I wouldn't read too much into it. GON has a clean slate with a long season ahead to implement his ideals; JL had no such luxury. It was a batten-down-the-hatches deconstruction job from the moment he came in, and it needed to be. Get the players reacquainted with the feeling of being competitive in matches first. Home games especially were targeted for winning from the odd goal in one.
Great post.
There was a big January spend as well.
he’s not a top manager? very capable, but flawed.
I’d say top but certainly not elite.
It’s business and things change, you adapt and rise to the challenge or you walk away.
If Hoddle were chocolate he’d eat himself, he used to like to show the players that he was better than them in training.
They’ve had some big injuries Mings and someone else, but have a big squad.
This 100 percent
So what if he gets it, since Ferguson they’ve had a lot of managers and some very average ones at that.
I don’t think they’ve had average managers (barring Moyes and OGS), more that the absolute mess they have been in since SAF retired has made some elite level managers look exceptionally ordinary. It’s strange how what looked like run a well run club on and off the field has fallen apart since their leader went. They’re a million miles off it now and it doesn’t look like altering anytime soon.
Those were the two that immediately sprung to mind.
Well yes, but on that basis I can only think of two possible things that I think can have changed to be able to say that the goalposts moved, rather than he was actually lied to.
I think Moyes is decent, done a good job over the years at the majority of clubs. United was a massive mistake (but he couldn’t turn it down). Replacing arguably the greatest club manager was a job too far especially as it was a squad that had had the last bits rung out of it and the noisy neighbours spending heavily. Fergie was brilliant at timing and he timed his exit perfectly as I’m sure he could see what the City future was.
I don't knock Lop for walking away either, he was undoubtedly promised big backing from Shi in order to take the job with the position we were in. He was backed with a few key signings in January and did his job of (comfortably) keeping us up, but was then told he had to make an almost £100million profit on transfers in the Summer.
I don't blame the club though either, landscapes, priorities and challenges change, a really good manager stays and proves that he's good.
Personally think GON is doing much more than a decent job. Had it not been for the numerous VAR debacles we’d be round the Europa spots that JL quit for because he didn’t think we could get there.
Couldn’t agree more. I think he spat his dummy really rather than stay and fight to show how good he really is, if a “PE teacher” can get us in 12th (should be 7-8 without Var nonsense) then what could the “elite” coach have achieved.
I've also defended him on a regular basis, quoting his scoring stats which were always decent-ish, especially given he was sometimes picked in a position that didn't play to his strengths.
Think you're always going to get the odd decision go against you.....so an extra 7pts in an ideal world, perhaps 4 to 5 if we're being more realistic. I say decent because our away form still hasn't been good, and we've only played 2 out of the top 10 away so there's much tougher games to come. Obviously we've done fairly well at home so far, as we did under Lop.
The one appointment worse than OGS would have been Giggs.
There are a number of different stories about what exactly happened around Lopetegui's coming, staying, and leaving the club. As I don't have inside knowledge about the club, Lopetegui's mind, FOSUN's intentions , Jeff's part in all this etc.etc., I can only go by what I read in the news. And that could mostly fit any of the different scenarios put forward, and more besides.
Any proof that it was?
Well GoN said on Monday that his remit was to make a massive profit in the Summer (the club) and stay up. I cannot imagine Emery would stay at Villa if NSWE told him that was their ambition.
Indeed. GON is and was the perfect appointment for FOSUN's new era of austerity, evidenced by him saying in the week that he's always happy to work with whatever squad the club give him. He certainly won't be pushing for money to be spent, that's for sure.
What happens if you actually type Lopetegui?
Ugh. Without counting every single poor refereeing call against every side that may have factored into their results, you cannot just blithely assert we'd be chasing Europe; the table would look totally different for all our rivals too. It's a one-dimensional idea with no critical thought behind it, that continues to be promulgated by the credulous.
The poster I was replying to clearly believed that Lopetegui's version of events was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth - i.e. that he had been lied to several times, that it had all been the fault of the board, and that he was behaving entirely honourably.
I understand if he types it five times, Loppyman comes out of the keyboard and snatches him.
I applaud your refusal to accept what anyone says as gospel, but I wasn't claiming to know anything beyond what has been put in the public domain, mostly by Hobbs. If there are other possible scenarios to the two I suggested, please feel free to put them forward. The thing is (as with the debate I was having the other day over Nunes), unsurprisingly most people judge these things from the perspective of a Wolves fan. None of us would have behaved like Lopetegui, we'd have said fair enough, the goalposts keep moving but I'll do my best. It's not reasonable to expect someone else to do that. There is also a lot of gilted boyfriend 'never fancied her anyway' rewriting of history, how many people were calling for him to be sacked in May?
Even neutrals agree that we have had a stupidly disproportionate number of bad calls against us. I agree, we can't know for certain where we would be in the table without that. But looking at the table as it is, the likelihood is that we'd be at least closer towards the European places. This from an inexperienced manager who came in with no pre season preparation. Yet Lopetegui, an alleged elite manager, didn't fancy trying.
I agree we've been disproportionately affected to the point I believe the agents of PIGMOL have it in for us, hence I agree we'd likely have more points and the gap to 7th would be fewer than 8. But unless we can confidently say that Fulham, Brentford, Chelsea, West Ham, Brighton and Newcastle have not suffered dodgy decisions that perhaps cost them points, or indeed the sides near-below us like Palace and Bournemouth, then it as useful as a thought experiment as debating the existence of unicorns.
Arsenal after Arsene Wengers exit were pretty much in the same situation, a expensive but rudderless ship.
United were decent but not great before Ferguson, that's what their fans always forget. With a fan base feeling entitled to constant success, and Ferguson hanging around in the background casting a shadow over any successor, it's all a recipe for exactly what we've seen since. Shame.
I don't really want to add to the largely unfounded speculation, masquerading as "fact", posted in these forum threads concerning Lopetegui and his relationship with Wolves, and I haven't had time to look back on your two possible scenarios, although I assume that one must have accepted Lopetegui's version of events as entirely accurate. However as you have invited me to put forward my own speculation, here goes. FOSUN had been rather dodgy in their relationship to FFP. This also was the case with a great many other clubs in the EPL, and indeed further down the "pyramid". Some time last year however, it became apparent to Wolves that flouting FFP could have serious consequences - perhaps the FA or some other body had sent the relevant clubs a warning on this, a warning which had teeth - see Everton. Hence the "fire sale" in the summer. The situation was so different, that Lopetegui decided to leave. As you say, this was quite understandable, and no one should blame him for doing so. However to do so at such short notice, just before the start of a new season - that's a different matter. As is circulating widely a version of events which has himself as a blameless shining hero.
Good points. But I think Arsenal owners and fans accepted the years in the doldrums, although of course they didn't like them, in the knowledge that better times lay ahead. I'm not sure Man U fans and especially their owners (whoever they may be), expect to have more years failing to qualify for Europe and finishing mid-table until the new Messiah arrives and jettisons the 'dead wood'.
