Lage OUT

[superwolves]

But I accept like you say that another 3 games is understandable, even if I don't think it'll change.

No excuses after 10 games, two of which are against teams in trouble.

All we can ask is that anyone gets a fair chance can keep changing managers every year but unless they have the players to do the job then it won't make alot of difference whoever is in charge to a degree

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I think Nuno would come back but not sure the relationship with Jeff and co ended well. At least he played to our strengths, counter attacking football

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

I think Nuno would come back but not sure the relationship with Jeff and co ended well. At least he played to our strengths, counter attacking football

Only until we lost Jota and Doherty then he couldn’t even do that.

 

[Perton Wolf]

Bruno isn't the man but neither is Nuno. He's had his time here, time to move on.

 

[Fenrir_]

Some did want Nuno gone, but a very few, as you say. And they would have had no influence over the club. The club don't do what the fans want. They may listen, but the owners are in charge and do exactly what they want and care little for supporters. Their care is in taking the money off us and that is it. It's naive to think Nuno or virtually any other manager gets sacked/appointed/whatever because fans demand it.

I kept demanding Andre Silva and did they listen?

Though in hindsight, I do think much of the malaise that has hung over the club started during that time when Nuno lost his way. Bruno isn't a strong enough character to shake it off.

Probably me sinking into a malaise too, after the past few months of dreary football. But was thinking that it's almost like the default state for the club. All this "when we sign a player he's either rubbish or gets injured on his debut". "If we didn't have bad luck, we'd have no luck at all". Kind of feels like this is most of the last few decades, only lifted by Nuno who blew it away for a couple of seasons, before it dragged him down too. We need a shaman to lift the curse, not a sporting director!

Shi made a comment about the influence of social media across the globe after we sacked Nuno. Can't remember exactly what it was but think he was alluding to the fact a lot of social media about Wolves at that time was negative towards Nuno, and obviously we couldn't have crowds at the games to give a different angle to it so all the stories coming out about Wolves and Nuno were negative. It isn't a good look on a global platform

Think the only time where us as fans have had a serious effect on a manager was when we were close to appointing Steve Bruce. There have been other instances, Everton fans kicking off last season about a Portuguese taking over (and ending up with Lampard), and Man U fans managed to get the club to end their interest in Marco Arnautovic this summer

If there is any influence though from social media and the like, Lage has to be on borrowed time. This board has never been so strongly against a manager in the years I've been on it (ignore the official join date )- with the possible exception of Saunders

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Understandably there’s a lot being said about the lack of goals, which is a real concern, but its another distraction to the argument of whether Lage should be replaced. There’s lots of other issues which suggests he’s out of his depth….

Not recognising and playing to players strengths - look at how Nuno leveraged the cards he was dealt with. Players like Cody, Docherty thrived in a Nuno side because he played them in the best way he could and built a team that was greater than the sum of its parts. Lage is doing the opposite. Neto on the right, Podence as a false nine, Hwang out wide (a player he asked for remember). After over a year I’d have expected a good manager to know how to get the best out of the players they have.

Complete inability to think ‘on the fly’ and being out thought on match days. If things don’t go his way there’s no Plan B.

Almost incomprehensible use of substitutes which again shows he doesn’t know where best to play the squad he’s got.

Players looking unfit in what everyone knows is the most intense and physical league in the world. That’s 100% on him.

First 3 games last season aside no signs whatsoever that there is any plan of transition to a different mindset of play.

A long list of excuses asking for more time. He’s had over 50 matches now to establish a team identity. Anyone know what it is because I certainly don’t.

None of this is knee jerk reactions to one loss against Man City, but from what I’ve witnessed over the course of over a season of dull, boring uninspiring (and now losing) football.

Very well said. Agree with every word.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Never had a job you wanted to leave and work elsewhere?

Been many decades since I was an employee but I never walked out.
However, coaching PSG for millions a year is hardly a ‘regular’ job, now is it?

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

Bruno isn't the man but neither is Nuno. He's had his time here, time to move on.

I can’t believe so many fans are even suggesting it.

Just goes to show how many fans never let go and have been waiting for this moment

 

[inaglasshouse]

Re strikers I'm beginning to wonder if he shouldn't try Guedes and Hwang up top in a 4-4-2 as they appear to be our only fit options

not a bad shout - though it depresses me when I see Hwang in a wolves shirt but thats probably a bit mean, as you say, he may well be the only fit alternative

 

[MattH]

not a bad shout - though it depresses me when I see Hwang in a wolves shirt but thats probably a bit mean, as you say, he may well be the only fit alternative

I think Hwang would be fine in a front two, playing more centrally. Would also mean Neto could play left wing which he seems more suited to.

 

[steve vena]

Very well said. Agree with every word.

Me too.

 

[Ogerp]

Bruno has got both hands on the tiller, unfortunately the rudders fell off.

 

[The Wolf In The North]

Lage has been in charge for 45 league games.

We've failed to score in 20 of those games. We've scored more than once in 12 games. We've scored more than twice in just 3 games.

We've only come from behind to win once and draw twice.

We've won 1 league game in 14, and 4 in 21.

I'm not sure which of those statistics is most damning, but when you take them all together you have to feel he's bloody lucky to even still be here.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

I think Nuno would come back but not sure the relationship with Jeff and co ended well. At least he played to our strengths, counter attacking football

This thread is getting slightly derailed but who replaces Lage (Nuno?) I suppose is a relevant discussion? Nuno's best years were blessed with no injuries, great attacking FBs, 2 flying wide men and Jimenez in all his pomp. Not defending Lage in any way but he has been dogged with incredibly bad luck with injuries esp with his strikers, which most managers would have struggled with. Having said that he has made so many mistakes, and continues to do so you start to think his time ain't long.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

The main reason Fosun sacked Nuno was because they wanted us to be more attacking.

Not only has Bruno failed to achieve that, he’s taken us backwards to a point where we no longer look a counter attacking threat to the bigger teams.

The change in formation shows no signs of making us more attacking. We’ve not got a proper striker, but even so we’re still not creating any chances.

It’s just sideways passing down the wings, all played in front of the opposition and easy to defend against.

**** poor tactics from a manager out of his depth.

I know it’s abit OT, and I don’t want to totally derail this thread, it why the **** did we get rid of Nuno. Absolute lunacy.

Before anyone says get him back, we can’t, the damage is done and the ships sailed.

He was literally perfect for us though, perfect.

We were so much worse under Nuno in the final season

 

[groundhogwolf]

Lage has been in charge for 45 league games.

We've failed to score in 20 of those games. We've scored more than once in 12 games. We've scored more than twice in just 3 games.

We've only come from behind to win once and draw twice.

We've won 1 league game in 14, and 4 in 21.

I'm not sure which of those statistics is most damning, but when you take them all together you have to feel he's bloody lucky to even still be here.

wow

 

[Fenrir_]

We were so much worse under Nuno in the final season

Statistically we were actually worse last season than in Nuno's final year

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Statistically we were actually worse last season than in Nuno's final year

In what respect?

Table position?

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I know it’s abit OT, and I don’t want to totally derail this thread, it why the **** did we get rid of Nuno. Absolute lunacy.

Before anyone says get him back, we can’t, the damage is done and the ships sailed.

He was literally perfect for us though, perfect.

Because in the last season, the football wasn't good enough and 12th isn't good enough for owners that have the ambitions we do.
I don't think Bruno was a terrible appointment, but we are getting worse at an alarming rate, and we are a premier league club, with the likes of Neves and Nunes on the books.
We can't attract any manager in the world; but as a premier league club we can certainly attract some top managers.

The owners expect top half and entertaining football as a minimum. Maybe we should start expecting that too?

 

[Fenrir_]

In what respect?

Table position?

Performance stats. We fluked 10th, should have been closer to 17th

 

[inaglasshouse]

This thread is getting slightly derailed but who replaces Lage (Nuno?) I suppose is a relevant discussion? Nuno's best years were blessed with no injuries, great attacking FBs, 2 flying wide men and Jimenez in all his pomp. Not defending Lage in any way but he has been dogged with incredibly bad luck with injuries esp with his strikers, which most managers would have struggled with. Having said that he has made so many mistakes, and continues to do so you start to think his time ain't long.

is that why it hasn't rained goals since we (as in you and Jeff) sacked negative Nuno - bad luck

 

[Contrarian]

Understandably there’s a lot being said about the lack of goals, which is a real concern, but its another distraction to the argument of whether Lage should be replaced. There’s lots of other issues which suggests he’s out of his depth….

Not recognising and playing to players strengths - look at how Nuno leveraged the cards he was dealt with. Players like Cody, Docherty thrived in a Nuno side because he played them in the best way he could and built a team that was greater than the sum of its parts. Lage is doing the opposite. Neto on the right, Podence as a false nine, Hwang out wide (a player he asked for remember). After over a year I’d have expected a good manager to know how to get the best out of the players they have.

Complete inability to think ‘on the fly’ and being out thought on match days. If things don’t go his way there’s no Plan B.

Almost incomprehensible use of substitutes which again shows he doesn’t know where best to play the squad he’s got.

Players looking unfit in what everyone knows is the most intense and physical league in the world. That’s 100% on him.

First 3 games last season aside no signs whatsoever that there is any plan of transition to a different mindset of play.

A long list of excuses asking for more time. He’s had over 50 matches now to establish a team identity. Anyone know what it is because I certainly don’t.

None of this is knee jerk reactions to one loss against Man City, but from what I’ve witnessed over the course of over a season of dull, boring uninspiring (and now losing) football.

Yep. I defended Bruno lots, until recently. Thought he deserved a chance with all the new signings and can understand those who think he needs more time. Oddly enough, it's watching other matches that highlights the difference. Other teams filled with new signings, settling quickly, making a difference. Teams putting in 100% for the full 90 even when outplayed and. As mentioned, the teams not putting the effort are us, Leicester, West Ham. Everton seem to be turning it around, their players giving it 110% since their Liverpool game. No idea what's going on at West Ham after a couple of good seasons.

Anyway, I tend to be a very inert, stubborn person. The opposite of fickle! It's taken me a long time to give up on Bruno. But I have now. I don't think he's totally clueless, more "competent enough to manage a Championship-ish level club". Competent but totally uninspiring and I think that has been visible in the players demenour for a long long time. Watching us since around that Preston match, how we crumbled so easily against a lower level team in the second half. Was like a wake up call and I saw what plenty others had been saying for a while.

I think there's a lot of luck when recruiting managers. The right person at the right time. We struck lucky with Nuno, the stars were aligned and it was the perfect match. Similarly with McCarthy. But hardly anybody else. And eventually, they all wear out their welcome. Time to try another. TBH, Fosun have been a bit suspect in their appointments. Not sure Nuno was initially a prime choice, but struck lucky. Bruno is looking increasingly the wrong choice. It needed somebody with experience and success *at this level* - and still does.

 

[BarryM]

I agree, although the squad is unbalanced somewhat.

My point is Lage did a job first part of last season, mostly based on a solid defence. Since Arsenal away last season we have been pretty ****e with more or less lacklustre efforts.....

This is where the argument for Bruno falls down though …..

The first part of last season was someone else’s team and someone else’s tactics he was working with.

When he got his claws in properly we have sunk like the Titanic.

 

[Contrarian]

Performance stats. We fluked 10th, should have been closer to 17th

Agree, it was thanks to Sa. But watching us the season before, we fluked 13th to an extent, too. Helped by an odd season with 3 teams all performing at the level of 20th. Fulham were 18th on 28 or 29 points. Most seasons, we'd have been much closer to 17th. We were as bad to watch, too.

Covid. The Raul injury. Sevilla defeat. Even the Watford defeat. Don't know what, but something knocked the stuffing out of us and we've never got our mojo back, to coin a mixed metaphor.

 

[Mugwump]

This is where the argument for Bruno falls down though …..

The first part of last season was someone else’s team and someone else’s tactics he was working with.

When he got his claws in properly we have sunk like the Titanic.

That's an excellent point

 

[Fenrir_]

Agree, it was thanks to Sa. But watching us the season before, we fluked 13th to an extent, too. Helped by an odd season with 3 teams all performing at the level of 20th. Fulham were 18th on 28 or 29 points. Most seasons, we'd have been much closer to 17th. We were as bad to watch, too.

Covid. The Raul injury. Sevilla defeat. Even the Watford defeat. Don't know what, but something knocked the stuffing out of us and we've never got our mojo back, to coin a mixed metaphor.

Think the stats had us 14th. I'm basing it on 'expected' stats, which have only been well out for one of our four seasons in the PL prior to this one... (last season!)

20/21 (Nuno)
xG - 38.62
xGA - 52.19
xPts - 44.26 (13th)


21/22 (Lage)
xG - 39.04
xGA - 58.48
xPts - 40.54 (17th)

The 18/19 and 19/20 seasons, according to the same statistical measurements we should have done slightly better than we actually did (6th and 5th)

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

This is where the argument for Bruno falls down though …..

The first part of last season was someone else’s team and someone else’s tactics he was working with.

When he got his claws in properly we have sunk like the Titanic.

To be fair, that’s garbage

He changed the tactics completely from when he walked in and got us playing some really good stuff

He then changed styles to grind out some results once he didn’t get any signings

Now he’s got his signings , he’s been faced with challenging games - and people are immediately jumping on him

I’m not happy at how poor we look going forward and do think a better manager would have this team challenging very high in the league, but a lot of the criticism is well over the top with the cards he’s been dealt

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

This is pretty much how it ended for Bruno at Benfica a bad run of results.. After heavy investment we look worse. Which isn’t going to sit well with the ownership.

We was promised fast attacking football. I don’t think Iv seen any of that this season. It’s been hard to watch.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Lage has been in charge for 45 league games.

We've failed to score in 20 of those games. We've scored more than once in 12 games. We've scored more than twice in just 3 games.

We've only come from behind to win once and draw twice.

We've won 1 league game in 14, and 4 in 21.

I'm not sure which of those statistics is most damning, but when you take them all together you have to feel he's bloody lucky to even still be here.

Utterly atrocious statistics.

 

[WickedWolfie]

We were so much worse under Nuno in the final season

Deluded. Just as bad as the BS Lage came out with yesterday.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Deluded. Just as bad as the BS Lage came out with yesterday.

Nope. Jjst don’t have a short memory. That final season was AWFUL

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Nope. Jjst don’t have a short memory. That final season was AWFUL

In lockdown we hit the 40pts and wasn’t interested I think everyone lost hope of living a normal life again. Nuno wasn’t himself nor was the team. I don’t want to make excuses but Covid pretty much ruined us. I can see why he wanted to leave. It was a depressing time for many.

Would he come back an change our fortunes?? Maybe he would.

Pretty obvious that the new system isn’t working. Or the players clearly do not understand it. Alarm bells was ringing for me after the fulham game.

To get the best out of the current players we need an attack minded coach. Even if it is counter attacking play.

What Iv witnessed since we’ve played villa at home and won. It’s been nothing short of diabolical!! Almost 6 months ago since we actually played well?? Come on let’s be serious here we are not playing to our potential.

 

[superwolves]

This is pretty much how it ended for Bruno at Benfica a bad run of results.. After heavy investment we look worse. Which isn’t going to sit well with the ownership

Wheres the bad run of results we've won 2 drawn 2 lost 1 from the last 5 games and have the 2nd best defensive record in the league. On that basis half the managers in the league will be getting the sack

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Wheres the bad run of results we've won 2 drawn 2 lost 1 from the last 5 games and have the 2nd best defensive record in the league. On that basis half the managers in the league will be getting the sack

The new system isn’t working, we aren’t playing well. Our attacking play is awful. We don’t even look like scoring most games. Best defence and worst attack? Great combination. Something has to give here. We need to play far more attacking to get the best out of these players. The sidewards and backwards play isn’t creative

 

[sillytuna]

Wheres the bad run of results we've won 2 drawn 2 lost 1 from the last 5 games and have the 2nd best defensive record in the league. On that basis half the managers in the league will be getting the sack

We're hard to beat and strong defensively. We can hold the ball well and teams really struggle to break us down.

The problem is when you're this dull to watch and struggle to win games people will lose patience. We rarely lose by more than a goal and rarely concede more than 1. We also rarely score or eveb threaten to.

For that reason, unless things change I don't see us as relegation fodder. Problem is, I don't see us as being top ten either, and I absolutely detest the football. Entertaining it isn't.

 

[superwolves]

The new system isn’t working, we aren’t playing well. Our attacking play is awful. We don’t even look like scoring most games. Best defence and worst attack? Great combination. Something has to give here. We need to play far more attacking to get the best out of these players. The sidewards and backwards play isn’t creative

Would a new manager get these players scoring while also having the best defensive record in the league? This is clearly unknown and on there goal scoring history it would be a tough job to achieve

 

[WickedWolfie]

Wheres the bad run of results we've won 2 drawn 2 lost 1 from the last 5 games and have the 2nd best defensive record in the league. On that basis half the managers in the league will be getting the sack

Talking about the last five games when we've only actually played seven in total is an interesting approach. Look at all of our games so far and who we've played against all season though. Only Spurs and Citeh are good teams. We needed decent results out of these games because it's only going to get harder.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

Who was singing Bruno Lage’s barmy army yesterday ? Go on own up

superwolves and Bruno's dad

 

[superwolves]

We're hard to beat and strong defensively. We can hold the ball well and teams really struggle to break us down.

The problem is when you're this dull to watch and struggle to win games people will lose patience. We rarely lose by more than a goal and rarely concede more than 1. We also rarely score or eveb threaten to.

For that reason, unless things change I don't see us as relegation fodder. Problem is, I don't see us as being top ten either, and I absolutely detest the football. Entertaining it isn't.

I know it's not a great watch and maybe he can take the shackles off defensively and throw more caution to the wind. His job is foremost to get points on the board I'm sure he would love us to be free scoring maybe a fit centre forward can help when we have one available

 

[superwolves]

Talking about the last five games when we've only actually played seven in total is an interesting approach. Look at all of our games so far and who we've played against all season though. Only Spurs and Citeh are good teams. We needed decent results out of these games because it's only going to get harder.

I went for the 5 games as they were the games he's had better options in his squad with the new signings