Lage OUT

[superwolves]

Just conveniently meant you were able to include Preston, but not Spurs in which Nunes made his debut and Guedes started.

I’m not sure it’s the defence you think it is either, included in that run is a game against a team who’d just conceded a joint record 9, and yet we managed 4 shots on target. Against Newcastle we had just 36% of the ball and they had 21 shots and 13 corners. Southampton would have equalised were it not for a brain fart from Adams and then who knows what would have happened.

The 1st half against spurs was actually some of the best football we've seen if we can reproduce that then we're onto something

 

[The Clock]

I’d only get rid of Bruno if there’s a quality manager who’s an improvement ready to come in. If Lopetegui/AVB were happy to say yes today then I’d be sending Bruno on his bike. Zero point ditching him though if we don’t have a serious replacement lined up.

Mmm interesting.
I guess people might say “nobody could do any worse”

But the spin on that is that unfortunately “nobody” could do better……literally.

Things are so bad that no Manager at all is likely to yield results at least as good as the last 18 games, just on the law of averages

 

[superwolves]

When then?

You'll know when you see it when the team have no more to give

 

[Eastern Wolf]

The 1st half against spurs was actually some of the best football we've seen if we can reproduce that then we're onto something

I love to see pretty football too but not if it means we lose matches. There is no better high than to get 3 points - a good performance is just an added bonus.

 

[Mugwump]

His record over a long stretch of games just hasnt been good enough. There is just no getting away from it no matter what his apologists are saying. The same issues we had playing with 3 at the back are still there with 4 at the back. All these calls for 4 at the back from some people and the systemt hasnt made a blind bit of difference. Still turgid, boring, uninspiring football. Still barely any shots on target, still barely any goals. IIRC, Bruno has had 45 games in charge in the premier league, we have scored something like 41 goals. Thats pathetic.

 

[superwolves]

I love to see pretty football too but not if it means we lose matches. There is no better high than to get 3 points - a good performance is just an added bonus.

I think this is why we have to make sure we're keeping clean sheets if we start conceding there's not enough goalscorers in the team to get the 3 points

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Micah Richards summed up what's wrong in his 2 minute analysis on MoTD. They put up three or four stills of Wolves attacks that broke down in the final third, and in every case it was players choosing not to make a pass that would potentially have played in a team-mate (i.e. choosing not to make a potentially goal-creating pass that was a risk) in favour of a 'safe' pass side-ways or tracking back and recycling. By the same token, nobody was making runs into gaps to receive such passes. Two sides of the same coin. THAT repeated pattern of play is down to how they are coached = "keep the ball at all costs". The crowd round me were going ballistic, it was so obvious to everyone that the players were all scared to try and make that killer pass. That's one of the main reasons we don't score goals -- we don't take risks.

 

[Fifty Niner]

Simply not good enough and do you see it improving against West Ham, Chelsea and Forest??

If we were regularly creating chances aplenty I’d agree with Bruno, the goals will come. Maybe Costa will help unlock the floodgates but if we continue with our same style then no.

 

[Fifty Niner]

Micah Richards summed up what's wrong in his 2 minute analysis on MoTD. They put up three or four stills of Wolves attacks that broke down in the final third, and in every case it was players choosing not to make a pass that would potentially have played in a team-mate (i.e. choosing not to make a potentially goal-creating pass that was a risk) in favour of a 'safe' pass side-ways or tracking back and recycling. By the same token, nobody was making runs into gaps to receive such passes. Two sides of the same coin. THAT repeated pattern of play is down to how they are coached = "keep the ball at all costs". The crowd round me were going ballistic, it was so obvious to everyone that the players were all scared to try and make that killer pass. That's one of the main reasons we don't score goals -- we don't take risks.

It was this way under Nuno’s last season in particular so it’s frustrating it has continued under Bruno, who was brought in to make us more attacking.

 

[superwolves]

Micah Richards summed up what's wrong in his 2 minute analysis on MoTD. They put up three or four stills of Wolves attacks that broke down in the final third, and in every case it was players choosing not to make a pass that would potentially have played in a team-mate (i.e. choosing not to make a potentially goal-creating pass that was a risk) in favour of a 'safe' pass side-ways or tracking back and recycling. THAT repeated pattern of play is down to how they are coached = "keep the ball at all costs". The crowd round me were going ballistic, it was so obvious to everyone that the players were all scared to try and make that killer pass. That's one of the main reasons we don't score goals -- we don't take risks.

I think it's been drilled into them all the way back to the seville defeat that we have to get better possession to be successful in the Premier. Like you say sometimes you've got to be prepared to take the risk rather than the safe option

 

[Fifty Niner]

I think this is why we have to make sure we're keeping clean sheets if we start conceding there's not enough goalscorers in the team to get the 3 points

We saw that last season when the team started conceding and we ended up from a potential 4th down to mid table.

 

[Ogerp]

Ha! Takes over slowly
But doesn't last very long
Ha ha ha ha no need to worry
Everything's under control
O U T! But no hard feelings
What do you know? Take you away
We're being taken for a ride again

 

[Bill McCai]

Our team does not have a clear identity - as soon as we concede there is literally no chance we will come back (I think when conceding we have come back to win once or twice in 45 games - we used to have the belief/ability to change the game - our in game management now is a load of coaches waving Ipads around and Bruno going mad at everybody).

There are some who want to give him time, to see what happens when Costa is fit. Fair enough. My view is we should get a manager in who can get these players performing. I think we have a big enough sample size to say it is going south under Lage - I cannot imagine he knows how to turn this around (and looking at how he got the chop at Benfica, his only job to date - it would seem what is happening here is not new). Any manager worth his salt should not have this squad hovering at around 17th. Lage has removed the belief the fans (and players) had about getting results IMO. Going to the games has become a chore, when it used to be something to look forward to.

 

[Ponty]

You forgot jeff

I think he assumed you are Jeff!

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

Micah Richards summed up what's wrong in his 2 minute analysis on MoTD. They put up three or four stills of Wolves attacks that broke down in the final third, and in every case it was players choosing not to make a pass that would potentially have played in a team-mate (i.e. choosing not to make a potentially goal-creating pass that was a risk) in favour of a 'safe' pass side-ways or tracking back and recycling. By the same token, nobody was making runs into gaps to receive such passes. Two sides of the same coin. THAT repeated pattern of play is down to how they are coached = "keep the ball at all costs". The crowd round me were going ballistic, it was so obvious to everyone that the players were all scared to try and make that killer pass. That's one of the main reasons we don't score goals -- we don't take risks.

Ait Nouri not releasing Guedes was a classic. Ironically the riskiest pass of the game was Sa in the 2nd half. In fact we play far more risky passes around our own box than we ever do around the oppositions.

 

[superwolves]

We saw that last season when the team started conceding and we ended up from a potential 4th down to mid table.

I'm sure Bruno would love to play gung ho score more than the opposition football he actually did the first 3 games he was here and we got no points

 

[Big Saft Kid]

I think this is why we have to make sure we're keeping clean sheets if we start conceding there's not enough goalscorers in the team to get the 3 points

But it doesn't matter how many 'goal-scorers' you have in the team if the team is not set up to create goal-scoring opportunities. Creating chances is the key. Create lots and you will score goals. At the moment we don't create anything and are limited to pieces of one -off brilliance like Neves's strike against Newcastle.

 

[Stourwolf]

Our team does not have a clear identity - as soon as we concede there is literally no chance we will come back (I think when conceding we have come back to win once or twice in 45 games - we used to have the belief/ability to change the game - our in game management now is a load of coaches waving Ipads around and Bruno going mad at everybody).

There are some who want to give him time, to see what happens when Costa is fit. Fair enough. My view is we should get a manager in who can get these players performing. I think we have a big enough sample size to say it is going south under Lage - I cannot imagine he knows how to turn this around (and looking at how he got the chop at Benfica, his only job to date - it would seem what is happening here is not new). Any manager worth his salt should not have this squad hovering at around 17th. Lage has removed the belief the fans (and players) had about getting results IMO. Going to the games has become a chore, when it used to be something to look forward to.

100% agree. Lage has had plenty of time now, the results are pathetic.team selections and subs are baffling.semedo not playing / neto on the right / podence up front…..it’s all a mess with him in charge.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Ait Nouri not releasing Guedes was a classic. Ironically the riskiest pass of the game was Sa in the 2nd half. In fact we play far more risky passes around our own box than we ever do around the oppositions.

Too bloody true. How many heart attacks are we going to cause this season? This playing out from the back is great if you have players like Man City or Barca who are extremely composed on the ball. For most teams it is a goal against waiting to happen, But these 'elite' PL managers are all like lemmings -- if Pep or Klopp do it, it must be right so they just blindly copy. Madness.

 

[superwolves]

I think he assumed you are Jeff!

I don't usually say alot on here I only reacted as people started ganging up on the manager which was unjustified from man city. I was just pointing out some balanced views

 

[Sneazy]

There are two sides,obviously, to every decision…

Positive slant…

Last season he didn’t have a full pre-season (from what I recall) with the players to in-still his thoughts and ideas.
After 3 games where we played great football but had gained 0 points he switched to a ‘safer’ Nuno style to match the players he felt he had.
We went on a good run of form with a tight defensive unit that got us into the top 6 and pushing.
For the final third of the season (?) we then started to lose important players to injury/suspension and our form/confidence dipped and we limped over the line, grateful of the earlier points.

The start of this season he wanted to change formation/style and reverted to a back 4. Many fans were in agreement.
He offloaded a number of players that many on here and elsewhere thought had given us great service but it was time to move on.
We bought in some quality players that we were really happy with and we were excited to see.
He reverted the team successfully to a back 4 with a very good defensive 2 in Kilman and Collins. Our defence has played well.
New players did not arrive early enough to really bed into the system until we were playing Premier League games and so ended up ‘learning on the job’ as it were for Bruno’s approach and tactics within games.
We have had no out and out striker or as LAGE puts it a ‘reference’ in the box to help (hopefully) finish off some good approach play.
New striker is injured after 45 mins.
Seconds away from 3 points against Newcastle that would ease pressure on the team and have us closer to mid-table…fine margins.
Wolves/LAGE act quickly (to some fans pleasant surprise) and get in possibly the best free agent option we can get albeit with the fitness issue to resolve. Genuinely exciting signing if he can show his fitness.
We play, what 4 games, with his players in the team - albeit no striker - and gain 2 draws and a win. All results were close games.
We lose to a top side playing a large part of the game with 10 men. You can argue City took their foot of the gas but Wolves were positive and didn’t sit back and try and just keep them out.

The other side of the coin…

Last season we reverted more to a Nuno style of play as Lage obviously felt we didn’t have the players he wanted to change the system. Not in itself bad, but not the more attacking style of play he was bought in for.
After that first part of the season it was fairly turgid stuff to watch and we scored very few goals.
A common issue for me (and seemingly many others) is that - even when everybody considers his starting line up to be good, his substitutions are at the wrong time, baffling choices and tend to make no difference or weaken our involvement in the games. There are many games where fans have a good consensus on what changes need to happen but are perplexed by his changing of the wrong players.

With inverted forwards I am sick to death of watching our wide players either play themselves into trouble, or more frequently run towards the by-line only to stop turn back, slow the game down and either try and take their player on again or pass backwards. It’s infuriating and one big reason we don’t score goals.
Lage has overseen the same issues for a good deal of time now and has seemingly changed very little. That is fairly worrying.
Although defensively he has achieved a lot, what we bought him here for, more attacking play - has delivered 3 games last season where I was over the moon with how we played but nothing of real note since. We have flashes of great play but I think even the players don’t think we can score now!
I am seeing signs of players not appearing to be putting 10/10ths to get back to challenge, for example leaving wide players with free crosses etc. Are the players confused? Starting to lose faith/not play for Lage? Not fit enough? Lost enthusiasm? Either way it’s not good and falls to Lage to sort out.
Baffling after match quotes. I always feel that when a manager talks about a game and see’s things that the fans don’t…it’s the slippery slope to losing your job.

I could go on. It’s a pint half empty pint half full question or point of view. Do the negatives outweighs the positives/reasons?

Personally I think I would see how the next 3 or so games go, but if a manager was available now that they really wanted….

 

[Perton Wolf]

Sums Bruno ball up to be honest.

 

[superwolves]

Ait Nouri not releasing Guedes was a classic. Ironically the riskiest pass of the game was Sa in the 2nd half. In fact we play far more risky passes around our own box than we ever do around the oppositions.

This is modern football now gone are the days when you see goal kicks from the keeper aiming for the centre forward with the back 4 pushed up to the halfway line it's all about making sure they keep possession as there priority. The supporters want to see the action taking place in the box but teams get hit on counter attacks or have to chase round for 5 minutes trying to get the ball

 

[OsloWolf]

Come on, Jeff. Let the axe fall!

I see there are still a couple of posters backing Bruno, which is both confusing and (in a way) impressive. Surely you must have seen something where I have seen nothing at all.

4 Wolves goals scored at Molineux since April. Man City has 8 at Molineux within the same timeframe. Bournemouth are free flowing compared to us and we have had a really "easy" fixture list to start the season.

What are the signs some people are seeing? Is it all suddenly going to click? Do you really believe that?

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Sums Bruno ball up to be honest.View attachment 30340

Terrible, shameful stats. I'd like to see a journo shove that table under Lage's nose and ask him to comment

 

[Wolf in Kenilworth]

Sums Bruno ball up to be honest.View attachment 30340

You can’t shoot if you’re nowhere near the box because:

- we dont cross
- we never pay a central through ball
- Moutinho takes powder puff free kicks that others should be over.

 

[clivewolves]

We do have an identity. It's just a crap one.

 

[superwolves]

But it doesn't matter how many 'goal-scorers' you have in the team if the team is not set up to create goal-scoring opportunities. Creating chances is the key. Create lots and you will score goals. At the moment we don't create anything and are limited to pieces of one -off brilliance like Neves's strike against Newcastle.

He's tried to go back 4 to get an extra forward on. He pushed Neves into the back 4 Saturday to keep am extra forward on with 10 men. Chances created are always slim in the Premier unless your one of the top teams you have to be clinical when you get one. Our players score once every 7 games you need strikers getting the chance who score 1 in 3

 

[Eastern Wolf]

I'm sure Bruno would love to play gung ho score more than the opposition football he actually did the first 3 games he was here and we got no points

To play gung-ho football, you need to attack as a team and be super-fit. We did see it for a few games at the start of his tenure but since then we have regressed and dont attack as a team and are not particularly fit. Maybe we should get Bielsa in as a consultant.

 

[OsloWolf]

Terrible, shameful stats. I'd like to see a journo shove that table under Lage's nose and ask him to comment

He would probably repeat his line from the post game interview on Saturday:
There are not many teams in the world who can do what we did with 10 men against Manchester City.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

This is modern football now gone are the days when you see goal kicks from the keeper aiming for the centre forward with the back 4 pushed up to the halfway line it's all about making sure they keep possession as there priority. The supporters want to see the action taking place in the box but teams get hit on counter attacks or have to chase round for 5 minutes trying to get the ball

That's the theory. In practice it isn't like that, at least at Wolves it isn't. As often as not, when we play out from the back, we lose the ball about 25 yards or less from our own goal. We just can't retain the ball for any length of time under pressure, at least not consistently. Hoofing it upfield is at least as efficient in terms of possession, and it takes the ball away from the danger area. The bottom line is that you can do both in the right circumstances. But this tendency to play out from the back even when the receiving players are under pressure is just stupid. Do it if you can, but if you can't, hoof it.

 

[superwolves]

To play gung-ho football, you need to attack as a team and be super-fit. We did se it for a few game at the start but since then we have regressed and dont attack as a team and are not particularly fit. Maybe we should get Bielsa in as a consultant.

Depends if we fancy playing Middlesbrough next season on a Tuesday night

 

[Fenrir_]

Micah Richards summed up what's wrong in his 2 minute analysis on MoTD. They put up three or four stills of Wolves attacks that broke down in the final third, and in every case it was players choosing not to make a pass that would potentially have played in a team-mate (i.e. choosing not to make a potentially goal-creating pass that was a risk) in favour of a 'safe' pass side-ways or tracking back and recycling. By the same token, nobody was making runs into gaps to receive such passes. Two sides of the same coin. THAT repeated pattern of play is down to how they are coached = "keep the ball at all costs". The crowd round me were going ballistic, it was so obvious to everyone that the players were all scared to try and make that killer pass. That's one of the main reasons we don't score goals -- we don't take risks.

And it's been going on for ages, posted this last December

Doesn't matter who we sign, until we start attacking as a team and taking the odd risk that 'goals for' column isn't going to look pretty

As you say, it comes from the coach. It can't come from anywhere else

 

[superwolves]

That's the theory. In practice it isn't like that, at least at Wolves it isn't. As often as not, when we play out from the back, we lose the ball about 25 yards or less from our own goal. We just can't retain the ball for any length of time under pressure, at least not consistently. Hoofing it upfield is at least as efficient in terms of possession, and it takes the ball away from the danger area. The bottom line is that you can do both in the right circumstances. But this tendency to play out from the back even when the receiving players are under pressure is just stupid. Do it if you can, but if you can't, hoof it.

Our possession has improved alot this season we used to just give up possession and sit in two banks behind the ball letting the opposition have it and try and break fast on them if we got it

 

[Big Saft Kid]

He's tried to go back 4 to get an extra forward off. He pushed Neves into the back 4 Saturday to keep am extra forward on with 10 men. Chances created are always slim in the Premier unless your one of the top teams you have to be clinical when you get one. Our players score once every 7 games you need strikers getting the chance who score 1 in 3

I have to admire the lengths you go to to defend the indefensible. He is just a crap coach. That's the elephant in the room that you can't or won't see.

 

[kennyB]

If Fosun don't get rid of him soon it will be too late anyway.

 

[Wolf316]

Ait Nouri not releasing Guedes was a classic. Ironically the riskiest pass of the game was Sa in the 2nd half. In fact we play far more risky passes around our own box than we ever do around the oppositions.

That is a bloody good point!

 

[Fenrir_]

Sums Bruno ball up to be honest.View attachment 30340

Let's hope his supporters who will claim that that's enough to keep us up notice that little asterisk

 

[superwolves]

And it's been going on for ages, posted this last December



As you say, it comes from the coach. It can't come from anywhere else

Would a new coach be able to change that without putting the defence at more risk with the same players

 

[Highlandwolf2]

Totally out of his depth. Give him his pay off. Woeful.