is the end of it for me. I supported him when he was manager and would have supported him if he was still here, but he isn’t.
I always support who is managing our famous club and always will.

Just a bit of fun mate apologies if you thought it was serious

 

[Stourport wolf]

Just a bit of fun mate apologies if you thought it was serious

No of course not. I am always up for a laugh, it makes life more fun.

 

[Stourport wolf]

Nice ground with the single tier stand behind the goal and interesting how they are digging below ground to create extra capacity. Don’t know what it is but has a vibe to me that it will lose the close intimate feel probably due to the big concourses and what looks like deck chair areas outside and always prefer a roof that is solidly connected to the wall of the back row than having an air gap there.

You need air and shade with 45° for so many days.

 

[Banks's Mild]

If we put prices 25% cheaper than they are now then yes

But by dropping prices you negate the need for expansion

Fosun had the chance 2 or 3 years ago before raising tickets to instead invest in infrastructure, incrementally increase season tickets by small amounts (inflation?) but have maybe 6 or 7,000 more in attendance.

They missed that opportunity. We have shown at the current pricing level that 31,500 is more than enough.

Agree in principle with that but not sure that the current capacity is restricted just by price. I know of several that just don't bother looking anymore because they found it a hassle to get seats together and refuse to sit in the Graham Hughes stand.
The prices for games on an individual basis is too high imo but still think we could comfortably sell 40,000 for most games if the completely outdated Steve Bull was rebuilt and possibly the Southbank made bigger as well, along with getting rid of the ridiculous open stand.
But like most I don't think the current owners have any interest in developing the ground anyway which is a great shame.