The happy days are here again, hopefully no more repeated arguments, transfer thread

[Bill McCai]

Our average attendance last season was 30,725 (league) - plus the GH stand was not open for a while.

 

[Lobo de Ouro]

Some very fair points made,

I am owed nothing more than any other fan, nor did I say I was. I said that local fans (jeffs words) aren’t what they need to grow financially and he has said he doesn’t listen to fan opinion.

They are pricing local fans out of the ground, that cannot be denied. The literature that was shared about wolves spoke more about e-sports and not the football club. That is fact, not fiction or half truth and shows where the football club stands in their org chart of the wolves leisure brand.

The view on international fans being easier than to please and that they are far less likely to question clubs is widely known and accepted in football business it is why marketing teams identify new growth markets to do so.

It is why international fan groups get the support and attention they do from clubs and why they go on pre-season tours to those territories or multiple in some cases in a few weeks to give them their in person fix. Also the transient nature of some countries following players not teams and changing support is again well known and accepted in sports business literature. So trying to reduce the argument as cheaply as you do is tragic and you will see the Twitter numbers plummet in Mexico when Raul goes FACT!! Look at real madrids when CR7 left…… look at the boom pogba brings to social media at United, Anders herrara even commented on this after he left United….

I am sorry but it is impossible for any person not from the city born and raised, raised to be a supporter by multiple of generations of family or in the community itself.
As I said they care and are supporters of the club but they can’t have the same emotional attachment and connection to the club to say they can is disingenuous.

Didn’t say their ambition was to crumble
The club, it says they are losing sight on the people that give them the atmosphere and passion that they advertise the club with or create the moments of joy that is televised across the world!

Much more measured but still a couple of leaps being made there.

The literature shared is the very definition of a half truth. It's one page of what is presumably a much bigger document? It has, quite literally, been taken out of context.

And those weren't Jeff's words. The important distinction being he said that local fans aren't the "ONLY" important thing to grow a club, and that we have to tap in to other areas.

 

[reanswolf]

I think a lot of what me and Wolfslair are saying, whilst being understandably sensitive and difficult to explain, is being misinterpreted.

I got slaughtered previously and partly rightly so, but attending fans ( whether local or travelling) are the lifeblood in the sense that without these attending, paying people, the club is nothing. It doesn’t mean they are better fans, after all supporting Wolves and following their fortunes from Australia is undoubtedly difficult and requires immense dedication. And of course you can be as deeply affected by a defeat by someone who has travelled to a game.

But when you have paid out around £600, you are investing a lot of money and time into the club, and for people who travel distances and incur considerably more cost still, you cannot really blame them that they expect the club to listen to them primarily.

Again, that does not mean you are a better fan or bigger Wolves fan, but as a highly- contributing customer in financial terms, some level of priority should be expected.

Does that really imply an air of superiority and arrogance?

 

[Bill McCai]

On that basis we should be in thrall to those with corportate packages, given they are higher contributing customers in financial terms?

 

[Wolf 82]

I think a lot of what me and Wolfslair are saying, whilst being understandably sensitive and difficult to explain, is being misinterpreted.

I got slaughtered previously and partly rightly so, but attending fans ( whether local or travelling) are the lifeblood in the sense that without these attending, paying people, the club is nothing. It doesn’t mean they are better fans, after all supporting Wolves and following their fortunes from Australia is undoubtedly difficult and requires immense dedication. And of course you can be as deeply affected by a defeat by someone who has travelled to a game.

But when you have paid out around £600, you are investing a lot of money and time into the club, and for people who travel distances and incur considerably more cost still, you cannot really blame them that they expect the club to listen to them primarily.

Again, that does not mean you are a better fan or bigger Wolves fan, but as a highly- contributing customer in financial terms, some level of priority should be expected.

Does that really imply an air of superiority and arrogance?

True.. but as someone who was a season ticket holder for 20 years, but has also experienced supporting Wolves from thousands of miles away, I would say the reward of being there in person to share in the joys of your team, is worth the cost. So do all other fans or they wouldn't keep buying the tickets.

Watching the games at 8am on your own in our living room, or maybe down a local bar if you're lucky, isn't the same. So the experience isn't priced the same.. but we can't ignore the huge market potential of the billions of people who aren't local to Wolverhampton.

Personally.. I am proud that we are now recognised.. when i lived in LA in 2010 under the Mick era.. everyone just saw us as some relegation fodder. But now we are starting to be many peoples favourite "second team" or in some cases, first team.

It's growth at the end of the day and we shouldn't be scared of it. We're still Wolverhampton Wanderers.

 

[Flump]

Not saying that, I am saying that fosun via Jeff have communicated that local fans mean less to them than international Fans and that is a hell of a kick in the *******s to those who make difficult financial decisons about their support and life expenses during such challenging times.
When he spoke so warmly about international fans while saying he doesn’t listen to the fans and the 200k local fans can’t give them the money and revenue they want.

He didn't say local fans "mean less than international fans", he simply said international fans are more and more important.

Some people are just looking for excuses to claim they've been kicked in the *******s!

JP: Those supporters you talk about who are overseas and see different elements of the club, how important are they to you? Why do you think they are going to make a difference to the success of Wolves?

JS: They are more and more important. First, it’s like a family, you want more and more fans joining the family, and also with a bigger fanbase you have a much bigger power commercially to attract partners, sponsors, even sell more merchandise around the world, and it will help us to have a much better commercial power to compete with the top six. Otherwise, if you only leverage the maybe 200,000 fans here in Wolverhampton, I think it’s no use because you cannot compete with maybe 100 million fans for Man United, so it’s very important to have the attraction, to attract all the eyeballs around the world and make our fanbase much bigger than the local area, then we have the chance to be a global powerhouse, then it’s the starting point to be a worldwide club.

 

[Lobo de Ouro]

I think a lot of what me and Wolfslair are saying, whilst being understandably sensitive and difficult to explain, is being misinterpreted.

I got slaughtered previously and partly rightly so, but attending fans ( whether local or travelling) are the lifeblood in the sense that without these attending, paying people, the club is nothing. It doesn’t mean they are better fans, after all supporting Wolves and following their fortunes from Australia is undoubtedly difficult and requires immense dedication. And of course you can be as deeply affected by a defeat by someone who has travelled to a game.

But when you have paid out around £600, you are investing a lot of money and time into the club, and for people who travel distances and incur considerably more cost still, you cannot really blame them that they expect the club to listen to them primarily.

Again, that does not mean you are a better fan or bigger Wolves fan, but as a highly- contributing customer in financial terms, some level of priority should be expected.

Does that really imply an air of superiority and arrogance?

I know what you and Wolfslair are trying to say... I just don't agree with it.

 

[Bill McCai]

He didn't say local fans "mean less than international fans", he simply said international fans are more and more important.

Some people are just looking for excuses to claim they've been kicked in the *******s!

Yep - some have taken what he said and misunderstood it. He did not say international fans are more important than local fans.

 

[k-dog]

So, are we any closer to signing anyone?

 

[Bacon Sandwich]

I am NOT a local fan. I live the thick end of 200 miles from Molineux and if I get there once this season that'll be it.

But let me say this.

Local fans - who go to the games, who live in the city, who've supported the club all their lives, whose Dad supported the club, whose kids support the club...

They are FAR, FAR, FAR more important than I am. Than fans like Vancouver are. Than any e-Sports ****er will ever be.
If there's one ticket left for the Cup Final who should get it? Me or a local fan? A local fan, every time.

Why? Because as ex-Aussie cricket captain Mark Taylor said, the players play for the fans in the ground. The fans in the ground are what make the atmosphere when I watch on telly.

I've supported Wolves all my life, but can I really empathise with what the Bhatti brothers were doing to the club and to Wolverhampton? Not in a thousand years.

A club like Wolves isn't just a product, a team in the Premier League: it is an integral part of the community and of people's lives.

Anyone who thinks fans like me (much as I dance around the lounge when we score) or Vancouver are as important as the fans in the stadium simply doesn't understand football.

Or life...

 

[Northampton_wolf]

So, are we any closer to signing anyone?

Osorio agreed but hold ups, renan either us to or city

 

[berwickwolf]

Too ignorant to the see the truth you have created in your own head based on lies, half truths and assumptions?

Condescending nonsense imo. The club is as much VancouverWolf's as it is yours. Utterly, utterly ridiculous that you think you have more of a (and a more important) say, or that you should be treated any better or be owed anything.

Since Fosun bought us, we have a higher net spend than all but 10 clubs in the ENTIRE WORLD. We haven't sold off any of our prime assets this summer (which was inevitable according to some)... Neto new contract, Fabio new contract... all signs we are planning for the future and that the owners aren't only interested in money. We could get £100m for Neto and Neves I reckon... sell the club for £50m and walk away with a very tidy profit. So if everything you say is correct, why wouldn't they? Take the easy money and run.

But then I suppose their grand master plan to crumble Wolverhampton to dirt won't be able to be fulfilled. And all the evil fans who live overseas will obviously not care and just move on to a different team, because there's no attachment that only geographical proximity can provide.

Announce some signings already, please... so we can put an end to crap like this.

Brilliant post. Please can you find the statistic showing we are 10th? I'd like to share that with others not on molmix and I can't find the source

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Going off of data by Transfermarkt, which puts it as:

Season	Competition	Matches	sold out	Spectators	Average
21/22	Premier League	19	0	521,772	27,462
20/21	Premier League	19	0	0	0
19/20	Premier League	19	0	470,407	24,758
18/19	Premier League	19	1	589,472	31,025

Wolverhampton Wanderers - Change in attendance figures

Die Entwicklung der Besucherzahlen zeigt an, wie sich das Zuschauerinteresse für den Verein Wolves im Vergleich der Saisons entwickelt hat.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

No idea where they got that from, I think the lowest was about 29,500 maybe only below 30k twice?

It's stupidly expensive when the home form has been so poor, but the market is still there so they'll exploit it. Capitalism at it's finest

 

[reanswolf]

On that basis we should be in thrall to those with corportate packages, given they are higher contributing customers in financial terms?

No we as fans shouldn’t but I am sure the club do.

That’s the subtle difference

 

[Cornwall Wolf]

Well as season ticket holder who travels over 500 miles for home games and further for most of away games do I not count as a proper fan anymore because I left Wolvo 6 years ago ? By the way when have there been walkouts as posted never seen one under Fosun ..

 

[Mutchy]

Regardless of who thinks they are more important as a fan, or anything else along those lines, all genuine non trolling views on here are absolutely equal, and posts stand or fall on their own merits. End of this discussion now. This is the last word. Back to transfers...

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Brilliant post. Please can you find the statistic showing we are 10th? I'd like to share that with others not on molmix and I can't find the source

Brilliant post. Please can you find the statistic showing we are 10th? I'd like to share that with others not on molmix and I can't find the source

Liverpool, Man Utd, Barcelona: How much have owners invested in last 10 years?

How much have owners invested in major European clubs over the last 10 years?

www.givemesport.com

 

[Jefe]

View attachment 29083

Liverpool, Man Utd, Barcelona: How much have owners invested in last 10 years?

How much have owners invested in major European clubs over the last 10 years?

www.givemesport.com

So the original claim, "Since Fosun bought us, we have a higher net spend than all but 10 clubs in the ENTIRE WORLD" is not strictly accurate then?

This is owner funding through loans etc; it does not represent a net spend that includes player sales, or provide an overall loss / profit figure for the owners.

 

[Cornwall Wolf]

Osorio agreed but hold ups, renan either us to or city

Renan is not directly to City but offer has been made by The City Group who have a number of clubs under their banner and move players around between the clubs .. they are probably the ones who made the highest offer .. hooe not

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Renan is not directly to City but offer has been made by The City Group who have a number of clubs under their banner and move players around between the clubs .. they are probably the ones who made the highest offer .. hooe not

Thanks for correcting cornwall. Your right they are likely to have made the highest offer.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

So the original claim, "Since Fosun bought us, we have a higher net spend than all but 10 clubs in the ENTIRE WORLD" is not accurate then?

This is owner funding through loans etc, not net spend on players. It also does not provide an overall loss / profit figure for the owners.

On those figures we are 17th since 2012 -

Transfers: Man Utd top Man City, PSG, Barcelona and Arsenal for net spend over decade

Man Utd top Europe for net spend on transfers over past 10 seasons; 14 Premier League clubs rank in top 20; Current top-flight teams in England have spent six times more than Serie A, 10 times more than La Liga and 12 times more than Bundesliga; Ligue 1 clubs register surplus over decade

www.skysports.com

Cant really find 2017 figures onwards but i believe its about 180m

This is last 10 seasons.

The 50 clubs in world football with the biggest net spend since 2012| All Football

'Net transfer spend' is a phrase often thrown into arguments when the biggest-spending clubs are discussed – and the list of the 50 highest net spenders over the past decade is an extremely revealing one.

m.allfootballapp.com

 

[DanishWolf]

NO, Fosun are the owners. Temporary or not is their prerogative. They are, like God, the be all and end all. Anyone who doesn't like that is welcome to bid a few hundred million and take over.

On the other hand, Jeff Shi IS the temporary custodian.

Owners come and go. Fosun to me are custodians of this great club that was before and will remain after them

 

[Contrarian]

Brilliant post. Please can you find the statistic showing we are 10th? I'd like to share that with others not on molmix and I can't find the source

It's skewed because Fosun spent the vast majority of it in the promotion and first Premier season. Net spend for the seasons since dropped significantly and (guessing , willing to change if someone finds the figures per-season) if you take the Fabio deal off, then maybe even negative.

 

[Timberwolf]

Really worried about the state of what’s going on. This is getting painful now, to let your back up striker go with no cover then your striker to be injured for 2 months …. Other clubs have just stuck another couple of million on the asking price …. We are guaranteed to sign a has been who someone wants off the wage bill. This is the most Amateur transfer window I’ve seen from a premier league club in quite some time … we never learn! Bring on Leeds

Amateur transfer window? We’ve signed Nathan Collins ffs, not Oleg Luszny.

 

[Ponty]

Of course Fosun had to invest in the early years, we were a lower table Championship club bumbling along going nowhere. They wanted a slice of the Sky Pie and to get it they had to invest. The debate has now moved on and it is their stated intention for the club to be self-financing. Until such time as someone else comes along and wants to buy us and invest money that's as good as we can realistically hope for. The concern many of us have is that Fosun are blinded by a tenth place finish last season and currently appear to be acting as if relegation is not a possibility and therefore the value of their investment is not at risk.

Most of us have been followers of football, not just Wolves, for a long time and have seen clubs go from comfortable finishes one season to relegation the next on a regular basis. This season Fulham and Forest don't look like relegation certainties so it is quite possible a couple of teams that haven't been seriously threatened with relegation recently will be dragged into a relegation battle and it isn't unreasonable to think a team with three experienced midfielders, one of whom is 36, and just one out-and-out striker who is currently injured and even when fit was poor last season will be one of those teams. It could well be close and points between the start of the season and the closure of the window count just as much as those after so the clock is ticking. Don't delay or it could knock many millions off the value of the club and associated enterprises.

 

[Jefe]

On those figures we are 17th since 2012 -

Transfers: Man Utd top Man City, PSG, Barcelona and Arsenal for net spend over decade

Man Utd top Europe for net spend on transfers over past 10 seasons; 14 Premier League clubs rank in top 20; Current top-flight teams in England have spent six times more than Serie A, 10 times more than La Liga and 12 times more than Bundesliga; Ligue 1 clubs register surplus over decade

www.skysports.com

Cant really find 2017 figures onwards but i believe its about 180m

This is last 10 seasons.

The 50 clubs in world football with the biggest net spend since 2012| All Football

'Net transfer spend' is a phrase often thrown into arguments when the biggest-spending clubs are discussed – and the list of the 50 highest net spenders over the past decade is an extremely revealing one.

m.allfootballapp.com

Excellent, thanks. So looking at the updated figures from the Sky article, we are actually 14th on net spend in the Premier League, and 20th in the world. To wit, that's below both Brighton and Palace. Suddenly not quite as impressive a statistic, as it is more an indicator of the massive riches - and expectations, required to compete in the English league compared to mainland Europe, than it is an indicator that Fosun are this uniquely generous benefactor. For owners whose aim is to disrupt the top six, to be 'lower midtable' on net spend arguably points to a relative stinginess (mixed in of course with some onerous financial rules).

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Osorio agreed but hold ups, renan either us to or city

Who is Renan

 

[TheConcourse]

Of course Fosun had to invest in the early years, we were a lower table Championship club bumbling along going nowhere. They wanted a slice of the Sky Pie and to get it they had to invest. The debate has now moved on and it is their stated intention for the club to be self-financing. Until such time as someone else comes along and wants to buy us and invest money that's as good as we can realistically hope for. The concern many of us have is that Fosun are blinded by a tenth place finish last season and currently appear to be acting as if relegation is not a possibility and therefore the value of their investment is not at risk.

Most of us have been followers of football, not just Wolves, for a long time and have seen clubs go from comfortable finishes one season to relegation the next on a regular basis. This season Fulham and Forest don't look like relegation certainties so it is quite possible a couple of teams that haven't been seriously threatened with relegation recently will be dragged into a relegation battle and it isn't unreasonable to think a team with three experienced midfielders, one of whom is 36, and just one out-and-out striker who is currently injured and even when fit was poor last season will be one of those teams. It could well be close and points between the start of the season and the closure of the window count just as much as those after so the clock is ticking. Don't delay or it could knock many millions off the value of the club and associated enterprises.

I think Fosun are always safe in the knowledge that they have Mendes in their pocket, and so if relegation became anywhere near an issue they’d bring players through in January. Just a feeling, could be wrong.

 

[Joshwolf218]

Who is Renan

Robert Renan - Player profile 2024

Robert Renan, 20, from Brazil ➤ Sport Club Internacional, since 2023 ➤ Centre-Back ➤ Market value: €9.00m ➤ * Oct 11, 2003 in Brasília, Brazil

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

 

[Sussex Wolf]

On those figures we are 17th since 2012 -

Transfers: Man Utd top Man City, PSG, Barcelona and Arsenal for net spend over decade

Man Utd top Europe for net spend on transfers over past 10 seasons; 14 Premier League clubs rank in top 20; Current top-flight teams in England have spent six times more than Serie A, 10 times more than La Liga and 12 times more than Bundesliga; Ligue 1 clubs register surplus over decade

www.skysports.com

Cant really find 2017 figures onwards but i believe its about 180m

This is last 10 seasons.

The 50 clubs in world football with the biggest net spend since 2012| All Football

'Net transfer spend' is a phrase often thrown into arguments when the biggest-spending clubs are discussed – and the list of the 50 highest net spenders over the past decade is an extremely revealing one.

m.allfootballapp.com

Perhaps more interesting in the Sky Sports list is how few PL clubs have spent less than us, and even fewer who are still in the PL by the end of last season. Southampton being the only remaining PL club below us.

 

[Jefe]

Perhaps more interesting in the Sky Sports list is how few PL clubs have spent less than us, and even fewer who are still in the PL by the end of last season. Southampton being the only remaining PL club below us.

Yep. Out of the 16 clubs in that top 100 who are still in the Premier League, only Leeds and Southampton's net spend is lower than Wolves. There are three others below that, Burnley, Watford and Norwich, who of course are now relegated. That said, the figure is from the past decade, three years of which Fosun weren't around, and is therefore not as instructive as a figure from the past half decade.

 

[Lobo de Ouro]

Excellent, thanks. So looking at the updated figures from the Sky article, we are actually 14th on net spend in the Premier League, and 20th in the world. To wit, that's below both Brighton and Palace. Suddenly not quite as impressive a statistic, as it is more an indicator of the massive riches - and expectations, required to compete in the English league compared to mainland Europe, than it is an indicator that Fosun are this uniquely generous benefactor. For owners whose aim is to disrupt the top six, to be 'lower midtable' on net spend arguably points to a relative stinginess (mixed in of course with some onerous financial rules).

But that period covers 5 years under old ownership... and 5 years not in the Premier League. Our average net spend over the last 5 years has been virtually identical to Juventus and AC Milan over the last 10 years.

Anyway, to link it back to transfers... however you look at the numbers, it shows owners who have been willing to spend when needed. We currently have zero fit (and/or viable) forward options. Yet a lot of people seem to have decided they won't address that.

After everything I've said.... IF we don't bring anyone in, I'll be as critical as anyone else. But I am very confident we will.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

one name i have seen mused on the midfield front is curtis jones from liverpool

In terms of striking options one id jump in on is liam delap

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

No idea where they got that from, I think the lowest was about 29,500 maybe only below 30k twice?

It's stupidly expensive when the home form has been so poor, but the market is still there so they'll exploit it. Capitalism at it's finest

the club has said all tickets for Wolves fans home and away have sold out since getting back into the prem.
where the crowd has dropped has been because of visitors not taking their full allocation.
However I do recall the temp. stand not being full once

 

[Jefe]

But that period covers 5 years under old ownership... and 5 years not in the Premier League. Our average net spend over the last 5 years has been virtually identical to Juventus and AC Milan over the last 10 years.

Anyway, to link it back to transfers... however you look at the numbers, it shows owners who have been willing to spend when needed. We currently have zero fit (and/or viable) forward options. Yet a lot of people seem to have decided they won't address that.

After everything I've said.... IF we don't bring anyone in, I'll be as critical as anyone else. But I am very confident we will.

Yes, you're right. Steve's stewardship is bound to drag that figure down. It'd be nice to have a net spend database that we can tweak to our heart's content.

 

[Premier Quality]

one name i have seen mused on the midfield front is curtis jones from liverpool

In terms of striking options one id jump in on is liam delap

Curtis Jones is a Good player, sign him up!

I’d love delap too.

 

[Lobo de Ouro]

Yes, you're right. Steve's stewardship is bound to drag that figure down. It'd be nice to have a net spend database that we can tweak to our heart's content.

Just goes to show numbers can be made to tell whatever story you want them to tell, mate....

One thing that can't be misinterpreted is a quality striker holding up a Wolves shirt. Let's have that.

 

[The Wolf Of Wombourne]

I’ve been on the waiting list and still am 5781 on the list
My colleague went on the waiting list last year and his place was 12 thousand something

Don't think the list moves though, so you are probably a lot lower than that but just have the same number you started with unless I've got that completely wrong.

 

[Ponty]

I think Fosun are always safe in the knowledge that they have Mendes in their pocket, and so if relegation became anywhere near an issue they’d bring players through in January. Just a feeling, could be wrong.

Not easy to halt a sinking ship so a high risk policy.

 

[SuperGran]

Don't think the list moves though, so you are probably a lot lower than that but just have the same number you started with unless I've got that completely wrong.

You do move I has an update at the start of last season I’ve moved 5000 places over 3 years
The original number I had was 10270