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The happy days are here again, hopefully no more repeated arguments, transfer thread

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reanswolf

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VancouverWolf said:
Sometimes when I read through the posts, I read what appears to be a lot of fiction and then others, ( or the poster themselves), believe and accept that fiction to be non fiction.
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Well to be fair, how do you know Wolves are trying to get players then?

Genuine question, seeing you dismiss so many posts because they are merely opinion?
 
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manchesterwolf17 said:
Wily Boly - 2017
Moutinho/Dendoncker - 2018

The last time a genuine first team CB or CM was signed.

Sorry, it's just ****ing ridiculous now.
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The club may say that those signings were so good they took us to 7th twice. It gets exponentially harder and more expensive to improve from there. Though also, we've since finished 10th and 13th so really do need something new now.

Basically, I don't think it so ridiculous we didn't sign first team CB or CM from 2018 to last summer. But agree that from last summer, with only 3 midfielders, there's a problem that needs fixing - and even more so now. CH was also fine - don't forget for first half of last season we had among the best performing CH in Europe. It's all gone a bit pear shaped since then, though and again, has now become a critical issue.

In contrast, we keep signing/loaning strikers. But they all fail, so striker has also become a critical position to strengthen.
 
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Contrarian said:
The club may say that those signings were so good they took us to 7th twice. It gets exponentially harder and more expensive to improve from there. Though also, we've since finished 10th and 13th so really do need something new now.

Basically, I don't think it so ridiculous we didn't sign first team CB or CM from 2018 to last summer. But agree that from last summer, with only 3 midfielders, there's a problem that needs fixing - and even more so now. CH was also fine - don't forget for first half of last season we had among the best performing CH in Europe. It's all gone a bit pear shaped since then, though and again, has now become a critical issue.

In contrast, we keep signing/loaning strikers. But they all fail, so striker has also become a critical position to strengthen.
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Plenty I agree with there. But the reason we're so insanely boring is because we have to massively compensate for not having any CB's who as individuals are anything other than lower PL/Championship level.

The attacking talent we have in this squad compared to the dross we display most weeks is staggering. And all of this stems from never signing a proper CB. The midfield annoys me as well. Not signing at least another CM last season was the most inevitable backfire possible. And we massively lack legs and progression there, but Neves/Moutinho are class acts. The problem is they have to effectively make themselves redundant on an attacking front, again to protect the limitations we have at the back.
 
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manchesterwolf17 said:
Plenty I agree with there. But the reason we're so insanely boring is because we have to massively compensate for not having any CB's who as individuals are anything other than lower PL/Championship level.

The attacking talent we have in this squad compared to the dross we display most weeks is staggering. And all of this stems from never signing a proper CB. The midfield annoys me as well, but Neves/Moutinho are class acts. The problem is they have to effectively make themselves redundant on an attacking front, again to protect the limitations we have at the back.
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While never being at City or Liverpool, we scored a fair few more with much the same CB 3 and CM, in the first 2 seasons. If anything, Kilman is a much better player than Bennett (or Donk) who took the role then. It's not just the CH. It's losing Jota as an individual and his partnership with Raul. Also Doc, of course, who under Conte was doing the same for Spurs as he was for us, chipping in with vital goals and assists. Raul's injury too. That's our 3 main goal scoring and creation sources gone, basically. We have some good individuals, but no partnerships, none of them work together like the team did back then.

Attacking talent? Not many other clubs desperate to sign any of it, are there? It's not just about numbers in attack if those players aren't good enough. Neto is obviously a star in the making. Raul was a top international player until that Arsenal thug injured him. The rest are too lightweight and inconsistent and none of them are goal scorers.

It's not the we don't need a better CH and more dynamic midfielder - we do. But those alone won't fix anything, perhaps just repeats of the first 3 matches last season and if not that, then scoring a little more, but conceding a little more and ending up back at square one.
 
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Contrarian said:
While never being at City or Liverpool, we scored a fair few more with much the same CB 3 and CM, in the first 2 seasons. If anything, Kilman is a much better player than Bennett (or Donk) who took the role then. It's not just the CH. It's losing Jota as an individual and his partnership with Raul. Also Doc, of course, who under Conte was doing the same for Spurs as he was for us, chipping in with vital goals and assists. Raul's injury too. That's our 3 main goal scoring and creation sources gone, basically. We have some good individuals, but no partnerships, none of them work together like the team did back then.

Attacking talent? Not many other clubs desperate to sign any of it, are there? It's not just about numbers in attack if those players aren't good enough. Neto is obviously a star in the making. Raul was a top international player until that Arsenal thug injured him. The rest are too lightweight and inconsistent and none of them are goal scorers.

It's not the we don't need a better CH and more dynamic midfielder - we do. But those alone won't fix anything, perhaps just repeats of the first 3 matches last season and if not that, then scoring a little more, but conceding a little more and ending up back at square one.
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Good post mate.
 
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Do we get 1m from that deal then? Can't remember the %.
Think Trincao could start to come into his own in Portuguese league after a very slow start with us. Would I regret not spending 20m on him, not really.
 
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WalsallWolf said:
Before I get ****ed off over something I do not fully understand - what does "economic rights" actually mean?
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I think people on here misunderstand it but I can’t be sure so happy to be proven wrong and can’t see the reports fully at the moment.

However, my understanding is it’s he’s going to Sporting CP & Barcelona have a 50% sell-on on his next move.

Either way, the reason it’s happening now is so Barcelona have to give us less money. It’s clever from them and done us out of a few million.
 
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Teams in europe can buy a % of a player whereas uk clubs can't.
We have sell on clauses.
 
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WalsallWolf said:
Before I get ****ed off over something I do not fully understand - what does "economic rights" actually mean?
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The right of a club to sell a player in the future for revenue arising from the transfer of a player's registration rights.

Basically means he’s going for €20m but instead of giving us 20% of that, we’ll only get 20% of €10m.

I think, anyway!
 
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WeAreTheWolvesII said:
I think people on here misunderstand it but I can’t be sure so happy to be proven wrong and can’t see the reports fully at the moment.

However, my understanding is it’s he’s going to Sporting CP & Barcelona have a 50% sell-on on his next move.

Either way, the reason it’s happening now is so Barcelona have to give us less money. It’s clever from them and done us out of a few million.
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Explained it better than me.

So they’re effectively valuing him at €20m now but if they sold him for that, they’d have to give us €4m as the 20% of his ‘next move’.

By selling him for €10m and retaining 50% of his economic rights, they only have to give us €2m.

Say in 2 years time, Sporting sell him for €30m, Barca will also get half that fee (so will have received €25m overall). And we’ll see nothing from that.

Basically, if this is true, it halves the 20% entitlement for us to 10%.
 
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WeAreTheWolvesII said:
I think people on here misunderstand it but I can’t be sure so happy to be proven wrong and can’t see the reports fully at the moment.

However, my understanding is it’s he’s going to Sporting CP & Barcelona have a 50% sell-on on his next move.

Either way, the reason it’s happening now is so Barcelona have to give us less money. It’s clever from them and done us out of a few million.
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What's the crack with this deal then? Thought we were due to pay Barca something like €5m if we didn't sign him, but we have a cut of the fee they're selling him for?
 
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Fenrir_ said:
What's the crack with this deal then? Thought we were due to pay Barca something like €5m if we didn't sign him, but we have a cut of the fee they're selling him for?
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We had to pay €5m for not exercising the option. Against that, we receive 20% of his next fee (which if he had been sold for the €20m he is being valued, would have given us €4m so we would have net paid €1m).

By restructuring the deal like this, we’ll only get €2m so net paying €3m.
 
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Fenrir_ said:
What's the crack with this deal then? Thought we were due to pay Barca something like €5m if we didn't sign him, but we have a cut of the fee they're selling him for?
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Yeah we’d have paid them already.

Now they’re free to sell him to whoever, with Wolves picking up 20% of that fee.

So they sell him low (10m euros) and include the hefty sell on (50%).

Then, that’s us done completely with it. We get our 20% cut of 10m euros and that’s that.

But Barca will likely get their money in the future as they get 50% of whatever Sporting CP sell him for.
 
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Tring Wolf said:
We had to pay €5m for not exercising the option. Against that, we receive 20% of his next fee (which if he had been sold for the €20m he is being valued, would have given us €4m so we would have net paid €1m).

By restructuring the deal like this, we’ll only get €2m.
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Ah ok, bit sneaky I guess but no more sneaky than we were with Angers when we signed Ait-Nouri permanently
 
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Tring Wolf said:
Explained it better than me.

So they’re effectively valuing him at €20m now but if they sold him for that, they’d have to give us €4m as the 20% of his ‘next move’.

By selling him for €10m and retaining 50% of his economic rights, they only have to give us €2m.

Say in 2 years time, Sporting sell him for €30m, Barca will also get half that fee (so will have received €25m overall). And we’ll see nothing from that.

Basically, if this is true, it halves the 20% entitlement for us to 10%.
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Yes, I agree. But it’s not risk free. It assumes his future value will be similar or better than now. If it reduces, it may not pay out. It also defers a portion of the potential value to some unspecified and uncertain time in the future, so comes at an economic cost.

Now if our people are smart, they would have included a clause in the agreement to cover scenarios for loans, and sales of partial economic rights. In this case, such a clause would mean that the 20% share owed to us applies to 100% of the economic rights, whenever or however they are ultimately sold. So if only 50% is sold now, then 20% applies to that, and also to any future sale of the remaining 50% unsold economic rights. If Barca objected to inclusion of such a clause, then you smell a rat and don’t sign it until they do.
 
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Just a quick update on Dion. I understand that bids for a permanent transfer were made by Sunderland & Sheffield Utd and accepted by the club but Dion wanted to stay local. He contacted Blues, who wanted him back on loan, so the deal was done.
 
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Mugwump said:
So surely you attempt to sign those sort of players way earlier So you can move on to the next target. That's common sense.
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You’re totally right.
But probably after the leagues, here and abroad had finished, players might have just wanted to relax with their families, go on holidays etc. and leave business until later.
Obviously Wolves would have preferred to get signatures on paper as fast as possible but they don’t drive the bus. There’s just too many people involved……other clubs, agents, lawyers, insurance, the target players and their wives, kids all having a say.
It must be very frustrating and demand every ounce of patience to wait…..and wait…hoping…..hoping…

And maybe the target player has the bleedin’ temerity to be considering bids from other clubs and what they might offer.
 
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reanswolf said:
Well to be fair, how do you know Wolves are trying to get players then?

Genuine question, seeing you dismiss so many posts because they are merely opinion?
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I didn’t say that I knew they were.

However, they are or they aren’t, right? No ambiguity.
If it’s the former, I presume we all hope they get the players they want. If it’s the latter, then Heaven help us, especially the mods when the window closes.;)
Like everyone else on here, I know about .0043% of what goes on at Compton.
 
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Hawkguy said:
I did not, I usually do but I've been really sick the last week and pretty much just sleeping lol
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Sorry to hear that…..get well soon. You fighting again soon?

You know about DAZN and FuboTv , right? DAZN not showing PL next season.

Just this second my wife finished watching Canada Womens vs Panama……she really into soccer now.
She loves Raul, very fond of Salah’s smile and Nuno without the scraggy beard and Son and Ronaldo….haha.
But when I casually mentioned the Canadian scorer tonight, Grosso, is cute, …haha…I was reminded that she could be my granddaughter :)
 
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